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May 01, 08 - 04:06 pm Comment from: nekogami13

Sounds like a jet engine, can't patch to fix security flaws, not really impressive benchmarks score-wow, gonna run out and buy me some of that suckage!

Not Worth It.

nekogami13,

You forgot "looks like shit."

May 01, 08 - 04:15 pm Comment from: mossman

hell, my old dual-533 MHz G4 tower was probably just as bad. The first fan made a horrible high-pitched noise that gave everyone headaches, but it got replaced with a jet engine.

In our apartment, the TV volume would have to go up five notches whenever the G4 was on.

I've heard louder, but at least those were 1U servers. Right after turning them on, before the fan control software kicked in, you'd swear there was a jet engine taking off just around the corner.

May 01, 08 - 04:17 pm Comment from: mossman

I'm speaking specifically of the fan noise. And no, the speed couldn't be controlled, so it ran at full blast all the time, just like this Psystar monster.

May 01, 08 - 04:18 pm Comment from: kirkgray

Also, no real list of specs on their site. Firewire is not included. What about 802.11n? Bluetooth? After adding Leopard and Firewire, I'm pushing the price of a Mac Mini. I'm sure after adding 802.11n and Bluetooth I'd be over the price of a Mini. Yeah I'd have slots and drive bays the Mini doesn't, but I never use them anyway.

Part of me likes the idea of a Mac clone. But when the biggest drive for this is cost, and they can't beat the mini on cost , why bother?

May 01, 08 - 04:20 pm Comment from: IKON

I'v you bought some stock 3 months ago, you had a better system from apple by now for the same money.

May 01, 08 - 04:21 pm Comment from: HotinPlaya

@kirkgray

remember iLife

If some people managed to build this lousy computer, it just means there's a need. Now Apple should really understand this:

Lots of people are ready to dump Windows because of Vista but have no alternative because the most affordable Mac cost more than a $1000. Some people are even ready to come up with a Prystar.

Apple should release a decent Mac Mini, with keyboard and a 15 or 17in screen, all for $799. It doesn't mean it'll be as cheap as Dell. In another industry, Volkswagen, Mercedes or even BMW all have decent entry level models. And about Apple, this would be an instant hit!!! In a period of 2 or 3 years, Apple would triple its market share worldwide, hitting a double digit share.

NOW can we put the 'Apple should license OSX' BS to rest??

Mac Mini in its current form is an absolute joke. Even more a joke than the Prystar. That S___ is totally underpowered!!!!!!!

I'm talking of a Ghz boosted Mac Mini, with 15 or 17in screen and keyboard, all for $799.

Agreed. Apple needs to make an Affordable Macintosh designed for people who cannot afford an iMac.

They should, its about time they did.

Apple. Use this as an incentive.

Mac a robust affordable Mac and you will expand into a stronger market while switching Misroshaft Winblows Fista users to the Mac OS.

May 01, 08 - 04:34 pm Comment from: Crabs

Sounds like my mom's Dell. Except hers only does that while booting, and using the disk drive. That's pretty sad when a Dell has a leg-up on you.

Make*

May 01, 08 - 04:36 pm Comment from: IKON

Apple does not need more growth than it can handle, so no dirt cheap machines are required right now.

May 01, 08 - 04:38 pm Comment from: HotinPlaya

yes agreed, a $799.00 complete Mac mini system, would be a go

Buying a Mac mini, then adding the screen and other components, is over the head for many consumers, they want a box, one price , with everything to get going

Even if they brought back the 17" iMac at $899.00

"Agreed. Apple needs to make an Affordable Macintosh designed for people who cannot afford an iMac... Mac a robust affordable Mac and you will expand into a stronger market..."

The Freeman, you're the man of the hour. What people need to understand is that with today technology, you really can deliver very good quality for $799, if your name is Apple!!!

And also, it is the RIGHT moment to eat Microsoft lunch since LOOOOOOTS of people are very unhappy with Vista. And those have aboslutely nowhere else to go. To this you got to add that Dell is going down too!!!! Apple should really react.

In 2 or 3 years, when Microsoft release Windows 7, It'll just be too late. Apple fanboy will be whining as usual that MS Windows 7 is a pale copy of OSX. But if Apple doesn't react, it'll be its fault. Believe me.

Never fear there bound to some PC fools out there ready to spend hard earned dollars for want-to-be solutions in order to get a OS X solutions!

So what next... the same fools will be bitching abpout just how bad OS X real is on there new want-to-be Mac!

Either buy the real thing but don't give this crap the time of day!

