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Has anybody met Greenpeace's challenge? Are they any computers out there that have no PVC and BFRs? Is anybody as close to eliminating them as Apple is?

Jan 07, 09 - 11:08 am Comment from: Lazy European

Well, if that's what Jobs promised and did not completely deliver Greenpeace have every right to take notice. The article on Greenpeace's website looks pretty balanced to me.

as far as i hate to admit it, greenpeace seems to be in the right here. but some perspective regarding the standing of apple in the whole industry woudn't hurt.

Jan 07, 09 - 11:11 am Comment from: Bobby Skinner

I do not care what a terrorist organization thinks.

F@@k greenpeace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fsck Greenpeace. Asshole terrorists.

A report last week has humpback whales doing so well that there is no longer any concern for continued survival and well being. What is Greenpeace to do when their reason for being is extinct? I know, let's shakedown corporations using specious environmental claims. Greenpeace, and its early supporters can be proud of what was accomplished in saving whales, but Greenpeace today is little more than a bunch of pointless bureaucrats protecting their paychecks through coercion and slander. Go away.

Whatever one thinks of Greenpeace, this is an important topic that should be discussed. I, frankly, do hold Apple to a higher standard because they are industry innovators. What constitutes a "green" product in 2009 is an interesting question.

Jan 07, 09 - 11:30 am Comment from: TowerTone

"Asshole terrorists."

That sounds very, very scary.
Also explains where they hide the bombs.
And why they are so pissed off!....

Where are they getting their information? From Apple's press release yesterday on the 17-inch MacBook Pro:

"The new MacBook family meets stringent Energy Star 4.0 requirements, contains no brominated flame retardants and uses internal cables and components that are PVC-free."

This statement would appear contrary to their claims.

So, does that mean that we should stop licking and chewing our Macs? I guess that means we should not use them as dinner plates in the microwave either.

Have those idiots at Greenpeace said anything about the NEW light bulbs (with toxic metals) that are thrown out every 6 months? That is like looking at a scratch on your bumper after you rear ending a truck!

Jan 07, 09 - 11:35 am Comment from: deepdish

Green Peace can go Frak off for all I can.

I use to respect them.

I still do.

But this media game they are playing is running thin.

Greenpeace may be correct, but the way they go about reporting things and picking on certain targets but not others has stopped me from paying attention to them.

Green Peace...yet another useless organization doing diddly poop all for anything on the planet. Honestly, the ONLY time that I hear the words 'Green Peace' is in relation to a nag on Apple. Isn't there a whale on a beach somewhere that needs a shove? Really people. Why keep badgering the company making the most 'green' headway?

Jan 07, 09 - 11:56 am Comment from: JadisOne

They're nothing but a bunch of hacks.

Jan 07, 09 - 11:59 am Comment from: theloniousMac

At least you guys know the truth about Greenpeace. Even the founder of Greenpeace knows that like most "environmental" organizations, they long ago abandoned science in favor of using FUD as the foundation upon which to build political power.

The most kind word I can use for Greepeace is scoundrels.

Greenpeace's claims are as bullsh*t as the a-holes here calling them "terrorists" which is unconscionable hyperbole at best. Personally, I don't remember anyone from Greenpeace killing anyone, cutting off their heads, blowing up children or old ladies etc.

As to their article, it's not even remotely accurate. It's like it was written by a teenager or something.

The whole article is based off of this statement in the second paragraph: "... the word from the man himself - Apple CEO Steve Jobs - from as far back as May 2007 that toxic PVC and BFRs in Mac computers would be history by the end of 2008." This is just a blatant falsehood, contradicted by the actual quote from Steve in the very next paragraph: "... Last year we announced the unprecedented GOAL of eliminating polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and brominated flame retardants (BFRs) from Apple products by the end of 2008."

I capitalised the word "goal" because that's the operative part. All Apple and Steve Jobs has said, is that they:

- will remove all toxic materials
- the goal is to do it this (last) year
- they are (were) on track to achieve that goal in October.

There is no, and never was any, "promise" from Apple to remove all toxic materials by the end of calendar 2008. The facts are right there contained in the quotes that this idiot built his article on. If you wrote this in journalism class at my University, you'd get a failing grade.

Jan 07, 09 - 12:02 pm Comment from: Shadowself

I love what Greenpeace is supposed to stand.

I hate Greenpeace because they will throw out any shred of ethics or decency to get in the news whether what they are saying is fact or fiction. The number of times they have deliberately distorted the truth makes their credibility just above Madoff's.

Jan 07, 09 - 12:05 pm Comment from: 84 Mac Guy

Here is the link to their email. Dump on these boys.

Jan 07, 09 - 12:10 pm Comment from: Mr Mac

Mmm. First time I've checked out this website for Mac news. Given the ridiculous adolescent and/or redneck tone, it may be the last. Perhaps this is some kind of trolling thing just on this article. I'll check out the rest of the site before leaving you silly boys to your toys.

