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Dell-ilnquent that is what they are. Trying to copy everything apple has created. Micheal Dell should be ashamed!

Even though Sony's product is not #1 anymore, isn't everything (portable) that plays CD's or cassettes still called a Walkman?

Now, I am officially NOT worried about the future of iPod or the fate of Mac mini (not too far different than before). Michael Dell said a few years ago that (paraphrasing) 'Apple should close up shop and give the return back to investors.'

We all know what happened since then.

And no, I haven't forgiven him since. I'll hold that grudge till the day I die...or Dell, Inc does. Whatever comes first.

The walkman raged for probably a decade, and changed the game in terms of how people listened to their music. Yeah, it's kind of dead now, but would Sony trade that 10-year-run for anything? I doubt it. Yes, the iPod will fade in the next several years--Apple's job is to come up with the next killer product to fill the void when the inevitable decline begins.

Quote: "You have to have sustainable business models, sustainable strategy." - Dell is a PC assembler. No vision, no innovation. Every move they make has to be 'approved' by Microsoft.

PC builders come and go. Remember Packard Bell, Compuadd, IBM, Gateway (death bed), Compaq (bought out), and slews of others.

Dell is the current favorite - so what? If the industry (or consumer tastes) change, they will be in trouble.

Once Sony Walkmans were very popular. That they aren't popular anymore is not because they were fads. It's because of bad decisions Sony made with their Walkman branding and also the devices they put on the market - they entered mp3 market way too because of the Minidisc. The bad decisions came after Mr. Sony died. After that, Sony didn't know anymore what kind of products to put on the market and how to brand their products. Now every Sony portable product is called Walkman.

Why don't he just keep is mouth shut and "earn" some respect?

I think Dell is scared. Apple has thrown a BIG wrench into its long term plans.

Dell builds PCs. Currently they run Windows. Buy a Dell and get Windows. Linux is on the horizon, and Dell is banking BIG TIME that it will be the 'next big thing'. Buy a Dell and get Linux. The point is that you still buy a Dell.

Now, if consumers (and businesses) migrate to MacOS X instead of Linux, Dell loses - big time.

It's a shame that Sony died beccause their Walkman ceased to be the 'cool' gadget. They were such a good company. Let's all share in a moment of silence for a company that had so much potential yet met an early demise because their 'one' product is no longer a 'must have'. They will be missed.
Hmmmm... Dell. It's like paying for cancer!!
Even if I were to ever buy another PC (for whatever god forsaken reason that may be) I would have more respect for myself and the money I was spending to buy one of their integrated litter boxes. Talk about someone that needs to close up shop! They give MicroSoft a bad name!!!
I would say that this was my two cents but I don't want Micheal being able to write that off as a donation!!
And why in the hell would MDN give me the magic word "window"...?

He sounds a lot like Real's CEO Rob Glasser did a few months ago when he kept talking about how worthless the itunes music store was.

First Post! I DO feel the wave of euphoria, actually.

I don't think we should even bother with Dell's opinions, or Microsoft's, or Creative's, because the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

We'll see who has a viable brand name in 10 years.

TMAN

Totally agree. Dell are completely dependent on other's for their product to succeed.

Wow, that was stupid. I need to remember to hit "submit" next time.

I've lost my euphoria.

The Sony Walkman (in all it's different forms) has been on sale for over 25 years. Longer than Dell has been in existence!

Even though it may not be 'all the rage' today, I don't think you can call 25 years and over 300 million sold......a 'fad'.

As another poster has mentioned, Sony could still be at the top of the pile if they had got their act together when mp3s became the 'rage'.

Long live the Dell DJ !

Yeah, Sony sucks. They only do $40 Billion / year in electronics sales. (Not to mention $5 Billio in music sales)

I hope Apple is never that unsuccessful.

C'MON GUYS!

Dell isn't scared... I love Macs, I think they are great machines, don't get me wrong, but Dell is not scared of the Mac Market. They are huge in the computer world. Go into a doctor's office - they are all Dells.

I really hope the Mac Mini does well, but it's not going to put a dent into Dell. Someone has to be a litle bit realistic here on the forums!

The Walkman comments don't even make logical sense. What year did the Walkman come out? Like 1980 or something? And I can go buy one right now down the street. Yeah, that was a brief fad.

It's true the mini probably won't make much of a dent in the industry. However, it could still be a boon to Apple.

Dell is nothing but a product of MBA-think. They would be just as happy if they were making their money on shoes or cattle feed.

What never ceases to amaze me, is how many people always foretell the demise of Apple. Year after Year, someone makes a fool of themselves by predicting the iceberg/titanic scenario.

