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I say they are brining back OpenDoc technology. Safari will morph to Cyberdog X.

With obesity being such a big of an issue in the States, perhaps Apple has to release a Diet Leopard

woz is back! he was all about efficiency!

Jun 27, 08 - 03:16 pm Comment from: Harvey

After reading this article, I right-clicked on Mail, clicked on show package contents, searched for files named "designable.nib" and deleted all of them. Mail shrank from 289 MB to 87 MB.

The "designable.nib" files are analogous to sponges left in the patient after surgery. I found them in applications that are part of Leopard, but not in any iLife or iWork applications. Taking them out doesn't change a thing but disk space.

Extracting the Intel code isn't worth it. There's not enough difference to matter.

Jun 27, 08 - 03:18 pm Comment from: Roberto

Mail.app is 288.9 MB! Mon Dieu!

ZFS anyone?

I'm still on Tiger, and my mail.app is 7.5 MB after removing all the extra languages.

To Harvey,

Q: If I delete them -- will my Mail run faster?
Did yours?
Any adverse affects?

Thanks.

- Doga

Jun 27, 08 - 03:30 pm Comment from: fastmemory

Without more info, I couldn't say I'm comparing the same things, but in Leopard .3 I'm showing only 24.9 mb for mail, less all languages other than English and American English.

Wouldn't removal of these "designable.nib" files be possible for 10.5 via Software Update? Doesn't sound like the space savings need be 10.6-specific then, in which case it's a bit misleading to tout that as a "feature" of Snow Leopard.

I recently upgraded my mom's old iBook to Leopard, and there's not much space left on its hard drive now. If this "designable.nib" thing is indeed the solution, I'd prefer Apple fix this problem with a Software Update, rather than me going in and mucking about with stuff that could break things (though I may still give it a try anyway).

Damn, argh...so that's what they are. I found those .nib files in my iTunes library, they had replaced some m4a files. iTunes would not play them unless I delete them and drop the original m4p files back in. Weird, and there are some other file extensions too doing the same thing. Good thing is that this is happening only on one computer.

I'm sure cleanapp or appzapper will pick up on this and add a "kill the nibs" feature. I'd rather wait for them to engineer a solution than try myself.

Simple, deleting all that legacy software for PPC. Didn't you get the memo?

Jun 27, 08 - 03:46 pm Comment from: piratZafryki

Hm, this is interesting. Safari shrunk from 60+ MB to 11 MB after getting rid of languages other than English and Polish, and removal of remaining designable.nib files.

If only developers of Monolingual would incorporate designable.nib removal routine into their otherwise excellent software…

Never heard of Monolingual? Go get it from VersionTracker - your Mac will loose over 3GB of language resources once all is said and done.

Jun 27, 08 - 03:57 pm Comment from: AAPLguy

@ YoYo

If you're seeing those in your iTunes library that sound's like there could be a directory issue on the drive. I'd back up and then run Disk Utilities or Disk Warrior on the drive if I were you.

Removing all designable.nib files on a full Leopard install will only free up about 30MB of hard drive space, so this is hardly a significant factor in the smaller size of the Snow Leopard OS. 30MB is a mere drop in the bucket these days.

Anyone else notice that one of the languages in Monolingual is "Klingon"?

couldn't it just be they are all Intel only? they just dropped the PPC part?

Jun 27, 08 - 04:20 pm Comment from: fastmemory

I looked at three of the so-called reduced Snow Leopard files, Safari, iChat and calculator. The total shown in the link, after reductions, was 114 mb. Those same three on my PPC .3 shows a present total of 24.9. The Mail app that they show 91, I show 24.9 (only coincidental to the other three examples).

I also did a file search of my computer and did not find any .dib files. Am I on the same page here, or is AppleInsider full of crap?

Jun 27, 08 - 04:21 pm Comment from: Mac-nugget

Easy, they are stripping all the Power PC code

Jun 27, 08 - 04:22 pm Comment from: Cubert

Ampar is going for the cycle.

