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But isn't it great that people don't have to 'pay extra' for any of that any more?
Apple now meets or beats almost all major competitors in the price/product equation.
They just know the best advertising is word-of-mouth and customer service reinforces that.
There are very few other companies that have as much control over their product line allowing them to be well informed enough to provide the level of service Apple does.

"People are willing to pay a little extra for that."

What? I thought everyone had finally figured out that Macs are cheaper than simmilarly configured PCs.

People who purchase from Apple get "a little extra" for free, and a whole lot more for less.

MW = zipper, as in "Do up your zipper after you go zune."

"'People are willing to pay a little extra for that,' he noted."

I thought Macs were actually cheaper compared to crappy PCs...

Consumer Reports is so...........

I don't think they are talking about the computers, necessarily. For instance, harddrives and DVD burners are a bit more. People are willing to pay the small amount more in order to have a salesperson that actually knows about them.

Considering the out and out wrong-ness of much of what CR has printed
about Apple in the past, this is a breath of fresh air!. only marginally
a left-handed compliment instead of the usual FUD-like comments,

CR is usually so misleading when it comes to Apple.
in Vancouver (Canada) last week they did a thing for the news about extended warranties and shamelessly misled people by saying Apple is the "exception" in the industry because you will need to purchase the extended warranty because they only offer 90 days of support! that's such crap because now people will think the hardware is only covered for the 90 days but they are talking about just the telephone support. they should have said, in addition to the standard one year hardware service coverage...

I can testify to this. Wednesday, my MacBook Pro, bought as an apple refurb in July, suddenly had no audio at all.

I tried all the usual fixes, to no avail. It seemed to be a hardware issue, so I decided to contact Apple.

Tried by phone first, talked to a rep within a minute of dialing, and explained the situation. He immediately agreed to accept return of the computer for repair or replacement under warranty, but he suggested that due to the Thanksgiving Holiday, I try a local store for faster service.

So, I logged on to the web, pulled up the nearest Apple store, (South Hills Villege, Pittsburgh) and clicked on the link make an appointment at the Genius Bar. This was as 5PM on Wednesday. There was an opening at 7:40 that night. Gave my name and number and immediately had that appointment confirmed as mine.

Arrived at the store at the correct time. They were expecting me by first name. I explained the situation they ran a few tests and said it needed a new logic board. They had the part in stock, normally that is a while you wait job or within a 24 hour time frame. But, since it was 8PM by then and they were closed on Thursday for Thanksgiving, he said they would have it on Friday. GHe added, there was an outside chance that it may be delayed till Saturday, because of the expected rush of Black Friday.

I said ok call when it's ready.

Slick! Other than the disappointment that it needed a logic board and I'm without my Mac for maybe two days, the entire process was smooth, professional, and painless.

BTW, the store was packed wall to wall with teenagers, obviously the cool place to hang out.

Being long in AAPL,
that made my heart go pitter patter.

Man, it's a good time to be an Apple user!

It certainly is different than a few years ago. I remember telling everyone I cared about to follow AAPL. They all thought I was nuts. I am... but I was right.

When I bought my wireless Mighty Mouse, I guess someone was playing around on the Apple Store online on my mini, and when I ordered, I clicked checkout and noticed at the last second that there was a Mac mini Core Solo on the list. Unfortunately, the order was processed, and by the time I was able to cancel the item, it had already gone through.

I called support, and was almost immediately talking to someone about this blunder. Right away, the woman said she was, using my Apple ID info, already emailing the return info and page for me to print and put on the box when it came in. Two days later, I had it, and FedEx'd it the next day. The money was put back on my credit card and all was well.

Needless to say though, I was still embaressed. But I got over it, and then bought an iMac in October.

All in all, it turned out good (for both Apple and me). And it was-like turbowv said- smooth, professional, and painless. That is what tech support is supposed to be. Rest of the world's companies take note.

OzzysCross101, actually the person you spoke with was 'tele-sales' (1-800-my-apple), rather than tech support/ applecare (1-800-apl-care).

I have yet to find something significant to complain about.

