MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Mar 18, 08 - 09:03 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

We only hate STUPID tech reporters.

(I won't name names.)

Mar 18, 08 - 09:05 am Comment from: Jay-Z

@ Mr. Reeee:

Precisely.

Mar 18, 08 - 09:06 am Comment from: TowerTone

..and tech gossipers.....

Mar 18, 08 - 09:09 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Don't feed the beast. Don't click through to the article.

It's just another "I need to pay my rent" articles. What better way to generate page hits than by dissing Mac users?

I suppose it beats sitting on the sidewalk with a tin cup, a blind dog and a misspelled sign.

Mar 18, 08 - 09:21 am Comment from: DakRoland

Yes, there are zealots and people who go overboard in their love of all things Apple, but there is also importance in keeping Tech Writers honest and on their toes. If they cite inaccurate 'facts', or mention statistics that are not based on truth, but rather pulled out of the air or based on anecdotal evidence, then yes, they should be taken to task for it. If a writer doesn't do their homework, and continues to propagate myths that have long since been debunked, then they should be made aware of it. It should never be in the guise of threats, insults or rude comments (licking Bill Gates balls!? WTF?). However, though maybe 99% of Apple's fan base abides by the rules of civil discourse, there are those 1% who will not. We can't control them. But *they* do not represent the majority of Apple users. Painting all Apple fans with such a broad brush, as Mr. Manjoo does in this article, is going a little too far. Criticism is part of the consequences of your job as writers, Mr. Manjoo, Mr. Pogue, and Mr. Mossberg. One or two rotten apples do (should) not spoil the whole bunch, right?

Unfortunately this article is generally right.
Many (not just a few, MDN) Mac fans suffer from this type of paranoia and it's done nothing but get Apple a bad name and, I believe, deter some from switching.
It's wholly counter-productive.

P.S. MDN itself is infamous for this shortcoming.

I think MDN harbors a lot of Mac zealots, ironically.

"Hate" is a strong word.

Maybe it's because we expect "tech writers" to be more knowledgeable than the average person who carries many misconceptions about Apple or the Mac.

Mar 18, 08 - 09:29 am Comment from: Journo

As usual, MDN is right.

Without sites like MDN, the tech "reporters" who are taking payola would simply continue without resistance, just getting richer and richer by spreading their lies.

Anyone who criticizes MDN, just doesn't get it.

Ok, Mossberg etc are not dissing Mac users. The technical writers featured in this article are generally pro-Apple for all the right reasons, becauses its products are never perfect but put the competition to shame.

If these writers routinely get slammed for not being pro-Apple enough then a lot of Mac fans are going overboard. What percentage? I have no idea, it would take a good study to know. But you idiots probably know who you are.

It wouldn't hurt MDN to suggest that its own readers keep things in perspective. One reason many of us love Apple is that they get it right amazingly often *despite* being real people who have to try things, *sometimes getting it wrong temporarily*.

Apple products almost all have tradeoffs. Apple's success is because they realize this more than most companies and sell products that do not include the kitchen sink. Its only common sense to grasp the short comings of Apple products before purchasing them. It doesn't mean they are not stellar.

Besides even Apple has had the occasional lemon. Kudos to Apple for pulling or revamping the occasional product instead of letting it limp along like many companies do.

Kudos to reviewers who are unafraid to give Apple a rare luke warm review when its deserved and for pointing out shortcomings in even stellar products. If you love Apple then support even handed reviews.

Mar 18, 08 - 09:33 am Comment from: Macromancer

No, just the ones that make dumb assumptions based on info about Apple that is a decade old.

There is pro-Apple FUD and there is anti-Apple FUD.

If reading an article about Mossberg, a very pro-Apple guy, experiencing pro-Apple FUD only prompts you to defend Apple lovers and bash anti-Apple FUD you might be one of those people that are incapable of wrapping your mind around the balanced view that all FUD is lame and harmful. If you post that one sided you view you are one of those pro-Apple FUD people.

Take a stand against all FUD.

Mar 18, 08 - 09:56 am Comment from: CheekyGit

No. Apple fans despise, loathe, dislike, detest, maybe feel disgust toward tech reporters. But never hate. LOL

Mar 18, 08 - 09:57 am Comment from: shen

Mossberg does a pretty good job of both pointing out when something is good, AND what it could do better.

