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Nov 27, 07 - 10:15 am Comment from: twilightmoon

Wow.. very impressive how he managed to lace just about every bit of MS funded anti-Apple FUD into one article.

Enderle must be jealous, even he isn't that efficient.

MDN: Uncheck Spam me of follow up comments by default, please.

Nov 27, 07 - 10:18 am Comment from: Wade Smith

One of the real and constant reasons to continually reference this website is because they are willing to actually make their way through this kind of shit,while I can sit here unbenighted. Thanks, really.

Nov 27, 07 - 10:20 am Comment from: Think

Checked the homepage on the website. Your average user will never look at it. It's aimed at Suits that talk the corporate talk. I could only look at it for about 2 minutes.
Ugggh.

Nov 27, 07 - 10:22 am Comment from: Big Al

Let's see, Apple has 8% of the personal computer market in the USA and Gateway has less.

Macs never get hacked and Gateway home computers form the backbone of the hacked, spam producing botnets.

So much for security through obscurity.

Nov 27, 07 - 10:23 am Comment from: TowerTone

High brow gossip aimed at influencing markets.

Also known as bullshit.

He goes on about other phones standing up to the iPhone and holding their own in the market which is fair enough but he obviously hasn't thought to take into account the effect on all markets of the iPhone Nano.

Nov 27, 07 - 10:33 am Comment from: macbookmad

They did a good job of an overview of the risks Apple faces. Every employee would do well to read it and know where the landmines are. But to take the negative slant on all of these points and add it all up to rough roads ahead is simply statistically unlikely. Sure, some of these landmines might explode. But don't you think Apple has a response ready? Don't you suppose that they've been through many of these scenarios multiple times. I know they have and if they've proved one thing, they have a sustainable competitive advantage and that's innovation.

Nov 27, 07 - 10:35 am Comment from: Macromancer

""MP3 players from the likes of iRiver, Microsoft, SanDisk, and Toshiba are getting slicker all the time, targeting the iPod at a fraction of the cost."

Define slicker and fraction of the cost? Prove it? Let's see some numbers.

Nov 27, 07 - 10:39 am Comment from: Ampar

Isn't it time to start the next Macworld rumors?

You go first.

Nov 27, 07 - 10:41 am Comment from: TowerTone

"Let's see some numbers."

7, -92, 869

Nov 27, 07 - 10:43 am Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

Penenberg,

How much is Ballmer paying you...?

So many naysayers out there that just don't get it. Like Apple is going to fscking collapse tomorrow. Give me a break. Lemmings! You think Vista SP1 is going to make it any better? Vista is shit. iPod competitors are shit. Zune sucks ass.

This guy is a fscking moron. It amost sounds like Zunetang satire.

FM

The big trend at Bloggerworld in Vegas this year was bloggers for hire
(hired guns). we will see more & more FUD like this article in the
future. I am sad that the potential of the web as a beacon for truth
and expression of one's opinions and ideas is in grave danger of losing
it's credibility, if this trend continues. I hope this author and all
the other bloggers reconsider how valuable journalistic integrity is.

I thought the author made excellent use of the alphabet and various forms of punctuation.

Define:
Slicker "Slippery so as to cause them to fall and break so that you have to purchase another"
Fraction of the cost "As in 99/100, that is still a fraction"

Nov 27, 07 - 10:49 am Comment from: Ampar

"For half the price of a Mac, you can pick up a PC that does pretty much the same thing."

Really?

Is it time to pick up Apple shares then? Sometimes, a hit piece like this is used to drop the share price. The gullibles sell and the vultures buy. In a couple days, the market corrects itself and they will have made tons of cash.

Nov 27, 07 - 11:00 am Comment from: DLMeyer

Macromancer, slicker and at a fraction of the cost ... doesn't mean "slicker than the iPod" so much as "slicker than the stuff they used to claim were iPod killers".
Ferf, you do realize that Zune Tang is doing satire, right? And that this guy is serious?
He's right about me being able to buy a PC for half the cost of a Mac and that the PC will do most of what the Mac will do. Will it do it "as well"? Likely not. Will it do it as long? Likely not. Will it be a bargain? Likely not. Will it make me happy? Maybe. Briefly. Until it catches a 'cold'.
Dave

Nov 27, 07 - 11:00 am Comment from: TowerTone

And for half the price of a PC, you can pick up a hooker that pretty much does the same thing. Suck.

it's as if the writer just ripped every digg headline and did zero research. eff'in tool.

