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fewkin frogs! ask the French public what they want, you jerkoff officious sneering Gallictards

Ah, the French. I think that they are their own worst enemy.

en

ask the French public what they wan" im sure they would want it unocked, most of us do lol

The French ! Ha.

Ah, socialism!

Tell me if I'm missing something on this because I'm confused. After all the bitching about the iPhone being locked, you have a country saying no to locking and now there's bitching about unlocking?

For once I agree with the French.

That's one French law I happen to agree with. From what I understand, mobile phones are typically not subsidized in Europe like they are here in the US, so there's no reason to require lengthy contracts. That's the trade-off we make here- we get phones for low prices, but we sign years-long contracts with the providers.
Makes me wonder if the iPhone is being subsidized at all. If it's not, that's another reason to hold off- the only benefit to signing a lengthy contract is to the service provider. The consumer doesn't benefit if there's no discount on the hardware.

I'll wait until the iPhone allows 3rd party apps and is available on sevice providers other than AT&T;. The "cool" factor of the iPhone isn't worth the price to me, especially since I'd lose some capabilities I have on my current phone. And the iPod side of the iPhone doesn't impress me- 8GB just isn't enough space. I'm currently using about 40gb on my 5th gen iPod, and I sure don't see an iPhone replacing it.

@shive105

Not sure what you mean by Europe, but here in the UK, mobiles are heavily subsidized. I've yet to pay for a phone in the 3+ years I've been here (new phone each year, presently a recent razr). Add to that the 12 months free (400 minutes / month) contract, and I've not paid a cent. I'd consider that subsidized, no?

Tough call for the French. Do they choose freedom or style? They are going to have to smoke a few cigarettes to figure out their preferences on this one.

I see the Nazi's are out in force today.

I wonder how many of the people who disparage France and the French have ever spent time in France or know much of anything about it.

They DARED disagree with the US President? Rotten bastards. Cowards. They should do everything we tell them to do!

Knowing what we all know today, they look pretty smart.

Back on topic...
I'd say we probably ALL would like to get our grubby mitts on an iPhone without being forced to sign a contract with AT&T;. We want iPhones without AT&T;.

The entire US model for cell phone providers is downright un-American. Freedom of choice is what we ALL want! Isn't it in the Constitution? (I exercized MY freedom of choice by purchasing an unlocked phone.) Isn't that one of the reasons that we all CHOSE Macs?

Why are all the Yanks here criticizing the French? Wherever you are, if you have a problem with the law, contact your appropriate elected officials.

Last I checked, France was a democracy. Weren't there headlines earlier this year that they had elected a new President, and while he was visiting the US he made a stop in Kennebunkport?

I completely agree with the French law. Its purpose is obviously to protect consumers from predatory contracts such as those made by Apple with AT&T;, O2 and T-Mobile (US, UK, Germany). As most here know, Apple is getting anywhere between $350 (from existing AT&T;customers who buy an iPhone) to $550 (new customers) for each iPhone sold in the US. That is after cost of manufacturing and distribution (about $250). Due to this agreement, we can only get this phone with one choice of carrier, and we must stay with it for at least two years.

In France, you are FREE (as in: freedom fries...) to choose ANY carrier with ANY phone (they're all GSM, so no technological barriers here). That way, carriers compete on (surprise) quality of service and/or pricing. The law doesn't allow two-year contract requirement.

The only way France will see the iPhone on their market would be if Apple were to sell it unlocked (legitimately) for about 600 euros (US$850). There might be some EU laws that would prohibit this kind of differential pricing for different market segments in EU. I wonder if Apple could get off by claiming that the price in UK and Germany were actually higher, but portion of it was shared between the consumer and the carrier.

As an AAPL stockholder, I fully support Apple's exorbitant highway robbery-style kickbacks they get from AT&T;(and soon from O2 and T-Mobile). If they can squeeze them, go ahead; it keeps the stock moving North. As a consumer (in the US), though, I'm not sure I would be willing to pay $800 (which is gross revenue Apple gets for every iPhone sold to a switcher) for any kind of phone, even if it IS the iPhone. Obviously, free market is doing what it does best, which is why people are snapping up the iPhone, and why Apple is getting what it wants.

This is the price you pay when there is no competition and you have only one choice. France made sure their consumers have choices.

Not just in the UK but in most European countries mobiles are heavily subsidized.

The new French President, Nicholas Sarkozy, is good guy and it is now okay to refer to your 'patriot fries' once again as 'french fries'. What a difference an election makes. France is our friend and ally again. Viva le France!

Sorry about the iPhone thing mon ami.