As far as I can see, the problem is an ethical one. Most other computer-Vendors out there sell the public a substandard model, in essence cheating them of what the could have. Then a companxy like Apple comes along, and shows the world what they could have. Now, obviously, the competition fears that the public will demand a product of the same standard that Apple can deliver. This, companies like Dell can never do, since they have no control over the products individual pieces.

Apple is the only company that can harmonise (please excuse the pun) hardware and software. Even Microsoft has had some success with that, look at the XBox. and this is where the crux lies. The general public consensus will move away from "cheap" to "affordable", and that is where Apple has positioned themselves with the mini.

If iPod=(new)Walkman then Long Live the iPod!

So how are those Dell DJ sales these days Mikey? Is your market share up over 2% yet?

Apple does have a long-term business strategy, it's called innovation. Dell does too, it's called plagarism.

Dell will eventually follow the footsteps of Gateway and slowly wither. Dell and its own success is built on a fad and just like Gateway was the most popular computer back in the day, only to fall apart later on, Dell will more than likely see the same fate.

Either way, Dell would be the last PC on earth I'd buy. Especially since they don't offer the best x86 CPUs (hence AMD) in their product line.

Steve said "So how are those Dell DJ sales these days Mikey? Is your market share up over 2% yet?"

Don't you mean .02%

Dell, schmell.... who cares what Michael Dell or any of his stooges think? This is the guy, the latest guy, in the ever changing PC market. Another box builder that invents nothing. They have no value added proposition and no future if Microsoft Windows goes in the toilet.

All these other companies are now in denial mode. When Apple does great they think of it as only a fad or a one hit wonder. That's funny because OSX, iMac, iBook and the iPod have been selling well for a few years now. I don't call that a one hit wonder or a fad. They also think just because Apple put out the iPod shuffle that it's to late or it's been done before. But no one has done it the Apple way. No other company has the integration of hardware and software.

Here's why Dell should be sweating bullets...

http://www.systemshootouts.org/shootouts/desktop/2005/0111_dt0600.html

He's right...the Sony Walkman was a fad... a TEN YEAR FAD that made hundreds of millions and set the new standard for us all. It put Sony on the map. This guy is really talking long term with his statements. I don't expect the iPod to be hot for ten years, I expect the iPod to set the newest standard and make Apple at least a billion on the low end scale and to keep upgrading for as long as the party lasts. I can see sustenance for at least 5 years minimum. Dell needs to be thinking about their jukebox upgrade and quit speculating on how long the iPod will be around. That kind of statement just shows their attitude...meanwhile, Apple just keeps rolling along down the hill.
Anyone remember Michael Dell and the bullseye at Jobs keynote a few years back?? Looks to me like the accuracy is improving.

"Well you don't hear about the Walkman anymore"

It's called Software, buddy. The iPod has AAC/F drm which means that once people get used to the iPod, and pick up some iTunes music, they won't be picking up a Dell anytime soon. What 'interface' did the Walkman have? There wasn't really one, it was just a piece of hardware with a brand name.

Dell DJ is, off course a knock-off, or as SJ says, a wannabe.. running the WMA software which means it can't compete with the iPod.

One product wonder huh.. Does he know Apple kind of...showed Gates the way with Personal Computing? Oops.. These guys should meet up and figure out how to dis Apple..


Dell's CEO shouldn't be too happy with Apple's 26% CPU units growth.. and that was before the Mac mini came out.

He doesn't get that people--1million a week--will go to Apple stores for iPods and see these AMAZING 500 dollar Macs.

What do you think they're going to say? 'Windows is fine'? '500 is too much'?

Get real.

Well it certainly would be news if Dell were to admit that the Mac mini was a great offering, but instead they'll do their best to try and talk it down.

It's interesting to hear Rollins talk of the Walkman as a fad that rages and then drop off.

It's an valid metaphor, but of course it does beg the question 'Which is the fad ? iPod or Dell ?'

It's not impossible for Dell to find that the fire burns less brightly before goings out.

There are plenty of precedents.

Didn't Xerox show Jobs the way with Personal Computing?

Well Let me tell you about Dell. Right now they are clueless, cause they have nothing to copy. You see they need other companys to make stuff so they can take it and tear it apart and make it theirs by putting their name on it. Take a look at the printers they sell, look like a epson printer to me with a Dell logo on it.You see Dell need companys like Apple so they can stay it front with other company ideas.When was the last time have Dell come out with something or what they call their own. Oh yea never. But they call themself a computer company HA HA HA HA. KEVIN ROLLINS you are a joke and so is MARY DELL too. THE only reason you are no. 1 company cause you sell junk to people who don't know anything about computers. But when they find out what they got. They don't come back.So now Dell needs other companys to buy their junk. Like hospitals and police department and department stores. Until KEVIN baby you make something that you call your own idea , don't throw stones when you yourself live in a glass house.