Good one Towertone!!!

"For half the price of a Mac, you can pick up a PC that does pretty much the same thing."

NO YOU CAN

Nov 27, 07 - 11:25 am Comment from: BillH

"For half the price of a Mac, you can pick up a PC that does pretty much the same thing."

Should read "The experience of using a Macintosh where everything "just works" and one doesn't have to live in fear of being invaded by viruses, trojans and other malware can't be replicated by any other vendor at any price."

How long this continues to be true is uncertain. It's been true for the last 6 years since I relegated my NT driven PC to the trash heap. If you're interested in serving yourself and your readers you might consider switching yourself. While technically I understand what your trying to say about closed systems your central premises are quite incorrect. On Apple hardware you can run Windows, linux, most iterations of Unix, and the Mac OS. On iPods you can play mp3's, mp4's (aac), apple lossless and a few others. All of these codecs are considered open.

If it's your intention to deliver factual information that serves your readers and hopes to educate to some degree, I would hope that you do a follow up piece. If your just looking to spread lies and half truths for the sake of gaining additional hits on some website, consider how you might reflect on that as a career path a few years down the road.

Nov 27, 07 - 11:29 am Comment from: BillH

Sent the above to the author. The subject line read "Karma".

Apple "Hit" piece. Lol! It's a conspiracy. Really, everyone is out to get Apple! You guys take yourselves way too seriously.

As always, the writer makes some good points which MDN glosses over. The MP3 players from the competition are getting much better. There's only a marginal difference between iPod and many other players in terms of quality and usability. The new flash based players from Creative and Samsung are very compelling and less expensive.

Then there's this article which MDN declined to air.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/2007/11/22/more_leopard_problems_plague_apple/

Another "hit" piece no doubt.

Nov 27, 07 - 11:46 am Comment from: Micro Me

"As most hackers will tell you...."

So, is he boasting here about the number of hackers he knows?

Nov 27, 07 - 11:54 am Comment from: Realist

The following quote is from Tom's Guide... but, there are more like this showing up in places never before critical of Apple.

The reasons for this: 1. Lower standards for quality and customer care. 2. iPhone sucked the energy from code writers at Cupertino and Apple left it up to consumers to finish the testing of Leopard for them.

A slippery slope we now find ourselves on.

"There are a variety of other reports, including a Mac Pro becoming completely inoperative after a Leopard upgrade. One user asked, Is it me, or is Leopard just a mess?. Apple locked the topic, preventing replies. Another user echoed my sentiments at the start of this article by asking Is ANY part of Leopard ready for release? Worst product from Apple so far. Here's a shock, the entire thread was censored. And amazingly, despite all of the above, and everything else we've seen go wrong since Leopard debuted 3 weeks ago, at apple.com/mac/, an Apple ad on the left side of the page says "Leopard just works".

I have no doubt that it will someday. But today, it does not."

What does FUD mean?

"I am sad that the potential of the web as a beacon for truth and expression of one's opinions and ideas is in grave danger of losing it's credibility,..."

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the web never had this sort potential... except among the terminally naive. Really...I read this sort of stuff and dispair for the fate of mankind.

Nov 27, 07 - 12:21 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

@macbookmad: "they have a sustainable competitive advantage and that's innovation."

No, close, but wrong. Others have had innovation before, even Microsoft has it. The problem with others, is that they don't know how to capitalize on it.

From forming an idea, to developing it, to perfecting it, producing marketing and selling it.

If a great idea happened at Microsoft, what do you think the odds are that it would be properly developed, perfected, produced, marketed and sold, are?

Xerox PARC came up with some of the very core pieces of our modern computing world and they failed to capitalize on it.

What Apple does that no one else seems to be able to do is fully develop innovation into profitable, desirable products that people will buy.

<unchecked: Notify me of follow-up comments?>

Nov 27, 07 - 12:27 pm Comment from: John Crawford

Today it does for me. Leopard just works!

Nov 27, 07 - 12:45 pm Comment from: LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon

For those investors in AAPL who periodically put money into that stock, you should thank the idiot Penenberg. By his laughably stupid reasoning, he helps to suppress the stock price by lowering its perceived growth prospects. You can get AAPL at bargain basement prices now, which will multiply greatly in the years to come.