Jun 27, 08 - 04:23 pm Comment from: Cubert

My guess: trucker speed.

Jun 27, 08 - 04:27 pm Comment from: Ampar

Cubert: "Ampar is going for the cycle." Sounds fab.

Jun 27, 08 - 05:04 pm Comment from: HolyMackerel

Maybe the non-default languages will be able to be installed on the fly.

I, for one, am worried. Remember last year when Jobs demoed the new system: 10.5 looked healthy and robust. In 10.6 I see a gaunt, emaciated collection of system code. I imagine Apple will deny any illness and claim it's "more effecient" and that it's "lighter is better."

Jun 27, 08 - 05:12 pm Comment from: standardmess

DO NOT delete any old .nib file you might find or you will break your application. I don't know anything about this "designable" file, but most .nib files store critical information for constructing an application's interface. (If you use Xcode, they are created by a program called, creatively enough, Interface Builder.)

Perhaps as well as adding No New Features, they are removing a lot of Old ones.

Well we always knew Mac OS X was a bloated mess in need of some cleanup.

Looks like at least one blogger pointed out this Leopard-specific "designable.nib" issue back in December.

…yikes, and apparently it's not just the 30MB of designable.nib files in the /Applications folder – looks like there's 120MB in the System folder, too, as well as other unneeded files lurking about.

Hopefully Snow Leopard's app optimizations involve more than just cleaning up stuff that shouldn't have been there in the first place…

"Q: If I delete them -- will my Mail run faster?"

No. Nib files are loaded on demand, so all the nibs for localizations you're not using only take up disk space, they don't affect launch or running performance.

-jcr

Jun 27, 08 - 08:19 pm Comment from: Greg L

OMG. 289.9 MB for Mail!?! That’s what mine measures.

The designable.nib files issue is overrated though. I just combed thru and deleted every single designable.nib on my entire drive and it only freed up 410 MB of hard drive space. It still doesn't come close to explaining Snow Leopard's space saving advantages.

Why would apple build resolution-independant apps when they haven't updated their cinema displays in ages?!?!
I'm waiting to buy a 30" but i sure as hell don't want one that hasn't been update in ages!

Come on Apple, give me a reason to buy a 30" cinema display!

"OMG. 289.9 MB for Mail!?! That’s what mine measures."

Thank God Apple is taking the time to put this pig on a diet.

Speaking of Mail, how do I get the search bar to do Subject or Author, like in Thunderbird? It is such a hassle to have to click FROM, TO, etc...

Prince McLean and Daniel Dilger have never been photographed together. For that matter, neither have I and George Carlin.

Jun 27, 08 - 10:51 pm Comment from: The Other Steve

Thanks "piratZafryki"!

"Hopefully Snow Leopard's app optimizations involve more than just cleaning up stuff that shouldn't have been there in the first place…"

All this crap is one of Leopard's "Secret Features". And of course Snow Job Leopard just involves fixing things which should have been right to begin with.

Snow Job Leopard,

Can't argue with you. Apparently, the greatest amount of bloat in OS X isn't legacy software for PPC, but the nasty "nibs" and "localization files". That being the case, why would Apple leave this dog vomit in OS X, and why would Apple only offer a cleaned up Sno' Leopard exclusively for Intel-based Macs?

Apple's plan is to coerce users with PPC Macs to pay up and upgrade or live with the mess Apple has left them. It's Steve Jobs' underhanded way of extorting money from Apple's customers. Frankly, I don't know who will replace Jobs when he eventually dies, but I hope that the next person has a soul.

Jun 28, 08 - 01:46 am Comment from: AppleMacMan

Your best bet to be on the safe side is to use XSlimmer to remove excessive language files from programs. Manually removing the .nib files on your own could cause problems.

