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ha ha ha let the convicts enjoy themselves.

Jul 04, 08 - 08:27 am Comment from: ron

Enjoy it while you still can. God Bless America.

Jul 04, 08 - 08:37 am Comment from: MCCFR

A Happy Birthday to you all from the UK where our beer is warm and our teeth are crooked as nature intended.

Try not to party too hard! When we come back, we'd like to find the place in the same way we left it.

Jul 04, 08 - 08:41 am Comment from: Martin

happy whatever !

Jul 04, 08 - 08:44 am Comment from: Martin

like 95% of the worlds population, I'm not celebrating independence day, please don't forget that u have many non US readers.

Happy Birthday to the greatest nation on Earth!
So say we all!

Mark S.,

I DO believe it!

Poor Zimbabweans ... they really envy the US

Martin writes, "I'm not celebrating independence day, please don't forget that u have many non US readers."

Anyone who cares about freedom and democracy should be thankful there *is* a United States to stand with them. In 1989 the Tien an Min protesters in China erected a "Liberty" statue modeled on our own Statue of Liberty. Imperfect though we are, we continue to inspire. So indulge us one day a year to celebrate our independence.

Jul 04, 08 - 09:31 am Comment from: limey

"hang out with family and friends, watch fireworks, and celebrate "

I second that!!

However, @\ln, Australia was populated by convicts, the States was populated by persecuted conservative religious zealots,

Jul 04, 08 - 09:36 am Comment from: shen

" ron
Enjoy it while you still can. God Bless America."

all americans should spend today thinking about the times when we used to have liberties, before the dark times, before the bushies. back when we had rights besides the freedom to be armed. you know when we had the little things, like wire tap free phones, habeas corpus, free speech everywhere and not just in special zones.....

http://mondoglobo.ning.com/group/questionauthority/forum/topic/show?id=1509099:Topic:2937

just saying, if America really was the land of the free rather than the home of the sedate american idol watcher, we would have more to celebrate.

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

As a UK citizen I celebrate with you, because without the 4th, I would likely not be speaking English, probably Russian or German instead.

And I certainly wouldn't be saying just what I want to say either....

Cheap shots at the US are always easy, but equally easily ignored.

Cheers & best wishes to all Americans!

But, perhaps this is a good time (when you celebrate one ancient achievement of freedom), to look at your (our) freedom today. People all around the world (and especially Americans) are now more than ever dependent and not free. Just today it's fossil fuel and reckless corrupt governments.

I'd honestly love to see some CHANGE TOWARD SANITY AND FREEDOM in the country that is the world's largest polluter, waste producer, fossil burner and war starter (to get more oil).

Peace & good luck.

Jul 04, 08 - 09:38 am Comment from: shen

"However, @\ln, Australia was populated by convicts, the States was populated by persecuted conservative religious zealots,"

so what is the darwin score then? the states still are populated by persecuted (in their own minds) conservative religious zealots, but are the Aussies criminals?

@ Raymond in DC - get over yourself and your country. The USA is not the "defender of the world" as they like to think, and they don't have anything like a monopoly on freedom and justice. One has more personal freedoms and more human rights in many other Western countries (like Canada and most of Europe), than one does in the USA.

Have a happy Independence Day, but stay away from that "freedom" Kool-Aide the USA is handing out. Wake up to the realities of the 21st century instead of living in some re-created fantasy of what things were like in 1776.

Jul 04, 08 - 09:44 am Comment from: JAYGEE

How dare the Americans celebrate independence from the UK. Shameful

Just kidding

Jul 04, 08 - 09:57 am Comment from: ABQ Peter

in case you are not aware of it, one of the ways we declared our independence was to write "july 4, 1776" at the top of the declaration instead of the way the europeans wrote it.

@ron

"Enjoy it while you still can. God Bless America."

No doubt, If Czar Obama and the LibTards get their is Marxist wishes, the govt will be your higher power. They will provide you with everything, cradle to grave. Just hand over your paycheck and they will take care of the rest. They will even re-distribute your wealth FOR you, with out you even asking, because they know what is right for meager little you. They will protect you and make sure you are entitled to everything, even if others have to pay for it..... but NOT them.

They will do this because you are weak and need Czar Obama and Queen Michelle to protect you. Over Privileged, Enabled, Hypocritical Elitist AssClowns. Do dont believe the HYPE.