Don't get mad, Get rich.

Nov 27, 07 - 12:49 pm Comment from: Ampar

@ @Ampar:

"NO YOU CAN"

Great comeback. Loud and straight to the point. Well, I'm convinced. But you left out the critical part about rubber and glue.

Nov 27, 07 - 12:54 pm Comment from: effwerd

If you don't think the toxic chemicals used in making Macs and iPods is an important issue then you haven't been paying attention. California is just one market changing in this regard. The EU is as well. The issue of whether or not these chemicals, as locked up as they are in the retail product, will eventually leach into the water table when disposed is basically moot now. If Apple wants to keep selling these items in these markets, they will have to make adjustments. Alternatives to many of these chemicals are already found.

Nov 27, 07 - 12:57 pm Comment from: Ampar

"What does FUD mean?"

I think it's the stock exchange symbol for Elmer's shotgun manufacturing corporation.

Here's a link to his company page:
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt)

Nov 27, 07 - 01:00 pm Comment from: pastrychef

"For half the price of a Mac, you can pick up a PC that does pretty much the same thing."

This idiot clearly doesn't realize that it's about the user experience.



"As most hackers will tell you, it's security-by-obscurity, a function of tiny market share, not inherent uncrackability."

This utter BS!!! Any coder who manages to launch a real virus will achieve instant super-star status in the press and among other hackers.

Got to agree with LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon: get rich, not mad. As MDN frequently points out, few saw the potential of iTunes/iPod, especially those like Penenburg to whom it is now obvious in hindsight. Putting aside his questionable judgments about value and price, Penenburg merely suffers from a most common deficiency: the inability to see much beyond his nose. I can't either, so I sympathize, but I try to hitch rides with those who can.

Nov 27, 07 - 01:14 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

How is this article FUD? In many areas it is completely complimentary to Apple. In others it has ideas that disagree with what the Apple loyalists think. I don't think people are likely to drop ipods for cheaper players from competitors because the entire iPod experience.. iPod + iTunes is what we like, not just the device.

He doesn't say Apple is in trouble. He says it will be interesting to see how Apple evolves. For crying out loud, IT WILL BE!

You people have got to stop gulping down pints of kool-aid before your morning coffee. Get a freaking clue! Come back into the light of reality and stop bathing in the reality distortion field for goodness sakes.

There's nothing nafarious here. It's just a man's opinion. Yeesh.

Nov 27, 07 - 01:25 pm Comment from: Anonymous©

"pretty much the same thing" is the tip-off that this is just your typical PC-users FUD.

just an attempt to knock the stock down a bit so that it's 5-10% more profitable.

do not click through.

Nov 27, 07 - 01:43 pm Comment from: Wade Smith

" iPod + iTunes is what we like, not just the device."

I've seen the also-ran mp3 players, and they're dung. It really is the device with the iPod, and a great deal of the rest of the Apple experience, a la Ive et alia.

Remember, buyer's remorse is often presenting as 'just as good as'. But there really is nothing out there 'just as good as' in all so many ways.

Nov 27, 07 - 02:02 pm Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

@ DLMeyer,

Yes, fool, I DO know Zunetang is satire, but you've missed the boat. My point is that this article is so laughable you'd almost think it WAS satire. How many assholes are really writing FUD THIS BAD about Apple? There are some, but many of the non-believers have already gotten on the bandwagon. This article is indeed serious, but it's very hard to take it seriously.

FM

Nov 27, 07 - 02:12 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

I agree with you Wade about the device. The iPod is a sweet device. For some reason this year the Nano particularly appeals to me. I just don't have enough money to buy all the iDevices I'd like.

Here's my point though. If someone makes a device that is arguably just as good if not better than an iPod, it still won't appeal to me unless it is completely integrated with iTunes, like the iPod.

Consider the Zune. Most of the folks here that rag on the Zune have never used one. It is a good device. It is as good as an iPod in almost every way. The video is outstanding. MS seriously needs to fire whoever comes up with names like "Zune" and "Squirt" but the device shouldn't be blamed for where it comes from.

On top of stupid names, MS created a back end with nutty things like MS points for people to deal with. It's that back end that makes the Zune unattractive.

