“If you caught the Mac Pro’s introduction during last week’s Worldwide Developers Conference keynote, you know that Phil Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president for worldwide product marketing, punctuated his demo of the new high-end desktop by uttering the ‘D’ word—Dell. Specifically, Schiller brought up Dell to compare its price to the standard 2.66GHz Mac Pro Quad’s $2,499 price tag. By Schiller’s math, a similarly configured Dell Precision 690 would run you $3,448—around $950 more than the Mac Pro,” Dan Frakes reports for Macworld.
Frakes reports, “That’s an eye-catching figure, especially in light of the widely held perception that Macs are more expensive than their PC counterparts. But is it an accurate figure? To double-check Apple’s math, I went on a virtual shopping spree. My mission: configure a Mac Pro and a comparably-featured Dell model and see how their prices measured up.”
Frakes found that “the significance of the Mac Pro, from a price perspective, is not that it’s debatably price-competitive with somewhat similar offerings from Dell (and other Windows-PC vendors); rather, it’s that the Mac Pro is the first Mac in a long, long time that is unquestionably less expensive than its Windows counterparts in the same market segment.”
Full article, with price breakdown chart showing an Apple Mac Pro that’s US$1,347 less than a comparably-equipped Dell (plus the Dell can’t run Mac OS X) here.
Related MacDailyNews articles:
Microsoft Windows five times more expensive for users than Apple’s Mac OS X – August 15, 2006
Apple Mac Pro with/ 20” Cinema Display less expensive than Dell Precision 690 sans monitor – August 10, 2006
Bear Stearns: Apple’s new Mac Pro, Xserve pricing well below comparable Dell systems – August 09, 2006
Apple cuts prices across entire Cinema Display line – August 08, 2006
Dell warns of earnings miss; shares plunge 15% – July 21, 2006
Survey shows big jump in consumer interest in buying Apple Mac; Dell takes steep slide – July 06, 2006
The Wired 40: Apple #2, Microsoft drops to #36, Dell falls off list – June 28, 2006
Time Magazine on Apple’s 13-inch MacBook: ‘Dell and HP should be very worried’ – June 07, 2006
Apple passes Dell in market value – May 02, 2006
Dude, you got a Dell? What are you, stupid? Only Apple Macs run both Mac OS X and Windows! – April 05, 2006
All the barriers to entry in the Mac market are tumbling down.
Throw in a Windows XP Pro license and the Apple is STILL cheaper. Running OSX and Windows in one beautiful box (for those that need to)… is there really a choice here? People just need to taste OSX, then they’ll be hooked.
The article did not even include a monitor for the Mac. nor did it compare equally priced CD/DVD drives.
and then the dude shamelessly talks about Maximum Ram? Go ahead and add the prices for the Ram to your final price list. Infact pick the same for both then see the price difference.
and by the way Adding the “Maximum Ram” suggested to the price bumps it up by $5400, for the Mac Pro, thats already way beyond the $3,048 priced out for it.
Sorry but this article is misleading. Go to Dell online and go to apple store online and price these bitches out with comparable devices!
When i did it it was for the 3.00 Ghz Xeon processors and they were ~equally priced with the apple being only slightly higher.
Hooray for apple equally pricing their products!
( or is it? )
Steve Jobs said the decision to go to Intel was based on a FLOP/WATT ratio. Claiming that IBM could not make the performance to power ratio.
I think they used a price/FLOP ratio. And it may pay off. As long as Intel is able to offer one or two “premium” performance CPU’s that are on par with everybody else, this will be a good long term plan.
“price bumps it up by $5400”
okay.. that’s sane.
Sorry but this article is misleading. Go to Dell online and go to apple store online and price these bitches out with comparable devices!
And the Dell comes out with the HIGHEST price…
http://systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2006/0809_dt3200.html
And the Mac Pro comes with a 20″ Cinema Display even and still cheaper!