HotinPlaya, you're the man too.

Though probably not possible anyway, I'm sure they Psystar wouldn't want downloads from Apple that might break their POS...

May 01, 08 - 04:56 pm Comment from: Greg L

The people who run Psystar must be in their 20s and must be total retards who know nothing about what it’s like to be sued. Apple will make these guys HATE LIFE for the next few years.

May 01, 08 - 04:57 pm Comment from: nekogami13

I bought a mac mini.
I did not spend a dime on a monitor, key board, etc.
I already had them-from a PC.
The mini's target market is switchers-people coming from the PC world to greener pastures.
Apple should never go the route of Dell-making no money on bargain basement hardware, hoping to make some money off of selling warranties they pray you never use, then laying thousands off because they make no profit.

As for the mini being a joke-you are an idiot if you think that.
My mini plays back over the air HD TV, transcodes video, surfs the net and whatever else I need it to do without a hiccup.
If I need to do gene sequencing or something requiring heavy lifting by the CPU-that is what Mac Pros are for.

May 01, 08 - 05:01 pm Comment from: Roberto

"Buying a Mac mini, then adding...components, is over the head for many consumers..."

I'M NOT BUYING THAT.

Just save your pennies; brownbag your lunch for a couple of months; have a garage sale, save up for a few extra weeks. Invest in a piggy bank. Go shop on Apple's Special Deals section for a refurb, they're $949. right now. Then buy it, you freakin' cheapass!

May 01, 08 - 05:03 pm Comment from: HotinPlaya

@nekogami13

I agree to point, but many potential switchers have old PC's with CRT monitors, and would want a total new system, flat screen ect., and do not have the confidence to put together a system.

I am not saying getting rid of the "by itself" mini, but I think a nice addition would be a complete Mac Mini package around $799.00/899.00

The entire experience is what the Mac is all about...this really weakens the experience and is another reason Apple just ain't gonna license OS X.

May 01, 08 - 05:05 pm Comment from: Roberto

PS:
Sent from my Mac Pro, Dual 3 GHz Dual Core Intel Xeon processor, 6 GB RAM, 4 hard drives for 2.5 TB disk, dual monitors, Mac OS X v10.5.2.

So... nobody's checked to see if there's anything nefarious under the hood in Psystar's custom, only-updateable-via-Psystar's-website OS X installation? Why is nobody questioning the motives of the people who are selling these things? They could be doing anything to their custom OS X installations to allow them to steal your data, participate in spam botnets, etc., and without being able to use Apple's official Software Update, you'd never know.

I realize people have axes to grind regarding whether or not Apple themselves should be selling low-priced machines to folks who can't afford the mini, but somebody, somewhere, please check out the OS X installation itself to see if there's something nasty going on in the background.

Regarding Psystar and its computers, a variation on the old saying holds true: "Beware of geeks bearing gifts."

May 01, 08 - 05:16 pm Comment from: HotinPlaya

@Roberto
I was not talking about the money, I was talking about Mr and Mrs Smith, Most consumers do not want to, for lack of knowledge or fear of making a mistake, want to put together their own system.

as far as refurbs, they do not even know about Apple online.

If they walk into an Apple store, or best Buy, and see a complete system for under $1,000.00, I think they would have a winner.

"Then buy it, you freakin' cheapass!"

I hope that wasn't directed at me!, Our family of 6 has 2ea MacBook's, 2ea MBP's, 1ea 20" iMac, 3 iPhones, and a total of 5 more iPods of different styles, and 2ea ATV's

So why do I see nobody mention the fact that Psystar's P.o.C. doesn't come with iLife...

If you listen carefully to the noise of the Pystar's fans, you can hear the words "Developers, Developers, Developers!" repeated over and over again. Sweet.

Anybody look on the bottom of this Lipsticked Pig to see if it says GREETINGS FROM REDMOND anywhere?

Psystar. Soon to be legal roadkill

I love my Mac Mini. I don't find it underpowered at all, and mine is not even the latest version. (I have the Core Duo version, not the current Core 2 Duo.) I don't understand why some people so strongly insist that a desktop computer be the size of a mini fridge and have expansion slots. (Expansion slots??? Is it 1994 already?) The Mac mini has firewire and USB. You can easily pop open the case and add more ram or a bigger hard drive if you want (I've replaced the hard drives on three old Mac minis and it's not at all hard.) No, it doesn't have the graphics power to be a hardcore 3D gaming powerhouse, but what PC in that price range does?

