MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Oct 16, 08 - 05:19 pm Comment from: ron

Apple will keep selling more & more Macs. That's how.

"...then you either haven't been to Wal-Mart lately or you shop there regularly."

Oh, God, that one was beautiful! Thanks, MDN. I really did LOL!

They'll probably do the same thing they would have done when 1979 was the worst, when 1992 was the worst, when 2004 was the worst, etc.

Oct 16, 08 - 05:44 pm Comment from: HolyMackerel

Apple needs a 'Shuffle' for the MacBook crowd. I hope it is coming in January after we all run out of money at Christmas.

Keeping the MacBook price high seems to be leaving space for a Mac-NetBook in January at the $799 price point and below. If not, then please licence the MacOS X to Asus EEE until you're ready to bring out your own - those Asus NetBook sales are not translating into MacBook sales, so make $20 and give them a taste.

Oct 16, 08 - 05:59 pm Comment from: MacIrish

‘worst economic crisis since the Great Depression?’

Nobody can tell until they see it from the bottom. All the economic prognostication is just so much hyperbole. My parents went through the Depression, and from the stories they've told me over the years, this isn't like it at the moment. Will it get that bad? You won't be able to know until we get there - IF we get there.

However, a solid company, making a solid product, with a solid and proven marketing strategy, and most importantly selling products that are worth what you pay for them, will always sell those products.

With all the rest of the computer makers, garbage is still garbage - paying less for it doesn't make it 'non-garbage'.

Craptop loaded with crapware. Free viruses!!!

Or, buy a Mac and use it to outrun your competitors..

It's only 'the worst since the great depression' until the libs can get Obama elected. Then all you'll hear about is how things miraculously are looking up.

Worst economic crisis since the 1930s? What planet are these guys from. We're not even technically in a recession yet... people have short memories, I'm in my 40s and have seen 5 "market crashes". Everything is always the worst ever... give me a break.

They'll probably do the same thing they would have done [...] when 1992 was the worst

Put John Sculley back in charge??

Oct 16, 08 - 06:08 pm Comment from: R

This credit crisis is affecting those most who made crappy financial decisions and couldn't afford the loan they got. They weren't exactly the ones with spending cash for new computers either-- unless they kept charging on their credit cards either.

Unless someone's lost their job, not much has changed in a practical sense for most folks. If people are confident they'll keep their job, there's little reason to stop spending altogether.

‘worst economic crisis since the Great Depression?’

When we have soup lines, shanty towns, and people selling their personal belongings via cardboard signs, then we can talk about the Depression.

"After a slew of rumors..." Therese Poletti blathers for MarketWatch.

'MacDailyNews Take: "Slew of rumors?" No. One rumor, from a single source, and then a slew of articles covering that lone rumor. As usual."'


Thank you, MDN.

MacDailyNews Take: Apple won't bother unless Applesque margins somehow magically appear.

To add: how would chasing unprofitable markets help Apple during an economic downturn?

Apple should stay right where they're at. And get the word out of Mac's lower cost-of-ownership!! Nobody enjoys "running costs", like say anti-virus software subscriptions....

"Apple may be making a high-stakes gamble by not addressing the economy head-on with lower prices for its products..." Therese Poletti spews for MarketWatch.

This is why Therese is a 'journalist' for MarketWatch and not the head of a company with a market cap of 90B+...

Note to Therese: you don't understand the difference between investors / capitalists / risk-takers and employees, so please stop commenting on things you know nothing about.

@Nutcracker

"Apple may be making a high-stakes gamble by not addressing the economy head-on with lower prices for its products..." Therese Poletti spews for MarketWatch."

This is why Therese is a 'journalist' for MarketWatch and not the head of a company with a market cap of 90B+...

Note to Therese: you don't understand the difference between investors / capitalists / risk-takers and employees, so please stop commenting on things you know nothing about."

GOD DAMN BABY GIRL!!

WELL SAID

Any moron that says this is the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression has obviously forgotten about the late 1970s. Inflation was absolutely through the roof, there was a major gas crisis, interest rates were running at 21%, etc, etc. All we have today is a recession and a bunch of idiots in the media trying to spread FUD.