Now he is weighing changing his cut and run view on Iraq now that things really are doing better there, lapel flag pins, next it's drilling for oil...... whatever the pollsters tell Czar Obama...... Empty SUIT, empty head. Without a tele-prompter and 20 speech writers, he makes Bush look really smart. Great Orator, but so wasn't Marx. This guy has never really done anything except hang out with terrorists, racist reverends and shady characters... serious judgement flaws, talk is very very cheap.
However,
Don't talk about my ears, my wife (she should be muzzled and sent to racist sensitivity training), my beliefs, my views, dont' use my middle name. Don't ask me any questions of relevance, just listen to my message of HOPE (hype)....
I will use public funds.... Oh wait I can make SO MUCH MORE from private funds, 100s of millions more..... because the republicans MAY attack my race. NObama, nobody really cares about your race. YOU make it an issue. They take issue with the fact you have nothing to offer but flip-flop extremist liberal views and empty promises of nothing, wrapped in a well delivered
speech.
Do don't believe the HYPE.

Our country is not perfect but,
I am PROUD and (later in the day change what I say) even REALLY PROUD of our country, always have been.

I have a daughter born on this great day......

GOD BLESS AMERICA

Jul 04, 08 - 10:11 am Comment from: ron

shen, just drop it. Have fun for one day.

You're going to be dead a long time.

GOD BLESS AMERICA. From one who came here legally and made it.

@Shen

Remember Echelon and Carnivore ...... Enacted by Clinton, huge expansion of the NSA by Clinton.
Leftist LibTards only want free speech for themselves, and they will strip you of your rights to get it.
The Libs control 95% of the media. and they still want to muffle things like talk radio. They will re-write facts and history to suit their needs. Education is filled with these clueless morons. Liberal blithering is boring moronic drivel.

@Shen

It looks like your Darwin Score......
Just at or above Knuckles Dragging........ Nah definitely BELOW

Sorry had to grade you on a curve.

Jul 04, 08 - 10:16 am Comment from: ron

Obamination = Change.

That's all you'll have left in your pockets - maybe.

GBA times 100.

Jul 04, 08 - 10:17 am Comment from: Macromancer

"please don't forget that u have many non US readers."

How can we? They take possible opportunity to remind us.

Happy 4th everyone.

Ron,
My wife is a naturalized US citizen also who works hard and made it here, we pay a boatload of taxes and health insurance to make up for others that don't.
Congratulations on citizenship, my fellow American. I really like traveling overseas but I kiss the ground when I am back on US soil....

@ Jeremy - "get over yourself and your country. The USA is not the "defender of the world" as they like to think, and they don't have anything like a monopoly on freedom and justice. One has more personal freedoms and more human rights in many other Western countries (like Canada and most of Europe), than one does in the USA.

Have a happy Independence Day, but stay away from that "freedom" Kool-Aide the USA is handing out. Wake up to the realities of the 21st century instead of living in some re-created fantasy of what things were like in 1776."

Since you apparently can't spell 'Kool-Aid' correctly, you're obviously not an American. Who cares what you think about our country, our war of independence, our society or about anything else, for that matter?

God bless America. And God especially bless our troops (AND their families) who collectively defend our nation and our way of life!

Jul 04, 08 - 10:26 am Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

Oh, for the love of God, will all of you just shut up?

For those of us here in the USA, Happy Independence Day. Have a few beers, light up the grills, eat burgers and enjoy the fireworks. And for one day, forget about the government, our economy, politics etc. and have a nice day off from the office.

For those readers outside the USA, we know you don't celebrate this day, but remember that whether or not we agree on things, I think we all believe in the cause of freedom, which here in the US is what today is all about. So despite what some of you might think of us, I invite you to celebrate with us for this cause alone. And of course, at the very least, have a few beers, light up the grills, eat burgers etc. etc.

Jul 04, 08 - 10:44 am Comment from: ron

This Henry van Dyke poem is written in 10'' letters above my living room.

America for Me

'Tis fine to see the Old World and travel up and down
Among the famous palaces and cities of renown,
To admire the crumblyh castles and the statues and kings
But now I think I've had enough of antiquated things.

So it's home again, and home again, America for me!
My heart is turning home again and there I long to be,
In the land of youth and freedom, beyond the ocean bars,
Where the air is full of sunlight and the flag is full of stars.