The employees of the Apple Store at the King of Prussia Mall can be pretty arrogant and only occasionally helpful. The store is ALWAYS packed, though. No experience with any other Apple stores.

My experiences with both Apple Store sales and service have been fantastic.

I bought a refurb first generation iMac G5 which succumbed to faulty capacitors on the logic board. I understand other vendors had the same problem. Anyway, I made an appointment online and took the machine to the Apple Store the same day. It was determined that the logic board should be replaced. Soon after I got the machine home video problems came up so I again made an online appointment for service at the local Apple Store. Apple decided enough was enough and they replaced the entire machine with a second generation iMac G5 (iSight) and transferred the data.

I guess the extraordinary thing about the whole episode was that everyone was cool, patient and took care of business in a very pleasant way. No one had to put up a fight; just to-the-point problem solving. Sure getting an upgraded machine was nice, but Apple did the right thing, no questions asked for this customer. This is how it's supposed to be.

I don't mean to make a commercial, but Apple has consistently been treating me right in other sales/service aspects for years.

Not if you shop at the aptly named Banana Computer authorised reseller in the Canaries. Awfull service and 1 month wait times for a Macbook. Oh yes, and Apple will not sell direct so you are stuffed if you want a Macbook within a month. There are many other places around the world where this also happens. Apple is nice if you live in UK or USA but sucks badly in many other regions.

I've also had great repair service - in my case on my wife's iPod nano. As described by others, made the appointment online, my name was called within 5 minutes of my appoinment, I showed the "genius" the problem (it wouldn't play through a dock device) - and 5 minutes later had a replacement. The Houston Galleria store seems to do a great job.

MDN Magic Word "hour" - made money by the hour last week with Apple stock!

This what the service was like in Japan. This was before we had an Apple Store here. We had our flat panel iMac go down on Monday. I called Tuesday and she had me try some things (about 5 minutes) and diagnosed the hard drive as having gone bad and said that someone would come to my house to pick up the unit the next day. So the next day (Wednesday) a guy comes and picks it up late afternoon. The unit is delivered back to my house all fixed first thing Friday. I restore from the external backup hard drive and everything is back to normal.

One day turnaround!! And all of that shipping was free.

Gotta love it.

JOhn:

You have to expect that the established influence of the local culture will likely determine how a business is managed and what business priorities predominate. This is what we called the "native way" and we had to adapt, which generally meant having to lower our standards of expectation. You will find life much better if you can tolerate moderating your criteria for competence and expertise.

"Apple now meets or beats almost all major competitors in the price/product equation. "

Provided you believe that Apple's design and Mac OS X are worth the inflated price, Yes.

"Slick! Other than the disappointment that it needed a logic board and I'm without my Mac for maybe two days, the entire process was smooth, professional, and painless. "

problem 1: you had to take it to a store rather than them coming to your house/place of work.

Problem 2: Rather than them fixing it on the spot you're going to be without the unit for two days then presumably have to go back to the store and get it.

That Service you got looks so Good compared to other vendor's in home/office service.

"Man, it's a good time to be an Apple user!"

If you're dumb enough to believe that that's good service, it's a good time to be Apple.

"I guess the extraordinary thing about the whole episode was that everyone was cool, patient and took care of business in a very pleasant way. "

The most extraordinary thing was they they didn't come to your house/place of work, the machine failed twice, yet you still thought the level of service you received was good. How badly would they have had to screw up to bump your rating up from Good to Excellent?

Equation:

You obviously haven't done your homework or are unfamiliar with basic mathematical principles. Macs are no more expensive than most PC's with equal or similar components. Additionally, Vista is expected to cost more than 10.5 and Vista will not have nearly the same elegance, features, functionality, and security as 10.5. If you’re happy with another slapdash tweaking of anachronistic NT architecture in a bargain basement PC, I suppose that you have the right to feel smug.

OK, Equation, how many times must someone show up at your doorstep to "fix" your PC to quantify how well your computer works? I have had no, read that, No, problems with my Mac for five years.