This thing is over when Barack Obama and the Democrats bring us New Deal 2.0 right after the January swearing in ceremonies. Apple has to hold on for a few more months.

American prosperity is on its way back.

R2 how's the kool aid?

mac user 47, how's the two simultaneous foreign wars, record deficits, job losses, $10 trillion debt, sky high gas prices, housing collapse and overall economic peril under the "fiscal conservative" president with "executive experience" that you helped re-elect?

@R2

You may as well forget it on this board. People here cannot for the life of them see idiot boy McCain and his dumbass sidekick for what they are. Somehow those "elitist" Dems are far worse than the incompetent, retarded Republicans that have driven your country into the poorhouse and alienated the rest of the world... I shall never be able to figure you Yanks out.

I just dashed off a missive to Therese Poletti of MarketWatch to lay into her for not getting her facts right, and for not doing her homework. As reported by Phillip Elmer-DeWitt of Fortune Magazine, the $800 MacBook rumor was spawned by a frigtard blogger by the name of Duncan Riley (of his frigtard blog The Inquisitr). As reported by DeWitt, Riley apparently arrived at this fact by anatomic extraction, and completely lacking any facts to substantiate it. Yet, frigtards like Therese Poletti ran with the story without doing something that is journalism 101: be skeptical of your sources, verify all facts independently or don't run the story.

She did just the opposite.

The beauty of the Internet is for the first time, schmucks like me can talk back to a journalist, and hold them accountable for doing an unprofessional job. And that's just what I did. If enough of us biatch-slap sloppy journalists, perhaps they will come to realize that with great power comes great responsibility.

Yes, I'm more of a fanboy than I'd like to admit. So is MDN. But at least MDN carefully documents what journalists report, keep an excellent log of their mis-statements, and then shoves this back in their arrogant faces.

Sticking to the man can feel really good sometimes. So Therese, how does it feel, biatch?

Apple is doomed. Nobody will buy these high priced laptops when they can get a 399 dollar machine that does the same thing. Right?

Please tell me: how the freak did this message thread go off the reservation from an article about Apple and into the morass of Presidential politics? Please people, stay on-topic fer chrissakes.

If you step back and take a hard look, I think you'll conclude we're being played by both sides. I trust neither candidate, and if there is a "none of the above" lever to push on election day, that's what I'm doing. Otherwise, I'll drop in a write-in vote for either Jello Biafra or Robert Tilton. Or maybe Wendy O. Williams.

Either way, prepare to grab your ankles and choose your poison. Either candidate is a bad alternative. Remember that political parties exist for one reason: to win elections at all costs. We've become a country of partisans, not Americans. We don't work together any more, but instead are at cross purposes. You're either red or blue. Why can't we be Americans instead? If you wonder why other countries are eating our lunch, it's because we've forgotten to work together, instead being so selfish.

Sad.

The mess we're in today is completely man-made. This didn't have to happen. But the collective greed, incompetence and selfishness of Republicans and Democrats alike fueled all this. If both sides worked together instead of being so self-absorbed, perhaps all this could have been avoided. Instead, our children will spend years toiling to fix what never should have been broken to begin with.

While Congress doles out money like a drunken sailor to Wall Street, the underlying problems of investment banks and hedge funds using credit swaps and derivatives goes unchecked. Nowhere have I seen any action by Congress, the SEC or other government bodies to mandate that these toxic instruments be banned. It's not like we weren't warned. Warren Buffet and Charles Munger of Berkshire Hathaway have been railing about this for years. But in the short-sighted greed that is Wall Street and Washington, it fell on deaf ears.

And now you're paying the price. When you go to retire, will the funds you had worked so hard to earn be there? Trust me, there's plenty of blame to go around. On both sides.

Oct 16, 08 - 08:15 pm Comment from: Cascadians

The iTablet will be a reality in January.

"When we have soup lines, shanty towns, and people selling their personal belongings via cardboard signs, then we can talk about the Depression."

Elect Obama. that'll come soon enough.

Oct 16, 08 - 08:41 pm Comment from: ABQ Peter

the new deal did not get us out of the great depression, by the way. world war ii did, unfortunately.

