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Well, at least somebody in the mainstream media finally noticed. Took em long enough...

Feb 27, 09 - 10:47 am Comment from: Ouate de Phoque

NOW that Microsoft has started copying Apple, the stock is tanking......Grrrrrr

/sarc

Feb 27, 09 - 10:50 am Comment from: rahrens

Dang, forgot to log in, but that first comment was me, and I always forget which version I use to log in with, with or without the middle initial.

But, hey, we DO want that little fact noticed, don't we? That M$ is copying Apple? Just maybe that'll be the first crack in the media's solid wall of not questioning M$'s public face.

Feb 27, 09 - 10:51 am Comment from: rahrens

It's not tanking, it's just going on sale! Gotta transfer some cash to my Scottrade account...

I hate it when other peoples blinding flash of the obvious cause us aneurisms.

"Started."

LOL.

MS has been copying Apple since Day 1. But it makes no difference who copied what, it's the implementation that counts.

What Balmy meant to say is that MS had started to admit publicly that they copy Apple. I guess he's too busy hurling office furniture to speak precisely.

Why doesn't MDN have a button to quickly share a story to facebook?

Feb 27, 09 - 11:29 am Comment from: Zune Tang®

Hey MAC sheep, you're reading too much into this simple statement. First, Microsoft hasn't started to copy MAC. They haven't in the past and now is no time to start unless Microsoft wants to make proprietary toy computers for a teeny tiny market segment of smug and pretentious cultists. The only thing Microsoft is copying from MAC is no longer going to MAC World. Oh wait, MAC copied that from Microsoft. Whatever.

You can count on Microsoft to innovate their way out of this economic turmoil as they have in the past—with great products consumers demand and expect from a leader.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Feb 27, 09 - 11:31 am Comment from: HMCIV

On a geologic timescale, really did start their copying only recently.

"STARTED???!!!"
Those guys were in a bunker since WWII... Can some body update them so they don't look so stupid?

@Zune Tang... lol good to know how uninformed MS followers are. Learn a little history of Jobs/Gates and you might learn something. Next thing you will tell us is Window 7 looks nothing like OS X? MS stores will look nothing like Apple stores? Sorry your so bitter just finding out what the rest of the world has known for years. MS has copied more idea's then it's ever come up with on it's own.

Gates was just smart enough to hide it, Balmy is an idiot and it shows every time he opens his mouth.

Feb 27, 09 - 11:46 am Comment from: Mac-nugget

MS Business has always, and I mean always been attempting to emulate Apple in an open hardware environment, with very close standards. This strategy is finally looking grim, particularly with the smart phone market.

i proudly take the honor - as a long term mdn user - to inform JD that zune tang is just kidding. he is the CSO* of this board. relax and enjoy.

*(Chief Sarcasm Officer)

Feb 27, 09 - 11:50 am Comment from: Uncle Al

Way to go, ZT, hooked another one. There surely are a lot of fish in that barrel.

Feb 27, 09 - 11:53 am Comment from: Timbo

Dang that Zune Tang!

Zune Tang's secret is sincerity. He really sounds sincere.
And as Cronkite used to say, "If you can fake that, . . . you've got it made."

Feb 27, 09 - 12:04 pm Comment from: LordRobin

Zune Tang's schtick ceased to be funny over a year ago. Right now, I just keep praying he'll go away. Or die.

------RM

Feb 27, 09 - 12:08 pm Comment from: DLMeyer

Berrylium got it right ... it was BALLMER who said "started". We have all chuckled at Monkey Boy's antics in the past, so let's not blame the "journalist" for this ... mistake. OK, he quoted it without note, without comment, as if it were a reasonable face of the world as it is. But, we ALL know that MS and Apple (mostly MS, I believe) have been copying each other (and, later, Linux) since day one of the Lisa.
ZT, a little weak this time out! I know, it can be rough coming up with winners on a regular basis. But, we know you can do it. Keep going for it! Love your posts.

so you mean there is a man/boy who dedicates his life to writing sarcastic messages (not sarcastic, just deliberately dishonest) pretending to be Paul Thurrott... day in day out, on every single MDN thread?

Really?

And this is supposed to make me laugh, right? Why do I feel like crying..?

That would be "aneurysms".

Feb 27, 09 - 12:32 pm Comment from: Jubei

Believe it or not, most Windows IT still believes that Microsoft has never copied Apple. They also believe that Microsoft saved Apple from bankruptcy and some even believe they own part of Apple with that shares deal a decade ago. The super older Windows IT folks still believe Appletalk is chatty and still being used. LOL

I think it's interesting that the ads say "photocopiers" instead of "xerox" (which americans use as a synonym for photostatic copy).

Probably because Apple copied Xerox before Microsoft copied them, and it would give Microsoft an easy retort.

