MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Aug 07, 08 - 05:43 pm Comment from: Macintosh

So Google is trying to be an Open-Source version of Microsoft Mobile and nobody gives a crap. Good.

Macintosh,

Actually, Google's Android is trying to be an "open source" iPhone OS, but they're failing miserably and Apple hasn't even filed their patent infringement lawsuits, yet.

Aug 07, 08 - 05:54 pm Comment from: Macintosh

I guess what I meant by that was how they plan to have the software on any number of different phones from different manufacturers...

Aug 07, 08 - 05:55 pm Comment from: JAYGEE

NOOOOO! I've been looking forward to the Google Android based phones being released.

When the phones are out, I'm sure they will get more attention from developers.

The iPhone was out for a full year before it had the App store. Makes you wonder if the app store was released when the first iPhone came out, if the App store would have been as popular with developers as it is now.

It will take time with Android to get a foot into the market, but it will eventually become one of the main platforms out there

I think Google made a huge mistake by screwing their developers. Google publicly released a very buggy alpha to get developers on board, then ran/is running a secret beta program for only a few developers selected by Google. When one of Google's developers accidentally sent a message about a newer version to a public list instead of just to a private list, Google's response to question about the new version was "we're sorry you found out about it. you can't have it. we have nothing to say about when you might get a newer version."

And people are complaining about Apple still covering their SDK with an NDA... I would say Google is acting significantly worse in the developer relations department!

If google wants their open source android to succeed they need to invest in a company or invent themselves a truly revolutionary hardware component for a cell phone/mobile device. Perhaps a foldable screen or whatever. And license that technology to different manufacturers in a way that Apple won't have access to. So the android software would work hand in hand with this new hardware component.
That would make it attractive for handset makers I think

Apple might have killed Android with the iPhone SDK.

I've never understood how Android is going to work. All the people who will develop the software have completely different goals than the people sell the hardware and the people who run the telcos.

Is ATT going to let HTC sell a phone that can be tethered to the internet without ATT's permission, for example?

Is Verizon going to allow users to latch onto a different service than V-cast?

If Linux still can't compete in the PC space after a decade where there are no constraints on power, battery life, screen size, video processing, weight, memory, harddrive space, etc. how the heck is Android ever going to cut it unless someone like Sony adopts it and pumps a few billion dollars into the development?

Aug 07, 08 - 06:35 pm Comment from: Andy

Personally, I think Google should stick to hosting a search engine - unless it starts to make its own hardware. I also think Google is more than a little deluded if it imagines its name will give it some automatic 'cool' cachet. The company's overall attitude is beginning to wear a bit thin, and I believe Steve nailed the whole issue on the head in his comments.

People who try too hard are usually the opposite of anything remotely cool, remember.

Both companies (Apple and Google) are still relatively new to the market, I hope that BOTH do well. I'm sure the innovations that occur from the developers working on Android will cross pollenate the iPhone platform. It's a totally new age and these are the first platforms of the new convergence mobile devices. Of course, Google is taking the road the Microsoft took and will have a harder time dealing with the multitude of devices that may take advantage of their OS. For general purpose devices, time has shown that it is better to have the OS and the hardware made by the same company so that the user experience is the highest concern and developers can help each other so that the whole community is happy.

Aug 07, 08 - 06:46 pm Comment from: Cubert

I've seen the video demos of Android that Google did recently, and all I can say is that at least it's better than the absolutely terrible Palm, Symbian, and Winblows OS's.

Aug 07, 08 - 06:48 pm Comment from: Spark

Steve Jobs appears so prescient. I guess it's a lot easier to read the future when you know what you've got hiding behind the curtain. Specifically iPhone 2.0 and SDK tools. Game, match.

You guys dictating what Google should and shouldn't do sound like all those people who thought Apple didn't belong in the phone industry. Or those in 2001 who thought Apple had no business making music players. Think there's an infamous MacRumors thread documenting the foolish skepticism of Apple fans after Steve Jobs pulled out that little white box.

Google, like any other company, shouldn't hesitate to venture outside their comfort zone when they see an opportunity to grow.

Aug 07, 08 - 07:22 pm Comment from: Andy

@R2

But Google isn't a hardware company like Apple. Have you seen MS's efforts on both the computer and phone platforms, right? I'm not a great fan of Google myself, so that probably plays part of it.