If MS were to create a piece of software as easy to use as iTunes for both WINDOWS AND MAC, allow that software to read your iTunes database and populate your Zune with any non-Apple DRM music, the Zune would sell like crazy. Instead they are following the same old you have to be locked into us strategy we're all freaking sick of. We're already locked into Apple with the iPod/iTunes strategy. Admittedly, it's a comfortable prison, but a prison nonetheless.

Whoever allows us a way out is going to win big.

Nov 27, 07 - 02:24 pm Comment from: Swordmaker

Here is the comment I posted on the original Magazine website in response to this article:

<hr>

Here is a list of just some of the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) about Apple being spread in this article:

"He (Jobs) won't allow music and videos downloaded from iTunes to be played on other MP3 players."

False. Apple sells both DRM and DRM free music from the iTunes Store.

"He won't permit music downloaded from competing stores to play on the iPod."

False... iTunes can play other songs from other stores.

"...he went so far as to disable or "brick" the device of anyone who dared "jailbreak" it for use with another carrier, or who downloaded third-party applications for features Apple hadn't built in."

False. The owners of those iPhones violated their license agreements and the closing of the security vulnerability that enabled them to "jailbreak" the iPhone along with the complete update of the iPhone's OS, which improved operation, caused the "bricking" of the phone. Most 3rd party applications were working again within a week or two.

"For half the price of a Mac, you can pick up a PC that does pretty much the same thing."

False. If you compare computers made by any brand-name maker that include similar components, you will find that Apple is often cheaper or competitive in price. Go to Dell and customize a computer to match the Mac Pro specs (I did the comparison last week) and the Dell is more than $700 more expensive... without the suite of software that is included with the Mac. Apple does not compete in the "bargain basement" of the PC market. The lowest priced Dell all-in-one XPS-One, designed to compete with the $1199 iMac, is $1499.

"The iPhone has Wi-Fi and a beautiful touch screen, but the phone itself is middling..."

Have you used one? I find my iPhone's telephone capabilities far better than my previous phones from Motorola, LG, and Nokia. I won't call that opinion false, because that is a subjective judgement call.

"As most hackers will tell you, it's security-by-obscurity, a function of tiny market share, not inherent uncrackability."

If this were true, why haven't they been able to hack the Macs in the wild? There are currently 25,000,000 OSX Mac users of which approximately 20,000,000 are in the US. Surveys of consumers by Consumers' Reports and Popular Science Magazine found that Macs are used by between 14% and 18% of consumers in the US. That is hardly "obscure". Other surveys have found that the majority of Mac users operate their computers with absolutely no anti-mailware software and most likely with their firewall turned off. Yet another survey found that Mac users were somewhat more affluent than Windows users. That sounds like a large group of sitting ducks, a prime target, to me. Yet, after almost seven years on the market, the number of self-replicating worms, viruses, and spyware for the OSX Mac is still ZERO.

Viruses have been written for hardware/software that has a far smaller installed base than the Mac. They even wrote a worm to invade iPods that had been hacked to run Linux... there can't be too many of them... and an already patched consumer router with a less than 12,000 still vulnerable target... but you repeat the canard that 25,000,000 is too obscure for the malware authors. Sorry. No, it is not "security by obscurity." OSX is built on a more secure model.

"...iTunes is the driver for iPod sales (which, in turn, boost Mac sales), then Jobs's chair sits on a floor he doesn't own."

Also no. iPods account for only 40% of Apple's sales (the Mac computer line is still the largest cash generator) but even if we accept your premise, the evidence shows that people are not buying iPods so they can purchase songs from the iTunes Store. Do the math yourself: 3 billion songs downloaded from iTunes divided by the 110 million iPods sold equals a little over 27 songs sold per iPod. Are all those iPod owners listening to only 27 songs over and over? Or have they converted their library of CDs to their easy to use iPods? I think they have other sources for their music than just iTunes.

These were just a few of your errors and mistakes. There are more.

<hr>

Nov 27, 07 - 02:31 pm Comment from: Ampar

"MS seriously needs to fire whoever comes up with names like 'Zune' and 'Squirt'"

You're right.
So, Ballmer should be fired. At least for ad libbing the squirt part in an onstage interview and embarrassing the female interviewer with his sexual overtones.