How Apple will cope? Let's see, 20 Billion dollars in the bank and NO DEBT! Seems pretty easy to me how they'll cope. Also the fact that there products are out selling everyone else might help too, DUH!!!!

This guy is an idiot!!!!

Apple survived the Jimmy Carter years (which make today look like massive growth). They survived, the mild depression of During the first Bush presidency, they survived the .com bust under Clinton and they will thrive through this mild recession (assuming we enter one, as the last quarter showed slow growth, a recession is technically at least 3- months away. They have cash, so credit scares will not hurt them. Their products are competitively priced and they have larger margin's than their competitors. Though no company is recession proof, I would say that Apple is in a better position than 99% of the companies out there.

The real question is are we going to let election posturing push us into a real recession. Look at every recession cycle, he dems and their friends in the press try to tell us that the economy is in the tank, only to revise the estimates in January. Don't get me wrong, congress has really botched the banks and is only applying a 750 billion dollar band aid to make sure you don't blame them and kick them out in november. But, unless you are a poorly managed mortgage company (or someone who bought a house you can't afford, you will be fine (like Apple).

In a few years we will be looking back on this like we do the black monday in 1989, when they all screamed the sky is falling, but when as a percentage the drops in the dow aren't even in the top ten of all time. After the election we will magically find that 5% unemployment is not close to the 13% in the 70s or the 30's. Inflation at 3-6% does no come close to the double digit inflation of the 70's. we will remember that even at $4 a gallon gas is cheaper and more readily available than it was in the 70's (when adjusted for inflation of course). And those people who lost a lot of value in their homes will discover that 10 years from now they have equity once again.

How will Apple survive, it will probably grow as will the US GDP. Sure this slowdown is going to hurt but once it gets framed in history, we will discover that it may not even be the worst economy in the last decade - A decade that has been very good to Apple.

Oct 16, 08 - 11:38 pm Comment from: payrolldude

‘worst economic crisis since the Great Depression?’

No, it is the worst economic crisis since the Carter era.

Somehow, I think Apple will survive the economic crisis and whoever is elected president.

Oct 17, 08 - 12:08 am Comment from: alansky

Well, to reply to the question posed in the headline: Apple has just "dealt with" the economic crisis by alienating a large number of customers who would otherwise have run out to buy the new MacBook. This can't be good.

"Though no company is recession proof, I would say that Apple is in a better position than 99% of the companies out there."

Except in recessions luxury goods makers usually end up worse off. So will Apple survive? of course. Will there be a shift in average consumer behavior from buying from higher priced notebooks to lower priced ones? Absolutely.

There is an 800 dollar macbook, its just in the refurb portion of the apple store. I know at least 3 people I have sent there who have purchased refurbished macbooks with no problems. Heck, I am on one myself right now.

"There is an 800 dollar macbook, its just in the refurb portion of the apple store. "

Some of us just don't like used computers. Someone returned it to Apple for a reason. So what if they fixed it "good as new". You never really know.

You can buy the old MacBook new on Amazon for $869.

Oct 17, 08 - 01:53 am Comment from: ken1w

Apple was in dire straits in the late 1990's. Its situation today is infinitely better. Even if Apple suddenly stopped selling products, it has enough cash to survive for the next five years (at least). That's how Apple has succeeded. Be innovative in product design. Be conservative in business strategy.

Oct 17, 08 - 03:48 am Comment from: MacSmiley

Apple will innovate through this recession the way it did in 2001... only this time, it will be all the more miraculous since this economic crisis is/will be so much worse.

Oct 17, 08 - 03:57 am Comment from: MacSmiley

Anyone have that exact quotation and a link to it, by the way?

Just another journalist of average intelligence struggling to meet another deadline for words, any words, to fill a column...

I hope it IS the worst depression since the 'Great Depression' for one sector of the community only...

Bankers. Those who through their greed, their hubris, their arrogance and their stupidity, constructed the most monstrous deceit ever pulled on humanity in the history of the world.

They have achieved the impossible. Made the lawyers look decent.