Green Peace and shyster lawyers trying to milk Apple with class action law suites have the same agenda.......nuisance payoffs

Jan 07, 09 - 12:11 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

"...Greenpeace's claims are as bullsh*t as the a-holes here calling them "terrorists" which is unconscionable hyperbole at best..."

I see them as no different than any other terrorist organization. They are a bunch of delusional zealots determined to force their delusions upon the rest of the world through any means necessary. In the past their terrorist actions have included the willful destruction of property and endangerment of human life.

The organization should honestly be outlawed.

Jan 07, 09 - 12:16 pm Comment from: Zune Tang®

There you have it. MAC stumbles and falls. Again. If it isn't the non-user replaceable batteries, unjustified expense or the inability to use Zune points at the I-Tunes store it will certainly be something else.

Aren't you MAC lemmings tired of MAC's continued failures? Vista on a Dell doesn't look so bad now, does it?

I'm a PC.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Jan 07, 09 - 12:16 pm Comment from: silverwarloc

@Jeremy:

You fail to grasp that there are different forms of terrorism. Not all terrorist kill peopple, cut their heads off, or even blowing up people. But, there are environmental terrorists out there as well. A good example of that is Greenpeace. There are others like the tree-sitters in UC Berkeley. Let's not forget PETA fanatics.

Jan 07, 09 - 12:17 pm Comment from: smegdude

"Mac fans in our office (and there are more than a few) were getting excited yesterday - we were expecting an announcement from MacWorld 2009 in San Francisco, confirming that Apple would as promised be removing all toxic PVC plastic and brominated flame retardants (BFRs) from its entire new product range," Greenpeace writes.

Clearly they can't read what they're saying. I believe every computer apple has announced recently has been BFR and PVC free. Obviously computers that were designed before the 2008 statement aren't going to have this stuff removed. But then, they aren't new products. Don't be surprised when the new mini and iMac and eventually Mac Pro are announced to see that they all meet the same guidelines......

Green Peace and shyster lawyers trying to milk Apple with class action law suites have the same agenda.......nuisance payoffs

additional comment.....It's like watching the first "God Father" movie collect protection money scheme....give us money and we won't break your leg.

Jan 07, 09 - 12:25 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

Lest all use our new buzz word Terrorists. Terrorists are our enemy now, not Communists like in the 50', 60', 70' and 80'. They don't work as enemies anymore, because now they are our manufacturing partners. Now we have Terrorists. This is a better enemy in any case, because it can be anybody!

Jan 07, 09 - 12:50 pm Comment from: macaholic

Greenpeace bigwigs used to fly on the Concorde. Nice use of charity dollars!! on the most polluting plane ever

Dell phoned Greenpeace and asked for the money back that they paid to be the greenest PC maker on the planet.

Greenpeace said just wait while we piss in Apple's corn flakes again.

Oh no, these EcoThugs and terrorists don't approve? Good! I will but more Apple products.

Jeremy

The average person reading Jobs statement would have taken that as a commitment to eliminate PVC by the end of 2008. Apple missed that.

You guys are all sounding rather like the Bush administration in your defence of Apple.

Apple made a public statement. They did not make their goal. People should know. What is the problem?

By the way, with all this ridiculous responses here, you make Apple look worse than Greenpeace does. Give it a rest.

These people have shown up on my DOORSTEP in Austin, Tx asking for money all under the guise of "making people aware of how Apple uses environmentally unsafe manufacturing process" and their recycling program is suspect. I informed the 20 something tree hugger that 15 years earlier I'd worked for Apple. That in this town where Dell is a major employer (5 miles from here) maybe they should be looking at Dell as they have a worse track record. Also that Apple, offers recycling of ANY old computer when someone buys a new one from them not to mention goodwill and a number of othes. Told them to leave me alone and that they need to stop picking on the class leader just to drum up publicity and go after the companys that are doing worse on a larger scale.

The look of shock on their face when I unloaded was priceless.

I'll never give them or any other environmental group my money. Spend it at home locally to make your home more energy efficient and you've done more for the environment than flushing it down their toilet.

Jan 07, 09 - 01:58 pm Comment from: HMCIV

So did apple remove the toxins or not? I'm hearing two conflicting stories.

If I understand this correctly, Mr. Jobs shouldn't have promised the moon.. so soon.

I'm surprised no one has yet taken issue with the Greenpeace claim that Steve Jobs concern for the environment is entirely due to Greenpeace pressure.

"His enthusiam for the subject, of course, initially stemmed from the success of our Green my Apple campaign, which generated huge support and discussion from Mac addicts worldwide."

And I guess Steve's a vegetarian because PETA told him to be?

greenpeace can go pound sand! everyone in greenpeace should go get a hobby and stop pointing fingers.

@Mr Mac

Hear, hear! I used to visit MDN much more frequently, but the crazy ideologues here (both tech and political) taint the whole experience.

Have fun, kids...

Jan 07, 09 - 02:26 pm Comment from: Cubert

Apple's description of the 17 inch MacBook Pro flies in the face of Greenpeace's statement. Did they not read? I can't see how they can make their claim.

