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Holy Schnikey!!

Aug 13, 08 - 09:08 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Let ME say it..

Holy SHIT!

Wow!

Aug 13, 08 - 09:08 am Comment from: AlanAudio

On the 5th August,Ken Dulaney of Gartner published a report saying that the iPhone was unsuitable for all but the lightest enterprise use.

200-300,000 iPhones in the banking sector looks like a pretty major example of enterprise adoption to me.

Aug 13, 08 - 09:11 am Comment from: ron

I'm 'considering' buying a Ferrari.

iPhones?!
Why doesn't HSBC buy Samsung Instincts instead?
- They look just like iPhones!

Aug 13, 08 - 09:19 am Comment from: Cubert

"It's certainly appropriate that RIM is based in Waterloo."

HA!!! Classic.

Considering... doesn't mean adopting.

They could just be using Apple to blackmail RIM with. I have my fingers crossed though.

Is HSBC owned by the Chinese government?

My wife works for HSBC and for a year she used an iPhone for personal use.
When they provided her with a Blackberry, she opened the box, powered it on and the only way to describe the look on her face.....

Like the kid who got a ZUNE for Christmas.... priceless

Aug 13, 08 - 09:38 am Comment from: MobileAdmin

Considering the lack security on the iphone I know who's iphone I'd want to steal now. Whomever makes this decision better have their resume updated because once a few gets stolen and what .. of the data isn't encrytped discussion comes around .. they will be looking for a new job.

I work for a company with well over 20,000 employees .. total number of employees able to have a mobile device (yes including the executives who wanted an iphone) 3,500.

What Ken wrote is 110% accurate - while nice the iphone is no where near enterprise able as BES / Blackberry - period.

I wonder what the discount will be.

Aug 13, 08 - 09:46 am Comment from: jonahan

WTF HSBC doesn't even have a damn app for the iPhone..

Sir, would you like a few Macs with that order? Maybe a few servers too?

Don't forget the halo when you see numbers like this.

Be sure to scrub under the RIM.

Frank has a good point. HSBC and others certainly have a big stick in the iPhone to leverage better deals from RIM. Let's not count our chickens here; it's not a done deal, merely a "consideration". That's a long way from a sale.

Aug 13, 08 - 10:00 am Comment from: Predrag

Even with that Waterloo being in Ontario, Canada, the symbolism of it is incredibly prophetic...

Aug 13, 08 - 10:01 am Comment from: NCMacMan

Not only will RIM loose out on hardware sales, but they also sell and license Blackberry servers to corporations to handle the email. The servers are licensed with a certain number of users, so Blackberry actually will loose out on TWO sources of revenue -- the phone hardware and the client licensing!

Aug 13, 08 - 10:09 am Comment from: Predrag

Reciting the laundry list of missing features as an argument doesn't convince too many.

What is the typical scenario where a mobile device is lost/stolen? In vast majority of cases, it is just lost - fell out of a purse, left behind on a buss/train/plane, etc. The finder (or thief) of this device usually has no forensic skills in order to recover data from the device, even if he had any interest in doing so. Vast majority of corporate users exchange only moderately confidential information via their e-mail (= mobile device). Should paranoid security be an issue for anyone, you can always give a few blackberries to the CxO officers.

I sincerely doubt anyone would lose their job because of iPhone deployment.

Aug 13, 08 - 10:12 am Comment from: MCCFR

Is HSBC owned by the Chinese government?

Not really, it's headquartered in the UK and moved from Hong Kong when we handed HK back to the PRC.

There's probably a significant number of Hong Kong-Chinese who hold shares privately, but these guys started preparing to get away from China long before the end of British rule.

You're probably thinking of the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, which is genuinely Chinese financial institution.

Aug 13, 08 - 10:17 am Comment from: MobileAdmin

I don't think our complaince / legal departments would love the notion that "Relax the common thief has no foresic skills" .. Iphone needs device encryption period it's not a feature it's something every single enterprise mobile device has available. Any financial company would be idiotic to send any data to a device without encryption and there is NPI data often in emails. Considering the ease the iphone has already been hacked I think Mr. Hush will have a hard time getting security / legal and complaince clearence.

Might I add that certain types of data is required to be reported and possible fines are involved if lost / stolen.