I hate to say this, but the Dell includes a $250 Dell 19” UltraSharp 1907FP monitor, which I guess you could purchase and use with the Mac Pro; Apples 20″ Cinema Display is $699. They should do something about they’re display prices. They didn’t figure that into the price. Please don’t shoot the messnger.
We had Dells once at work, never again. Still haven’t gone fully over to Apple though. Gotta keep evangelising
Indeed… Said..
“And the Dell comes out with the HIGHEST price…
http://systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2006/0809_dt3200.html
And the Mac Pro comes with a 20″ Cinema Display even and still cheaper!”
Care to tell me why in the final price list the author of that article decides to charge 2 Xeon processors upgrades when no other website does that when they compare the 690 against the Mac Pro?
On System Shootout website:
For the DELL
Base system price: $1,579
2.66 GHz Dual Core Xeon upgrade: $520
Second 2.0 GHz Dual Core upgrade: $869
For the MAC PRO
Base system price: $2,124
+ 2x 2.66 GHz Dual Core Xeon Upgrade: $300
Do me a favour try pricing it yourself, TODAY. I cant even find a Xeon 2.66ghz 690 on the DELL website all they have is 3.00 GHZ and up.
Will somebody please tell me why Macs don’t come with more RAM?? I find it frustrating that although I am willing to put down $2500 on a new MacPro, I have to spend an extra $300 for 1 Gig more RAM, and $1100 for 2 more Gigs! WHY??? Anybody??
Dear AL,
The RAM prices are as such because like ipod gear “THAT’S HOW THEY GET YOU”
Bais/Bias.. dude you cant spell, but you do have a point.
Thanks for wasting our time cause we still are going to get an Apple, becasue in the long run Macs are cheaper to maintain.
Yes I agree it is rather difficult to find anything on the Dell site.
Care to tell me why in the final price list the author of that article decides to charge 2 Xeon processors upgrades when no other website does that when they compare the 690 against the Mac Pro?
Care to tell me what is the point of comparing a single Xeon Dual Core processor price with a Mac Pro that HAS two Xeon Dual Core?
What’s the point in comparing Apple to a Banana?
If you want a 690 with TWO Dual Core Xeon as the Mac Pro those are the prices.
Comparison is with EQUALLY (to the best match possible) configured systems, otherwise what is the point?
Getting OS X, the most advanced operating system in the world, justifies any kind of plastic box from Dell.
“Will somebody please tell me why Macs don’t come with more RAM?? I find it frustrating that although I am willing to put down $2500 on a new MacPro, I have to spend an extra $300 for 1 Gig more RAM, and $1100 for 2 more Gigs! WHY??? Anybody??”
I can’t think of any reason other than Apple’s marketing strategy, which is based on fixed price points for each of their systems. They don’t have to do what Dell does, which is to change pricing literally every day. Try pricing the same system on different days (sometimes even hour to hour on the website), and you will see significant changes. Dell does this to balance inventory of components in their buid-to-order system. Apple’s manufacturing is note really BTO.
This is especially relevant to memory, because it is priced as a commodity, with pretty significant changes possible in short periods of time. Apple doesn’t want to have to factor volitile memory pricing into their costingof systems, so they keep it to a minimum. This let’s them keep the price of a system steady for long periods of time.
By the way, this also let’s Apple increase their margins during a product cycle, as the processors of a given speed get cheaper in its life cycle. They then upgrade to a faster CPU at the original cost of the earlier processor, and the cycle begins again.
Compare with Dell, where you can probably still buy a 1MHZ pentium for dirt cheap, if you want it. (No, I’m not going to check Dell myself)
Mac Pro
Suggested configuration:
Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon “Woodcrest” processors
4MB shared L2 cache per processor
1.33GHz dual independent frontside buses
1GB memory (667MHz DDR2 fully-buffered DIMM ECC)
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT graphics with 256MB memory
250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7200-rpm hard drive1
16x double-layer SuperDrive (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
$2,499.00
or as low as $59 a month
Ships: Within 24 hours
Free Shipping
Shall configure a Dell with same stuff? Wonder about the price?
