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Why do the records company bother with this? People are going to get around it no matter what you do. Instead spend more money on the advertising of legal downloading and on education.

This from the DMB website re ripping from their protected CDs:


"Information regarding Downloading Stand Up Songs to iPods

Please follow the instructions below in order to move your content into iTunes and onto an iPod:

If you have a Mac computer you can copy the songs using your iTunes Player as you would normally do."

It then goes on to talk about how to get the mosic from the disc onto Wintel machines using iTunes. Seems there is a difference in how these protected discs are handled by Macs using iTunes and by PCs using iTunes. Can anyone clear this up?

Exactly why won't Apple license FairPlay? Just to protect iPod sales? Just license it to content providers then. What's the big whoop?

You obviously have no clue how business actually works, do you? Thankfully Steve Jobs does, so no, they won't be licensing it anytime soon.

That's to much trouble to worry about.
I'll continue gettgin my songs for free on P2P for the time being.

DRM: one of the most pathetic ideas in all of technology. Pirates will always thwart it, and consumers are harmed by it in a myriad of ways. I will never, ever, buy a copy-protected CD out of principle, and I haven't bought that much from the iTMS either to be honest. I literally hate DRM. It's illogical, pointless, and stupid. Need I say more?

"The company,[Sony], which has sold more than 13 million copy-protected discs to date, is urging people who buy copy-protected titles to write to Apple and demand that the company license its FairPlay DRM for use with secure CDs..."

Just beautiful. Way to go you greedy bastards. Piss off the paying consumer and make it child's play for pirates to swipe the stuff free. Fsking knuckle-heads!

And all this is Apple's fault right Sony/Micro$oft? Why?

I was going to buy a CD today (Leftfield's best of compilation "A Final Hit"), but changed my mind when I saw it was a Sony/BMG release.

It never said on the outside of the packaging if it could be played on a Mac, so I left it on the shelf.

Unfortunately it's not available on iTunes yet (if it ever will be?)

mac users dont have to worry about it..
that what pc users get!
ha!!!

Why make things more complicated than necessary?

Buy the album in the iTMS, fill the iPod with the songs and burn a CD for the stereo at home.

I really do not understand why customers buy these protected CDs at all. Buying these CDs only backs Sony/BMG.

The reason Apple doesn't license it's DRM is that Sony could just open up it's own store. Apple gets left out of the loop. Apple doesn't get any revenue from songs from a Sony store, except it's license.

Just stick to classical music. Nobody gives a shit what you do with that.

How to beat copy protected CD's? Surely everyone knows of Soul seek, bittorrent etc?? A friend of mine said just yesterday how he went into a record shop "for old times sake" and just started laughing to himself at all the people buying music don't get me wrong, if I download an album and keep it, I will buy a legitimate version when it becomes available through iTunes but usually I can't get it on iTunes for quite a while so. If the labels want to screw their customers over & over what do they expect will happen?

These CDs work normally on a Mac. Import the music as normal using iTunes. Easy fix, get a frickin' Mac, F@ck Windows and all it's headaches.

Wake up people it's time to take a stand against shitty products like Microsoft's Windows, think for your selves. YES, it is that simple.

Sony BMG wants Apple to open Fairplay because they are on the loosing side right now.

If Sony, Microsoft or any other company were in Apple's current position, they would not open Fairplay either.

The irony of the title is that business is not fair. Its war.

If Apple's current strategy begins to stop working to their benefit, then they may consider opening Fairply to others.

Lets see.. If we release a copy protected CD, and someone complains then we tell them how to work around the problem. That is like saying, we will keep your money in the safe but if someone complains we will give them the combination? These people are idiots..

"It then goes on to talk about how to get the mosic from the disc onto Wintel machines using iTunes. Seems there is a difference in how these protected discs are handled by Macs using iTunes and by PCs using iTunes. Can anyone clear this up?"