After using this program I literally recovered a few gigabytes in HD space.

http://www.xslimmer.com



Jun 28, 08 - 03:51 am Comment from: MacTech84

For the people saying that they have dropped PPC support, this is quoted from the AppleInsider article:

"As for the removal of PowerPC code, developers note that Snow Leopard's applications are still currently being delivered as Universal Binaries anyway, and that removal of that extra code has a very limited impact on file size when compared to the results of compressing large XML and graphics files related to interface localization and the complete removal of any unnecessary development NIB files. "

Now I am not saying this is the absolute truth, but if they were actually stripping PPC code, making all applications non-universal apps. How am I writing this from the Safari 4 Developers Preview on a G5. For the nay-sayers I actually am, its a standalone installer I got from a friend, can also be found on the web at certain "torrent" sites. And its hella fast, plus there is too large a base of PPC users still out there. I really think they would not cut us off just that easily....

"I really think they would not cut us off just that easily...."

Poor Naive MacTech84

Think again. Apple needs you to buy a new Mac to keep the "Growth" in Mac sales going. Those who didn't voluntarily upgrade to Intel producing those great "Growth" numbers will be forcibly upgraded.

My mail client is 1.9MBs! I dunno why I keep Mail hanging around somewhere.

is it dawning on you now MacTech84?: Apple doesn't want to support old hardware forever. They have many times forced customers to ditch old hardware and software.

Once everyone has Intel Macs they'll switch you all to an incompatible OS or hardware just to make you buy new stuff all over again.

The "No New Features in Mac OS X" is probably just giving them time to prep Mac OS XI which will be incompatible with Mac OS X, yet only run on 2009+ Wintel Macs, and have a slow crappy emulator for Mac OS X apps, forcing everyone into another upgrade cycle.

Then they''ll port Mac OS XI to run on some wacky non mainstream processor, forcing another hardware upgrade cycle.

Then when they realize that non mainstream processor just isn't competitive, they'll go back to Intel, but with a hardware design incompatible with the old Wintel Macs.

In between Mac OS XII will be launched which will be incompatible with Mac OS XI and run apps through a slow crappy emulator.

And so things will continue for Mac OS X sufferers.

Jun 28, 08 - 06:20 pm Comment from: MacTech84

Naive huh? wow, that is a new one. If anyone here remembers, how many iterations of OS X were there before the G3 was cut? how long did it take to transition away from the Classic environment? If it is made only to support Intel only then why is everything being listed as a universal build? At some point in the future I will be upgrading as I normally do, but the trend that Apple has done is a slow transition away from the older technologies. There is still too large of a PPC base to just cut them off. I would be willing to be they are going to work only on full 64 bit support (G5 only), and further expand on mutiprocessing capabilities. And again, if they were to cut PPC support, why is everything a Universal Build and not just Intel Only? try to negate that....

Jun 28, 08 - 06:41 pm Comment from: fastmemory

I'll bet there are more PPC OS X users, at this point, than Intel users. In 2,3,4 years, no, but now? I'm betting it's 50-50- at the worst, if that. If so, Apple would be crazy to drop PPC on for SL.

Jun 28, 08 - 08:30 pm Comment from: Ampar

"Planned Obsolescence"

Your life must really suck. How sad and pathetic.

Jun 28, 08 - 09:34 pm Comment from: pocketRocket

Holy cow Batman - I just saved 3Gb disk space on my MacBook Pro! Using a combination of Monolingual, designable.nib & XSlimmer, applied in the order that I read about them. Gotta say gaining 3Gb on any laptop is a plus.

"I'll bet there are more PPC OS X users, at this point, than Intel users"

Actually it's 2:1 Intel users. All those PPC users are old fanboys. What are they going to do? Buy a Windows PC?

"Your life must really suck. How sad and pathetic."

Ampar, you're a fanboy. Your life defines Sucking. Changing platforms every few years and Sucking. But you're not so blind that you can't you can see the pattern in Apple's product rollouts, Right?