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May 30, 08 - 12:07 pm Comment from: BiZarRo BaLlmEr

GPS should be but won't be there.

*shuffles to edge of limb*

There's no reason now why it shouldn't. Didn't someone just release a combo wifi/gps chip that uses power efficiently?

GPS is honey for big brother, I could do without that!

@CrabApple
Darn ! The NSA will be devastated that you're not falling for their trick. *Now* how will the track you ? Probably thousands of employees will be laid off.

May 30, 08 - 12:17 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

Crabapple:
They already know your approximate location. GPS will only provide with exact location. Not much deference as far as Big Brother goes.

I see no need for GPS at this point for me as google maps is good enough for that three times a year I need directions, but if it is included, please offer the option to turn it off so it doesn't drain the battery.

It still needs to use more power and the additional antennas to get a fix. So, it'll either be power-hungry and bulky, or it'll work lousy. Do you think Steve wants either of those two?

May 30, 08 - 12:21 pm Comment from: Ampar

To Derelict:

Here are some plausible possibilities on chips:
http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2008/04/08/apple-the-3g-iphone-teardown-version-09/?mod=BOLBlog

Purchase the best 3rd party external add on GPS for your needs if you desperately have to have GPS. Otherwise, don't expect it to be added in version 2 unless Apple has written a superior, more intuitive app to run on the battery draining GPS chip. I won't hold my breath and AAPL will go down and I can see the headlines when, not if, GPS is ignored in version 2. Instead, we may see improvements and therefore emphasis upon the already existing triangulation non battery sucking solution it houses already.
Go ahead and write the poop non-GPS headlines. You heard it here first, folks. I hope I'm wrong, but common sense says I may be correct.

May 30, 08 - 12:24 pm Comment from: jfort

I use an external BT GPSr with TomTom Navigator, with a GPS program (GeoNiche) and other Palm software (by GPS Pilot) on a Treo. Use it all the time. If iPhone 2 doesn't have its own GPSr, I hope it will at least accommodate something like what I do.

GPS is over rated in a phone. Do I really want more people out there trying to look at a 3in screen driving instead of keeping their eyes on the road?

Certainly not Me!

GPS who care. Decent phone that actually works like a phone, and the best mobile internet connectivity available. Next people will want a Swiss Knife integrated as a life saving device, when they get lost and can't figure out how to use the GPS features, because they left their manual at home and never read it in the first place.

But call my cynical.

May 30, 08 - 12:38 pm Comment from: January 24, 1984

I'd love GPS in the iPhone. It'd be a great backup for my airplane navigation system, and on my boat.

My preference would be a turn on/turn off option. The cell-based locator is pretty weak. Not reliable.

May 30, 08 - 12:39 pm Comment from: Bunsen Honeydew

I'm in a small class of iPhone users/owners and geocacher. I'd love to be able to use my iPhone for geocaching too. Not much mass appeal for that though. It's currently available on a Nokia (antiquated phone).

May 30, 08 - 12:46 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

Lots of GPS models have blue tooth connectivity. Simply enable what is already their. That would be the best thing to do.

It all depends on whether it has GPS or not. As fanbois, we don't think, if Steve says it has a GPS then we need it. However, if Steve tells us that is doesn't have GPS, then we don't need it....

I don't know any other way a fanboi could possibly answer. I know that whatever Steve says to buy is the best and I'm buying, regardless of the price, features, and quality. Period....

May 30, 08 - 12:48 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

Spoken like a true Fan-Boi

HELL YES it needs GPS! Current technology fails me constantly!

Dunno.

I drive for a living, and the cell/wi-fi triangulation has worked quite well for me.

Honestly?
If you need directions down to the last ten feet, you're too stupid to be on the road.

May 30, 08 - 01:04 pm Comment from: jtc

I just use google maps because it's free and it works very well actually. Some spots not so much but for what it is... you cant beat it. Putting in GPS will probably be another $10 a month addon like it is with my blackberry.

May 30, 08 - 01:09 pm Comment from: CYxodus

GPS would be a nice feature to have and by having it in an iPhone, means that I won't have to worry about the GPS in my car being stolen.

CYxodus;

No, it just means that, like me, you'll have a gun shoved in your face and have it taken from your person.

I thought GPS was going to be required by law in the US within the next couple of years for 911 dispatch purposes. Is this not the case?

I personally don't want GPS in my iPhone... the Google maps and location assist works well enough, and I get great battery life. Already the 3G service is going to eat battery life... I'd prefer not to have the GPS eating it also. I get 2 full days between charges with heavy use right now... If I really need/want GPS, a separate device would be fine. Or a map. Oh, wait, I have that already.

im pretty sure it has gps. my dad is a digital electronics tech at att and he got a company wide email that was talking about the next gen iphone. He said it said something about gps and a much better camera.