It's very simple... Macs do not use the DRM software that Windows uses... Because the CDs have Windows software on them, they appear like a CD-ROM to a Windows computer, not a Music CD, and the DRM software is tightly bound into Windows Media Player which pays the music... If you put the same CD in a Mac, the Windows CD-ROM stuff is ignored and the CD looks like any other CD in a Mac (audio or ROM), and you can copy the files without problem. There are programs that can bypass Windows DRM... in essence, emulating the Macs methodology, and allowing the files to be read by alternative programs, other than WMP... Sony claims the quality is lower, but that is not always the case.

At any rate, Mac users have no problems with these disks...

It's a problem for Windows users only... If Sony thinks I am going to write Apple and tell them to make their DRM accessible to Windows users without iTunes, they have their heads up their asses... I could care less if morons on Windows have these problems... they have an easy way around it all... They can grow a brain and get a Mac!

this actually encourages piracy to get back at SONY for being dickheads.

So you have to compress the file, burn, and then compress again, degrading the audio quality twice. No thanks.

Good. So that's clear then. Windows users are thieving little rat-bags who distribute their music. Apple Mac users are so trustworthy there is no need for them to experience DRM inconvenience! Hey ho.

Sony must love Apple.

Or Sony are scared of Steve Jobs.

Gotta love it when this DRM doesn't work on a Mac. For once not being Mac compatible is a good thing and I hope this stays that way. Love music? Get a Mac.

I agree that Apple should license FairPlay, but they should be selective about it. That is, they should license it to any online store that wants to use it, any record company who wants it for CDs, but when it comes to Digital Music Players, they shouldn't let anyone else have it except for cases like the ROKR phone. This would cement the iPod as the player of choice, even if it were to lose it's style cache someday. They make very little profit from iTMS anyway, and, because of it's ease of use, I seriously doubt many people would go to the competition. Besides, the money they make from licensing may very well cover or even exceed what they'd lose in iTMS sales. Even if they don't ever decide to license to other online outlets, I really think it would be a mistake not to license to record companies for CDs. They are giving MS a chance to get their foot in the door if they don't.

Can anyone give me a reason why they shouldn't license in this fashion? I'm not trying to be snide in asking this, I just really can't think of any reason not to.

I think it's to do with most Wintel users being logged in as administrator by default, so the copy protection software self-installs without asking (as you'd expect with MS tosh) leaving the user with little choice. If they create a user account that's managed with few rights then the software cannot install and they can rip as normal in iTunes for Windows.

But then, they could just buy a Mac

Let me get this straight. They went to the extra expense of adding DRM to their product and then spent even more money telling their customers how to get around that same DRM? Wouldn't it have just been simpler if they just...oh....I don't know...didn't put the DRM on the product in the first place? WTF?

General feed back I would send them a note like I did about what I think of there copy protection garbage. I also told them they should label there copy protected discs as such so buyers like me and you don't have to buy them in the first place. And they wonder why there sales are going down the tubes. They just don't get it do they.

The real reason Apple doesn't let other music stores play with the iPod is to preserve the user experience. A large part of the iPod's success is because it works seamlessly with iTunes. If you get third parties involved, the usability is threatened.

this is all a plot to get people to buy macs.

Link to a copy of Tim's article:
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/09/22/013800.php

easiest way is just to buy and use a mac. No worries mate!

MW=social as in "Large music label DRM policy is social-ly unacceptable."

It's not Apple's fault that they have a good DRM. Why does Sony put crappy protection on there CD's and then not warn consumers that they are copy protected. Buy from ITMS and forget the CD and you won't have these copy protection problems. Apple got it right and now everyone is trying to put the blame on Apple yet I don't remember anyone helping out Apple when they were down. Apple was only following the DRM requirements that were laid down by the record companies in the first place. So blame the record companies for requiring all of this copy protection DRM crap to begin with. It is all nonsence in the first place.

Jesus, all you have to do to beat the DRM on those CDs on Windows is simply HOLD DOWN THE SHIFT KEY WHEN YOU INSERT THE DISC. That prevents the AutoPlay from running. The DRM is in the AutoPlay. Is this concept rocket science? Why all the complicated workarounds? I like simple solutions.