Oh wait, Dell offers a two dual Pentium D that cost about the same as the Mac Pro. Worth comparing…NOT!
Care to tell me why in the final price list the author of that article decides to charge 2 Xeon processors upgrades when no other website does that when they compare the 690 against the Mac Pro?
So a single dual core costs less that a Quad core? (two dual Xeon core)
WOW, I couldn’t even imagine why is that!
Indeed… said
“Care to tell me what is the point of comparing a single Xeon Dual Core processor price with a Mac Pro that HAS two Xeon Dual Core?
What’s the point in comparing Apple to a Banana?”
The Dell website already comes with one processor installed (no charge for that), and you have an option to purchase a seconrdary one.
The author of the website you included in your post charges for TWO of them separately, when this is not the case at all on the Dell website.
What the folks at system shoot out should have done is not charge for the primary chip. which lowers the price by $520 for the dell, which makes it.. still cheaper than the Mac. (according to the website you suggested)
Please fire your fact checker.
naaa naaa naa, i can’t hear you (fingers in ears) dells are cheaper, macs are expensive, laaaaa laaaaaaa
MDN – “Full article, with price breakdown chart showing an Apple Mac Pro that’s US$1,347 less than a comparably-equipped Dell”
The hint is: COMPARABLY-EQUIPPED.
If you get a base Dell offering for less than the Mac Pro for less… frankly…
who gives a fsck care? You get cheaper because you get less.
It’s not rocket science… or is it?
The Dell comes with ONE Xeon at 2 GHz. You have to pay more for two Dual Core Xeon at 2.6 GHz.
Processeur Intel® Xeon® 5130 Dual-Core (2GHz, 4Mo L2 Cache, 1333MHz FSB)
and the above costs 2199 Euros or over 2800 US$
for a SINGLE dual core Xeon at 2.0 GHz.
Again, compare equally equipped computer please.
It’s a waste of time but here we go…
said…
“The hint is: COMPARABLY-EQUIPPED.”
Shouldnt that mean that you should put a price point down for your RAM and not say “Maximum Ram”
If you want to be comparabe at least get the basics specs of a machine (like RAM Allocation) ironed out on paper before making that statement.
I dont mind not including a monitor and other peripherals or even software for that matter, but i will not tolerate basic specs being left out. That is misleading.
Dell Precision 690-One Intel® Xeon® 5130 (2.0GHz,1333,4MB) 1KW [base price]
Dell Precision 690-One Intel® Xeon® 5140 (2.33GHz,1333,4MB) 1KW [add 144,00]
Dell Precision 690-One Intel® Xeon® 5150 (2.66GHz,1333,4MB) 1KW [add 391,00]
Dell Precision 690-One Intel® Xeon® 5160 (3.0GHz,1333,4MB) 1KW [add 824,00]
to base price of 2199 Euros.
Having TWO dual Xeon costs about 1000€ more a whopping $4073
I am not even adding other stuff like hard disk, memory and bundled software.
Fire YOUR fact checker
Indeed…
I dont know what website you are looking at but from the way you spelled “Processeur” it sounds kinda out of the USA to me.
ANYHOW i am comparing USA price points and i cannot find a 2.0 ghz or a 2.66 ghz xeon processor on the USA DELL website.
Like spyinthesky said the DELL website is a difficult mother to surf through.
If your price points are indeed outside of the USA and you priced the apple to be lower than kudos to you as I will not goto a different region and price their product.
Configuring the Mac Pro with 2 GB memory (equal to the 2GB included in Dell price) I get from Dell:
Dell, ONE dual Xeon 2.66 GHz : 2792 €
Mac Pro, TWO dual Xeon 2.66 GHz: 2799 €
to have TWO dual Xeon 2.66 GHz Dell (over the phone) charges almost 700 € for over 3500 €
Pretty easy to check – with Dell – that they cannot get me a Mac Pro configuration for 2800 €. I need to cash out 800 € more.
AND, I cannot run as well OS X there.