In fact, at work we see the designated PC repairman so frequently we know him by his first name and his kid's names. Additionally, our IT personnel regularly take our system down to fix or de-bug conflicting software and remove malware. May be you need to consider how much down time you experience as a measure of PC functionality and performance, rather than how many times you need to open the door for the repairman or call the IT geek.

Put that in your equation, son.

C'mon, Equation, where's your snappy reply? PC down? When will the Geek Squad arrive to fix it?

Oh, well, I gotta go. Let me know when you’re back online with another series of less than intelligent perspectives.

Equation,

I use the word "extraordinary" because in comparison to the experience my retired, fixed-income neighbor had with malware on his Windows machine (the local computer fix-it shop couldn't disinfect it so they recommended he replace the entire machine, which he did) I had a smooth, hassle-free ride. Didn't cost me anything, and I got to visit one of my favorite stores, which is always pleasant. If it makes me a snob to have no desire to stop by the Dell kiosk in between the fuzzy slipper and imitation designer perfume kiosks at the mall, then I guess I'm a snob. This Apple thing is worth the (presumed, but false) premium.

I would again say "extraordinary" in comparison to multiple family members who repeatedly require the family Windows "expert" to get them back up and running…

Too many of these stories which too many people find acceptable. I think more and more people are figuring it out. Maybe someday you will too.

M

Equation:

Since you claim superior mathematical skills, perhaps you can provide independently calculated repair frequencies of notebook and desktop machines for the following PC manufactures:

1. Dell
2. Sony
3. HP
4. Apple

No cheating!

I guess that Equation has calculated that it is much better to purchase a more robust Apple with fewer needed repairs versus a cheaper PC and "enjoy" receiving regular door-to-door services to fix the problems with his/her PC that could have and should have been prevented to begin with.

Equation, did you figure out how to apply Chi-square analysis yourself or did someone show you?

Equation may not be able to post his/her stupidities having injured him/herself lifting Dell’s new 18-pound portable luggable notebook, the XPS M1210. Wow, an 8 kilogram plus notebook. Thanks to Kim Komando for slavishly mentioning Dell’s latest regression advancement in notebook design.

http://oldcomputers.net/ibm5140.html

And I thought that Ballmer was the only idiot running a tech company. What do you think? Do these two tech gurus share the same mother or the same father?

Dell calls this monstrosity an addition to its “Lifestyles Notebook” design line. I suppose that if you are a professional powerlifter this would be the perfect training aid. Maybe I shouldn’t be so critical. After all the XPS M1210 has received professional endorsement,

http://thetravisty.com/Saturday_Night_Live/wmv/Hans_and_Franz_featuring_Arnold_Schwarzenegger.htm

Is his full name Equation Tang?

Huh? Apple is the best place to shop?

Apple is the best place to shop if there weren't any other computer stores on the planet, but I still wouldn't go. The guys at the Dell kiosk in the mall are terrific unless you're a smug iPod lemming snob. They answered all of my questions about the Dell DJ, so I bought one. The thing that put it over the top was how open it was to various online music stores an operating systems, and that it could play WMA files natively. Who wants a file format agreed upon as an industry standard when the top-notch geniuses at Microsoft can make one? I say let one company control the file format. When one company calls the shots on a file format, everybody wins. Its a little something called simplicity. One company, one format. You don't have to listen to the industry or consumer when you've got something truly exceptional going on. Hey Apple, try a little simplicity in your designs and you might have something instead of your typical mish-mash of discombobulated hardware and software "solutions".

The guys at the Dell kiosk couldn't help me with getting it to play music purchased at the iTunes Music Store. So I guess Apple is a great place to shop until you realize the bait and switch with all that music that only plays on an iPod. Nice one. That's why so many people are going Zune. No more of Apple's proprietary player and software combination. The Zune really opens it up with flexible WiFi, WMA, the Zune Marketplace and points system. Everybody can join in, and it won't cost you an arm and a leg compared to iPod/iTunes.

Your potential. Our passion.

Damn.

And here I thought the kiddie trolls wouldn't be online until the school library opens again on Monday.

If you troll clowns don't like Apple then leave. There's gotta be something better for you to do. Is MySpace slow this weekend or something?

