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go creative! iWant to see more competition and iPods getting cheaper - and better. competition drives innovation

I agree with mac_user. Frankly I'm sick of this us-against-them mentality. Competition is good for everyone.

"Competition drives innovation" Are you dreaming??

You're listening to the Marketing department rather than the business department my friend.

All competition does is lower the standards of quality, corporate responsibility and innovation in a segment where the consumer is unaware of the variables that make a product a truly innovative and quality product. When the consumer cannot see differences, price becomes the battleground and EVERYONE knows how that plays out. (Hey Apple, I can get a $500 eMachine PC, so why would I buy your eMac for $700!?)

Innovation ONLY happens when you're struggling to make it to market first so you can set the parameters on which your product is judged. Hell, Apple in the late 80's ruled because they were so innovative. When the cheap PC's came out, they weren't "innovative", they were cheap, and the consumer didn't know why they should by one over the other anymore because in their mind, a computer was a computer right? The concept of a computer became over simplified and price became the battleground.

I could go on forever about innovation being driven by competition. All I can say is you've been brainwashed by the marketing types who want you to be a clueless consumer of goods. (Which by being a mac user, I assume, you should know that what you see is not always what you get)

</endRANT>

Okay, so Apple is the Coke of the digital audio player market. I guess that makes them the Sierra Mist of the desktop market.

Funny how with the iPod, market share is suddenly everything. When the G3's came out, suddenly speed was everything. And when the iMac came out, suddenly fruity colors were everything.

re: Opus

Competition isn't always based on price. It is also based on features. Given two products at the same price, do you pick with eeny-meany-miny-moe, or do you see which product has the better--or more innovative--features? I hope the latter.

If every Apple competitor stopped trying to sell music players tomorrow, do you think Apple would keep trying just as hard to innovate and lower prices? Why? So they can make less profit in a market they own?

Sometimes though I still feel like people take things a bit too far. Just because a company is realeasing something they consider an "iPod killer' and it includes video does not mean that video is a bad thing to include in a portable device.

Personally, I would absolutely love the ability to watch a DVD in a handheld device the size of an iPod but with a larger screen! Yea, the screen would be tiny in comparison to a laptop like a Powerbook, but I only have a Powerbook 17, and we all know those don't fit well on plane tray tables. And as much as I love Apple, I can't afford to buy a 12" only to use on a plane...

So portable video would be a very very neat idea.

As for the "Apple is the best!", just because it is easy to use doesn't make it perfect. The battery life is still comparably short to the competition, you can't listen to AM/FM radio, etc. Apple is good at designing programs that stick to their primary function without bloating it with extra features, but wouldn't a cool iPod be one that had all these extra features? The could have the 20GB, the 40 GB, maybe eventually the 60GB, and then a "plus" version that includes radio capability, maybe a built-in AM/FM transmitter or connection to 802.11b/g so you can AirTunes straight from the iPod, or actually a respectable battery time...

I hope I don't come across as all hate. I love my iPod and do personally think it is better than most other options. I just don't think it's right to laugh at the competition when I think they are often pretty damn good alternatives just because they're not iPods.

RE: Russell "...and we all know those don't fit well on plane tray tables."

Hmm, an 12-inch iBook could fit the ticket... Great to watch a movie and edit some home tapes too!

There are many poratble DVD players out there, why do we need a HD based one? Oh, 'cause we can... well with DRM noise from the movie industry do you really think they'll let us rip a copy of "the Matrix" without compromise? The music industry is anal enough without us knockin' on Hollywood's (back)door. All IMHO, of course.

Jb

Just took a plane trip where I watched DVD's on my 12-inch iBook. I had plenty of battery life, but the time allowed to use electronic devices wasn't long enough to watch the whole movie. Fun though.

you don't have to buy a 12" Powerbook, you could get a pre-owned PB G3 with a DVD for around 500 bucks (compared to a $200 device with a 8x6 screen) or an ibook for less than 1K

what the hell are mac and ipod user taking. I want Apple to continue to DOMINATE this market! Just like Sony did with the walkman. Do you know how many walkmen Sony sold? over 150,000,000!!! That's how many iPods Apple should sell.