On the Mac Pro I can run OS X and Windows. If I have to include the bundled sw that comes with the Mac Pro… not even worth looking at how much I would have to pay for a similarly configured Dell wrt the Mac Pro.
Weird that Dell does not offer the same CPU configurations as in Europe. Prices are as given above for the various speed.
Pricing the Mac and the Dell in the same region.
Indeed….
the only thing the USA dell website has for 2.66 GHz Dual Core Xeon Processor is a
2.66 GHz Dual Core Xeon Second Processor for Dell PowerEdge 1950 Server
If your price points are right then MDN should change their title of this article to be more geographiclly specific and provide the email address of the author of the article so we can write to them explaining their mess. ALSO MDN should provide the email address of the author’s Manager, so that we can write to him/her and explain the mess.
That is MDN’s protocol on bad facts for MAC products… isn’t it?
dont tell me you are going to be “yellow” on this MDN…
Tried calling Dell USA and asking for a dual dual core Xeon? This is what the author of the shootoutsystem must have done.
If you cannot have a Dell 690 with TWO dual core Xeon in the US at 2.66 GHz then there is nothing to compare in the US as Dell is not offering a similar configuration than the Mac Pro, hence more expensive by default if they sell a single processor for similar price as dual processor system.
Again, weird that I can get various speeds in EU and you can’t in the US.
Dell must ripping US customers big time then with their prices.
SORRY, SORRY, SORRY.
I wrote <i>Mac Pro, TWO dual Xeon 2.66 GHz: 2799 €<i>
BIG MISTAKE. The configuration above is actually 2498,99 € so…
EVEN CHEAPER.
To get a Dell in EU with two dual core Xeon system it is not 800€ more but a whopping 1100€ more, or in US $ an amazing $1,400 MORE than the Mac Pro over here.
Even more pleased to have double checked. 2498,99 €
Buying TWO now 😀
Indeed…
i dont know how to agree with your comment about dell ripping off its USA customers as the only comparision i can do is with 3.00 ghz ( which is the high end for Mac and the Low end for DELL ) meaning that when you add up everything else you are on different ends of the product spectrum you HD and graphics for example will vary greatly.
I want to say that DELL changed the specs in the USA after WWDC? but that would just mean that i am on the apple side.
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Sorry again, I noticed I had given the right price from the beginning: 2498,99 €
goes to 2799 € with 2 GB memory installed but I can get memory much cheaper than at Apple so I would not do it anyway.
Still, why Dell does not offer the same configuration flexibility as in EU for the 690?
i dont know how to agree with your comment about dell ripping off its USA customers as the only comparision i can do is with 3.00 ghz
Let’s see here:
Mac Pro with 3GHz two dual core Xeon: 3598€ (tax included)
Dell 690 with ONE dual core Xeon 3GHz: 3225 €.
Not going to call again for a dual but assuming same additional 800€ for the dual then
Dell 690 with 3GHz two dual core Xeon: ~4025 €
Concerning ripping off, I was referring to your comments on similar prices but one dual core wrt to two dual core.
Would be interesting to ask the ‘systemshootouts.org’ site how he gets a 690 with two dual core Xeon 2.66 GHz since it is not available on the US Dell web site (haven’t checked myself).
Unless, as you say, Dell removed it after WWDC. Plausible.
the new price point is great, but check out the apple store. Quad core g5s are going for 3,299!!! what is that about? maybe it’s the high-tech liquid cooling system. but still, why woul someone want to buy that when the updated intel version is 8 hundred less?
Two dual-core 2.5GHz PowerPC G5 processors
1.25GHz frontside bus per processor
1MB L2 cache per core
512MB of 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-4200)
250GB Serial ATA hard drive
16x SuperDrive (double-layer)
Three open PCI-Express expansion slots
NVIDIA GeForce 6600 with 256MB GDDR SDRAM
$3,299
Developers! Developers! Developers! Whaa? Oh – shit – nevermind.