Apple has an inherent advantage basically anywhere it wants, whereas Google is essentially a one trick pony. And anyway, you can already access Google on any phone with a net connection and screen - what more do they think people need?

people are right. Google bet on a free OS to spread but just like on the desktop it has no dedicated hardware support or payoff against the already established big players. And unlike Apple there is also no polish. It willbe a hard sell as a commercial difference maker.

Aug 07, 08 - 07:35 pm Comment from: MrMcLargeHuge

Don't get me wrong, I think Google can and will succeed with Android, but right now Steve is looking prophetic.

Android is dead.....period. Won´t ever see the light of day, trust me.

Aug 07, 08 - 07:54 pm Comment from: Andy

@MrMcLargeHuge

Steve is always looking prophetic. He can alter the entire tech industry through sheer force of will, afterall.

Just like the crew joke about the director James Cameron's legendary perfectionism,

"I'm not opinionated - I'm just always right."

So what about the OpenMoko project? Is that looking equally doomed?

Aug 07, 08 - 08:06 pm Comment from: Andy

@OpenMoko

If Steve says so - you betcha'!

"... is losing potential candidates to Apple's recently launched iPhone software development kit as well as [other mobile] offerings"

Apple did have a really good strategy there. First, they introduced a high profile phone. It didn't promise much as a first generation phone, just enough to get people to buy it. Then, they concentrated on fixing the bugs and other issues. When the foundation started to firm up and people started getting uncomfortable with only Web 2.0 apps, bam! they introduced the SDK. Then they unveiled the second gen iPhone with a new OS.

Apple kept people's and developers' attention on iPhone for so long that they didn't focus much on the competitors' smartphones. The strategy also makes competitors chase the puck as Apple keeps hitting on it. And before they realized it, iPhone has become a platform.

Aug 07, 08 - 09:28 pm Comment from: wannabe

Seriously, you guys are all missing the point. I'm sure Google has the technical skills to make a good phone, but they won't. Anybody can tell that Google isn't committed to this project. Their whole attitude is "hey, let's screw around in this market too, it looks like a good business opportunity or something, whatever, we're Google, I'm sure we'll bring the world revolution without trying." As if their business plan is to cook up a phone OS on 20% time and see what happens.

No. That's not how Google succeeded with search, it's not how Google succeeded with mail. It's how they failed with chat, how they failed with Froogle, etc. They are a great company but when they don't really push to make great products, they don't make great products.

Aug 07, 08 - 09:59 pm Comment from: Martin

what support ?

this is very vague, lost in the iPhone, i'm to busy to make the effort to read about it, to bad, i'm a decent programmer.

obviously the quality of the platform matters, a lot, but/and the message is important as well.

and i never heard anything that attracted my attention to the Android platform.

i'm ashamed, i just don't know any reason to work on that, maybe it's great, but i will never know, becoming something i don't like, an uninformed idiot with a meaning.

but that's what they did, it should not take more than two lines to tell me why android is worth the attention to read THOUSANDS of lines of docs,.h.c etc.

Apple made it really simple, 30+ million apps sold in no time, 70 % (historical) given to the programmer.

i was getting a huge 12% of the 30% of the 40% of what the user was paying, and now i can get 70%, with no other effort than doing my job ?

that's AWESOME, Nobody and Nothing has ever done more than the iPhone for small scale software development.

a part time programmer is currently making more than 1800 bucks with a very well executed crossword puzzle program, PER DAY !

fabulous !, initiated by Apple, good for them, and life changing for many others.

For programmers this could be more important than the mac or the iPhone itself, more important than the iPod for music, we are completely free now !

Aug 07, 08 - 10:30 pm Comment from: dukemeiser

Open source just doesn't work. Yeah it's free. Yeah its open. But nobody can agree and because its free there's no support because there is no incentive! If Google had just developed its own platform (like Apple) this wouldn't be an issue.

Aug 07, 08 - 10:32 pm Comment from: DogGone

Google's potential is to offer a replacement for Symbian which clearly has limited.

If they develop and maintain the mobile OS then maybe it will get adopted. But it certainly won't happen overnight.

People forget that Apple spent the last 3-4 years getting the iPhone to where it is now. It's good but there's still a lot work needed.

"But Google isn't a hardware company like Apple"

IBM, Intel and AMD are hardware companies, Apple just put 3rd party components in a fancy box.

"Steve is always looking prophetic. He can alter the entire tech industry through sheer force of will, afterall."

How's the Segway going? Still going to be bigger than the Internet?

For what it is worth, I hope that Android or something similar is a great success. Competition can only help the consumer by spurring on Apple and other companies.

