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I'll take the unpopular position on this thread and say this is nonsense. Though I can't stand M$ or its products, they should be able to charge whatever they want for access to their intellectual property (IP). It may be crappy IP--it is--and the folks who pay for it may be fools--they are--but we're all better off letting fools give away their money until Apple (or someone else) persuades IT and other purchasers to switch. This is not why I pay my tax dollars. SJ said it well when he pointed out that Apple lost to M$ in the early '90s when Apple stopped innovating. Now that Apple is innovating again, Macs are steadily gaining market share.
'Nuff said.

Feb 27, 08 - 10:22 am Comment from: GizmoDan

OUCH!!!

And here Microsoft thought they could get out of this by issuing the statement of openness last week. Talk is cheap!

Feb 27, 08 - 10:31 am Comment from: Jubei

Umm thats nothing to MS. Fines are "fine" with them. They would rather pay them off than submit to real game changing business models. All it does is take some cash out of their pocket temporarily. With a Government approved monopoly, MS will just regenerate this temporarily lost on the back of MS drones and petrified IT managers who don't want to lose their guaranteed high pay if MS lost its monopolistic power.

Feb 27, 08 - 10:31 am Comment from: Ampar

"I'll take the unpopular position on this thread and say this is nonsense."

I hope you wore fire retardant undergarments today.


Here's a WMD. Windows. Must. Die.

@Ampar

Yes! Yes! Yes! I hope your kind of W.M.D. proves real, unlike the other kind.

Feb 27, 08 - 10:36 am Comment from: Jay-Z

It's one thing to gain a monopoly through innovation and mutually beneficial arrangements (like Apple's iPod – which benefits Apple, consumers, and partners); it's another to abuse a monopoly to gouge partners because they have no choice (which, in reality, many people and developers don't). Microsoft has abused its monopoly for two decades and it's nice to see someone finally taking action against them after the impotent Justice Department failed to stop them 10 years ago.

I believe in capitalism and the free market, but Microsoft has illegally leveraged its monopoly too many times to count.

Feb 27, 08 - 10:37 am Comment from: Spark

@Jake
Well, even if the view is unpopular I am in agreement with you. It seems like all you hear from programmers is how many more tools and API MS has for development. There seems to be no dearth of software running on Windows...even if much of it is junk. I would like to know what the EU does with money it collects in fines. Do they have a process to distribute the $1.3B to all the companies they think have been harmed by MS?

If you remember, . . . MS was actually convicted of anti-trust violations in the American courts, but the Bush White House took office during the appeal process, and with their pro-business bent, let them off the hook for their fines. . . . But they were actually convicted, and consequently they are given extra scrutiny by the courts whenever they are accused of legal wrong doings. This was just re-affirmed recently, and the extra scrutiny policy was officially extended for an additional five years. That's probably why MS has been so bashful about their strong arm methods in recent years. It's also probably they recently made this remarkable statement that they were going to be more open, . . . in order to preempt the bad publicity about this EU finding.

Feb 27, 08 - 10:45 am Comment from: Tiger Leopard

How come Zune Tang hasn't commented on this article?

Feb 27, 08 - 10:52 am Comment from: Buster

"How come Zune Tang hasn't commented on this article?"

Because his Automator script got scrambled. You know the one he uses which automatically writes the terms, MAC fanboi's, crappy Apple, superior Windows, innovative Zune, Your Potential Our Passion, yada yada.

He will be back up and running the moment he re-writes the script.
Thank you for your patience!

Feb 27, 08 - 10:55 am Comment from: flappo

oh poor ms

i feel so

no i don't

BWAHAHAHA

Feb 27, 08 - 10:57 am Comment from: jonahan

First of all they are now in compliance as of Oct 2007. This fine is for the time from 2004 when the court ruled until Oct 07 when they were not in compliance. Now .. how are they gonna try to buy Yahoo? :D

"Demanded they pay"... wonder how much Micro$oft has actually paid out in hard cash. I'm assuming it's nothing... ???

HA, HA.

Feb 27, 08 - 11:10 am Comment from: Jubei

"How come Zune Tang hasn't commented on this article?"