I also think GPS should be something you can turn on/off. I mean, iphones already transmit a cell signal for the towers, a wifi signal, a bluetooth signal, and now they might add a GPS signal? That's an awful lot of microwave radiation to be putting next to my body/head. Maybe I need to go out and buy some lead lines clothes.

Arik seems to have it wrong.

AT&T;'s network has software to determine your position based upon cell tower triangulation. It uses this for the government-mandated E911 support. AT&T;sends this information to the iPhone, which then also does some triangulation based on any WiFi routers it can find in order to come up with a more accurate location. AT&T;'s system, alone, is accurate to around 150 feet.

Other cell-phones have GPS mostly because other carriers, rather than doing triangulation to support E911, basically went to the cell-phone companies and said, "Change your phones to support E911 or we won't sell your phone." So the only way for the phone to know it's location is GPS.

Where GPS beats cell-tower triangulation is in tracking applications. Cell-tower triangulation isn't efficient for always-on applications. If I want my iPhone to continuously know my position and warn me when I need to turn, a GPS is far more energy efficient than using the cellular radios to call AT&T;every second.

On the other hand, cell-tower triangulation is much faster than a "cold start" of a GPS. If your GPS is turned off, it can take 30 seconds to a minute to sync itself up to the GPS satellites. So for the current iPhone "off-and-on" system, a GPS would probably be less efficient.

"I mean, iphones already transmit a cell signal for the towers, a wifi signal, a bluetooth signal, and now they might add a GPS signal?"

GPS receivers are like the radio receivers in your car. They don't transmit.

May 30, 08 - 01:53 pm Comment from: NeverFade

"Does Apple’s next-gen iPhone need GPS?"

In order for me to buy it, it does...

May 30, 08 - 01:59 pm Comment from: TowerTone

"Does Apple’s next-gen iPhone need GPS?"

I think it needs all 26 letters.
But that's just me....

Here is the way I see it. Apple already realizes that people want to know exactly where they are at with the google maps application. So they added cell tower triangulation for a temporary fix, but they know that they need something more for the second generation. (not to mention the bold has it... so the iphone will)

While we are at it can we add a heart rate monitor. This along with a GPS ads many features for the athlete. Speed, Distance, Averages, Training logs, Calorie and much more. (See garmin's 305 ) Than I would not need my Garmin and iPhone when training.

For what its worth:
I don't See GPS as a necessity for the iphone. Of all the features a phone could have i would vote for longer usable battery life or maybe ichatAV. or how bout something simple like an SD card slot? don't get me wrong ... I like the idea of a consolidated device but at what cost? Gps features could easily be added to any iphone through the use of a Bluetooth GPS device like this one https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=139&pID=10901 in this way you can get a superior GPS receiver AND have all the fun toys that Iphone has to offer. Besides all this when i try to navigate in the car with my garmin 60cs Handheld the unit often loses the satellites if my sun roof is not open ... id much rather have a nice little device i can through up on the dash with a link back to the phone ... so i can have the phone in a convenient position while im driving ... and NOT have to worry about GPS reception.

o.. and not to mention cell tower triangulation is pretty faulty. I live in maumelle arkansas (YES ARKANSAS its a real state). The town is close to the arkansas river, but its a couple of miles from here.. but according to my iphone I am swimming in the river.

@Brock

Cell Phone Triangulation has been around for YEARS through at&t;even before they were cingular. they implemented in as a Buddy list type feature where you could request the location of your buddy (if you had there permission to do so) it was more accurate in Urban area and less accurate in rural areas ... but it got the job done. Of course back then we didn't have google maps so you location was sent out as being near a particular intersection. back then this was pretty cool (gas was cheap, and text messaging was FREE)... but nowhere near as cool as the current implementation on the iphone.

i agree... I think its a cool technology but it doesn't meet todays standards. I like att and love apple but I would like to have gps. I know Arkansas is a rural state but maumelle 10 minutes outside of the capital little rock so its not like I live in the woods. Im sure the 2nd gen iphone will have the gps though... I can't imagine apple not including it.

May 30, 08 - 02:30 pm Comment from: art

I like the Swiss Army knife comparison. But I would like to see GPS on the iPhone. I like to carry around as few items as possible. I do travel quite a bit and would like to have one device that does it all.

The iPhone is nice because it already combined the ipod and phone and a great web browser. I like the idea of having it all with me because I always carry my cellphone but may not always carry an ipod or GPS device.

I do like Google Maps but would like to see it incorporate either a built in GPS receiver or a bluetooth receiver similar to Google Earth.

It is very cute to hear people talk about GPS like its only use is for turn by turn directions. I agree it would not safe to use GPS on an iPhone in the car, but neither is doing anything else on an iPhone all that safe while driving. I would probably use it occasionally for directions, but more often for the Geo tagging possibilities. Finding new restaurants, shops, friends, in your present area is more interesting.

May 30, 08 - 03:03 pm Comment from: TowerTone

brock
I just went by the Promenade at Chenal or whatever, and it looks like the whole place has another 2 months before opening (other than the Imax Theater...or is that 'iMax'?) I was hoping the Apple Store would be open by mid June. Have you heard anything?