Oh, London is a man's town, there's power in the air;
And Paris is a woman's town, with flowers in her hair;
And it's sweet to dream in Venice, and it's great to study Rome;
But when it comes to living there is no place like home.

I like the German fir-woods in green battalions drilled;
I like the gardens of Versailles with flashing foutains filled;
But, oh, to take your had, my dear, and ramble for a day
In the friendly western woodland where Nature has her sway!

I know that Europe's wonderful, yet something seems to lack!
The Past is too much with her, and the people looking back.
But the glory of the Present is to make the Future free--
We love our land for what she is and what she is to be.

Oh, it's home again, and home again, America for me!
I want a ship that's westward bound to plough the rolling sea,
To the blessed Land of Room Enough, beyond the ocean bars,
Where the air is full of sunlight and the flag is full of stars.

Henry Van Dyke

Jul 04, 08 - 10:46 am Comment from: ron

Actually, just this line.

Where the air is full of sunlight and the flag is full of stars.

Jul 04, 08 - 10:51 am Comment from: Zune Tang®

Really great comments, Streetool. It reads like you pounded that one out on a Compaq 386 running Windows 3.11 for Workgroups.

I was confused about who to vote for, but you've made the choice easy. Your keen sense, resistance to empty hype and finger on the pulse of what's best for ordinary Americans (not those smug and pretentious elitists) means one thing: Streetool for president of the United States in 2008! Is it too late to get her name on the ballot in all 50 states? I call on all American MDN readers to print Streetool's magnificent post (if you know how to print documents from your stupid MACs) and distribute it in your neighborhoods as you gather names on a petition to get Streetool on the ballot. No time to lose.

For you assclown MAC-tards who buy overpriced, proprietary toy computers for elitists that don't get it, basically what the wise Streetool is saying is OBAMA IS REALLY, REALLY BAD AND TERRIBLE THINGS WILL HAPPEN JUST LIKE THE MONSTER THAT LIVES UNDER YOUR BED WILL ATTACK YOU IN YOUR SLEEP IF YOU DON'T BEHAVE.

As you speak with your neighbors be sure to use name calling like "LibTards" and the super insightful fear-ridden clichés Streetool has generously provided us. I especially like the "elitist" charge. Obama is like you MAC dorks who think you're so superior with your pretty little sissy computers and I-Pods.

Streetool '08!

Your potential. Our passion.™

Independence Day is an important reminder of what personal freedom is all about. It would do the mandarins in DC a lot of good to remember that if they persist in removing freedoms as they have done for the last decade then they will be in danger of another revolution for freedom from oppression. And this is so easily seen by those of us outside the USA and not part of your culture.

Have a happy 4th of July and remember what it was all about in the first place. Don't let fear be your tyrant.

"When we come back, we'd like to find the place in the same way we left it."

Don't forget you lost the war. The only time you're coming back is to visit DisneyLand.

all americans should spend today thinking about the times when we used to have liberties, before the dark times, before the bushies. back when we had rights besides the freedom to be armed. you know when we had the little things, like wire tap free phones, habeas corpus, free speech everywhere and not just in special zones.....

Back when alcohol was illegal.

Back when women couldn't vote.

Back when there was slavery.

Back when we used "the stocks" for punishment.

Back when the mere accusation of witchcraft could get you executed.

Back when there really wasn't religious freedom, and being associated with the wrong groups would get you ostracized.

Back when exposing more than your face, hands, and feet in public were considered risqué.

Back when we were steamrolling over the native population.

etc. etc.

Ah yes, to the freedoms of the old days!

@Ferf Muckmeyer -

Thank you for providing one of the only rational posts here. I think most of these people would start a political debate at a funeral.

Seriously folks, chill out, go outside and enjoy some (hopefully) nice weather, eat some barbeque, toss back a couple brews, and help America celebrate our collective birthday.

@Mark S.

???Our birthday was on Tuesday July 1st, eh!

Happy B-day to all my American friends. We tease you, laugh at you, chide you, slap you up-side the head but we do that with the love one has for one's brother....as people all do in close knit families. It is a time for fun and celebration.

P.S. And when you tease us, laugh at us, chide us, slap us up-side the head, try not to do it so hard....lol.