Jobs on the Segway:

“I think it sucks!”

Aug 08, 08 - 07:38 am Comment from: Andy

@me

And boy do Apple make those 'fancy boxes' work! Let's see Windows run flawlessly on third party hardware, eh? Even if Apple doesn't manufacture the silicon and aluminum components and so on, the company still puts all the parts together to work as seamlessly as possible, to Steve's liking, even.

Plus, IBM, Intel and AMD specialize in hardware - they don't make their own software, because it isn't part of their operational remit, so your point is moot anyway.

Apple could run rings around Google without even really trying, if it wanted to, since it has spent the last thirty odd years evolving to bigger and better things - mostly thanks to its ability to create the whole widget.

Google, on the other hand, believes not only is it unassailable but that somehow, anything it does will brand it 'cool' by default. At the heart of it, all Google is - is a search engine with a clever name.

If you think about, actually, Google has exactly the same mentality as its mortal nemesis, Microsoft...

Aug 08, 08 - 09:31 am Comment from: Demon

Before Android was announced and all the speculation was that Goggle was going to do a smart phone, everyone said Apple's New iPhone wouldn't be able to match a google phone. Then Google announced Android and all the tech punters who'd been flogging that the Google phone would kill the iPhone faded back into the woodwork. It's now been more then a year from the time Google announced Android and it's still not close to a having even one handset to use Android. The iPhone is selling like penny glasses of water in the Sahara. Android is clearly not aimed at the iPhone but, is squarely targeted as a Windows Mobile replacement.
Google can offer something MS can't a smart phone OS at no cost. If Goggle can get their act together and get the Developer Kit for Android fixed and out to all the developers before a device hits the street then they'll have a shot at taking some of MS Windows Mobile market share. It they putz around it and miss it, well then not so much. Android's future in the market is up to Google and how committed they are in making Android a player for Microsoft's Windows Mobile space.
If I were Google I'd use Android, and my power as Google to crush Windows Mobile right out of the marketplace. I leave Microsoft with sells so small it would be worth staying in the market just to show MS that they really don't know how to compete in a real open and free market.

LOL, MDN is so embarrassing. At least have your OWN opinions you mindless droids. You don't need to repeat exactly what Steve says just because you don't have anything to say yourselves you disgraceful bunch of embarrassments.

Aug 08, 08 - 09:53 am Comment from: Andy

Eric,

Impressive - insult and attack people you don't even know, and then fail to include your own 'esteemed' opinion on the matter at hand, which is the viability of Google's Android.

That said, your comment says much more about you than you probably care to admit.

Aug 08, 08 - 10:18 am Comment from: FreddyThePig

@Eric
I notice you don't have a registered badge next to your name. That means you are anonymous to MDN. And we all know that anonymous criticism is the highest form of cowardice. You sir, are a coward.

Forget about S. Jobs. The market has already spoken on the iPhone and it is a roaring success and seems to be on the verge of becoming a dominant platform in the smartphone market. (I'm not talking about the 100 million $50 handsets Nokia sells.)

Whereas the Android platform is clearly having "issues."

I mean, that thing isn't even out of the womb yet. Unless some major hardware player like Sony or Samsung picks up the ball and makes a MAJOR investment, I have a hard time seeing how it's going to get much traction.

Building an open source phone isn't anything like building an open-source computer. The telecos will make sure of that.

Aug 08, 08 - 02:54 pm Comment from: zmarc

I read a killer article on Android from the developer's perspective and in brief it said that Android will never succeed for one reason: no hardware standardization.

Basically, Android is trying to support every kind of hardware: flip phones, touch screens, hardware keyboards, stylus input, etc. That sounds great, but it means the APIs are incredibly complicated and without hardware standards, you can't write an application for an "Android phone" because there is no such thing. Programs have to be written each for specific phone: some have touch screens, some have cursor-controlled menus, etc. That means the developers won't come until there are phones on the market and developers will wait to see which phones are successful (i.e. sell in the millions) and then they'll write for those specific devices. But of course it's unlikely those new phones will be successful without exciting new applications...

Android is doomed.

"And boy do Apple make those 'fancy boxes' work! Let's see Windows run flawlessly on third party hardware, eh? "

Lets see OSX run flawlessly then we'll talk.

"Plus, IBM, Intel and AMD specialize in hardware - they don't make their own software,"

IBM and Intel don't make their own software??? These companies do real software development not just adding eye candy and security holes to OSs they buy from somebody else.