You want to know how Dell can sell a million sub-$1,000 systems for about a penny of profit each? Figure the profit built in to the workstation-class systems in the various comparisons at MacWorld, ShootOuts and Inquirer. Dell is going to have to come closer to Apple’s pricing – closer to the price of a somewhat-similar Mac Pro – to maintain that end of the market. Which means … what? … either for the sub-$1,000 systems or their net profits? They will either have to increase their profit margin at the lower end or suffer a loss of corporate profits. Lose profits and stock price drops, which means executive compensation drops, which means pain from the boardroom down to anyone earning at least six figures. Apple’s market cap ($56B) already exceeds Dell’s ($50B), despite the hit it took from the ‘scandal’. Their trailing P/E is ~15 to Apple’s ~30 … which gives them some room to maneuver.
This price comparison is going to cost Dell (et al) a few sales – maybe a hundred thousand machines per quarter – but the significant fact isn’t in the units sold (trivial, for Dell) but the profits generated by them (NOT trivial).
I did a quick price comparison (Dell against base Mac Pro configuration with upgraded video card for equality) and found a signficant price difference in favor of the Mac as noted elsewhere. However, I did find that the price difference rapidly shrinks as you add options to both (additional RAM, additional/larger HDDs).
The answer, of course, is to upgrade your Mac using third party hardware because Apple BTO prices are generally quite high. That won’t be a surprise to any Mac veterans, but it might help those who are new to the Mac.
@scottm:
“I hate to say this, but the Dell includes a $250 Dell 19” UltraSharp 1907FP monitor, which I guess you could purchase and use with the Mac Pro; Apples 20″ Cinema Display is $699.”
The Dell resolution (from their web site):
Support for 1280 x 1024 pixel resolution for clear, sharp images
The Apple resolution (from their web site):
Support for 1680 x 1050 pixel resolution for display of high definition still and video imagery.
Compared to an Apple Display, the Dell is neither Ultra or Sharp.
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Indeed…
i dont know how to agree with your comment about dell ripping off its USA customers as the only comparision i can do is with 3.00 ghz ( which is the high end for Mac and the Low end for DELL ) meaning that when you add up everything else you are on different ends of the product spectrum you HD and graphics for example will vary greatly.
I want to say that DELL changed the specs in the USA after WWDC? but that would just mean that i am on the apple side.
Actually, the 3ghz Xeon is the old, non-Woodcrest model. Very slow and probably not even dual core. Plus you only get one. It’s like comparing a 2Ghz Pentium 4 to a 2Ghz Core 2 Duo.
Since I’m a Mac user, these comparisons are meaningless; Dells cannot run Mac OS X. But for Windows users, these comparisons highlight the fact that for the same price or possibly much less (depending on who is comparing), you can get a better quality machine that can run either Windows or Mac OS X (and it comes with a popular software suite at no extra cost).
Apple is in for some good times. There is a wide gap in Apple’s desktop monitorless product lineup between the fastest Mac mini and the slowest Mac Pro. If Apple could put something in there that uses Conroe (Core 2 Duo) with upgradeable video (or at least dedicated video), and a standard 3.5-inch hard drive, they would have a big hit. The “gap” is currently so wide that I’m sure Apple can do it without canibalizing sales of Mac mini or Mac Pro.
One big advantage Apple has in pricing… They do not have to include the cost for Windows. There is R&D for Mac OS X development, of course, but that’s accounted for the in 25% (or whatever it is) margin, unlike the OS expense for Dell.
I’m soooo tired of the PC business. Michael Dell can kiss my MS ass.
I’m going to do what nobody else on the planet can do, give away billions of dollars…….aaahhhhh
no more flying chairs and NO MORE FRIGG’N WINDOWS. Jack and Coke HIV cocktails for everybody….. party party party, wooohoooo, I’mmmmm frreeeeeeeeee
Bias and Indeed:
Dell only offers the Intel Xeon 5150 dual core “Woodcrest” processors on their servers and small business workstations.
To find the configurable desk top that includes it as an option, select Dell’s Small Business store and then choose the Dell Precision 690 (the Preceision 490 can handle the 51xx series but not the multiple monitors).