I agree with those who believe that there is a lot that can still be done to the iPod to make it better. A line in/Stereo Mike in, a Longer battery life and radio capability are things that I would love to see in the near future. There is a quite but large movement of people who are modifying PDA to do just this. with amazing results. It is called, PD audio CF and it blows the socks off anything you have ever listen to.
[url=http://www.core-sound.com/pdaudio-cf.html]http://www.core-sound.com/pdaudio-cf.html[/url]
Apple started in a garage and took on IBM who was the mega giant at the time. History repeats itself everyday.

If everyone wanted to watch palm size vide0s then everyone would be watching pocketsized Tvs- of yesteryear. Bottomline- to small. The video output on a player makes more sense.


paul

I'd like to preface this comment by saying that my first mac was the original macintosh. And I've been a fan of the company ever since. I've never owned a windows pc. I even stuck up for apple through the dark days. I love that the mac platform is so strong now, Apple is due for it. I am also not a troll. I check this website two three times a day, because I love apple, and I love to soak in all that is being said.

That being said. I find the snide comments injected through the article a bit rude, distasteful, and unnecessary. The fact is, yes Apple has a great product with the iPod and iTMS, but competition to the iPod is not only healthy, but good. Look at the amazing products like the 4G iPod and Airport Express that have come from apple, knowing that they have to continue innovating or they'll lose their lead. This article was just featuring another route to go, because the iPod doesn't fit everyones needs. There's no reason to berade and belittle the author, and creative, just because it's something different than apples solution.

Additionally, this article wasn't attacking the iPod. It wasn't a Paul Thurott flameware piece that is written solely to drive traffic to his website, knowing full and well that we (collectively as a community) would be upset and outraged. It's just a nice, pedestrian article outlining the evolution of a company that has been in the digital music business far longer than apple.

I just wanted to make this comment, because i understand when people say they are very intimidated and annoyed by the fervor that can rise from the apple camp. I think unwarranted attacks like this make us all look very bratty.

I know this is going to stir some people, so i'm happily posting my email address so you can tell me to goto hell. I don't want to be one of those anonymous douches that post things (that they know will obviously upset people) and not have to balls to own up to their words. Thanks, that's all i wanted to say.

And let me reiterate, I'm a mac person. Typing this on a brand new 15" powerbook connected to an Airport Express (which has to be one of the coolest things I've ever bought). Also, i have an iPod mini plugged in and charging to it. Man apple has a lot of my money.

"I think unwarranted attacks like this make us all look very bratty."

I am bratty, and proud to be. Oh, and I do deserve to be spanked.

For the record, I would like to say that my 17" Powerbook fits perfectly on the fold down tray on every flight I have used it on so far - I have not "infringed" into the area of my neighbouring passengers at all. This includes: Continental, American Airlines, United and Canadian Airlines (all coach/hospitality sections).

Having purchased a portable Casio TV in the mid eighties (with a 2.5" screen), I can say that watching video content on it for long periods of time is very painful. Although it was pretty helpful during the Blackout last summer!

my 2¢

Yea, good luck CReative - at least they're trying to forge their own path but I think it's more like COKE versus Dr. PEPPER and we know who COKE is.

I guess REAL is Squirt.

Well I think the iPod is perfect the way it is, if u want to listen to the radio buy something esle. I hate listening to the damn radio, they play the same thing over and over. I got the iPod becuz i want my music when I want it, not when someone esle decides it should be played. Key word being "I". and u people that want a portable player the size of the iPod have to be kidding urselfs. wat u gonna buy a player that cost $399 and then pay what$12.99 a pop for each movie and watch it on a 5" inch screen!! yea fucking right!! that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I rather watch that on something I wouldn't go blind watching (ex, my 14" iBook or on my 19", 32" or 42" tvs @ home). It would never make sense to watch anymovie on a screen that size, anybody wishing that from apple should continue dreaming!