MDN Magic Word: "section", as in everyone who is getting in a tizzy and wasting time discussing this are ready for a Section 8.

Let's hope that M$ never release a Mac compatible version of their DRM capable music player.

Another point is that when I buy a CD I want to rip it at whatever bitrate I desire. Looks like PC users get dumped with whatever bitrate the label decided to provide the windows media file at (unless it is at a high rate and you can rip it to lower after that).

Luckily I have a mac.

So there is no problem for Mac users. Just import the songs as usual. This is only an issue for Windows users.

<< I agree that Apple should license FairPlay, but they should be selective about it. That is, they should license it to any online store that wants to use it, ....They make very little profit from iTMS anyway, >>

iTMS revenue tripled during the past 12 months. I doubt that it will triple again during the next 12 months, but a double is imminently possible. That would put iTMS revenue at about $1.3 BILLION (net $400 Million before costs) for calendar 2006.

This is what has the record labels in an uproar. Download revenue is growing while CD revenue is declining. At some point in the future, a major portion of their revenue will come via Apple. That puts Apple in control of their business practises, because Apple has no other competition. When that happens, the value added by the record labels disappears (or at the very least declines significantly). This means they no longer have the ability to sign artists with a paltry 8.5% royalty.

This battle is over the continued existence of record labels.

"Sony BMG says it is not trying to prevent consumers from getting music onto iPods."

Sony may not be trying (guess you could say they're almost trying), but you can be 100% sure that MS IS trying to keep music off of iPods - And you can go to the bank on that.

The one thorn in this rose bush that gets me is, the mentality that if MS didn't event it, or doesn't endorse it, its not a standard that the world will or should adopt. Look, the fact that Apple has a player that is, in essence, an MP4 player is really nothing more than a natural progression of the technology from a qualitative standpoint. Everyone adopted MP3 as it arrived, and Apple is the only company that is going down an obviously organic path of less-space-better-quality. So lets spell it out - If the other tech companies would first adopt and implement MP4 [alias AAC], they would find that integrating DRM across all protable audio player platforms would make this whole big deal a much smaller deal. But then, that's what clarifies the real agenda at work here. First make the competition unfair, then proceed to take over the duped masses - again.

About two years ago our in-house production line had the word out that all hard disk based audio would begin to convert to the new world "standard", WAV. Long story short, with the help of a couple of educated co-workers we quickly re-educated the company into the fact that .wav is not any kind of an established world standard for audio, it is only MS Window's built in audio format. To date, the only established world standard, set by the Audio Engineering Society is AIF. (Which, by the way, does not stand for Apple... It stands for Audio Interchange File Format [AIFF]].

There's a word that needs to begin to be associated with MS, and that word is: Disinformation.

In Switchfoot's blog entry, there was a sentence that I've not heard corroborated elsewhere. They claim to have heard that an iTunes update in November will fix this problem. Has anyone else heard that? If so, any ideas what form the fix will take?

Don't bother complaining to the recodrd company just take the disk round to your version of trading standards and tell them that the record company is falsely claiming the copy protected disc to be a CD which it is not as it does not conform to the original specifications for a CD as laid down by Philips nad oddly sony!!!

I think Apple should license its FairPlay DRM like Sony has requested. This would only make the iTunes store bigger.

- Mark

Apple shouldn't license anything until Sony opens Japan and Australia to iTunes and Sony promises to keep the Sony/BMG catalog available to all current and future iTunes stores.

Apple doesn't owe Sony anything. For decades, Sony has been trying to do the same thing Apple has successfully done with with iTunes/iTMS/iPod combo. Only they were using ATRAC/MiniDisc/BetaMax/MemoryStick/Connect and failed miserably.

