MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Jan 18, 08 - 10:39 am Comment from: GizmoDan

While Steve was saying that he would tell us about the environmental effects of new products, he introduced Time Capsule and didn't say a word about IT's environmental specs. Why not?

Jan 18, 08 - 10:40 am Comment from: DakRoland

Thank you MDN. Greedpeace is a joke and they're only out there to make money and headlines. Environmentalism was hijacked years ago and used for all kinds of political and money-making schemes. Just ask the former co-founder of Greenpeace. They can't make real legitimate arguments based on fact, so they use bullying and scare tactics, and let kooks and nutcases help them garner headlines and good/bad press all over the world.

Jan 18, 08 - 10:41 am Comment from: GizmoDan

MDN, you're starting to sound like RoughlyDrafted.com when he goes off from time to time about his personal politics rather than sticking to the Apple story. I agree with the gist of your article. But your commentary is over the top.

Jan 18, 08 - 10:44 am Comment from: LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon

Where are those French frogmen -- pun not intended -- when you really need them?

Who is Greenpeace's technology supplier?

Jan 18, 08 - 10:46 am Comment from: ron

"Greenpeace intends to ride Apple’s PR coattails for as long as possible"

Riding the coattails: I think that means to be helped, or carried along by.

Jan 18, 08 - 10:49 am Comment from: Sixvodkas

@GizmoDan;

It's because everyone already knows the people in IT are methane spewing gas bags.
There's no reason to delve further into their environments.

Jan 18, 08 - 10:50 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

GizmoDan... I'm with you. MDN can sound like a bunch of right-wing survivalist loons from time to time.

I used to give money to Greenpeace, but now donate to organizations like The Nature Conservancy, NRDC, Transportation Alternatives, ZPG...

Hybrids aren't always the most efficient choice of vehicle. it depends on the type of driving one does. For highway driving, they're the pits, but for errands and short hops they're excellent.

Me? I'll stick with my bicycles.

There's nothing DUMMER than a HUMMER.

Jan 18, 08 - 10:50 am Comment from: JadisOne

MDN, tell us how you really feel.

Jan 18, 08 - 10:54 am Comment from: GizmoDan

However, I have to say that the Hummer article he refers to is fascinating. You should all read it.

Personally, I am a conservative, and feel that most environmentalists are such due to a lack of other religion, therefore they worship the earth. Gotta believe in something! I drive an xB, but only because I'm cheap.

Jan 18, 08 - 10:55 am Comment from: ron

I received around $6000 in tax credits when I built our home. Then the $6000 was added to my income and taxed. It would have been less expensive, and a LOT less trouble to not have bothered with all the regulations and paperwork entailed. Greenpiss can kiss my donkey.

MDN.

Agree with you on the whole greenpeace thing, but don't pull stuff out of your ass regarding the Hybrid vs Hummer thing. That was a very flawed study as a quick google search will reveal.

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/20/1858204&from=rss

http://www.pacinst.org/topics/integrity_of_science/case_studies/hummer_vs_prius.pdf (PDF)

and many more.

Jan 18, 08 - 10:57 am Comment from: GizmoDan

ron--

How does that work? I thought a tax credit was a direct subtraction off of the taxes you would owe. How did you end up owing more?

Greenpeace is a joke. Many of it's founders think so.

Jan 18, 08 - 11:09 am Comment from: ron

GizmoDan, it happened. It was 16 years ago in California.

I also got caught up in Dumbass Carter's solar energy scam. Cost me a 1/4 million $ in back taxes, interest (16 to 18%) and penalties. My fault.

Jan 18, 08 - 11:13 am Comment from: effwerd

Greenpeace should know that too much bullshit is bad for the environment.

Jan 18, 08 - 11:14 am Comment from: Ampar

"Who is Greenpeace's technology supplier?"

Ohio Art. They provide Greenpeace with the finest and safest laptops.