@dan, etc...

this is not a french issue, no country in the EU allows what Apple did with AT&T;, and the consumers are the winners here.

most european countries have even more strict laws than France.

in Belgium, finland, switzerland a carrier can't have exclusivity at all.

Apple should be realistic, and drop their outrageous, and illegal demands.

We give you: French fries, French kisses, French safes, frog marching, frog legs. And now French law, guilty until proven innocent. All crap. Wine's good tho'.

@ Mr. Reeee:

Q: What is France's favorite tactic in battle?

A: Surrender

who cares --- lets go India, China then we are talking

Yo Tommy Boy:

The French, after Napoleon, of course, don't fight unless it's necessary. When faced with overwhelming force, like the German Blitzkrieg tactics of 1940, probably opted for survival over certain suicide. They ran a heck of a guerilla war, though!

OUR Pocket Napoleon thinks different. As long as someone else does the fighting, he's all for it. Funny how many Vietnam era draft dodgers are such hawks when everyone else's blood and kin are in the line of fire.

BTW, my cousin just got back from our glorious conquest.

I am French.

Mobiles are subsidized here too.

But resellers have to publish the price without sudsides, and have to offer the possibility to sell the mobile only.

--> I usually agree on things french (us ) do bad, but for once, i think ou way is more fair for customers.

--> When apple will sell cars, what will you do if apple ask you to buy gas at only one brand ? It should work independently

Anyway, it's a REALLY interesting internaional thread of point of wiews :p

Kisses to all.

A rose by any other name...
Subsidized, amortized, one-time-charge... they all amount to the same thing ... pay me now or pay me later.

I believe the issue at hand in France is the requirement to have no long term contracts. Mobile carriers have lots of creativity in providing incentives.

You want the lower monthly rate? OK, sign here for 2 years. Want it lower, sign here for 3 years.
What, no contract? no problem, that'll be higher monthly 'pay as you go' option.

The iPone ( Le iPhone ?) is ideally suited in that there is a one time charge (the purchase).

The only challenge is to meet the local legal requirements, and also have Orange and Apple agree on how to share the 'pay as you go' option.

@Tommy Boy
@ Mr. Reeee:

Q: What is France's favorite tactic in battle?

A: Surrender

---
Obviously, if the French had not been there for America, you would not have had your revolution... Think about it, Americans... You know you love everything French... You're just annoyed by that simple fact... We make better fashion than you do...

@Spark,

"Viva le France! " - all too typical American ignorance. How about "long leave persident Bush!"?

I pick civilization over military might any day.

It is "Vive la France!"

Gotta love the French!  MMMMMM, that smell....


MDNWord:  Using...

As in using deoderant is wrong...

@Jacques
I thought it might be "la" but when I Google the phrase I found a zillion items spelled it "le". I admit my ignorance of French grammar, but apparently I am in good company. I appreciate the correction, however, it is impolite to insult ('typical American ignorance') when the sentiment is in your favor.

@Spark,

I do not know about "good" company. If it had been just you, it would not have been typical, would it?

Anyway, I do not know why you should feel insulted. After all, you have a lot more nuclear (nucular?) arms than we do.

Not just France. But many countries in Europe are against phonemakers forcing them to use certain service provider. I hope Apple will let people choose their desired service provider.

I can't imagine a situation where automaker would force me to buy gas only from certain brand of gas stations.

I think I would take sides with the French on this law. It's too bad a similary law doesn't exist in the states that would require handset makers to make their product available to all carriers. On the otherhand such regs might hamper innovation to some extent. Balance is always the key when dealing with the market place.

Q: What are the United States' favorite tactics in battle?

A: My Lai, Hiroshima, Blackwater

Some of us are missing a key point. If you want the iPhone unlocked I hope you are prepared to negotiate your own cheap unlimited data deal and also beg your carrier to give you visual voicemail. I'm sure there will be more colaboration with AT&T;and Apple for future iPhone functions.
Good luck getting that on your unlocked iPhone.

I agree with da Frogs. There's a first time for everything.

Re: What are the United States' favorite tactics in battle?

Mai Lai: They Deserved it.
Hiroshima: Fuckin' A they deserved worse!
Blackwater: Who Cares? Really. Who gives a shit?



Q: Why are there problems with Euro-Disney?
A: Everytime they shoot off fireworks, the French give up.

@Tommy Boy & @Hot Carl

Q: What is USA's favorite tactic in battle?
A: Teaming-Up. Alone, they lose.

Let's check some historic facts, shall we?

Teaming-up with other countries : WWI, WWII, Golf War. Congrats, you win! :D

Alone : Corea, Vietnam, Irak. Too bad, you lose :'(

But hey, you did win one war alone! The American civil war! :D Errr... but still, half of the Americans lose it ... :p

I have a WWII French rifle for sale.
Perfect shape - never fired!