Michael already has more money than god. If he loses 97% marketshare (to Apple or anyone) tomorrow, he'll still have more money than god.

I just hope he has all of it invested in DELL..

Dell is the McDonalds of computers - cheap crap that makes you sick and overweight yet still billions and billions are serverd

McClue has no McClue. That's why he works for Dell, a company of mediocre minds producing medicre products manufactured by other companies.

If Apple DOUBLES its computer market-share with the Mac mini, then SOMEONE (Michael Dell?) will LOSE a bit of market-share. I don't know what Dell's margins are (ought to ask my nephew - he works at their UK base) but I'd imagine they are pretty thin and so losing a slice of THEIR market-share (I'm no economist) would be noticed by shareholders. And they will squeal 'why did THIS happen?' and Michael would have to say 'I backed the WRONG OS and its all downhill from now'

Most (about 80%) of the Dells out there serve as nothing more than over-glorifired type writers in the land of cubicle hell, meaning that the majority of their share goes to the corporate business world and the rest goes to consumers (less than 4% of their overall 18% share).

The walkman market isn't dead. Dying maybe but definately not dead. And the only reason it is dying is because it is going to be replaced by new technology to do the same thing. Once the technology came along to be able to listen to your music in a portable fashion it has stayed with us and will continue to be with us.

"Consumer Electronics Association's estimate that consumers bought more than 23 million devices it classifies as "portable headset audio" in 2003--that's portable tape players, personal CD players and radios combined. Sales for these older personal audio devices peaked in 2001 at 38 million, more than three times the unit sales of MP3 players last year, according to CEA data. That gives you a fair idea of how far the iPod and similar devices have to go before they become the consumer force that many already assume they are. "

Hmmm, what year was it that Apple introduced the iPod???

from: http://forbes.com/personaltech/2004/10/15/cx_ah_1015tentech.html



Oh and I hope Dell really believes that garbage they are spewing. Take it easy Dell, everything is fine, don't worry, relax, sleep at that wheel.


brought to you by the magic word "volume". No interpretation necessary.

It looks like the biggest qualification in the tech CEO market today is how well you can troll the competition.

You don't hear about Walkman's anymore because you don't hear about cassette tapes anymore... The format became obsolete, thus making the Walkman obsolete... Sony tried to continue the Walkman name with the Discman, but a player wrapped around a 120mm disc is a little clunky, plus the disc skipping problem. I usually see people at the gym just placing their CD players next to them, rarely strapped to their belts. So, the discman wasn't quite right to replace the Walkman... But then things changed again and, Sony had a chance to keep the Walkman name alive... but they lacked foresight in the digital music arena, and opted to try and push the Minidisc format onto consumers... Consumers instead opted to go with digital file music copying instead (with the help of free online trading.) Sony ignored this and continued to push the Minidisc.. Apple, on the other hand, was smart enough to see how consumers wanted to manage their music, and made music file management work the way it should work, simple and easy. Other companies before and after Apple came out with digital music file copying solutions, but never put enough thought into it how it should all work... which is why Apple succeeded... Apple puts thought into their products and solutions...

So, the Walkman name died because of format obsolescence and Sony's mistakes at reading the future.

As I said in another thread, Dell would be well advised to keep his mouth shut when it comes to discissions about technological innovation. His innovation was economic, namely driving the commoditization of the PC. As more players enter a commodity field, they'll drive down margins in order to remain competitive, and profits will be cut to the bone. It's only a matter of time before China puts him out of business. He likes to talk smack, that's just a facet of his personality, so I'd advise everyone to not hyperventilate over his pronouncements.

Of course Michael Dell is gonna slag off the Mac Min and Ipod Shuffle - both products are competing against Dell's crap!

I wouldn't expect any other biased response from Mr Dell - who is scum in the eyes of everyone in the IT business (right next to Steve Ballmer and Bill 'Wanker' Gates of course!).

I think if he had said anything nice about Apples innovative new products I think I would have needed a visit to hospital for extreme shock!!

Also - I had a chat with my father in-law yesterday and he is having severe problems with his windows pc.

He brought up the subjects of maybe buying a Mac and came out with the all time classic myth "Mac are expense though".

I replied that that statement was rubbish and that you can buy a new mac for under £400. He was extremley surprised and I showed him the mac mini on the apple website and he is very keen to buy one!

He only needs to replace teh pc and not the monitor. keyboard and mouse so the mini is ideal for him. Especially as all he does is send emails, go on the web and write letters in Microsoft Office.

Just goes to show - the mac mini is opening Apple to alot of new mac users!!

I will continue to sell the mac 'way' to him and am determined to get a sale!!