"I am bratty, and proud to be. Oh, and I do deserve to be spanked."

Then go read this Ars Technica article on the PowerPC chip:

http://arstechnica.com/cpu/004/ppc-1/ppc-1-1.html

Read the third paragraph in the Introduction section and see what it's like to have an author making snide comments in what is supposedly a analytical piece of writing. And tell me why MDN's spiteful editorial comments are any better.

I give credit to Creative for making the first hard-drive based portable MP3 player (I think it was called the Jukebox; it looked like a Discman). Having said that, they are trying to compete with Apple by offering features that only Microsoft would want: WMA and WMV playback. These file formats are not the way to compete with Apple.

I think that more people would consider purchasing a Creative player instead of an iPod if it offered AAC playback. iTunes has made this format popular for Mac and PCs so why are manufacturers not supporting it? Creative should support the AAC format if it wants to be Pepsi to Apple's Coke.

I am glad we still have a company (Apple) that is willing to fight M$ that has locked in many companies.

I am glad that there are still a few companies that are willing to fight a company/monopoly that tries to lock in their users in the music area (Apple).

Adding video to one of it's audio players? Wouldn't that change the audio player into something else that, frankly, not a lot of people really want?

Now, yes; in the future, I'm not so sure. A youngster's appetite for music goes beyond music, and the wise music industry (when they wise up, I mean) will eventually bundle video with the CDs to sate the appetites of those who, say, need to peer deep into Avril Lavigne's velvetbutton. It's a cinch. It'll go into their contracts -- We'll give you a gazillion for so many albums, so many videos, so many live performances, shows, commercials....

That's one way of adding value at the retail level. Of course, you have the option of buying nothing more than lossy audio tracks. But rational buyers are not the prime music market; the younger generation undergoing a hormone riot is. They'll go to the airport to meet their stars, break into hysterics when he, she or they walk by.... You remember the Beatles, don't you?

Consumers are hardly rational. Let's face it, you could live without an iPod easily; take advantage of free music in the radio and telly; devote time specifically for listening to your eardrum-bashing hi-fi set; even decide to sing a few songs in your mind while you jog. But the promise of the iPod is half-fulfilled by having it, as opposed to only using it. You just gotta have one. And that's where Apple gotcha!

Do I need a G5? Absolutely not. Do I feel deprived when I use my G4/OS 9 computer? Definitely not. Upgrade ... you'll love it! they say. But it's a bit like smoking or chocolate. If you've never tried them then you're not really missing much. The trick is to get your mind thinking you need it. You gotta have 3,000 songs in your pocket; the ability to stitch videos together and burn dvds, etc., etc. A company that can do that has gotcha! (Apple's gotme.)

My point is, there'll come a time when a good chunk of the market for music will demand portable video devices. The wiser minds in the music industry (when they wise-up, I mean) will move to make visual content an important part of their business. They'd be stupid not to. No one will force you to buy it just as no one is forcing you to get an iPod. But sometime, somewhere, somebody else will just die if they don't have the ability to, say, peer deeply into the next Avril Lavigne's velvetbutton.

why do all the tech analysts assume that wma and all the windows media based music stores are the "standard" for everything and that apple's standard is more limiting and is used by less people?

i think i can answer that myself. everyone assumes that anything with the microsoft badge on it is the industry standard. and it pisses the crap out of me.

seriously why would you want another music store? itunes is the easiest to use and it works on windows and it works with the best mp3 player. what more do you want? music is music no matter what store you get it from.

you can buy a portable radio for $5 - $10. who needs it? you can buy a portable DVD player for $150 with a 5" screen or a larger screen for only a little more. and you can use your existing dvd collection and not have to buy or rip any movies and use up a lot of space. portable media centers are bound to fail. they are just impractical at this point.

im certain that if apple licensed it's fairplay drm all the music stores would switch to it. who wants to be compatible with a creative player when you can be compatible with an ipod?

every aspect of windows media blows. why do we need it? the answer is that we don't. we have enough standards screw the microsoft standards.

in fact screw microsoft. im sick of installing drivers for every little thing. i'm sick of having to install 30 critical updates whenever reinstall my operating system. i'm sick of the windows update site being so slow. i'm sick of product activation. i'm sick of paying $300 for windows. i'm sick of "home" and "professional."