"I wonder how many of the people who disparage France and the French have ever spent time in France or know much of anything about it."

The whole world hates the French, it's not just an American thing.

"The French, after Napoleon, of course, don't fight unless it's necessary."

Or even when it is necessary.

"I pick civilization over military might any day."

Throughout history no civilization that lacked military might has ever lasted. You can't have one without the other.

Q: Why do French tanks have one forward gear and five reverse ones?

A: Occasionally the enemy might attack from behind.

Sorry about the idiot attitudes from my fellow Americans towards the French. Of course, in every country I've been in, there are other countries the native population likes to make fun of (from French people I'd hear Belgian & Swiss jokes, not to mention the Pied-Noirs commentary from time to time). Still, the nasty and childish commentary I'm seeing here is shameful, and they should grow up, or get a life.

For myself, I love France (great cities and countryside), French culture and like nearly all the French people I've met. They have a few substantially different attitudes than Americans, but I don't consider that a problem at all. It makes life more interesting.

Magic word: Wrong, as in wrong attitude on the part of too many here.

Have a nice life, Jacques. You're no better than these twerps bashing France.

I must insist on that paradoxical situation : USA are supposed ( and they are most of time...) to be the country of opportunities. But it's seem that iPhone have no more opportunity than having only AT&T;as carrier...

I insist on that reality : In many European countries, the law prohibite forced "joint sales" (between carrier and hardware) . You always have there the right to make choice between a non-subsidized unlocked cellphone or a subsidized SIMcard locked phone. Having there this kind of choice, but not having it in U.S. is a little bit ironic...

Even in U.K. I'm not sure if the law there have not a provision about this right of choice for consumer between subdisized cellphone and non-subsidized ones.

Remember, when the governement have no laws, the corporations have their owns. And to libertarians and others objectivists a la Ayn Rand : I recall that it was president Teddy Roosevelt who promulgates against Standard Oil the first antitrust law in the world, just one century ago...

But wathever, I must say that I'm very surprised by the lack of curiosity of the Apple lawyers about those european laws with telecom consumers protection. This lack of competence could be explained by the fact that Apple is very new on the cellphone market, and they forget to hire lawyers having international experience about that line of market.

People, why are you bashing the French over something as silly as... err.. iPhones? I'm English and I should say I'll have French food, clothing and manners over the American way of life anytime.

That said, I think Apple will have no choice on this one; they won't be able to launch the iPhone in Europe the AT&T;way, that'd just seem highly questionable, and I strongly doubt anyone but the biggest Apple fans would buy into it. (That probably does include me... d'oh!)

http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com

I Hate The FRENCH!
I must restrain myself here..... (or so the lawyers say):
My opinions of European governments, laws, culture, socialist dogma, infrastructure, deodorants, styles and stupidity are well known. Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-european, I am just against stupidity! Whether it comes from Apple, IBM or the EU Competition Commission.

How can we stop people from buying our products?
How can we cease to be a monopoly when our customers make us that?
If we are put in a position of dominance, shouldn't we dominate?
Shouldn't we crush the small companies which threaten what our customers clearly want,- US?

"Microsoft must now comply fully with its legal obligations to desist from engaging in anticompetitive conduct. The Commission will do its utmost to ensure that Microsoft complies swiftly," - Neelie Kroes (EU greasy lawyer) said in a statement.

Hey Neelie! "Neelie", lol, What cha' gonna do if I just close down all of our operations over there?
That would solve a lot of our problems, wouldn't it?
You would no longer have to worry about MS and we would no longer have to worry about guys like you constantly whining and sucking us dry!
I'm gonna give this option some serious thought. Who needs that funny pink, green and blue money of you people's anyways?

Just thinking out loud.

"course, in every country I've been in, there are other countries the native population likes to make fun of "

The great thing about French jokes is that they're universal. Everybody hates the French.

" English and I should say I'll have French food, clothing and manners over the American way of life anytime."

Lets not get started on the English. That country's entered it's decline and isn't coming back. That's why you need all that froggy stuff, you're a wanna-be frog.

"
Lets not get started on the English. That country's entered it's decline and isn't coming back. That's why you need all that froggy stuff, you're a wanna-be frog."


Maybe I should take my salary in pounds and move to the third wo... em, the US of A. With your currency and economy going to the dogs faster and faster, I'll live like the Queen of Frogs over the pond. Heh.

"Maybe I should take my salary in pounds and move to the third wo... em, the US of A."

I'm sorry, we threw all the unproductive Brits out of the country a couple of centuries back.

"I'll live like the Queen of Frogs over the pond. Heh."

Come on over. We'll be happy to give you the same treatment as the last Queen of the Frogs.