Not sure there really is a cost savings as you still need exchange CAL and if you want extended security via System Center (which currently doesn't support iphone) that is yet another CAL so it basically a wash.

Not without a physical keyboard they won't.

Apple really would be better off putting a slide out keyboard under there, as part of an expanded iPhone lineup, if they really want the enterprise and heavy texter market. Maybe get the body's slimness down to that 9mm iPod touch range so the addition of the keyboard will make it only about as thick as the current iPhone 3G.

Or at the very least give us a universal landscape keyboard already.

Aug 13, 08 - 10:52 am Comment from: Tommy Boy

@ MobileAdmin: Are you the new Zune Tang? What part of Remote Wipe in the iPhone 2.0 admin tools is insecure to you?

HSBC's Australian presence is small compared to major Australian banks, but its global operations have a US$6 billion annual technology budget and a technology team of 30,000 supporting 300,000 employees.

Wow, I am amazed at this. The ratio of IT support and users is 1:10. How do they keep busy supporting only 10 people per technician? Are they sure they use proper technologies considering the level of support required?

Aug 13, 08 - 11:10 am Comment from: MobileAdmin

@TommyBoy: I am merely stating the facts and Remote Wipe is nothing new, it's been part of ActiveSync for 2 years. Remote Wipe and DEVICE encryption are totally different things.

Remote wipe is only as good as the reporting of the device being lost / stolen. So considering the minimal security Iphone presently has it has a ways to go to be at the level of BES / Blackberry and any company considering a migration needs to be aware of these shortcomings.

Sorry if the truth bursts the koolaid fest but understand things from an enterprise stance before getting all excited.

Aug 13, 08 - 11:42 am Comment from: Jubei

DO IT!!!!!!

Aug 13, 08 - 12:10 pm Comment from: Tommy Boy

@ MobileAdmin: Thanks for letting us know that one of the undocumented features of the Blackberry is telepathic remote wipe that will clear off the device the moment someone suspects that their mobile has been lost/stolen/compromised.

Seriously, a Blackberry does not have encrypted memory, it can only encrypt the data on a removable storage card and the data that is transmitted. iPhones don't have removable storage cards, they come with sufficient memory built-in and the device can be password protected. Data that is transmitted digitally transmitted over a cell phone network is encrypted and the iPhone supports encrypted VPN connections for data transmission over WiFi networks.

How much does RIM pay you to troll this forum?

I'm pretty sure for a 200K unit order Apple would break out industrial strength encryption on the iPhone.

Aug 13, 08 - 12:26 pm Comment from: MobileAdmin

@TommyBoy: The BES does in fact offer device encryption so it's not some undocumented feature. I am merely pointing out a major shortcoming to the iphone. Can you grasp that for SOME companies remote wipe and password policy (while great) are not ENOUGH!?

The fanboyism here is pretty funny. While I do govern a large mobile deployment of Blackberry, I also support 1000 Windows Mobile devices as well a growing # of iphones so I'm pretty open to mobile devices.

It's ok to open the door and see what is outside .. really

Sounds cool, especially if it had its own customized push software.

Hmmm...

Someone should tell them about all the speed problems iPhones are having.

hey tommy boy, you're way out of your league here. mobileadmin has a very good understanding of the issues here. the fact is the iPhone just does not cut it in security minded enterprises.

remote wipe on the iphone is a joke - why? because the command is attached to the sim card and the network presence. i.e. if someone stole your device and took out the sim before wipe was initiated, the data is open for stealing as the actual devuce itself is NOT encrypted.

on the blackberry, it is connected to the device's pin, so even if someone pulled out the sim card and tried to put their own one back in, the second that device's pin showed up on any bb enabled network worldwide, the device would immediately wipe. in the meantime, the data is encrypted. so, bottomline, no matter how fantastic the iphone is (and it is an awesome device) it just doesn't cut it for an entity like a bank.

this smells like hsbc trying to put levergae on RIM to reduce CALs and BES costs. it would be nightmare for them to try to distribute 2-300,000 iphones across their platform. what a joke of an artcile this is!

@MobileAdmin. I presume you have read about the kill switch by now? Does RIM have a similar function in case dodgy software finds its way into your Slackberry?

I sympathise over the fact that your livelyhood is dependent on RIM & Winsoft but that is no reason to flame any percieved threat to it. Embrace change & you will be rewarded with a better & satisfying lifestyle.