Oh - he also mentioned maybe buying a Dell and I promptly put him upto speed with Dell's buying strategy of cheap components, bad build quality with what is the computer version of 'frankenstein's monster'.

So that blew Dell's possibility of a sale!!

The Walkman comparison is an interesting one, one that I am sure if he thinks about some more, he will never use again.

Sony sold over 100,000,000 Walkmans. That is not some trivial product as he is pretending it was. And the Digital Generation Walkmans would own the MP3 market had Sony not bought a record company and been paralyzed by internal politics.

But there is a bigger point he seems to be missing. Walkmans and all of their knock-offs played commodity tapes. This is no longer true in the digital age. The company that sells the Walkman, the 100M units, will own the format for the digital age.

And THAT is what Dell should be worried about. He will never be able to sell Macs. Ever. And if Apple owns the format for our digital lives, not Microsoft, that puts Dell in a tenuous position for the home and content creation markets.

Sure, Dell can continue to own the business market. But, as IBM has proven by selling off that business, that business has gone to complete commodity status and will be owned by the Chinese. (A bed Dell helped make for themselves. I love the irony.)

And even Dell's move into the consumer electronic space proves this. The PC business for the Wintel guys sucks for everyone buy Microsoft.

So, they should be very worried about Apple pulling a Walkman type hit.

DudeMac - You're right - Dell's belong in cubicle hell!!

After reading many, many (many) articles on Apple/market share and all that jazz, in the past couple of weeks and months, the press has sure changed.

I remember reading only a couple of months ago in articles on Apple and marketshare and how it had a low-brow 1-2% or whatever... But if you have read any of the articles in the past couple of days/weeks, you see that almost every article (excuse Thurrott, Dvorak, etc.) that most of them are using 3% as their number on marketshare!

Obviously, the numbers haven't increased that much in a short time (and to be honest, Apple probably has more than these numbers). But I think the media is looking at Apple in a different light. The times they are a-changin'...

Oh, alright Mr. Rollins. I'll get a Dell.

I'll phone in my order - as soon as Mikey's hand-delivered $2000 certified 'PREbate' gets deposited into my Visa!



-

A 'million' laughs.

How many times do you hear Apple's CEO degrading other companies' products in his keynotes? Never, that's right. And the reason is: he doesn't need to. When you have a strong case in your hands, you don't need to rely on negative advertising to make your own product look good; you just let its own quality speak for itself. He knows it and we know it. It's enough for Steve to show a bunch of "other mp3 players" to see that they are not as sleek, powerful, well integrated and easy to use as the iPod. And those who have tried iPod or any other Apple product know it! Have you wondered why is it that everytime Apple comes up with a new (awesome as usual) wave of upgrades to their hardware and software, the competition gets crazy, jumping right in to call Apple's products names? I understand, yes, it's a survival instinct, so they need to make others believe that their products (regardless of their poor quality) are still better than Apple's. But hey, there is a better way to do this, folks: Catch up with Apple's innovative spirit, so that your products will speak for themselves!!! Isn't it lame you have to speak for your products and make them look good even though they sucks? So, Dell, Microsoft and alike, please, go figure!

If anyone at Dell had an original or creative throught that advanced the long-term experience of their customers (as opposed to the short-term 'fix' of a low sticker price), it would die of loneliness.

As a percentage of either market capitalisation or revenue, Apple spends more on R&D;than Dell, and - to their credit - the same applies to both Sun and HP.

Dell are a pernicious parasite that, once Legend takes control of IBM's PC business, will have its lunch money stolen four days out of five – and I can't wait.

Spot on MCCFR.

Dell should be quaking with the Chinese at the Gates (nice round-about pun). They are going to be pumping massive amounts of low price computers in his back yard. The real question is, will they be able to obtain the high end processors. I don't know if those are made overseas or not. At any rate, if Mac can grab a larger portion of the domestic market, they will be in great shape for the future, as the Chinese will decimate the low-end PC market.

I'm pretty sure I remember Steve Jobs talking smack about other products during some of his keynotes, although I believe he's a little more tactful about it. I'm not sure he mentions the specific product/company and whatever he says usually gets laughs.

Not that there is anything wrong with that... I'm just saying he's not above verbally attacking the competition. The difference being that it never seems to come from pettiness or desperation. This all sounds like every teen drama out there. Michael Dell is playing the part of the rich jock asshole who is getting dumped for someone a lot less popular and he can't understand why.

I wanted to response to that Dull CEO sale person but then again..... its not worth my time. Just like telling Hyundai that it is not in the same league as that of Mercedes and BMW, that stupid CEO from Dull thinks Hyundai is in the upper league!!!!!! Why border!!!