Yes, Jimithy, go out & celebrate the nice weather. And American way of life. And American food.

Polluted air and toxic waters, egoistic consumerism with no limits of excess, GM junk food and piss in beer bottles. Hooray!

" One has more personal freedoms and more human rights in many other Western countries (like Canada and most of Europe), than one does in the USA."

What are you basing that on? The population of the UK is one of the most watched and least free in Europe. Spying on it's citizens by the government and even city councils is commonplace.

In Sweden, the government can, without a warrant, tap any cross border phone call or read any email or fax.

And just how many rights do you have in European Eastern Bloc countries?

I could go on. In the US you have a lot of people who value their freedom and object loudly at any interference with it. In Europe people are used to being ruled by tyrants, so just put up with things no American would.

Jul 04, 08 - 11:38 am Comment from: MacLovin

I'm going to play with fireworks today.... hopefully I don't blow my hands off!!!

Jul 04, 08 - 11:44 am Comment from: 3D Danny, man from 2020

streetfool,

"They will do this because you are weak and need Czar Obama and Queen Michelle to protect you. Over Privileged, Enabled, Hypocritical Elitist AssClowns. Do dont believe the HYPE."

That kind of free speech is harmful to our Nation. Try opposing the people you disagree with using intelligence. Its a lot harder I know, but OUR country is worth it.

I also can say Bless America, and mean it...

Jul 04, 08 - 11:53 am Comment from: ron

@ 3D Danny, man from 2020

Can you also say 'God' Bless America and mean it as the Founders did?

Jul 04, 08 - 12:00 pm Comment from: Triumph the Insult Comic Dog

"Back when women couldn't vote."

Hey, you say that like it was a bad thing!

Yeh-heh-heh-heh-hehessssssssss . . .

Happy INDEPENDENCE Day ! ! !

Jul 04, 08 - 12:01 pm Comment from: Andy

Happy July 4th!

However, inbetween the BBQ and beers, remember WHY America was founded, and don't EVER let Washington DC become a government King George III would be proud of, otherwise the USA's existence and purpose become meaningless.

Remember Jefferson's words, "If we were instructed from Washington [DC] when to reap and sow; we would soon want bread."

In other words, don't let '1984' become any more of a reality than it already has.

Food for thought. Enjoy the day!

> Happy Birthday to the greatest nation on Earth!

Surely that is not for 4th July but for 14th July!

de Villiers

So I suppose Bender would rather whine on the internet about the obvious underbelly of humanity, while undoubtedly sitting upon his throne stitched from bitterness and hypocrisy.

Seriously, lighten up for one day.

Jul 04, 08 - 12:33 pm Comment from: shen

"" One has more personal freedoms and more human rights in many other Western countries (like Canada and most of Europe), than one does in the USA."

What are you basing that on? The population of the UK is one of the most watched and least free in Europe. Spying on it's citizens by the government and even city councils is commonplace.

In Sweden, the government can, without a warrant, tap any cross border phone call or read any email or fax."

i am lost, how is this different from america today?

"Can you also say 'God' Bless America and mean it as the Founders did?"

which founders? Paine who said that god was the only evil? or Franklin the Deist? or Jefferson who said that man would not be free until the last king was strangled with the entrails of the last priest?

the "founded on god" story of America has only 2 problems. 1. if it is true, it is no reason to remain so, and 2. it isn't true.

sorry, i can't give it a rest, as long as fools like you spout lies and ignorance about things you know nothing about, then i will be here to call your bluff. like one of those founders "I have sworn . . . eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."

all your ignorant ideologies are thus fair game. i will rest when you and your kind are no longer fools.

Jul 04, 08 - 12:35 pm Comment from: Andy

@Jimithy

Yes, today is a celebration, but America's future is a serious matter. With words like 'democracy' and 'freedom' so overused and misappropriated that they've become hollow it's important for any American to at let spend a minute reflecting on WHY they even have an Independence Day.

Remain unconcerned and ignorant and you'll get the government you richly deserve.

Jul 04, 08 - 12:45 pm Comment from: Jim - TIV

God Bless America! Have a great Fourth of July everyone. Eat some, laugh a lot, spend time with friends and family, play some, say a prayer for those in government service, and don't forget to send up a prayer for the troops.