As for Applelytes opening doors to see what is outside....the majority of them were MSDOS, WINDOWS, NT addicts who eventually opened the door. What they saw & experienced has led to many of them pretty cross at the years of wasted hours, frustration & expense they have swallowed from Redmond.

Dare you open that door you speak off?

@crazylegs. How about getting a grip on your own legs before you try to teach others how to walk?

The humble ipod can be traced & locked by Apple inc if you report yours stolen.

The iphone is account activated via itunes and does not feature a removable storage device such as a sim card unless you buy yours unlocked, in which case you cannot receive automatic updates until you register it on itunes.

Once registered, your account can be closed & therefor deactivate your iphone should it be stolen.

I guess you think that HSBC is run by muppets who do not conduct any form of research before trying to hold their current suppliers at ransom!

Just SHUT IT!!!

@crazylegs
Let's not forget the iPhone SDK to write your own security/encryption software for your companies perticular needs. Costs $99 for the average Joe to get started...maybe a few dollars more for a business.
300,000 iPhones is a way easier and cheaper transition than getting all their Windows machines running with Vista and even possibly an XP service pack xxx....
Sure, there are some issues that need work still, but the iPhone doesn't require a geekazoid to figure it out and THAT saves a company tons of money.
This article is not ridiculous, and if it were to actually happen, dozens of other large companies would also consider switching to the next generation mobile device.
The Blackberry needs 3G, more capacity, an easy app store, a music store, Wifi, and most of all, a true multitouch large screen and buttons that are there only if you need them.
RIMM is behind...they know it, and soon the public will realize it.

if true, WOW

Aug 13, 08 - 01:19 pm Comment from: MobileAdmin

Why does it feel one could give all the evidence and talk to their blue in the face and the majority here will just have that blank look and then say, "But it's not cool".

@Crabapple: Actually one of BES policies is to DISABLE the loading of 3rd party applications all together as well if desired you and white list / black list applications as needed. That is the point - apple doesn't offer this to the enterprise and wants to control it.

My livelihood is supporting MOBILITY so be it Blackberry, Iphone, Windows Mobile, Palm etc .. I can do it and have done it for almost 10 years. The door is about mobility as a platform and all the cross baggage of Mac/Windows/whatever doesn't matter to me. Blackberry is the standard for enterprise security and at the moment Apple is lacking in providing robust methods to enforce and manage iphones. In case you missed it - we already have 50 in the building and are growing.

@Orange Juice: Hmmm you mean the SDK I've had since last year? Funny all the API's to say make an encryption applet are LOCKED DOWN by Apple. Seems they will decide if and when encryption (and other security) is offered.

With any large number of mobile devices at play you are talking about contracts and early termination fees, setup and support of the new devices etc. It's not cheap by any means and my point is at the end you wind up with less (none) of the security, management and reporting you started with so hows does that save money when you need to bring in a 3rd party solution (that at the moment doesn't exsist) to feel that need.

Hmmm let's examine:

3G - coming with Bold and new devices across multiple carriers
Capacity - all new devices have MicroSD so limit is by card
AppStore - consumer based - no role in enterprise
Music Store - ditto (HR nightmare)
Wifi - all XX20 series devices have wifi
MUI - up in the air if it has true BUSINESS functionality benefits, no doubt it's fantastic for album cover flipping and web browsing but kinda clunky when you get down to working.

It's really strange watching fanbois p1$$ kool aid into each other's mouths.

Aug 13, 08 - 04:58 pm Comment from: Tommy Boy

@ FreddyThePig: Obviously the company that MobileAdmin works for is RIM and he has to support those iPhones because researchers in his company are busy with their photocopiers.

Aug 13, 08 - 05:37 pm Comment from: MobileAdmin

@Fanboys

I get it - I'm on a Mac site (which I find useful to get condensed apple related news) perhaps I have an interest in Apple products and the thought was I was going to offer constructive input in these discussion but I guess it's not wanted and it's close minded - iphone rules all mindset so why bother.

I don't work for RIM, Microsoft or whatever other companies are on the apple fanboy "evil" list. I work for a fortune 100 company in the financial vertical (yes in IT and not the mailroom) I don't believe I ever came off as "someone important" - just directly involved with the management and support of mobile devices.