Anyway these last few attention-defecit, anti-Apple posts are so idiotic I don't know where to begin. If you're trying to be sarcastic or funny your sense of humor needs some polishing. And if you're serious, get your shit together, know the facts, and please learn to write.

To close: I use Apple, I'm tickled pink, and I see no need to go vent on MS boards or something stupid like that. When things just work you don't need an outlet for your frustration.

Cubert, I've found that the staff at the King of Prussia store to be very helpful, like the 4 other Apple stores that I have visited. The Mac Genius staff is really great.
You must be one of those (snotty rich) people that everyone owes you something, one that no one can please!

Hey, Tang . . .

Why didn't you buy a Zune, old troll? Haven't you been saying it's Gawd's answer to the iPod? Hmmm, I smell some nuclear hypocrisy here!

Zune Tang, it's like shooting fish in a barrel isn't it?

Hey Poon . . .

I am a proud owner of a Zune. You should be too. I picked up the DJ a few years back. In a kiosk. Didn't have WiFi at the time. Love the Zune WiFi. Love it. Thing is, that DJ is still light years ahead of an iPod.

BTW, let me know if you see a Dell DJ Ditty on eBay. I might start working out and I'll need a fashionable, lightweight, easy to clip-on MP3 player that works with simple, yet powerful software that allows me to easily organize music files and effortlessly transfer them to an MP3 player. If anyone can do it, the great minds at Dell and geniuses at Microsoft can make it a reality.

Why would I wait for Apple who are just gonna copy Dell and Microsoft anyway?

Welcome to the Social.

Social+Squirt=STD


Tang sang "The Zune really opens it up with flexible WiFi, WMA, the Zune Marketplace and points system. Everybody can join in, and it won't cost you an arm and a leg compared to iPod/iTunes."

If you are tired of his sarcasm, skip his post, they are the ones that say "Zune Tang".
If you don't get his sarcasm, skip this site, there is a lot more you won't understand.
Passer's by being confused is understandable. He is an inside joke.
Flexible WiFi? That's just funny to me.

At least he's not a serious troll, attempts humor, and doesn't preach about neo-cons.

Not that there's anything wrong with it...

Tower Tone:

Tang is Equation, Equation is Tang. Who cares? It doesn't matter. Whether each is a single individual or one in the same, they/he/she are/is a one trick pony whose 15 minutes of fame flamed out days ago. Losers, whose pathetic monotony is their only talent for living.

I think Zune Tang's sarcasm helps keep the actual Windows trolls away.

"Macs are no more expensive than most PC's with equal or similar components."

Simply not true any more. May have been true on the day of some of these machines launch. Might have even been true for all of a couple of weeks. Not any more. A Dell with the same specs as an entry level Macbook is $340 less.

"PC down? When will the Geek Squad arrive to fix it? "

Another Mac owner myth that PCs are broken all the time. I seem to hear more about broken Macs which take days to fix in this forum.

"XPS M1210. Wow, an 8 kilogram plus notebook."

The 1210 is a 4.37lb notebook. you're right that's a bit heavy compared to other people's sub 3 pound machines, or 1.2 pounds for the pocketable PCs. But 4.37 pounds is not heavy compared to the MacBricks.

Now you might be thinking about the 2010, the 20" Dell laptop, which for some reason you're comparing to a non existent Apple product with a 20" screen.

The closest "Portable" Apple equivalent is the 20" iMac, weight 10 kilos, battery pack and inverter extra.

Equation:

Where’ve you been?

I’m too tired to do the math, but I don’t think that you are entirely honest with your calculations that a comparable Dell is “$340” less expensive than a comparable Mac. Throw in an overpriced and underperforming copy of a “professional” version of Vista (compared to 10.5) and the price difference is insignificant even using your math. In plain English, you’re full of shit.

If all the data you need to determine repair frequencies of Macs is from a few threads at MDN, you are more ignorant than you imagine. Not only is your data collection incomplete your data are also spurious and invalid. You might not be smart enough to understand the basic principles of credible research, but I feel obligated to tell you that your “scientific” method isn’t scientific at all.