Manjoo is just a putz. seriously, i read that article on the iPhone. he makes it sound like it will end 95% of the worlds problems, BUT it costs too much to keep.

first of all, if it is that great, too much to keep is about 4 billion dollars. second, it costs less than many phones that do less once you look at the complete cost of the phone.

third, it hasn't been out long enough to say for sure, but i bet like my Macs and iPods, rather than getting thrown out in a year or two it gets passed on as people upgrade. in a throw away society, that fact alone makes it too valuable to not own.

are there legitimate complaints about the iPhone? hell yes. price? are you stupid?

that is like saying that you love everything about your hybrid car EXCEPT the mileage. total cost of ownership matters. learn to think about holistic systems FTW......

the man is a moron.

Nevermark66 is right on the money.

While they at least they didn't use their pseudo-trademarked "Think Before You Click" advice for the full article, MDN seemed overly defensive.

Along with MacUser, MacNN and Appleinsider (all of which have their own strengths) I find MDN generally a great place to keep up-to-date. That said, too often their editorializing stakes out an extreme position (like their politics) which seem to enforce the Mac zealot stereotype. This site's vitriol towards Microsoft and other Apple rivals would seem to back this up.

Tech reporters by definition are supposed to be objective; otherwise they're lobbyists. If a reporter offers an honest personal opinion which is critical of an Apple decision, (such as Pogue's take on iMovie '08) MDN's take is always defensive.

Nevermark66 is dead on..Apple's tradeoffs on their products are not always perfect; depending on an individual's needs, they can be extremely frustrating. Likewise, pointing out positive things about the competition could be handled more thoughtfully. Some features of MS Office run circles around the more simple iWork. Offering an honest opinion about that doesn't make anyone a playa-hater. It would be nice if MDN would recognize that from time to time.

Man- replace "mac/Apple fans" with the word 'liberals" and you get the same effect -

"Why are Mac fans so quick to see bias everywhere? "

Apple fans "care little for honest opinion. They want to pick up the paper and see in it a reflection of their own nearly religious zeal for the thing they love. They don't want a review. They want a hagiography."

Mar 18, 08 - 10:28 am Comment from: Big Al

Not all tech writers are created equally. Some do receive consideration from certain entities for favorable opinions.

Let's face it, anyone talking up Vista has to have a financial stake in the outcome.

We all know there are Paid Microsoft Bloggers® working hard for their masters everywhere there are pro and con discussions on Microsoft's products or Microsoft's oppositions' products.

It's not too much of a stretch to see these Paid Microsoft Bloggers® acting like rabid, over the top Mac Fanatics just to help dull the attack of legitimate Mac fans pointing out obvious mistakes in a reviewer's conclusions or obvious FUD statements.

From now on, when a Mac fan loses it and acts like an ass in a blogged comment, we must all say that it is probably just Paid Microsoft Bloggers® trying to make Mac users look bad.

I don't think of myself as an Apple extremist. However, my eyelids narrow and I get very irritated every time I read the phrase "Macs are LESS PRONE to viruses than Windows..." Why do they always say that when it is patently untrue? Macs are not prone to viruses at all, but journalists think they have to say that to cover their asses, and so the general public believes that Macs get viruses just like Windows, only fewer of them.

Then there's Enderle. And Ina Fried. Not to mention Dvorak who throws out a whopper of a lie every now and then just to piss us off. Some of these "journalists" deserve every bit of hate mail they get. But I do wish the more zealous amongst us would lay off our allies like Mossberg and Pogue. We know they are not the true MS shills, even if they say something we don't 100% agree with.

Mar 18, 08 - 10:29 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

Those Roomba people are freaks.

IT'S JUST A VACUUM CLEANER. SHEESH!!!

This story is dead on! I love my MacBook Pro, and I'm very interested in all things Apple, but when I read the Mac Daily News take on these articles and read the comments that follow, I find myself thinking that some of the Mac faithful are off their medication! ;D

"As for us and, as we've found over the years, the vast majority of our readers, all we care about is honest opinion. It's the dishonest FUD masquerading as "opinion" that's often accompanied with some measure of "damning with faint praise" that draws our ire."