So pardon my intrusion on the love fest during my lunch break to catch up on some news and add my thoughts.

@MobileAdmin,

Thanks for your well written and thought out comments today. I've owned, used, and enjoyed Apple products for 20 years and I also use XP. I use whatever products work the best and save me time.

It's great to have access to balanced info.; Apple does many things well and other decisions and designs can be frustrating.

It's unfortunate that a few folks in this forum seem to resort to blind love and name calling.

Hopefully, Apple will continually evaluate RIM's product strengths and include those strengths and even better features in the iPhone. : )

This is a crock.

A bank with 300k people does NOT buy a phone for everyone. Like the Blackberry, only select management and those staff who need one will be able to get one. Joe Blow in operations or Ms. Jane the teller will not be getting one for sure.

"Joe Blow in operations or Ms. Jane the teller will not be getting one for sure."

And even if it becomes the "New Standard" unless there's some specific application HSBC have for it, it'll be the standard for new hires, and only then when there's no Blackberrys around to be redeployed.

And forget up front cost, when it comes to global users, Windows Mobile and iPhone become very expensive compared to Blackberry which, at least from US carriers, offers inexpensive unlimited international data roaming plans.

iPhones/Win Mobile by contrast can run up hundreds even thousands of dollars of data charges on a single trip.

@MobileAdmin.
You obviously know your business better than any of us do, or should I say better than I ever could and are doing a great job for a lot of people who are your clients.

But beware of falling into the same hole that Mr. Ball Silly did when he was first interviewed regarding his opinion over the 2g iphone. "Never heard of it, never seen it, don't know what it is therefor won't even give it the time of day" Not exactly those words but words to that effect. Now months later, he is eating crow quietly because we can see were his business is now focussing its energies on.

The few items that you have outlined as coming are exactly that, coming, iphone already has them & is mopping up the stew.

App store, is more enterprise than corporate because hundreds if not thousands of developers are now making money of it or are in the process of producing products to do so.

As for the rest, they can be adopted for various needs as Universities across America have, lectures on the go. Sales men now have access to their companies database via bento or bespoke software so that they can advise their customers of stock availability in real time, by the time they knock off work, they don't even need to sit in front of a computer to upload their daily sales or tagets because they have done it in real time.

There are of course plenty of other uses that will eventually emerge as more & more people realise what they can do on that platform. So really the real question is, How far & willing are we as individuals prepared to change the way we do things? Answer that question and you will realise the next step your business needs to take. Regardless of platform.

crabapple - you are actually wrong. i can switch between my iphone and blackberry by swapping the sim card. don't even need to change the plan. i have an att bb plan and the iphone works perfectly when i switch it to the bb. so, you CAN actually just take the sim card out of another device and put it in an iphone as long as that iphone has been activated previously. the only thing you miss not being on an "iPhone" plan is visual voicemail. this doesn't matter to me because i use a pretty cool free voicemail service called youmail, that sends me an email of the transcribed voicemal with the audio file attached. please do some homework before insulting someone else. my legs are running like crazy...

HSBC is now the 3rd largest bank in the world (the 1st two are owned by the Chinese government) and the largest financial HSBC is one of the largest and profitable financial companies in the world. They are also an IBM Notes/domino shop and therefore thankfully not dependent on MSExchange. As a global company they have tremendous amounts of business in countries that do not appreciate RIM's server locationss/policies/availability - India comes to mind. Given that HSBC has been around for the last 140 years one would expect them to be considering the adoption of the iPhone, leveraging their current infrastructure with a global device that is politically agnostic, unlike BB.

ummm, anyone care to respond to recent revelations that this article is simply untrue? Amazing how bs fodder gets picked up on the Internet and posted on biased sites like this that never check facts to see if there is any validity. This story didn't make sense from the beginning but the fanboys will use anything they can. Did anyone check to see what email platform hsbc uses? Does iPhone support that platform? Did anyone bother to call hsbc? Answer those questions and you'll have your answer.

There are certainly a lot of details like that to take into consideration. That’s a great point to bring up. I offer the thoughts above as general inspiration but clearly there are questions like the one you bring up where the most important thing will be working in honest good faith. I don’t know if best practices have emerged around things like that, but I am sure that your job is clearly identified as a fair game.
Thanks,
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