From Dell’s own website (please see link below) it is obvious that Dell considers XPS M2010 a “mobile” PC even at “18.30” pounds or nearly three times the weight of a MacBook Pro. The “M” class of Dell computers stands for “mobile” although it might also mean “moronic”, but you knew that, right?

http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m2010

By the way, the handle seems large enough that you could grip this brick with both hands. Also, the handle appears to have a non-slip surface, which should be useful when perspiration beads from your fingers and palms.

Heck, even Kim Komando calls the XPS M2010 a notebook albeit a mammoth notebook, and we all know that mammoths eventually became extinct. Isn’t Kim the self-proclaimed digital goddess of PCs? You know, the blond bimbo of Windows, the strumpet that trumpets PC propaganda, the tart with a heart for NT, the wench of legacy software, the moll of Microsoft?

Apple clearly advertises the iMac as a desktop and the iMac certainly doesn’t have a handle. Go the Apple website if you don’t believe me. I reckon that you can read English and comprehend English at better than a seventh grade level of education, you may correct me if I am wrong.

so i configured that "portable" XPS M2010 with similar equipped iMac 20", because let's face it, that Dell is barely more portable than the iMac. Portable doesn't necessarily mean laptop, and the iMac is basically a 20" MBP.

In Canadian dollars
Dell is $4384
iMac is $2059

matching processor speed, RAM, graphics card RAM, and similar HD capacity ( but Dell uses 2x120 5400 rpm).

Threw in the photo software from Corel that was offered to match iPhoto.
Plus XP pro instead of Media Centre edition. so no remote as it won't work with XP.

"Portable doesn't necessarily mean laptop, and the iMac is basically a 20" MBP."

How much was the iCarBattery and the iInverter you need to carry, and how much did they add to weight? did you get an iBackPack to put them in? Is it an elegant solution with those add-ons? Did you price a similar Dell compact desktop with 20" monitor, if we're talking desktop machines now?

"overpriced and underperforming copy of a “professional” version of Vista (compared to 10.5) and the price difference is insignificant even using your math"

That included the Home Premium edition of Vista already, I don't see many compelling reasons for a home user to upgrade to "Professional" or "Ultimate".

The Mac is of course even more expensive if as you point out you need to put money aside for the 10.5 OS upgrade. Lets call that another $129, making the Dell $470 less.

"I don’t think that you are entirely honest with your calculations"

Completely honest.

"In plain English, you’re full of shit."

In plain English you know what I'm saying to be true, so you're only resort, rather then to admit that you're wrong is an insult?

Why do guys who like Macs seem to be on some insane quest to prove that they're cheaper than Dells, spec for spec? They generally never are and probably never will be on any sustained basis. It always ends up with the Mac guy finally giving up with a statement like "So the PC's cheaper, But the PC can't run Mac OS X, and that's worth the difference to me". Fine, but you'd seem more credible and intelligent if you started with that proposition.

"you may correct me if I am wrong."

You are wrong, because you're saying Dell has a big heavy 20" notebook and Apple's solutions in that area, if they were to even exist, might hypothetically possibly be more elegant. You compare a 17" notebook to a 20" one, as if I should see them to be the same.

OK.

Because you don't seem to factor in any difference in screen real estate into your notebook comparisons, Next time you do Windows size/weight comparisons you will presumably regard a 14" Windows PC as the equivalent of a 17" MBP for the point of size/weight comparisons? Or is it only OK do do ridiculously stupid comparisons when it's Apple that comes out favorably? Because you will find a 14" laptop at about half the weight of a 17" MBP.

Fact is you can't have a 20" notebook from Apple at any price or weight.

Equation:

I really can't see any advantage that the Dell 20" laptop has over the 17" Mac Book Pro. They have the same screen resolution (1680 x 1050) only according to a review I just read on the Dell, the backlight is patchy making it useless for serious design work and it only has a 2.16Ghz Core Duo whereas the MBP gives excellent backlight so is perfect as a mobile design studio, has smaller pixels so a much sharper display in general and packs a 2.66 core2duo so far more power.