He's busy trying to work out his frustrations with X-Box Live working like a pos. LOL

Feb 27, 08 - 11:12 am Comment from: DLMeyer

I'm with Jake and company on this.
Maybe for a different reason.
Apple does many of the same things as M$, if less blatantly and to many fewer people.
I believe that THIS is not one of those "things", but I've seen M$ lose in court before and wondered when they would get around to Apple for the same things. M$ needs to make its money now (grab YOUR money now?) while it can - it's losing its stand as "the only business in town". (alleluya) These sorts of activities make it no friends and only help convince coders to consider switching ... we need them, too.
<nomex>Dave</nomex>

I also believe in free enterprise and free markets. I am also no fan of MS. I also believe the eurocrats are big-government-for-big-government's-sake focused and misguided in this decision. And the cash received will only go in their own coffers and not to people / companies adversely affected. However, I also believe this decision still languishes in the realm of mild wrist-slapping. If they were really serious about getting Microsoft's attention, they would immediately order the mass switching of all eurocratic agencies to Macs and use the MS fine to pay for it.

Funny how even MDN likes the 'communist', 'socialist' EU when they punish MS.

Feb 27, 08 - 11:28 am Comment from: Gandalf

Do they have a process to distribute the $1.3B to all the companies they think have been harmed by MS?

Just reducing the tax bill is as good recompense as is practically possible. The MS tax is a tax on everyone so everyone should get some recompense. People pay taxes not companies, they just charge their taxes to their customers - included in the price you pay.

Capitalism is not a free market, it takes from some and gives to others. There is no ideal system, there has to be a balance between control by business and control by people (not via our current politicians who are bought and paid for by business). Inevitably it is cyclical and any system must take account of that but by any standard there are many more victims of the capitalist system than there are beneficiaries.

PS look up "East India Company" for a previous example of rampant capitalism gone awry. Business will inevitably try to take over government and form corporatist states under all kinds of monikers and then we start getting close to Godwin's Law.

Microsoft is a criminal organization that has defrauded hundreds of millions of people, they should not be able to keep a single cent of their ill gotten gains.

What must be understood is the slight difference in market vision between USA and Europe. It is still a matter of making money, of course, but in Europe there is some reluctance to accept totally wild capitalism... Call it a "red" attitude, if you like, but money doesn't buy up law all around the world.

Feb 27, 08 - 11:29 am Comment from: Mr. Peabody

In the words of that kid from the Simpsons: "Hah hah!"

Feb 27, 08 - 11:30 am Comment from: Jay-Z

@ DLMeyer

"Apple does many of the same things as M$, if less blatantly and to many fewer people."

Care to elaborate?

Apple doesn't leverage its monopoly to stifle partners or eliminate competition. To say that Apple does the same thing as Microsoft is absolute f%*kery, plain and simple.

Feb 27, 08 - 11:33 am Comment from: shen

it is clear that a lot of people don't understand what abuse of monopoly power is.

no, Apple does not do the same thing, and no, it is not legal for them to charge whatever they want as a monopoly. Gandalf points out a good bit of history. some people should try to learn from it rather than show that know nothing about systems theory, economies, or power.....

Feb 27, 08 - 11:40 am Comment from: Zune Tang®

The one and only time Microsoft has ever copied Apple is in the area of overcharging and it appears it will cost them. Hey Redmond, let this be a lesson to you. I hope Microsoft thinks twice about implementing some of Apple's other ideas like proprietary computers, no support for games and one button phones which can't connect to Exchange servers.