WOW! That's rich....I hate to break it to you MDN but you're part of the zealots group. You have no interest in an "honest opinion" as you put it and that is evidenced by your mostly inaccurate slams against anything Microsoft and preening adulation of anything Apple.

I think Macs are pretty cool but they're just a computer and Macs have their fair share of flaws. I often advocate them over PCs to many who are looking for a new computer.

Mossberg, however, nails it right on the head with his assessment.

It is quite amusing the innocent face that so-called "tech pundits" present to the mainstream media all the while not giving a tinker's damn about the rampant stupidity and aggressive partisanship practiced by their colleagues, or even themselves. Any Apple fan worth his weight in G4s knows full well the level of ignorance, lies and bias that Mac users and Apple supporters have been subjected to for 25 years. It has never let up and in the face of Apple's resurgence, it has in fact gotten worse. I am sorry that guys like Pogue have taken their lumps from the rabid end of Apple fans, but the simple fact of the matter is that Apple fans have developed a siege mentality and it is not without reason. One only has to look at the insipid complaints made against the iPhone 6 *months* before the "tech press" even so much as *touched* an iPhone. Many also ignore the fact that Apple fans do not hesitate to take Apple itself to task for it's missteps.

The majority of Apple fans and Mac users are not flipping out at every single perceived slight. What they are angry about is the level of ignorance and the shoddy journalism practiced by those who bet the farm on Microsoft and dismiss Apple out of hand, yet still expect to be taken seriously as tech pundits.

Mar 18, 08 - 10:42 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

To get all fired up about a guy like Enderle or Dvorak just plays into their hands. If you don't realize by now that they're baiting you into a frenzy then you need to take a closer look at their writing styles.

I think the bad mail that Uncle Walt gets might be a lot of people saying to themselves "You're such a smart Mac guy, why the hell don't you understand this little detail?" or some such justification. I mean, the guy has a job to do, and since Apple isn't paying him (that we know of) to do it he has to be objective.

Mar 18, 08 - 10:49 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ His Shadow

SO true.

It's not just tech writers, the same goes for most of the mainstream media as well. They're more concerned with expressing their opinions and pushing their own agenda than they are with getting the facts correct in their stories.

ChrissyOne

Let us all know when you're perfect and get every detail regarding every job you do absolutely right!

That's the problem with Macheads - they expect perfection from others when they can't even achieve that level of perfection themselves though they may be believe they somehow operate at a higher level (that wouldn't be true). Macs are flawed just like PC's. They may be better than PC's but the difference between a great product and a good one are often slihght.

And just so you know - to be human is to be subjective. Everyone has an opinion and a perspective so 100% objectivity is simply not realistic. There are good journalists and there's bad ones and some just write for effect, even if they're good.

Mar 18, 08 - 11:17 am Comment from: Buster

'According to Manjoo, Apple fans "care little for honest opinion.'

Ya gotta love them generalizations eh?


@C1....I got a ROOMBA (brother gave it as an Xmas present). I rarely use it other than to impress the hell out of people. Makes me feel like George Jetson.

Mar 18, 08 - 11:19 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ toonie

What? I think you need to read more carefully. And lighten up.

Mar 18, 08 - 11:22 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Buster

We bought my mother-in-law one years ago, and she was crazy about it. I thought it was a great way to terrorize your cats, but I have hardwood floors so I didn't buy one. It's much more fun to chase them around with RC cars anyway.

Mar 18, 08 - 11:22 am Comment from: Buster

'That's the problem with Macheads - they expect perfection from others when they can't even achieve that level of perfection themselves though they may be believe they somehow operate at a higher level '


Geez another generalization. C'mon people, stop painting us all with the same brush. I have feelings you know...sniff

Mar 18, 08 - 11:23 am Comment from: Buster

@c1...I have hardwood floors and a yappy Bichon frise and a Portuguese water dog. Flick on the Roomba, crack open a cold Sleeman and let the games begin!

Why doesn't Salon ask why so many tech reporters/analysts, like John Devorak (who seems to have a change of heart recently), James McQuivey, Rob Enderle, Mike Elgan, etc. hate Apple and Apple fans so much?

Mar 18, 08 - 11:28 am Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Buster
"...a Portuguese water dog..."

Why am I picturing a lhasa apso floating in the sea with a trail of terrifying poisonous tantacles?

Sorry Chrissyone

I misread your comment though it applies to a many of the other comments on this page.