Feb 27, 09 - 01:00 pm Comment from: Big Als MBP

Microsoft didn't always copy Apple. MS-DOS was copied from someone else.

So was Word and Multi-Plan/Excel.

Let's set the record straight here.

Feb 27, 09 - 01:05 pm Comment from: Ampar

The NEW! Microsoft Innovation Engine.

Feb 27, 09 - 01:12 pm Comment from: Ampar

"Probably because Apple copied Xerox before Microsoft copied them, and it would give Microsoft an easy retort."

Check your history again, Saldin.

"Adele Goldberg, who had been a researcher at the PARC at that time, already suspected that Jobs’ visit would entail extensive consequences: “He came back, and I almost said ‘asked’ but the truth is ‘demanded,’ that his entire programming team get a demo of the Smalltalk System, and the then head of the science center asked me to give the demo because Steve specifically asked for me to give the demo, and I said ‘no way.’ I had a big argument with these Xerox executives, telling them that they were about to give away the kitchen sink, and I said that I would only do it if I were ordered to do it, cause then, of course, it would be their responsibility, and that’s what they did.”

Apple bought access to the PARC by means of a stock deal that seemed lucrative to the Xerox managers on the East Coast: They might buy 100,000 Apple stocks for one million dollars. Holding this admission ticket in the hand, Steve Jobs, Apple’s president Mike Scott, Bill Atkinson, and a number of members of the developing team marched up. “I think mostly … what we got in that hour and a half was inspiration and just sort of basically a bolstering of our convictions that a more graphical way to do things would make this business computer more accessible.”

http://www.mac-history.net/computer-history/2008-10-30/rich-neighbor-with-open-doors-apple-and-xerox-parc

Feb 27, 09 - 01:14 pm Comment from: Cascadians

"Let's do the time warp again."

MDN...your takes are absolutely hilarious! ROFL

Aneurysms. Not aneurisms.

Feb 27, 09 - 01:30 pm Comment from: CourtJester

Whatever it is your taking ZT send some to Balmer. He needs to be as amazingly optimistic as you are

Feb 27, 09 - 01:39 pm Comment from: Ampar

"Aneurysms. Not aneurisms."


And definitely not hylozoism, zoomorphism, pansexualism or eudaemonism.

Saldin — the New Zune Tang,

More reading for you.

http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_horn1.html
http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_raskin.html
http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_horn2.html

http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=On_Xerox,_Apple_and_Progress.txt&sortOrder=Sort by Date&detail=medium

Feb 27, 09 - 01:44 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

@Saldin

I think it's interesting that the ads say "photocopiers" instead of "xerox"

The word xerox is trademarked and can't be used without paying for the privilege. You knew that.

Apple copies features with technical merit from Windows for the sake of platform parity and not because they're out of ideas. Microsoft copies Apple because they have no choice.

@G4Dualie: "Apple copies features with technical merit from Windows for the sake of platform parity and not because they're out of ideas. Microsoft copies Apple because they have no choice."

That was very elegantly said, and soooo true. Bravo!

@Hint Hammer

No need for comparison with ZuneTang who only does it for comedy effect and stirring up the people. I'm very serious with the comment and the posts you sent also validate my point:

1) It all started with a visit to PARC where the Apple guys build a new system from what they could remember from the demo. Kudos to them because they were only shown a front-end and only with those memories they built the future of computing. Compare to Microsoft who was given Apple's internal secrets.

2) It's deeply ingrained in the minds of the people that Apple lifted the ideas from Xerox. Indeed they did (from #1) but only the basic concept, but it doesn't matter.

Again I say it: If Apple's banner originally read "xerox" instead of "photocopiers" they would've shoot themselves in the foot.
And because they're Apple, they didn't. No one else finds it interesting?

Hey Zune Tang where you been? I missed the citric acid fixes. Don't you go away now. I'll be looking out for you.
btw: MS has had MS for years. Bill HAD to retire. His hands got so shaky, every time he went for a piss, he came on his shoes. That is the real reason Seinfeld usually meets him in shoe shops.
Now you know.

Your sobs? Our jobs!

Feb 27, 09 - 02:06 pm Comment from: Ampar

Saldin:

You're missing the point.

"It's deeply ingrained in the minds of the people that Apple lifted the ideas from Xerox. Indeed they did (from #1) but only the basic concept, but it doesn't matter."

Lifted implies stolen. There was no theft. Xerox was paid in Apple stock and the visit had Xerox management approval.

Stop the FUD.

@Ampar:

So you guarantee me that everyone in the whole world knows the true story? That no people whatsoever holds mistaken beliefs?

Congrats to you for knowing your history. What about the rest of the world? Ask any regular Windows user who's only source of information on that piece of history is a scene from "The Pirates of Silicon Valley".

You don't like the way things are? Fine, but don't call FUD.