It ain't broke, so don't fix it Microsoft. Keep doing what your doing until the morons in Cupertino have an answer for your marvelous, easy to use innovations and open technologies.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Wow--I've never seen a more confused posting in my entire life. Honestly, and I'm no spring chicken!
You seem to actually believe that "capitalism"=prop-corporations=free markets! Nothing could be further from the truth. The only real distinction is between letting markets (i.e., buyers & sellers) determine success and letting government coercion determine it. The examples you cite--corporations seeking "control" and the East India company--are ANTI-market, NOT pro-market. The East India company used a GOVERNMENT-GUARANTEED monopoly to beat out competitors, to the detriment of consumers. It didn't win its markets by beating out competitors--that's the whole d*mn point!!
And your bizarre definition of capitalism "it takes from some and gives to others" is actually a very precise definition of how GOVERNMENT works! When government doesn't favor some businesses over others, the only way that a business sells is when there is a willing buyer! You would be better off no longer using the word "capitalism"--it's not a real word, just an attempt to smear markets by the individual who came up with it (i.e., Karl Marx, look it up). Again, the issue is markets/freedom vs government/coercion. I won't even charge you for this little lesson!
Regards,
Jake

> "The fine comes less that a week after Microsoft said it would share more information about its products and technology in an effort to make it work better with rivals' software and meet the demands of antitrust regulators in Europe."

I guess the writing was on the wall, eh? MW: "hit."

@@Gandalf

I think the point is that even those engaged in free market activities (business people, let us say) are unwilling to adhere to a truly laissez faire, free market philosophy. Instead, they are all too willing to call in governmental power when they can use it to injure competitors or gain a competitive advantage (i.e., the East India Company). Thus, others (consumers, let us say) seek a countervailing use of governmental power to redress their grievances. In short, there is no such thing as a totally free market economy and there never will be. Most, if not all, people are incapable of being ideologically pure and consistent. We are all too willing to call in a tiger (government) to chase out a dog (corrupt business).

It sure is nice to see somebody enforcing laws and punishing Microsoft for illegal activities, isn't it? It's too bad that the U.S. let them off the hook with barely a slap on the wrist.

Riiiiight....... And if it was Apple getting fined then the EU would be the largest assembly of corrupt, socialist scumbags on earth (which is actually a fact). Why don't you try something less predictable, MDN? Your anti-Microsoft gibberish is sometimes so vivid that I can visualize you foaming at the mouth, and the spittle on your computer screen as you type.

And besides, this story has exactly what to do with "Mac Daily News"? This site not only loads slow, the "news" isn't even news.

Feb 27, 08 - 01:57 pm Comment from: Brau

I'd like see this trend extend toward breaking down the current ability of companies to leverage unending patents. Unduly long patents are very much stifling the natural course of development. Just because one company got to the market first doesn't mean nobody else ever thought of it.

@ PowerPC

"Riiiiight....... And if it was Apple getting fined then the EU would be the largest assembly of corrupt, socialist scumbags on earth (which is actually a fact)"

Fuck Off!

Feb 27, 08 - 04:55 pm Comment from: DLMeyer

OK, Jay-Z, a little elaboration couldn't hurt.
a) iPhone sales: one partner per country, locked in
b) OSX: not allowed to run on non-Apple hardware
c) iPhone programming: not (currently) allowed
d) pricing: all prices set by Apple, discounting will cost you

All the above based on, and in support of, Apple's monopoly on their products. iTunes and Safari are allowed on Windows - for FREE - because Apple wants it that way, to grow the iTunes Store and to impress potential switchers. There's no good reason Apple won't allow OSX on non-Apple hardware, as long as they are not asked to support the use. There's no reason Apple MUST break anything coded for the iPhone with each new update.
Oh ... and thanks for obliterating your (supposed) obscenity, which Rude Mac might well have done - but didn't.
Dave

The PC trolls can't resist!

And that dick dlmayer is as clueless as ever.

A monopoly is not created automatically when a company has a majority market share. A monopoly is created when that company illegally manipulates others (customers, competitors) in the market to gain or maintain their majority market share.
Like Micros**t has done over and over.

Quote, "Microsoft's actions have stifled innovation and affected millions of people around the world."

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Operative word: Illegally.

Canon controls its hardware and software. They set their prices and distributers are not allowed to even post discount pricing in advertising. BMW tightly controls 3rd party anything. The list could go on and on.

It's amazing that anyone still doesn't know why Apple won't allow OS X on non Apple hardware. Would BMW give you tech support for one of their engines transplanted into a Lotus Elise?

Get a freaking clue, there's a reason that Apple is top of the heap in customer service and satisfaction.