Several of the people commenting on the linked article are impressed with this thing's stats. According to them it's clearly better than Apple hardware and they'd buy one right now if it were a little cheaper. That's why this sort of thing isn't a threat to Apple. The "cheaper" crowd are never satisfied and will destroy anyone who tries to cater to them. Slightly different meaning of consumer.

May 01, 08 - 05:29 pm Comment from: Roberto

@HotinPlaya, I should have specified that the unflattering quote was not directed at you, but at the typical schnook that thinks Macs are too expensive. Apple's gotta pay the geniuses that code our beloved OS as well as the rest of the employees...

May 01, 08 - 05:38 pm Comment from: Spark

I'd rather spend the money on a couple of shares of AAPL.

Why do some people want a cheaper version of a product they don't understand. The OS cannot be divorced from it's hardware and have the same effect. Apple is like Frank Lloyd Wright in it's design approach. They produce a unified whole. They never do what it's consumers what, but what they think is best. They are very successful in creating and selling amazingly high quality products, that bring a great deal of satisfaction to the people who purchase them, using this model. If you don't like what Apple has to offer, then you don't want a Mac. Sure go ahead, cobble together Mac-like machine or buy a Psystar, but you are missing most of which makes owning a Mac a great experience whether you know it or not.

"Several of the people commenting on the linked article are impressed with this thing's stats. According to them it's clearly better than Apple hardware and they'd buy one right now if it were a little cheaper. That's why this sort of thing isn't a threat to Apple. The "cheaper" crowd are never satisfied and will destroy anyone who tries to cater to them. Slightly different meaning of consumer."

What's funny in this regard is how different the perception is. Cause, I look at the benchmarks, and don't think that machine performs that much better to justify the lack of confidence it inspires.

One more thing: I often read that people call the Psystar "fully upgradeable". Upgradeable? How? Sure, you have the space in the case and the busses to put in stuff. But running it? Where do you get drivers? What CAN you upgrade that you can't on a genuine Mac?

May 01, 08 - 06:43 pm Comment from: Predrag

There is really no reason why Apple should go below $1000. This is within reach of everyone who wants a computer. If people were willing to pay $1000 ten years ago for a cheap-ass Packard-Bell configuration, they can easily afford a $1000 refurb iMac.

Today, AAPL closed at $180 on the stock market. It is almost double the value 12 months ago (did I mention we're in recession?). It is difficult to come up with a rational reason why Apple would want to venture into rapid expansion of their market share, straining to the point of catastrophic failure its famous support service, when profits are shattering records, as well as Wall street expectations and market share continues to grow.

Macs cost what they cost. Some people think they can't afford them. They will buy PC until next time, when they will buy their first Mac

May 01, 08 - 07:04 pm Comment from: ken1w

If you pay for the Psystar plus Mac OS X Leopard, and add the cost of iLife, and then add the "optional" FireWire and wireless networking, you'll end up paying more than a Mac mini.

What a deal! Can't upgrade normally. The OS does not control the fan. The packaging looks like an eBay purchase... What else?

At some point in the future, Apple should licence their subsidiary company "Filemaker" as a "Mac Compatible" clone maker, allowing them to make form factors that Apple doesn't for whatever reason.
They could resurrect various names like Claris, Centris, Performa: For example, Claris Performa tower and Claris Centris slim-line mid-range desktop systems; "Claris Virtuoso PowerNote 14 & 12" notebooks; Claris PowerWave and PowerCurve SOHO servers. They could also sell and support other OS options, like Windows for the masochists, and one or more Linux distros for the other kind of masochists.
The machines would have their own styling sensibility, but we could still rely on them producing quality, stylish kit being children of Apple.
IT departments, pros and everyone else would then have a choice of hardware supplier, system support options, form factors, price points and style. Plus there would be an expansion of the upgrade component market for OS X ecosystem. Everyone wins!

@Passerby: amen, brother. The proponents of a cheap Mac would destroy Apple.

Apple isn't a cheapo box company, and.. make sure you READ THIS... AREN'T SPECIFICALLY OUT FOR MARKET SHARE!!! They sell their systems in profitable market segments and are VERY profitable at this. Market share will slowly grow, and by this method, their share price definitely isn't suffering. They ARE NOT going to make a cheap ass "mid-tower", so get over it already.

Like Steve said a few years ago (paraphrasing): "I don't think there would be any advantage to Mercedes or BMW putting their logo on a hamburger" Amen.

@Stuart: umm... yeah. What you described is almost exactly the same thing that Michael Spindler tried in the mid 90s, and almost drove Apple to ruin. Not gonna happen again...