Jan 18, 08 - 11:14 am Comment from: Eric

I think that MDN's comments here are making a mountain out of a molehill with this Greenpeace thing... Greenpeace is just doing whatever they can to do what they are trying to do... save the world. Is that a bad thing? No, I don't think so. I personally disagree with many of their tactics, but they're intentions are well meaning, and really, they have a good point...

Apple could, should (and likely has started to) pressure their suppliers to do the same things with their electronics as they are doing with their own designs. Until then, Greenpeace's point remains valid... there is something bad in the device that does not need to be there, and thus should be eliminated... The publicity will help push it in that direction, and that is exactly what Greenpeace is trying to do. If it annoys Jobs, oh well...

So what? It's not like Greenpeace is calling for a boycott of Apple products, and even if they did, outside of a VERY small minority, only Greenpeace activists would actually try to do so, but I doubt it would work, since every Greenpeace activist I have ever met had a Mac. I bet 90% or more of Greenpeace activists are loyal Apple customers.

HP, Dell, etc. whilst bigger, are clearly perceived as just mass producers... The McDonalds to Apple's Red Robin (Google "Red Robin" if you don't know what that is - don't be a moronic putz and ask what you can find out for yourself!). Apple is considered a trend setter, and innovator, a forward thinker, so Greenpeace logically rides their coattails, as MDN fairly accurately characterizes it. If they tried the same with HP or Dell, it's likely to elicit a "no shit sherlock" kind of response.

Anyhow, let's remember what Hollywood has known well for decades... there is no such thing as bad publicity. It sure doesn't seem to be negatively affecting the sales of Macs.

Jan 18, 08 - 11:18 am Comment from: Ampar

It's a lot more unsafe to get a hummer while driving a hybrid.

Jan 18, 08 - 11:21 am Comment from: Macromancer

"MDN, you're starting to sound like RoughlyDrafted.com when he goes off from time to time about his personal politics rather than sticking to the Apple story."

In this case they are right to do so. Greepeace has all but admitted they are using Apple for PR. Mostly all they are doing is pointing that out.

Jan 18, 08 - 11:32 am Comment from: iDon't

Kick Al Gore off of Apple's board!!!

Jan 18, 08 - 11:34 am Comment from: Jubei

Greenpeace has lost all its credibility which their semi terroristic actions. This is just further proof that they have lost their way and resorts to slumming their cause with idiotic behavior.

Greenpeace is definitely using Apple to piggyback their message to a more conscious audience (Mac users…). While certainly insincere considering Apple's marketshare and so forth, I'm not sure it's really a bad thing because it's clearly influenced Apple and given them a little push to stay ahead of the eco-friendliness curve. Which, I'm positive, will help Apple sell more units in the future. And save the earth

So the winner is Apple, simply for taking greenpeace's unfair criticism seriously. I think Steve is very aware of this, while at the same time he must be wishing GP would get off Apple's back...

Hey MDN, where's your custom icon for Webclips on the iPhone? It'd be nice for the direct link to your site. How about it?

F*CK greenpeace and their liberal ilk. Disgusting people.

I consider myself an environmentalist, but Greenpeace has gone off the rails here. Clearly they are just looking for more publicity, but I doubt they will ever be satisfied until everything is made from a combination of recycled hemp and tofu.

"but it could have zero and that would make Apple an eco-leader,"

So, according to green peace, who is the "eco-leader"? Dell, HP, Microsoft?

Jan 18, 08 - 11:42 am Comment from: macaholic

Was reading an article years ago about the then-CEO of the (at the at the time) independent Alias Technologies. He was flying to Europe on the Concorde and was sitting next to a Greenpeace exec. Two things stand out on this. First, why is this exec of an organisation that relies on donations, flying the most expensive way there ever was. Second, since the Concorde was reputed to be the most polluting and ozone damaging plane ever, why was he on it at all?

Also, everyone should know that Greenpeace fundraisers get a commission on the donations they round up on your doorstep etc.