None of the above abc list constitutes a monopoly by any stretch of the legal imagination.

OSX hacked in non-Apple hardware is an issue for Apple because Apple is A HARDWARE COMPANY and loses sales on HARDWARE when someone does that.
Also, when a none-supported install of OSX suffers technical problems the user has no recourse from Apple, so Apple controls the 'whole widget' to prevent issues beyond its control.

Good grief people, what is the deal?! Why are we still talking about this??

You haven't figured this out?
How the frell is Apple (5%) abusing customers **illegally** next to Micros**t (95%) who routinely overcharges and puts competitors out of business by a constant stream of abusive business practices?????

there will come a time when we start to feel sorry for all the people laid off at msft

companies are just collections of people, it only takes a few people at the top to spoil it for everyone.

The EU will get bags and bags o' money, with 20% Real Pocket Lint ®.

The government allows you to pretty much go anywhere you please in your car.
BUT, you can't go (much) faster than the posted speed limits and run others off the road as you go.
That's reasonable.

Business is free to do as it pleases - within acceptable limits.
That's also reasonable.

btw DL: Apple has not prosecuted anyone for installing OS X on a PC as far as we know.
So the "monopoly" thing you have against them is not logical.
Apple is quite within its legal bounds to limit use of OS X.

Jake, not sure what ur smoking...

M$ never innovated, but ripped off Apple's UI. Apple has always innovated and M$ was always Shiite.

Check ur facts dude

Feb 27, 08 - 08:54 pm Comment from: Road Warrior

Actually Zune Thang provided some brilliant insight earlier in the "Apple’s iTunes Store now the 2nd largest U.S. music retailer; over four billion songs sold" thread that went along the lines of:

"Microsoft's wonderful Zune Marketplace doesn't use currency—they use points which is more fun than currency."

"Using money is boring."

"Points are FUN! It's like a game. In American football when you score a touchdown you are rewarded in POINTS, and it feels good. You aren't rewarded in dollars, francs or rupees. It wouldn't be as much fun. "

"You can't argue with Microsoft's findings: people would rather use points than actual money therefore points rule the day "

This is all part of the new standard of points that MS will follow (and of course expect everyone else to follow). That is why they are not worried about being fined, or losing their money, cause MS believes that the future is points. Soon thanks to Zune Thang evangelism all but the 3 Mac users will be using points instead of currency.

Zune Thang just wants us to wait for it.

Your wait. Our bullsh*t.™

Feb 27, 08 - 10:27 pm Comment from: ragarcia

DLMeyer, how about companies like

Bose
Bang and Oluffsen

that also do many of the things you say Apple does?

@Gandalf
@DLMeyer

You are both delusional.

Truly.

Feb 28, 08 - 06:54 am Comment from: flappo

i'd hardly call 5% market share a monopoly

apple control everything because they CAN

ms can't even make reliable hardware - look at the 360 and it's red rings of death !

and as for the crap they call software...

personally i'd LOVE ms to control both on the pc side - that way apple's market share would triple overnight

Feb 28, 08 - 05:40 pm Comment from: Jay-Z

@ DLMeyer:

a) Carrier-exclusive phones are nothing new. Apple needed partners for iPhone features like Visual Voicemail and iTunes Activation. And Apple doesn't seem to be doing much to break unlocked phones. This is nothing like leveraging a 90% monopoly to stifle competition.

b) Apple hardware/software systems have always been closed since the company's inception. It's not to freeze out competitors; it's so they maintain control of the user experience. OS X on third party hardware would be a support nightmare. Only dimwits who fail to grasp Apple's hardware/software model could see this as anything barely resembling what Microsoft has done.

c) Excuuuuuuuuse Apple for ensuring the security of a platform which has everyone watching it. This is absolutely nothing like leveraging a monopoly to stifle competitors. And Apple obviously has a plan to open the platform up.

d) Excuuuuuuuuse Apple for setting prices for it's own products. Furthermore, Macs are competitively priced compared to comparably equipped PCs. This point makes no sense.

I said it before and I'll say it again: f*&#xke;ry.