AHHHH!

On the "Us-vs-them" mentality:

When the iPod/iTunes competition begins offering alternatives that work with the Mac, then and only then will I cheer on the spirit of competition. As of now, too many of these players and stores work only with Windows.

So you're damn right it's "us-vs-them".

iTunes 4 for Mac OS X: Compatible Players:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=93548

As for these devices working with iTunes music store, that's up to Apple right now, isn't it?

I don't know about radio in the USA, but here in Spain is a relatively diverse content thing for you to explore, and it is a shame that the iPod doesn't do radio when it has a very good interface for dialling stations analog radio-style.

We ought to distinguish what's better for Apple as a company and what's better for us as consumers. iTMS's user experience is probably the best out there, but we should remember that, for a start, it isn't even available worldwide, so Apple's Music Shop-only means no shop at all for many iPod users, users that would like to be able to use alternatives. Frankly, control is good for Apple, but I'd resent a Sony Walkman cassette player that only played CBS music tapes, wouldn't you too?

(The most successful Internet music "shops" are the p2p ones, anyway, so...)

VideoPods are not stupid things at all: in fact, it is expected that this Christmas 17 million units of DivX-compatible devices will be sold worldwide, many of them able to not only play but record content via AV inputs. The strange thing for me is that none of them seem to incorporate a mobile phone-type camera lens, a mini HDCam being so obvious a thing. If I'd have to bet, I'd bet that next year we will see iPod-type hard discs-based mobile phones. The moment someone manages to produce a fuel cell battery-driven HD AV mobile phone, the game is over for the iPod (the device) as it is now. The only question will be if the phone builders will allow DivX inside (the Mp3 of the video world) and some PDA-like freedom for users or if they'll try to control all angles of it.

Yes, I'm not interested in a mobile phone that does music, images, email, etc., etc. I'm not falling for the gotcha! there. But I must admit that my brother's Treo does provide him with useful functions, and has some sex appeal. The trick is to tie it in seamlessly with the Mac, get it down in size, give it more battery time....

I can see the time when the overhead of all the functionality gets down to a level where a PDA/phone/music jukebox will become compelling, though not quite yet. Steering the future of iPod-like devices is a job fraught with danger, and companies like SONY can afford to fail multiple times before they copy the innovator who gets it right (even if the latter gets there by luck). In the meantime, the iPod could fall behind for a number of times if its concept stays static.

There may not be a big enough market for an Apple PDA or phone, but there could be one for iPod-derived devices, especially if Apple is able to find the right mix of function and software.

Juanxer: He oido que España es como un mercado olvidado para Apple, no?

I would be more interested in the iPod interface built into clothes, cars, airoplane seats, etc. than an iPod with a colour screen. Portable video does not have compelling content yet, unless it is in a video phone. As for films, I would not want to watch them like that.

Sí, la verdad es que uno no sabe para qué existe Apple España

I read a very interesting blog entry suggesting an entirely different angle to Apple's intentions for iTMS and the iPod, plus some considerations about the logic behind featuritis in digital devices. I'd rather everyone to read it, as it puts things in an entirely different perspective:

http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/000313.html

plus

http://www.drunkenblog.com/drunkenblog-archives/000314.html

That blog entry is a bit long, and the meaty parts start in the middle or so. Persistence pays off

About VideoPods: my ideal format would be sort of portable DVD-sized boxes. About content, I'd believe manufacturers are banking on piracy at that (just as they do music-wise, hah!), but I think the natural way of generating content that is desirable and fun is adding camera lenses to the things (in which case AV phone-sized screens would suffice) and turning them into playful HD videocameras, plus Japanese cute-kinda tricks and functions (they excel at producing that sort of devices and services).

Uh oh, suddenly things start getting interesting...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/09/nokia_loudeye/

Great links, THANKS!