Jul 04, 08 - 01:04 pm Comment from: ron

shen, are you from China or Russia?

Jul 04, 08 - 01:05 pm Comment from: neomonkey

GOD BLESS AMERICA (translation) -

May the deity you so primitively worship be perceived as treating your nation-state with favoritism!

What kind of men were the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence and who, by their signing, committed an act of treason against the crown?
These were men of substantial property. They had economic security as few men had in the 18th century. Each had more to lose from revolution than he had to gain by it.
The penalty for treason was death by hanging. And remember: the British fleet was already in New York Harbor. They were sober men. Raise up by the Lord to perform a sacred work. It was principle, not property, that had brought these men to Philadelphia.
Stephan Hopkins, from Rhode Island, was a man past 60. As he signed with a shaking pen, he declared: "My hand trembles, but my heart does not."
Even before the list was published, the British marked down every member of Congress suspected of having put his name to treason. All of them became the objects of vicious manhunts.
- Francis Lewis, New York delegate saw his home plundered and his estates completely destroyed by British soldiers. Mrs. Lewis was captured and treated with great brutality. She died from the effects of her abuse.
- Philips Livingstone had all his great holdings in New York confiscated.
- Robert Morris, merchant prince of Philadelphia, delegate and signer, met Washington's appeals and pleas for money year after year. He made and raised arms and provisions which made it possible for Washington to cross the Delaware at Trenton.
- William Ellery, Rhode Island delegate, saw his property and home burned to the ground.
- Thomas Nelson, signer of Virginia, was at the front in command of the Virginia military forces. With British General Charles Cornwallis in Yorktown, fire from 70 heavy American guns began to destroy Yorktown piece by piece. Lord Cornwallis and his staff moved their headquarters into Nelson's home. While American cannonballs were making a shambles of the town, the house of Governor Nelson remained untouched. Nelson turned in rage to the American gunners and asked, "Why do you spare my home?" They replied, "Sir, out of respect to you." Nelson cried, "Give me the cannon!" and fired on his magnificent home himself, smashing it to bits. But Nelson's sacrifice was not quite over. He had raised $2 million for the Revolutionary cause by pledging his own estates. When the loans came due, a newer peacetime Congress refused to honor them, and Nelson's property was forfeited. He was never reimbursed. He died, impoverished, a few years later at the age of 50.
Lives, fortunes, honor!!
Of those 56 who signed the Declaration of Independence, nine died of wounds or hardships during the war. Five were captured and imprisoned, in each case with brutal treatment. Several lost wives, sons or entire families. One lost his 13 children. Two wives were brutally treated. All were part of manhunts and driven from their homes. Twelve signers had their homes completely burned. Seventeen lost everything they owned. Yet not one defected or went back on his pledged word.
--- And, finally, there is the New Jersey Signer, Abraham Clark. He gave two sons to the officer corps in the Revolutionary Army. They were captured and sent to that infamous British prison ship afloat in New York Harbor known as the hell ship "Jersey," where 11,000 American captives were to die. The younger Clarks were treated with a special brutality because of their father. One was put in solitary and given no food. With the end almost in sight with the war almost won, no one would have blamed Abraham Clark for acceding to the British request when they offered him his sons' lives if he would recant and come out for the King and Parliament. The utter despair in this man's heart, the anguish in his very soul, must reach out to each one of us down through these 220+ years with he answer: "No."
The 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence proved by their every deed that they made no idle boast when they composed the most beloved line in American history. "And for the support of this Declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
The declaration is one of the most noble and beautiful political documents in human history. The closest thing we have to Scripture written by man is: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness?"
They were forged by great sacrifice. These are living words that satisfy the deepest cries for liberty in the human spirit. "Sacred honor" isn't a phrase we use much these days, but every American's life is touched by the greatness of this, the Founders' legacy. It is freedom, tested by blood, and watered with tears.
Oh beautiful for heroes proved
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved,
And mercy more than life!

"Happy 4th"

"Surely that is not for 4th July but for 14th July!"

It's not really a significant date. It's easy to get French to surrender, even to each other. In fact in some parts of France, especially near her borders, "je me rends" is a greeting, just like "bonjour".

"i am lost, how is this different from america today?"

The difference is that this goes on to a much greater extent in Europe, and always has, and you just take it because you're used to centuries of oppression.