I love your brief digest of Apple news but you guys really get full of it sometimes in your unecessarilily insecure and petty defense of all things Apple.
Of course Greenpeace is watching Apple, & I'm glad they are. I love Apple & I want them to be the best in environmentally responsible technology like they are in innovative technology.
For Greenpeace it's not about "just" getting their name in the paper, it's about pushing their message. Greenpeace has an important agenda to push and companies like Apple are the way to do that.
I won't mind at all if Dell & HP get called on the carpet as well but Apple should be among the first because of their leadership position.

Jan 18, 08 - 11:44 am Comment from: Always Right

"Sorry, RIckie, if Jobs decided not to waste his entire keynote presentation talking about your pet issues."

No, that would be PETA.

(pet issues, get it?)

Kim- you're a fake poster, right?
Who are you, really?

Disgusting. Truly disgusting.

@Eric

What Greepeace is doing is indeed a very bad thing. I remember listening to a speech by some of the founders of Greenpeace at their very first "Save the Whales" concert in 1974 and it was inspiring to say the least. It was a good organisation filled with honest people who wanted to change the world.

Now, I wouldn't give them a dime and they are using dishonesty and deception to do a "PR number" on the public. Manipulation and lies will not only not get you very far, they work against you. For years there have been narrow minded jerks like the guy above using the "Greenpiss" moniker to shut them down and this just plays into that.

The same demographic that would support the things Greenpeace stands for are buying Apple computers. What Greenpeace is doing with this campaign is alienating all those people. The net effect of this kind of dishonesty is the same as if Ghandi took bribes, or Jesus appeared on a cola advertisement. One of the only things Greenpeace had going for it was the moral high-ground, but they have completely lost it now.

This campaign destroys everything that Greenpeace followers have worked for all those years. It might work in the short term but it will destroy them. This kind of stuff always does.

Jan 18, 08 - 11:55 am Comment from: ChrisW357

IMHO... if Greenpeace is going to pick on Apple this much, then they need to pick on HP, Dell, Sony and all the other tech companies just as much, if not more! What's good for the goose is good for the gander. They've been reduced to being a bunch of hypocritical PR bullies who talk the talk for their own monetary gain.

I sincerely think they lay off of the other companies by way of payoffs, but I could be wrong. Discuss?

Jan 18, 08 - 12:26 pm Comment from: shen

look greenpeace is a collection of nutters, no argument.

but the whole prius worse than a hummer things has been debunked already. more than once.

even the dorks at slashdot debunked that.

seriously, please don't post stuff that makes you look stupid....

the hybrid and hummer numbers used for that article are pulled out of thin air. the research on the article (if you look deep enough) states that the reason is because a prius will last 109,000 miles, and a hummer more than 600,000 miles. yes, if you have to buy 6 prius' to get the same usage as a hummer, the prius is 50% worse.

Gizmodan: "Personally, I am a conservative, and feel that most environmentalists are such due to a lack of other religion, "

then how do you explain that the fastest growing group of environmentalists are self proclaimed "christian environmentalists."

i guess christianity isn't a belief?

Jan 18, 08 - 12:34 pm Comment from: Woody

@ Eric. There's an old saying that applies to Greenpeace: "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

Greenpeace's shrill, over-the-top, cries are falling on more and more deaf ears, because people don't want to hear their crap anymore. My household has a hybrid (MDN's flawed research regarding Hummers notwithstanding), we recycle everything we can, are switching out light bulbs to compact fluorescent, etc, etc, etc. But we don't contribute to Greenpeace because of their tactics. Instead, we give to the Sierra Club and other groups who actually do something besides send out press releases and crash boats into coral reefs.

Jan 18, 08 - 12:36 pm Comment from: LordRobin

I own a Prius.

I drive mostly on the freeway.

I get 47-50 MPG consistently.

This "hybrids don't work on the freeway" stuff is bulls**t. It all has to do with how efficient the gasoline engine is. The Prius' gas engine is extremely efficient. It also has to do with how much effort you're willing to put into driving smarter, instead of just stomping on the accelerator every time you want to go faster.