Apple needs to respond with an incredulous, "huh?"

Greenpeace and Peta are like any and all fanatics (I won't mention any more names, but you know who you are- or at least, We do):

not to be taken seriously.

@ smegdude
"... we were expecting an announcement from MacWorld 2009 in San Francisco, confirming that Apple would as promised be removing all toxic PVC plastic and brominated flame retardants (BFRs) from its entire new product range," Greenpeace writes.

Clearly they can't read what they're saying. I believe every computer apple has announced recently has been BFR and PVC free."

And since the only computer announced after 12/31/08 has been the 17" Macbook...which is 'nasty free', then Apple has kept their promise for their new product range.

"Obviously computers that were designed before the 2008 statement aren't going to have this stuff removed. But then, they aren't new products..."

Apparently, Greenpeace successfully mislead themselves to believe that Apple was going to replace 100% of all of their product lines before the stroke of midnight. And if that really was the case, then they should have issued a press release last week, on 01/01/09.


And this product lifecycle question can be brought home to bear on Greenpeace by asking them if 100% of the computers that they currently have in their office - - no matter how old they are - - if they currently meet the 'Green' standards that they're asking of manufacturers ... in other words, are they backing up their claimed principles with their wallets?

A case of beer (in recyclable bottles) says that they are not.
Which would make Greenpeace a hypocrite. Again.

-hh

It's depressing... the continual use of the word "terrorist" on this site is moronic. The people using it show themselves up to be educationally-challenged.

You may or may not appreciate what Greenpeace is doing but stop with the 'terrorism' tag you all sound like idiots... or Bush clones. I'm embarrassed for you all schoolchildren.

Apple made a promise, they failed to live up to it and if so, they should have included that fact in any press release. That would then nullify Greenpeace's position.

Ecoterrorism

Nope, not terrorists at all...... Their tree spiking actions were noble and just, and the injured, maimed, or killed loggers are the real terrorists. Sounds like too many people here forget too quikly or are maybe just too young to remember the "ends justifies the means, no matter now extreme" Greenpeace.

The ends justify the means mentality still remains. Its evident the way they attack Apple. Big name = big publicity.

MW = Brown, how funny

Jan 07, 09 - 03:09 pm Comment from: praus

Greenpeace does meet the definition of terrorism

terrorism |ˈterəˌrizəm|
noun
the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Greenpeace may claim to be nonviolent but they perform violent acts on property, and have incited violence on more then one occasion. They also use intimidation like it's going out of style.

Jan 07, 09 - 03:57 pm Comment from: Darkness

Every Greenpeace press release gives me even more respect for the French Special Forces...

Jan 07, 09 - 04:02 pm Comment from: derekcurrie

Well, I was ready to join the 'F*CK GREENPEACE' raspberry chorus. But they were at least factual and relatively calm in their chastisement.

And yet, they did the usual thing that alarmist, too-far-to-the-left, loonies do, and that is to never-ever applaud progress. There tend to be hyper-judgemental people in this sad crowd and you can never live up to their expectations. They rarely get the clue about how lame we mere humans are about making progress in the world. They believe in NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT when trying to get things done. And sorry folks, but that has been proven, time after time after time, to be a great way to DETER things from getting done. No one likes to be slapped day in and day out. It engenders disrespect and disinterest in the 'Peon' toward the 'Master'.

What people DO respond to is Positive Reinforcement. Provide rewards. Cheer on success. Make progress an exciting and cheerful place to go. Will Greenpeace will ever get that clue? I can only hope so.

Meanwhile, the more Greenpeace do their finger wagging routine, the less they will be taking seriously. And yes, I love their causes and wish they would be taken seriously.

Jan 07, 09 - 04:15 pm Comment from: Galloway

Can I use the Build-to-Order option to add BFRs and PVC back into my next MacBook Pro? My diet is a little thin on both of those. Oh, and also because honestly I couldn't give a rat's ass what Greenpeace thinks.

Of course, I also loved those "Nuke the Whales!" bumper stickers way back when, so what do I know?

GreenPeace the new commies. They will NEVER be satisfied! All they want is Apple's name to bitch about. What ever they are for, I'm against!

Jan 07, 09 - 05:21 pm Comment from: ken1w

What a bunch of self-absorbed, self-promoting idiots. I wish they actually cared one-tenth as much for the environment as they do for themselves.

> His enthusiam for the subject, of course, initially stemmed from the success of our Green my Apple campaign, which generated huge support and discussion from Mac addicts worldwide

They must also be high on some good drugs...

Greenpeace needs to prioritize. Particulate emissions from diesel trucks, benzene in gasoline, coal mining, burning coal, ash from coal, MEK in nail polish etc. all kill and harm people and the environment more than any amount of "toxin" in an Apple product (who was among the first to get rid of lead-filled CRT's as we know).

But that wouldn't grab headlines, would it. Greenpeace's schtick here is, to quote Bill S, "a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. "