Posted to Sony's feedback link:

Your unwanted CD copy protection and disingenious attempts to place the attendant inconveniences upon Apple are dishonest and misleading. I should (and will) be able to make full-bit-rate copies of all music I purchase. It is for this reason that I do NOT currently purchase online music. I purchase all my music on CDs and rip via Apple's lossless codec. Isn't that ironic? I buy 100% CDs. Until now, *your* CDs. Not online music. Unfortunately, from this moment on that will not include any CDs published by Sony. I will further be boycotting all Sony products due to this attitude of blame Apple at my inconvenience. I'm sorry to say that this is the case, since for years Sony was a very respected brand for me in nearly all cases. Too bad. Your HC1 camcorder looked extremely sweet. Perhaps a competitor will make a similar one soon. Think again before you attempt to fool increasingly intelligent and information-savvy customers into what is essentially a marketing and business ploy. It won't work. It won't get you a FairPlay license. It won't get my business. Call me the next time your products are created in *my* best interest, not in a strategic marketing ploy. Sony has fallen a long way to resort to such transparent and futile tactics.

MDN magic word: "down" (as in the direction of Sony's stock)

Return EMI's non-Redbook 'CDs' here:

EMI Music Canada
c/o Quality Control
3109 American Drive
Mississauga, Ontario
L4V 1B2

Explain to them that the disc does not work on your Mac or car CD player. Ask for a replacement disc from one of their other territories.

MW: fiscal

Bronfman is the absolute correct person to 'solve' the music industries' problems.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/Oct05.iPodkiller.html

Just the reason why I stopped buying CDs long ago. The music business have only themselves to blame for sliding sales. DRM is just another nail in CDS (and soon DVDs too) coffin. Imagine buying an LP and the record company telling you that you could only play it on their brand player (and inside the cover... not outside before you bought it). Proposterous! And not the most honest. Still smarting over Betamax? FU Sony and all others with this greedy proprietary BS. This is just more corporate fascism. The artist will still be playing and we'll still be listening only without all this nonsense. What ever happened to freedom in the land of the free? Standards should be the universal order of the day. EVERYWHERE IN COMPUTING.
I use Mac at home. Windows (blech!) and Sun at work.

If copy-protection works so well according to these music industry morons, why don't they try a search for songs from some of these copy-protected CDs on P2P networks?

Guess what morons! Every single "copy-protected" song is available for pirating, the only purpose for copy-protection is to piss off the fans who legitimately pay for the music.

DRM'd CDs are a travesty that needs to die a miserable, very public, very expensive, humiliating death. The best way that can happen is a massive consumer revolt as awareness of DRM'd CDs spreads and artists see their music sales shrivel as a result. Then the artists will revolt and EMI, WB, Sony will be left "representing" no one of consequence.

To stop all the whining, Apple should license Fairplay to the labels for the same per-song amount they currently receive FROM the record labels? If they claim that it's unfair, then Apple can say, "We know! You greedy bastards have been screwing us since day one!"

I use Audio Hijack Pro to copy anything I want to.

Write to Apple?! Apple + iTunes is the solution! Fight the music industry & stop buying CD's!

Sony and EMI are idiots, smoking the crack pipe with Microsoft.

Steve Ballmer: "We will make our DRM harder and harder to crack"

Steve Jobs said publically there is no way DRM can work, and repeated efforts to try just end up in failure.

Steve Jobs is right, because it's a simple matter of recording the audio channel. Throwing the files up on P2P networks and trading away.

iTunes is a success because honest people want to reward the artist for their work, but they will only play the economic game as long as they think it's fair.

"If copy-protection works so well according to these music industry morons, why don't they try a search for songs from some of these copy-protected CDs on P2P networks?

Guess what morons! Every single "copy-protected" song is available for pirating, the only purpose for copy-protection is to piss off the fans who legitimately pay for the music."

Great point! DRM CD's are POINTLESS!

This is a Windows iPod user problem, folks. Mac users aren't affected by this. I've bought a few of the "copy protected" CD's and they rip just fine on my Mac. Yet another reason not to use WIndows.

Oh yeah, and what the hell are the Windows XP ads doing on this site?