And if you think certain tech analysts/writers/reporters or whatever you want to call them don't receive receive hidden payments to talk up certain tech products and companies and/or talk down others, then you don't read the news.

MDN: and who butters your bread?

Mar 18, 08 - 11:45 am Comment from: Grifterus

I think Walt Mossberg is OK.

Mar 18, 08 - 11:48 am Comment from: Buster

@c1...nope...they are like a floating bundle of energy
http://www.bluegrace.com/pwdfaq.html

People don't get the point.

The whole point is, people want to kill off MSFT. That is job #1. Anything that delays that (less than stellar reporting about Apple) is very annoying.

Once MSFT is dead, we welcome another innovative company (or two, or three) to compete with Apple and truly bring good sporting competition into the tech market.

So let's keep our laser focus people!!!

Mar 18, 08 - 11:55 am Comment from: Ampar

To Buster: "Portuguese Water Dog"

For $1,400, you could get a loaded Mac mini and throw a black shag rug over it.

Mar 18, 08 - 11:58 am Comment from: Ampar

"a lhasa apso floating in the sea with a trail of terrifying poisonous tantacles"


You need to stop watching re-runs of Futurama right before bed.

Mar 18, 08 - 12:06 pm Comment from: Gandalf

If we are looking for accuracy in reporting lets take the statement that the emails have come from Apple Fans and the statement ,"Several Apple fans felt slighted". What evidence does the writer have for this? - I suggest little or none.

Did Magoo research his comment, follow up on the emails, interview the senders, see their array of Macs? Or did he just shortsightedly make an assumption? How many is several? Not many, surely less than ten, maybe just three or four. Was one of them toonie?

Really this is another example of shoddy reporting, set up a false premise and exploit it, apparently to the detriment of Apple.

Doctrine of Insufficient Adulation, surely that's a woman's disease, very widespread too

@ toonie, MDN: and who butters your bread? Have you not noticed the adverts? Observation not your strong suit?

Mar 18, 08 - 12:12 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ toonie

S'aright. It happens.

Mar 18, 08 - 12:13 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Buster

That's pretty frickin' cute.

The only tech "journalist" I can honestly say I hate is Mary Jo Foley.

I have never seen anyone so poorly researched or more clearly biased and yet still claim to be a journalist. Her assertions are almost always patently incorrect. Her bias always shines through her writing, and yet she states everything so plainly that one would almost think she believes her own BS.

The fact that she can remain gainfully employed is a testament to equal opportunity for the mentally handicapped.

Mar 18, 08 - 12:14 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Gandalf
"Doctrine of Insufficient Adulation, surely that's a woman's disease, very widespread too"

Are you saying I'm fat? Come on. You can tell me. I won't be mad.

Mar 18, 08 - 12:17 pm Comment from: KingMel

Part of this is the natural reaction of the person who has fought the 'good fight' for years against the mainstream and doomsayers. Recall that Apple is only a couple of years divorced from being tagged 'beleaguered' by the press.

A person's level of frustration tends to grow after fighting the considerable number of obstinate and ignorant Windows users who were not content to laud their own choice of computer, but felt compelled to deride my own. Nonetheless, Mac users who succumb to the temptation of becoming radically and aggressively supportive of Macs are actually doing harm.

Mar 18, 08 - 12:18 pm Comment from: Micro Me

Manjoo has a point; I often wince at the rabid reactions of fellow Mac users to criticisms of Apple products. And MDN has been guilty of unnecessarily taking Uncle Walt to task over some trivial disagreement over a feature in an Apple product in an otherwise favourable review.

However, as other posters have noted, Manjoo's article contains a number of foolish generalisations about Mac users, and fails to mention the sloppy and biased reporting of too many of his colleagues.

Mar 18, 08 - 12:20 pm Comment from: Roberto

Farhad Manjoo: I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse.

Mar 18, 08 - 12:21 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

His Shadow...
You're SO RiGHT!

It's the sheer ignorance of some of these "reporters" that's so galling. If they have a reasoned argument why they don't like such and such a feature, I respect that. If they spout off without knowing the facts, I'll react.

Or like the PeeSea dweebs who "hate" Macs having never used one.

Mar 18, 08 - 12:26 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

@ Chris

I think Mary Jo is directly employed by MS, no?