Feb 27, 09 - 02:34 pm Comment from: Ampar

Saldin:

I said "you're missing the point." I was correcting you. Not the entire freaking planet.

You. Check your reading comprehension. Sheesh.

IT IS FUD - COMING FROM YOU. HERE:

Comment from: Saldin Feb 27, 09 - 12:59 pm

"Indeed they did (from #1) but only the basic concept, but it doesn't matter."

@Ampar:

Wrap this around your head: Apple paid Xerox for the visit, not for the consequences. The ideas they showed would be popularized by Apple and not by them.

Sounds like the Microsoft-Apple deal, right? Microsoft stole ideas and concepts from Apple. Apple, on the other hand, was sparked by that visit. Think about it this way: There's a Palm Pre because of Apple's iPhone and not the other way around.

Again, it's not FUD.

Feb 27, 09 - 02:53 pm Comment from: Ampar

"Wrap this around your head: Apple paid Xerox for the visit, not for the consequences."

What an absolutely ridiculous, rubbish filled statement.

And you still missed the point. Whatever, dude.

I think it doesn't matter matter if a concept is copied or original. There are many new ideas and inventions that were created by influence of others. To say that Apple copied Xerox is like saying that Xerox copied IBM because the IBM had a keyboard or a screen before. You will realise that in the end, every inventor has taken ideas from someone or something else.

In innovation, what really matters is the idea and if you copy it, try and make it better. If indeed Apple copied Xerox, they made the copy better, much better. Micr$oft copies, and despite it copies something good, the implementation is done all wrong (w95 Vs. System 7, IE Vs. Netscape ...).

That's the shame on Microsoft.

I.e.: Zune Tang® copies shamely on Mac fans

@LordRobin

Wishing for someone's death, whether stated in jest or sincerely, is extremely uncool...

Watch out for karma, my friend...

Hah! They've been furiously busy copying the Mac probably since before Andrew Morse was crawling around in diapers.

Feb 27, 09 - 04:50 pm Comment from: neomonkey

The super older Windows IT folks still believe Appletalk is chatty and still being used.

It IS "chatty" and it IS still being used. What's your point?

@Ampar & Saladin
What you're both saying on this thread is,
"No, my penis is bigger."

Feb 27, 09 - 05:16 pm Comment from: ken1w

The day Microsoft realizes that it cannot rely on their Windows and Office cash cows forever to subsidize the rest of their business will be the day Microsoft beings its own recover. Unfortunately for them, that day has not come; it probably won't come until Steve Balmer is no longer CEO.

Zung Tangs stuff is getting a little stale. He's gotta update a bit. Kinda the same ole same ole..maybe hes waiting for Windoze 7 to come up with some new material...

Copying Apple will not help with the netbook problem and Windows 7 probably won't either. Rumor has it that the only reason Linux isn't running on 100% of those netbooks is because copies of Windows XP are practically being given away to the manufacturers. Now giving away an old OS that has already earned great profits is one thing but can Microsoft think different enough to forgo profits on Windows 7?

Feb 27, 09 - 05:57 pm Comment from: Road Warrior

Wow, saying Minimescum is copying Apple by opening up a retail store...you would think that there are only two retail stores out there.

Now Apple may have used and implemented some of the ideas from XEROX Parc, but hey they certainly did not copy something that was on the market, like the mouse.

Now Microscum going from DOS to Windows, well that is a different story.

Funny speaking about copying, anyone notice when Zune Thang makes a post there usually is a non registered handle that shows up soon after that attempts to explain Zune Thangs actions...

Like ralph from berlin who says:

"i proudly take the honor - as a long term mdn user - to inform JD that zune tang is just kidding. he is the CSO* of this board. relax and enjoy.

*(Chief Sarcasm Officer)"

Gee ralph, if you are a long term mdn user, why don't you have a registered handle? Not a biggie but more to the point, what is the source of your information to say that "zune tang is just kidding"? As a long term mdn user (registered) I have never seen zune tang say that he was just kidding. And just who exactly elected/nominated/proclaimed that he is the CSO of the board?

And Zune Tang you are confusing the law of demand and supply with the law of supply and demand. MS demands that consumers want what they supply, a great law for convicted monopolists provided there is no competition.

Macs may have a tiny market for their computers, but it is vastly huge compared to the computers that Microscum makes. Actually MS doesn't make computers, unless you include their toy XBox.

Feb 27, 09 - 08:01 pm Comment from: Lomoco

@Zune Tang®
I know you're a troll, but I simply can't resist:

You mean: "Your frustration, Our Fault."


...and because I also can't resist, here's what I WOULD have told if you you WEREN'T a troll: Please get off the internet. Now. You really don't deserve to be on it. Go away. Shoo.



Nice one. That'll cook some brains. >:D *pats troll on head*