Also It runs All OS's unlike the OS limited Dell bathroom scale.

Give it up Equation. There are no advantages with XP and the gap widens to Apple's advantage when Vista (piglipstick) becomes the defaut option on a PC.

Equation,

You said: "That included the Home Premium edition of Vista already, I don't see many compelling reasons for a home user to upgrade to "Professional" or "Ultimate"."

Well there is a reason to upgrade to premium or ultimate if you are comparing your Windoze Pee Cee to a Mac. That reason is simple. Apple do not rip out features of OS X and then release cut down versions. OS X is just OS X. One size fits all. Microsoft rip out features in bundled windows versions especially Vista just to force you to upgrade to get the best stuff and consequently rip you off. Also it's to make their OS look more popular. They get paid money for their bundled versions then when you upgrade they get more money and inflate market share and falsely make you believe their userbase is actually bigger then it really is. But the reality is that there are loads of unused lover spec versions of Vista lying on shelves. On Mac OS X, everyone gets everything. And it's very reasonable priced. I bought a family pack of Tiger for £139 which works out at £27.80 (around $56) per licence. How much was ultimate again? So to get everything that Vista has to offer and do a proper comparison against a mac you have to include Vista Ultimate. And loads of other third party software to get even a poor alternative to the fully inclusive iLife suite.

You are just putting feature limited versions of Vista in there to fabricate a better deal.

Sorry but that will never wash with the Mac communuity.

Until you can come up with a better screen res, faster processor and full vista version and still beat us on price you may as well concede.

C ya

Have fun with your virus checker. Good luck. You'll need it.

Ooh my typing is bad. That should have been "lower spec" not "lover spec" and "reasonably" instead of "reasonable".

I'll check before posting next time.

"Microsoft rip out features in bundled windows versions especially Vista just to force you to upgrade to get the best stuff and consequently rip you off."

Just what are these "Best" features you think a home user needs? C'mon, list out a few compelling ones.

"They have the same screen resolution (1680 x 1050) "

I've yet to find someone who prefers a 17" screen and "Small" pixels to a 20" screen, other than for portability reasons, which is your choice. And there are many 17" PCs available with superior resolutions (read smaller pixels) to the Mac, if you're looking for a 17" system.

One has Doggy X1600 graphics, the other has the X1800 (You guess which). Of course if it's a 17" unit you're looking for, you can get much faster graphics again.

One has fast 7200RPM Mirrored or striped RAID hard drives, for twice the speed and capacity, the other doesn't (you guess which).

2.33 GHZ is the top processor on the Dell, which is the same as the processor on the Apple. You seem to be confused about Apple's products, It's the desktops that have a 2.66 Core 2 option.

Anyway, put aside the debate of if you even WANT a 20" laptop, because if you don't, don't buy one. if you want a 17" laptop, compare it to other 17" laptops on the market.

It seems you're comparing a product which doesn't exist to one which does exist, and claiming that the nonexistent Apple product would be better if only it existed.

What next, Do you want to debate how an iPhone's the best phone ever?

"better screen res, faster processor and full vista version and still beat us on price you may as well concede."

What everything has to be better in every aspect, not just the price, how is that a fair comparison? That would exclude a lot of laptops every bit Apple's equal, but cheaper.

You're about 1 step away from saying that that's true, but that the PC can't run Mac OS X, just take the step. get it over with.

"Have fun with your virus checker. Good luck. You'll need it."

You've got it wrong, it's the people without the virus checkers who need the luck. Have fun with all those new Mac exploits without one. even MDN had to finally admit that Mac Malware exists.

"Sorry but that will never wash with the Mac communuity."

Can you explain OS X server to me?

"There are no advantages with XP and the gap widens to Apple's advantage when Vista (piglipstick) becomes the defaut option on a PC."

Most people expect the opposite. Today very few people can be bothered with Mac OS X, Over a million people who brought Intel Macs run boot camp on them. That, in case you can't work it out means that the entire increase in Mac sales since the Intel launch and then some, went to people who want to run Windows on their Macs. after Vista launches and Apple starts preloading it, expect interest in Mac OS X to slide further.