(With the exception of the Filemaker scenerio, which ALMOST happened, actually. Read Infinite Loop or Apple by Jim Carlton)

@ Asmodeus

No, it's nothing like what happened under Spindler.

It would be a bit more like how when Apple spun off some of its software business by forming the company Claris (now Filemaker).

What I'm suggesting is that Filemaker, a wholly owned subsidiary company of Apple, becomes a cloner. But it's still basically Apple.

@ Asmodeus again - a mid-level tower system doesn't necessarily have to be built out of rubbish. There is plenty of quality kit out there for a quality system. There's also a whole class of Intel Core processors which Apple doesn't use. Apple could make a quality mid-level tower but they choose not to. Some people DO need the expandability but don't need the massive overkill horsepower of a MacPro.

May 01, 08 - 08:26 pm Comment from: studentrights

@Mac+"I'm talking of a Ghz boosted Mac Mini, with 15 or 17in screen and keyboard, all for $799."

Switchers already have that. Buy a Mac Mini and use your PC monitor, keyboard, and mouse.

How much is a monitor, keyboard, and mouse for a budget PC these days? $100?

All the complainers about Apple not having affordable macs are full of it. If Apple were to cut cost or build a cheaper machine, first it would not be as reliable, and second like all the PC hardware makers they would have to outsource tech support to India to control the future warranty costs. Apple has the best tech support and the most reliable computers in the industry even Consumer Reports thinks so. Let's see if Psystar can build any credibility with it's apparent garbage.

Sounds a lot like my original iMac G5. That "whisper quiet" Mac was so loud, it sounded like an engine run-up test at an airfield. And that was AFTER replacing the fans once!

So... while I'm the biggest Mac fan around, let's not get all cocky about the noise the thing makes. Apple has had their share of making wind tunnel machines as well.

Did anyone try to install Apple's Pro apps?
Pro apps use Mac address to create a key.

@Mac+


So a Mac mini is under powered. Huh. Guess I will have to turn off:

1. iTunes for listening to some good tunes while I work, I turn it up and jam really loud after the store closes
2. PageSender Fax for sending and receiving faxes--a great way to keep a log of all the faxes I get every day,
3. PDFpen for generating Prior Authorization letters to insurance companies
4. Terminal for accessing my pharmacy software on the server (Linux)
5. X11 for running the TDS pharmacy software on the Mac -- I am the first pharmacy to run this software on a Mac (there is a Mac guy that works there)
6. Safari for looking up assorted pharmacy info on the web, as well as accessing my drug wholesaler to order
7. Screen sharing with my technicians to help them with their prescription billing problems
8. Firefox to access a specific drug wholesaler that won't fully support standard web protocol (I would use another wholesaler, but these guys are the best)
9. Address book for doctor and hospital contacts
10 . Excel for my daily reports and cash register balancing
11. Quicken for writing checks
12. iCal for keeping employees requests for time off and other special events
13. MarinerWrite for making schedules for my employees
14. TextEdit for generating simple letters and sale signs
15. Calculator for simple math

(all these run concurrently with virtually no problem)

and

16. Halo for some off time fun
17. iChat for video chats with the family at home (and to demo to everyone that comes in what a Mac can do)
18. Google Earth is such a great way to dream and look at all the places I would love to visit

plus some one-offs that I don't use regularly

Have you used a Mac mini on a regular basis as I do. I don't think so.

May 01, 08 - 11:24 pm Comment from: MacLovin

Ok, so you buy a Dell desktop: $700 + Antivirus-$80 + Antispyware-$30 + Keyboard, Mouse, Monitor etc + Upgrade the RAM to 2 GB, . = about the same as a refurb iMac, or New Mini! Buying a PC is not cost effective. You can even use your old USB keyboard and mouse if you needed to on your new Mac. They come out to be w/in $100 of each other. It's not cost effective to buy a PC anymore.

May 02, 08 - 12:18 am Comment from: phantasmosxmagnum

@Pharmacy Owner: I'd have to agree that for "most folks" even the base Mini should do them just fine. As long as you don't want to "try" to use it like it was a MacPro 8 Core! It "only" slouches in the video card dept. Here's a link to an interesting posts that all the Hackint0sh guys busted their tushes to get them to run right and when al else failed they just went out and bought a new Mini and were so happy! The only thing that the hackint0sh did was convince them to get a real Mac, sit back and enjoy the bliss. Oh yeah, an these posts aren't that old! LOL
http://forum.insanelymac.com/index.php?showtopic=87135&hl;