------RM

Jan 18, 08 - 12:40 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

Environmentalism is just politics. When the freaks start talking about saving tree frogs, you have to do the same thing you do with every other irrational malcontent.

Follow the money.

"Green" is big money. Like most Liberal political philosophies, "Green" is all about the transference of wealth.

The woefully bad science of so called "global warming" was so bad that they changed the name to "climate change." That way even if they can't prove the globe is getting warmer they can argue that the "climate is changing" because of ghg.

Bah.

And it isn't about melting polar ice caps either. It's about allowing 2 bit banana republics to sue the United States by claiming that their local sea level has risen 1 quarter of 1 percent of 1 centimeter in the last 25 years.

If they just said it's probably not a good idea to dump so much garbage into the atmosphere if we don't have to, I'd have far more respect for them, even be inclined to agree. But again, this isn't about the environment. It's about "Green." Good old American Greenbacks that is.

Jan 18, 08 - 12:56 pm Comment from: Lurker_PC

Another point to consider in the whole Hummer vs Prius discussion is that the Hybrids do not perform nearly as well as the stated specs during the winter months. For those of us that are fortunate enough to live in snow country, hybrids are efficient only half the year due to the cold conditions.

While I agree with the overall goals of Greenpeace, their tactics leave a lot to be desired. Agree with Mr Reeee regarding the respectability of other deserving organizations such as The Nature Conservancy.

Peace.

Jan 18, 08 - 12:58 pm Comment from: shen

"Like most Liberal political philosophies, "Green" is all about the transference of wealth. "

rotflmao! unlike, say, tax cuts for the wealthy? lol!

"The woefully bad science of so called "global warming" was so bad that they changed the name to "climate change.""

i am so tired of hearing how bad the "science" is from people who don't understand even the basics of newtonian physics let alone climate models, molecular reactions, chaos projections and on and on and on.....

please, do enlighten us all with your much better science, k?

as long as we are talking about political philosophies in general, science denies, like most conservative philosophies, is all about shoving your head in the sand (or up your ass, which ever is handier) and yelling "lalala" as loud as you can and pretending the problem will go away.

"That way even if they can't prove the globe is getting warmer "

see, if you have hundreds of years of data, and the data all slopes to warmer, you HAVE proven it. it has been shown. repeatedly. see earlier comment about head shoving and ignoring....

"by claiming that their local sea level has risen 1 quarter of 1 percent of 1 centimeter in the last 25 years."

again, entire low lying islands have disappeared. this isn't a claim. if the island is there and people live on it for generations and then over a few years the sea rises around it, this isn't a claim, this is an observable fact.

how do we know we are screwed? when you can show people simple observable facts and they deny reality, you are screwed.

...you know, like the windows users who deny the virus disparity between platforms. if you can deny reality, everything is easy!

so why is it that you can see flawed logic on the part of windows users, but not your own?

"When the freaks start talking about saving tree frogs, you have to do the same thing you do with every other irrational malcontent."

so, when the freaks start denying reality in the climate, you have to do the same thing you do with every other irrational malcontent. follow the money.

how much did the right wing nut jobs in america get from oil companies?

our oilman in chief have any money there?

his buddies in the mideast have any money?

his VP and oilman know anybody?

his friend Condi with the oil tanker named after her?

nah, the real money is in the hands of those liberal commies isn't it? not the record breaking oil companies and their $100 a barrel crack they have america hooked on.

yeah, you are too smart for us, guess we will take our big money liberal politics and go home!

Jan 18, 08 - 01:02 pm Comment from: Kit-N

Ampar

"Ohio Art. They provide Greenpeace with the finest and safest laptops."

Safest? Try breaking one of those babies open on your mother's new white carpet!

Curiosity nearly killed this cat.

1. the prius vs hummer article is seriously misrepresenting the Superstack - 90% of the sulphur dioxide was removed in 1994, and they're working on the remainder

but this doesn't look so dramatic, so the old, bad, pre-1994 state was used

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inco_Superstack

2. "climate change" when used in place of "global warming" is simply Orwell grade misrepresentation.