"Portable doesn't necessarily mean laptop, and the iMac is basically a 20" MBP."

It’s obvious that all desktops are portable using the most generalized definition that it can be carried by a single human being, dimwit. However, Dell conspicuously and proudly classifies the XPS M2010 a notebook whereas Apple clearly lists the iMac as a desktop. Truly, you are a getting more and more stupid by the minute. Additionally, according to Dell, it sells only notebook and desktop machines; and nowhere on its website does Dell claim that it sells laptops. Ergo, the XPS M2010 is a notebook by Dell’s own criteria. So quit obfuscating.

“That included the Home Premium edition of Vista already, I don't see many compelling reasons for a home user to upgrade to "Professional" or "Ultimate".”

It is satisfying to read that even you agree that Microsoft’s premier flagship OS is lacking the necessary features and innovative functions that would make it a desirable product. So, after nearly six years of effort, thousands of hours, and millions of dollars Microsoft has developed a dud. How does it feel knowing that 10.5 is just around the corner and you will probably have to wait another 5 years for Microsoft’s next attempt to maintain relevance?

“In plain English you know what I'm saying to be true, so you're only resort, rather then to admit that you're wrong is an insult?”

I resort to insults hopefully to embarrass and shame you because you are either a pathetic liar or a complete moron. In either case, you need adult supervision. Please refer to the first comment if you disagree.

Why do guys who like Macs seem to be on some insane quest to prove that they're cheaper than Dells, spec for spec? They generally never are and probably never will be on any sustained basis.

I never said that Macs were less expensive that Dells. I clearly said that the price differences between comparable Macs and PCs are insignificant. Even if Macs were $340 more expensive than a comparable than a similar PC (as you stated), this amount amortized over a 5-year span is less than 19 cents per day. If 19 cents is a serious amount of money to you, you really need to find better employment. Have you considered higher education as a means to more economic freedom or are you the most parsimonious person that ever lived?

</b>You are wrong, because you're saying Dell has a big heavy 20" notebook and Apple's solutions in that area, if they were to even exist, might hypothetically possibly be more elegant. You compare a 17" notebook to a 20" one, as if I should see them to be the same.</b>

Firstly, you seem to ignore the point of whether there is a viable market for Dell’s 20-inch 18.30-pound notebook, that is, if you can say 18.30-pound notebook in the same sentence without laughing. I also think it’s a nice touch that Dell published this spec to two significant digits.

Secondly, Dell manufactures two 17-inch notebooks E1705 and XPS M1710 at 7.65 and 8.71 pounds, respectively. Apple’s 17-inch MacBook Pro lists at 6.8 pounds or 89% and 78% the weight of Dell’s two premier notebook models. Since you are a self-described expert in comparable features of Macs and PCs you should be able to describe in detail the performance enhancements of the Dell models achieved this with increased weight.

Thirdly, with a 2-inch (13%) increase in monitor size the MacBook Pro the weight increases by 17% or 0.6 pounds per inch. With a 3-inch (18%) increase in monitor size the weight of the Dell increases a whopping 210% or 3.2 pounds per inch and this is using the heavier 17-inch minibrick XPS M1710 as the standard. This means that for every inch of increase in monitor size the weight of the Dell notebook increases at a rate 5-times that of Apple. Maybe the XPS 2010 will result in a new medical diagnosis called Repetitive Lugging Syndrome. I hope that you have decent medical insurance.

Make that four significant digits. I apologize. The thought of a 8.3-kilogram notebook is distracting to me.

First let me apologize for getting back on topic. I too have gone through online configuration of similar Apple and Dell offerings. Apple was less, and even if it was more, I simply don't want a Dell for way too many reasons to mention. My point is Apple's online experience is terrific. In the brick and mortar world it's kind of like the nicely organized and friendly atmosphere of Apple retail stores vs. those dumpy Dell kiosks. Dell had too many screens and an overall ugly layout, like their computers. If they don't have pride in product and presentation, why should I buy from them? This stuff affects satisfaction which is what the article is about.