Nov 27, 07 - 03:08 pm Comment from: DLMeyer

Ferf, why is it you are the most hostile, personally insulting, border-line foul-mouthed person on this thread? Do you even know what "fsck" means?
If much of what you meant earlier was in your response, why didn't you just say it then? Why bring ZT into it in the first place? Why get so angry, then or after? The guy is ill-informed, that's his problem. His job is in danger. Again, that's his problem. The way you are responding, you are making his problem, your problem. Bad plan, Jack.
Dave

> people who've never actually used an Apple product.

certainly, they are amongst the naysayers, but also in that number are those who just don't get good interface. those who think nothing of a dozen or so extra clicks of the mouse to do something. and those who've last laid a hand on the mac 10 years ago.

Penenberg's article may go into the museum along with the rationalization of why bees can't fly, but it is already well dissected and refuted by MDN and the commenters who have posted. I will only add one thought. The key to understanding the Apple Hate in this article is the idea that collaboration and "partners" is the key to marketing:

"The question isn't whether Apple will survive but how it will evolve... In an age increasingly defined by interoperability and technical collaboration, Jobs still refuses to license Apple's operating system."

Apple is already in meaningful collaboration with the (growing) customer base. When traditional companies and analysts speak of collaboration they mean a collation of predators to wring additional money from the customers.

I have felt for sometime that Apple's real challenge is quality. This is not to dump on their quality but simply to recognize that their business and business model is firing on all cylinders and that as long as their customers old and new are having a good experience Apple will continue to grow.

And quality isn't easy because Apple's designs push the technological envelope. And engineering is hard; hiring engineers and building well functioning teams out fo them is equally hard.

The point here is that the problem isn't the barbarians. The ipod market is Apple's to lose not MS' to win. It is great that ipods are technologically ahead of Zunes but not that important. What's important is that ipod owners be happy and not feel a desire to switch.

And when someone finally discovers the mac it needs to be a truly great experience. With windows compatibility, they'll never go back (before windows compatibility, a lot of mac lovers found themselves forced to switch.)

And this partners/collaboration thing is pure Ballmer FUD. In fact, MS has been moving toward controlling its designs. Plus just a lot of misunderstand of Apple's products.

Too bad this is only "barbarians are at the gate" and isn't Business Week.

I can never re-read this article, from 2001, enough (most recently referenced by John Gruber of daringfireball.net)

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_21/b3733059.htm

Doing your own retailing. Definitely no partnership there. I guess it must be doomed...

Nov 28, 07 - 12:32 am Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

@DLMeyer,

Dave,

Chill out already. Sheesh, sorry if I'm so offensive. This site is chock full of opinions, and like everyone else I am entitled to mine. Look who's taking things to heart now?

Mr. Penenberg is so misinformed about the state of the tech industry and where things are headed, I couldn't agree more - he should be worried about his job. At this point in time, after how many years since Apple began its second renaissance, how is it that so many can just plain write Apple off? I see more Macs, both portable and desktop, in homes, businesses, airports, everywhere. iPods and iPhones everywhere. The stock is going up for a reason.

This is just a laughable article by some nincompoop that should be writing about something else - anything else.

Having been caught off guard by the lousy quality of their products this year, it is my humble opinion that Microsoft are FREAKING OUT right now. Then add to that the almost perfect string of stunning products from Apple this same year and it is my ever humble opinion that MICROSOFT HAVE GONE BARKING MAD!

So what does Microsoft do when they can't think of anything intelligent to do in marketing?

Microsoft pay for FUD.

I think this is a great time to mark down on our list all the FUD meisters who are coming out of the woodwork right now, all of whom I humbly believe to be getting kickbacks from the marketing morons at Microsoft. Remember, this is only an opinion derived from personal deduction. It is not necessarily fact:

- Patrik Runald of F-Secure, with added FUD by David Flynn of apcmag.com.
http://www.apcmag.com/7544/iphone_virus_or_spyware_80_90_likely_says_security_expert

- Mary Jo Foley of ZDNet.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=905

- Rob Enderle - De rigueur.

There is no excuse for anti-Mac FUD, particularly at this period of time. So let's keep the names of these sell-outs and bigots prominently displayed for mass revulsion and derision. Keep in mind that the point here is not to be some Apple cult religiose in the mold the FUD meisters wish we were. It is to be rational. Let quality stand or fall on its merits or faults, not on mystical mumbo-jumbo concocted in the ancient and always ignorant ritual of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.