"We've had one of these before, when the dot-com bubble burst. What I told our company was that we were just going to invest our way through the downturn, that we weren't going to lay off people, that we'd taken a tremendous amount of effort to get them into Apple in the first place -- the last thing we were going to do is lay them off. And we were going to keep funding. In fact we were going to up our R&D;budget so that we would be ahead of our competitors when the downturn was over. And that's exactly what we did. And it worked. And that's exactly what we'll do this time."

Steve Jobs to Fortune's Betsy Morris in 2007

Try here http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0803/gallery.jobsqna.fortune/index.html

Apple is doomed. Nobody will buy these high priced laptops when they can get a 399 dollar machine that does the same thing. Right?

Apple is doomed only if they get suckered into ENTERING THE BOTTOM-FEEDING, MONEY-LOSING $399 MARKET.

Are BMW or Mercedes dead because they aren't competing in the entry-level auto market? Didn't think so.

Apple is right where they should be, with a nicely profitable business in the right markets. Compare to Dell and the Best Buy brands, which have trouble even during good times....

MW: sales

Bankers. Those who through their greed, their hubris, their arrogance and their stupidity, constructed the most monstrous deceit ever pulled on humanity in the history of the world.

Me: I'd like to do a mortgage pre-application, to see what I'd qualify for.

Banker: No need for that! How much do you want?

Yikes. No wonder things unraveled like they did.

Those who through their greed, their hubris, their arrogance and their stupidity, constructed the most monstrous deceit ever pulled on humanity in the history of the world.

Well that title goes to the Third Reich.

Today's bankers get honorable mention.

Oct 17, 08 - 07:07 am Comment from: chaz

The problem is as prices drop, the niche that Apple plays in "Shrinks", as the recession deepens, the niche that Apple plays in "Shrinks". As I've said before, this is a self imposed market limitation by Apple, but the impact on the stock price is unmistakable. There's a chance Apple will continue to out grow the rest of the industry, but I suspect the rate of out growth will slow markedly in the coming months.

Well, economic recession or not, i just paid £1200 for the latest MacPro, off ebay and I have $2400 waiting in the USA to get me a new MBP. I think money well spent.

Perhaps a lower cost Mac Mini refresh is in order!

I think turn around is a better perspective. What will those that have used Windows to plunge us into the worst economic crisis do?

Well switch to Macs of course.

We see the same thing happening to the other economy, the ecology system.

Governments releasing huge reserves of money to keep the economy going.

Gaia release huge reserves of fresh water (the stuff of life) to keep the ecology going.

Oct 17, 08 - 08:20 am Comment from: MacSmiley

@ Road Warrior,

Well, that explains it!! Since 90% of the world runs on Windows, it must be WINDOWS which caused the economic meltdown! Wh0'd a thunk it?

@Macaday

Thanks for the lead. Found out the quote is on the 15th out of 15 slides. Here is the direct URL:

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/fortune/0803/gallery.jobsqna.fortune/15.html

Oct 17, 08 - 08:50 am Comment from: MacSmiley

By the way, when it comes to the $399-$799 PC boot-lickers, when things get tough, instead of buying a Mac, they'll just make due with Windows 98.


With all its marketshare still going "strong", Dull could go belly up during this crisis. It has eaten up its own margins, and now has nothing to fall back on.

Oct 17, 08 - 08:50 am Comment from: KingMel

All companies will eventually feel the effects of the economic problems. But Apple is well positioned to weather the storm and come out stronger.

Most important in my book - no long term debt, extremely strong cash position (~$23B now?), and a demonstrated and reiterated commitment to maintaining R&D;spending in the down periods.

Oct 17, 08 - 08:52 am Comment from: MacSmiley

make do*

How about this rumor carefully replicated last week by MacDailyNews?
http://macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/18719/

"Piper Jaffray senior analyst Gene Munster now estimates that the new MacBook models "may dip as low as $899," Electronista reports. "This will reportedly come despite apparent moves to more upscale components, including a switch to aluminum; Munster anticipates a multi-touch trackpad similar to those given to the Air and Pro."

I know, there was nothing wrong with spreading this particular rumor. The rumor was $899 and not $800. The rumor was invented by Gene Munster from Piper Jaffray and not Duncan Riley or Therese Poletti.