Start here:
Dell Precision 690 Workstation
Be sure to check to 1000 watt power supply to support graphics cards properly (The Mac has a 1400 watt p/s)
Bias said:
i dont know how to agree with your comment about dell ripping off its USA customers as the only comparision i can do is with 3.00 ghz ( which is the high end for Mac and the Low end for DELL ) meaning that when you add up everything else you are on different ends of the product spectrum you HD and graphics for example will vary greatly.
The 2.67GHz 5150 Intel Xeon with a 1.333GHz Front End Bus is far faster than the fastest of the previous generation Xeons, the 5080 although it clocks at 3.75GHz.
The 5150 is 33% faster than the 5080… the fastest of the 50XX series… in the Railgun FPS at 800X600 benchmark
The 5150 is 36% faster than the 5080… the fastest of the 50XX series… in the Railgun FPS at 1280×1024 benchmark
The 5150 is 44% faster than the 5080… the fastest of the 50XX series… in the Doom 3 FPS at 1280×1024 – low quality benchmark
The 5150 is 41% faster than the 5080… the fastest of the 50XX series… in the Doom 3 FPS at 1280×1024 – high quality benchmark
The 5150 is 45% faster than the 5080… the fastest of the 50XX series… in the time for a Lame Compilation benchmark
The 5150 is 48% faster than the 5080… the fastest of the 50XX series… in the Freebench Mason benchmark
Here is my configuration from Dell’s Small Business Store:
I’ll step you through it.
Start with a Dell Precision Workstation 690.
Starting price (all prices reflect a $200 small business discount) : $1579.00
Ignore the processor choice… we’ll adjust that on the next page… but do select the “Genuine Windows® XP Professional, SP2 with Media” as Apple provides media and OS X.4.7 Intel is not completely 64 bit compatible (OS X.5 Leopard will be but at the moment that’s hot air ware) and the “1 Kilowatt Enhanced System scalable to Dual Graphics Cards supporting NVIDIA® SLI™ technology and Quad Monitor configurations” because the Mac Pro supports Quad monitor configurations.
Upgraded Price: $2049.00
Upgrade the processor from the base 5050 to Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5150 2.66GHz, 4MB L2,1333
Upgraded Price: $2569.00
Add a second matching Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5150 2.66GHz, 4MB L2,1333 to match the Mac Pro’s quad processors.
Upgraded Price: $3438.00
Upgrade the included graphic card one step to a 128MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro NVS 285, Dual DVI or Dual VGA Capable because the Mac has that capability out of the box. The Mac’s card has 256MB of Video RAM… more than this low end PC card.
Upgraded Price: $3448.00
Upgrade the memory to the faster 667MHz.
Upgraded Price: $3478.00
Upgrade the Hard drive from 80GB to 250 GB to match the Mac.
Upgraded Price: $3568.00
Upgrade the CD ROM drive to a 48XCDRW AND 16XDVD+/-RW, w/Cyberlink PowerDVD™ and Roxio Creator™ to match the Mac Pro’s capabilities.
Upgraded Price: $3662.00
Add the Dell Wireless 1450 (802.11 b/g) WLAN USB 2.0 DT Adapter
Upgraded Price: $3711.00
Add the Dell USB Enhanced Multimedia Keyboard with built-in 2-port USB Hub because the Apple keyboard has the built-in 2 port USB Hub.
Upgraded Price: $3740.00
Upgrade the mouse to Dell USB 2-Button Optical Mouse with Scroll
Upgraded Price: $3754.00
Oh. and add another Broadcom NetXtreme 10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet controller-PCI Express card because the basic Mac Pro has two…
FINAL Upgraded Price: $3803.00
——————————————-
Basic Mac Pro Price: ……$2499.00
Upgrade the RAM to 2GB.
Upgraded Price: $2799.00
<u>Difference ……………………$1104.00</u>
AMEN to that.
And I do not see Dell cutting their prices on towers by $1000 any sooner. They are in trouble already (lost recently 2% of their market share, lower revenues, bad PR from after sales support based in the far east).