I don't care if Dell has more options on their site. The "pain-in-the-ass" metaphor Dell & Microsoft have come up in their products shines through on Dell's web page. I applaud their consistency. Apple's is still way better.

Why narrowly define "best place to shop" as a store where something costs less? I have been uniformly and thoroughly satisfied with my Apple experience. It all has been worth the money. I work with a Windows craptop 8 hours a day after using Macs in the workplace for years. It isn't satisfying.

Equation is right, Apple has no notebook comparable to the XPS M2010. Dell has the distinction of promoting a "notebook" ( 18.3-pound ) of comparable weight as a desktop (20-inch iMac, 22 pounds). I suppose that describing the XPS M2010 a "notebook" makes it less embarrassing to carry than calling it a desktop. However, I don't think that calling the XPS M2010 a notebook will make it any more easy to carry.

Equation:

The 20-inch iMac base price is $1,499 the 20-inch XPS M2010 is base priced at $2,999. I guess the extra $1,500 includes 40-inch wheels and reflective orange triangles or are these optional upgrades? Seriously, what do you get for the extra $1,500? I need to know because this appears to be one glaring flaw in your assertion that Macs are more expensive than "comparable" PCs.

"M2010 a notebook whereas Apple clearly lists the iMac as a desktop. Truly, you are a getting more and more stupid by the minute"

Clearly one is completely self contained and can be used in absence of an AC outlet, and is designed to be folded into an easily transported (if large and heavy) package. I think I could get on a plane with the Dell. Good luck doing that with your iMac, keyboard, car battery and inverter without coming up with another case to put it all into. Lets see if an Air Marshall plugs you with a few rounds of 357 Sig when you pull it out and start trying to connect it all up.

"satisfying to read that even you agree that Microsoft’s premier flagship OS is lacking the necessary features and innovative functions that would make it a desirable product."

Vista is of course desirable, What is not clear is why a home user needs pay for a few extra features like connecting to an NT server domain or running IIS.

"How does it feel knowing that 10.5 is just around the corner and you will probably have to wait another 5 years for Microsoft’s next attempt to maintain relevance?"

Simple, even at version 10.4 Mac OS X is not relevant except a a counterpoint to Microsoft's dominance. With 10.5 it still won't be any more relevant. Inf anything Vista will make it less relevant. Windows XP and Vista will continue to be the most relevant operating systems in the world today.

"“In plain English you know what I'm saying to be true, so you're only resort, rather then to admit that you're wrong is an insult?”

I resort to insults hopefully to embarrass and shame you because you are either a pathetic liar or a complete moron. "

But not because I'm wrong. I think you made my point for me.

"I never said that Macs were less expensive that Dells."

As I said earlier, that's always where we end up. Game Over. Thanks for playing.

"performance enhancements of the Dell models achieved this with increased weight."

Dell makes more than 2 17" models, but here we go:

With the XPS radically faster graphics, and much higher LCD resolution, more memory, the same or better in every measure of performance or functionality.

With the Inspiron you can have radically faster graphics, and much higher LCD resolution and a much lower price.

"this amount amortized over a 5-year span is less than 19 cents per day"

Or put back together it's $340 you didn't have to spend. And do you really think you'll be happy with today's Mac in 5 years. Gone are the days of Apple not changing hardware design or performance significantly for 5 years.

"increases a whopping 210% or 3.2 pounds per inch "

Sensibly this should be non-linear as the size of the laptop increases as at least the square of the screen dimensional increase. The point remains. There are no 4.5" mac notebooks which weigh just over a pound. No 11" ones at 2.76 pounds. no 13" ones at 3.7 pounds, no 15.4" ones at 5.3 pounds. No Macs thinner than 1" but plenty of PCs that beat that. The 17" Macbook is one of the few Macs which you could make that weight comparison and come out ahead.

"Maybe the XPS 2010 will result in a new medical diagnosis called Repetitive Lugging Syndrome. "

So don't buy it, The point is you can't have a 20" notebook from Apple at any price or weight.

Back in the day of Compaq luggables, Women carried 28 pound computers. Can't carry a 18lb box?When did computer users become such girly men?