The reason why Apple should put GPS in the iPhone comes down to this...take a look at the top 25 in electronics on Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/electronics//ref=sv_etk_ce_av__1

Consistently, GPS units rank higher than the iPods. The GPS units on top of the list range from $200-300 and pretty much suck as compared to what *could* be done with the iPhone.

For those thinking cell/wifi triangulation is "good enough", sorry, but it isn't when you're trying to drive to specific addresses or trying to navigate via boat or someplace where cell/wifi isn't available at all or enough to triangulate.

I have GPS built into my car, and handhelds that I use for boating and other things. Having GPS in my iPhone is something that I would pay a ton of money for beyond the current price of the iPhone.

May 30, 08 - 03:21 pm Comment from: Sixvodkas

it is very cute to hear that anyone believes GPS is required for geotagging.

As a matter of fact, there's this super-secret-stealth app out there (called Google Earth, for those of you too new to the web to have heard of it), that offers this capability WITHOUT GPS.

Mac-nugget wrote:

"Crabapple:
They already know your approximate location. GPS will only provide with exact location. Not much deference as far as Big Brother goes."

GPS only provides an accurate position to the receiver, there is absolutely no way to track someone carrying a GPS.

---

the iPhone is the ideal phone for Google Earth (that would be a first), because it combines a good processor, lot's of storage, the accelerometers, and a GPS.

@ mrboma

a GPS does not emit anything, it's a receiver.

the satellites have a very very accurate clock, and all they do is send the current time.

the GPS has a similar (but much smaller) clock, it calculates the position of the satellites, and uses the time delay to determine it's distance from each satellite.

the satellite doesn't "know" the GPS receiver at all.

just like FM radio receivers are not detected by radio stations.
saying that GPS allows the NSA to track us is like saying that TV stations can see you when u watch TV

May 30, 08 - 08:59 pm Comment from: Sixvodkas

Macslut;

I drive for a living.
My entire paycheck depends on my ability to be at a specific address, being there at the specific time that I said I'd "be there", and I can't begin to stress how strongly I disagree with you.

Triangulation puts you within 150 feet of your intended destination (for those of you too dense to equate "feet per address", it's roughly TWO WHOLE HOUSES from your destination, and if you're TOO STUPID to see your destination from 150 feet away, you're TOO STUPID to possess a valid drivers license.

And for the Goddesses sake?

If you're on a lake, and you're telling me that you can't see your destination when you're 150 feet from it? You're grossly incompetent, grossly negligent, and you ought to surrender your license to the nearest old folks home.

May 30, 08 - 10:56 pm Comment from: bobchr

2 Years ago I bought a Motorola Q with a Street Atlats program and a blue tooth base GPS receiver that linked to the Q and tracked you progress on the map which came on a 2GIG mini SD chip. I still have the bluetooth GPS receiver. Maybe I should download SDK 2 for the Iphione and write an application to tie it to Google maps. That should shut up the lot a ya!!! Not to mention it would be pretty usefull to me too.

May 30, 08 - 11:04 pm Comment from: bobchr

I do a few runs a year to upper Eastern PA near the Delaware river valley. No Cell sites up there to speak of, from any carrier and wifi on the farms are hard to come by. A bloototh link to a GPS receiver would be perfect to fill in the gaps when you're cruising the continental divide or trawling across I94 in North Dakota.

May 30, 08 - 11:09 pm Comment from: NCIceman

It's worth adding to the phone. I look forward to my iPhone acting as my navigation system as well....sorry, Garmin.

@Sixvodkas

what about people that DON'T drive cars ?

who cares that u drive for a living (sounds really sad by the way), could u show some more respect ?

u are driving for a living, without a GPS ?

u are wrong anyway, using GPS antenna's to pinpoint your location will only work, well, when there are antennas !

not when a GPS is really interesting, like a walk in the mountains.

or in a train, boat or plane.

you also missed the point he was making.

when u use geolocation for navigation, the lack of precision is not just a problem when u are at your destination, but every time u take a road that is within the margin of error from another road, the software gets lost, and takes at least 30 seconds to a minute to fall back on it's feat.

I don't know much about GPS chips and power usage, but it seems that when you are not using an app that specifically needs it, you aren't using it at all.

@Peter
" GPS receivers are like the radio receivers in your car. They don't transmit."

So for many uses, it would just be a short blip to get your current location.

The real power is when there are good quality downloadable maps on the AppStore.

It would be great to have detailed maps on the phone rather than relying on Google Maps and network connection all the time.

May 31, 08 - 10:14 pm Comment from: TowerTone

It would be great to have large files like maps on your .Mac (.Matrix?) account, accessed by 3G or Wi-Fi, to aid in GPS mapping.

The Google Maps are good, but I get many inaccuracies and notifications that a route can't be found or my current location can't be found, even though I am in a city. Annoying.