It is getting hotter, and we need to get off our asses.

3. The quick, take home version of global warming: The 10 hottest years in recorded history have all occured in the last 14 years.

think about it: all the carbon that has accumulated over millions of years has suddenly been released since the industrial age through burning of wood, coal, oil, natural gas ends up in a greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Obviously this is going to make the planet warmer, and the warming effect is accelerating.

All 3 of the major ice reserves on the planet - the Arctic, Greenland, Antarctica are showing major melting, and they're warming faster than anyplace else. The Arctic, in particular, is melting at an astonishing rate.

I don't expect anything less from a scum sucking parasite.

Greenpeace needs to be re-assessed.

They make too much money and profit. They think they are the regulators of all things green. They have become fat and slow... and because they have been around for sometime they appear to the average person as the definitive voice on these matter.

This needs to be challenged.

I was happy and surprised with Steve's mention of environmental concerns regarding manufacturing materials. I like glossy screens more because of this. And Apple has taken a good step forward to realizing change to their products.

Only Because Al Gore is recognized Apples Board - has Greenpeace bothered to Knock on Apples Door.

Jan 18, 08 - 02:06 pm Comment from: Micro Me

@ LinuxGuyAndMacProdigalSon: "Where are those French frogmen -- pun not intended -- when you really need them?"

I know you meant it as a joke, but it wouldn't be seen as that funny down here. A guy was killed when that bomb went off. The French then blackmailed us into handing two of the murderers over (the dead man's daughter still deeply resents that), and totally screwed us when we did.

Although somewhat overstated <irony>, I broadly agree with MDN's takes. Greenpeace's use of Apple is morally dubious.

Jan 18, 08 - 02:13 pm Comment from: djfred

Greenpeace deserves all the flack it gets for grandstanding on the coattails of Apples product line. (http://gizmodo.com/346236/greenpeace-responds-to-macbook-air-supplies-theyre-still-not-happy)

But I find it hard to believe that you guys are so desperate for ammo as to drag out that tired and long-discredited Hummer/Prious comparison like it was anything more than right wing propaganda.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inco_Superstack

Sad, beneath you and ironically exactly the same tactic you purport to be criticizing Greenpeace for using against Apple.

Completely unnecessary and I doubt when you look back on this a few months from now, you'll be happy with either the tone of the article or the tone of the comments which are hardly representative of the average mac user.

"yet they're too stupid to realize or too lazy to research that they're polluting Mother Earth even more than most people by wasting almost 50 percent more energy than by driving a Hummer." It seems MDN is too stupid to realize or lazy to research that the Prius_vs_Hummer article has been completely discredited - see http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Green_Car_News/Prius_Versus_HUMMER_Exploding_the_Myth.S196.A12220.html

wow, what a piece of work. My opinion of mac users just dropped a mile.

Greenpeace is actually hounding a Japanese whaling fleet in the Antarctic, currently.

Environmentalism is not just politics. It is science, but unfortunately what was obvious is 1975 had to be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt before greedy business types would even talk about the issues.

The way a person drives has a lot to do with gas consumption in any type of vehicle.

I am glad to hear Steve Jobs is not as much of an idoit as the author of this MDN writer.

Jan 18, 08 - 03:52 pm Comment from: Micro Me

I agree with the above posters; the use of the Hummer vs Prius "comparison" by MDN was regrettable in terms of backing up their legitimate criticisms of Greenpeace's tactics.

Unfortunately, like the "Lament of Chief Seattle", if an idea has the appropriate ingredients to catch the public's imagination (or the news media's), it doesn't matter if the underlying data are flawed, or the story is exposed as a complete fake, it will stick.

" if you have to buy 6 prius' to get the same usage as a hummer, the prius is 50% worse."

QED.

-jcr

Jan 18, 08 - 03:57 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Thank you, shen!
And Euphoria.

Jan 18, 08 - 04:08 pm Comment from: MacFhearghaile

Screw Green piss.