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And the moment they don't appear the stock price will drop and all the fanboys will whine in unison.

We may see preliminary, or pre-production Macs with Intel processors but they will not be available to buy anytime soon. Why? simple the current state of Intel processors will not yield adaquate Rosetta performance and not enough developers will have completed their universal binaries. More important than wowing people with an Intel based Mac is Apple's need to adhere to their own timeline.

That would be nice.

^ Absolutely. This could get out of hand very quickly. Less than two months to MacWorld and the supposed "smartest move" by Apple -- the Intel based Mac -- is already going to be released?????

What the hell? How much software'll be ready by then? Anything? Just the iLife suite? What about the problems of early-adopters? I'd be really concerned that the first people to be exposed to Intel Macs are the general population and average computer buyer -- if they have a bad experience becasue there are a lot of glitches to be worked out, that won't be good for Apple . . . or my stock!

Ain't dad du truff hammer.

are there enough apps with universal binaries to support his already? sure I'd like them out sooner than later as well, but without the apps to run on it......

My spider sense is tingling

The "analyst" seems to be assuming that there will be no built-in prohibition against OS X use on x86 computers. That's a very big assumption at this point.

I guess I need to change "x86" to "non-Apple"

I won't go so far as to say that it won't happen, but I still don't buy it. The only one I could see is the Mac mini.

First, Apple is waiting on Yonah for the PowerBooks. Yonah will not be available until 2Q 2006. Intel has already stated that Apple will not receive any preferential treatment. Thus, PowerBooks won't happen until 2Q 2006. Period.

Second, we just got a PowerBook update. I don't expect to see another one in two months.

iBooks and Mac minis, maybe. Apple would need to go with the Pentium M for these. I think the Mac mini clone from AOpen uses a Pentium M. But we also now run into the question of software. While Apple's software may be available, most third-party software will not. If Apple says "June" and ships in May, that's one thing. If Apple says "June" and ships in January--six months before they said they would--that's something completely different and you'd see some torqued-off third-party developers.

Here's a prediction. It will be a Phillnote not a Stevenote with just progress reports on the Intelization of OS X and a few demos of ported apps on developer units.

If we are really good the next month and a half they may even release iLife 06.

What about the mac mini?

There is an Intel version floating around somewhere. The pics were ciculated even before the announcement and people thought it was a knock off. It was reported that Intel commissioned it.

I just hope they upgrade iPhoto and make it more stable. With 500 5MP images, it occasionally hangs.

ummmmm... Yonah is also due for January. Can't remember if this was the chip that was bumped up or if it's always been this way, but Yonah is coming in January.

Coincidence? I think not.

Personally, I'm going to see if my 500Mhz can last me until 3Q for Merom! Whole new architecture!!! woot!

Actually, the dual-core PentiumM CPUs will run Rosetta very well, and they are coming out in January...

Why wait 'til January? They'll be here for XMAS !!!!!!!

MDNW 'say' So say I

(wishful thinking?)

Nothing Apple does would surprise me anymore, but I agree that this is probably not going to be the case, unless the software migration to UB is well ahead of schedule and Apple is asking developers to keep quiet about it, but that's unlikely. Frankly, if the software isn't ready yet I don't want the Intels to come out. Rosetta is nice and all but I don't want the majority of people's software to have to use it, even for a little while.

I also have my doubts about whether PowerBooks will be among the first to be released, but then again, they desperately need it.

Yes, Yonah - the dual-core version just perfect for Powerbooks - is out in January. The single-core version, just perfect for the mac mini and ibooks, is out in June.
No intel mac mini for January. *If* there's going to be a MacIntel launched at the Expo, its going to be a Powerbook. Lovely, fast, dual-core Powerbooks :D
(to people who think its going to be a Mac Mini - do you really think Apple would release a mini that is more powerful than a Powerbook?)

Who cares? My G5 is now two weeks old and ain't gonna be replaced in January.

It is "possible" that Apple quietly made a deal with Intel to use USB 2 exclusively on all of their iPods and, in turn, Apple wouldn't be required to put those wonky "Intel Inside" advert stickers on their cases.

MDNMW = "possible"

If it does happen it will be the worst move Apple has ever made, and may be the last move foe Apple hardware. My hope is that Apple at most introduces an Intel based system in addition to the vastly superior IBM chips already in use. A MOOve to Wintel for Apple is really setting Apple as a hardware maker out to pasture. ( Get the allusion to Gateway?) Why do I make reference to Gateway? Because who needs another company using Intel chips to compete with all the other Intel based winners and losers? But yes--If Steve came out with a Intel Mini--with a mini up to speed--equiped with new remote software that is on the Imac--Id love to buy on in addition to the IBM processor Mac I already own. That is a switch--to get people who already own Macs to switch to and Intel based machine in addition to the true Mac that he or she already owns.

LISA! Get in here!! Stop playin' with the goats!

Take care of yer screamin' brats, and mama wants you ta scrub her feet.

'N wake up yer boyfriend -- get his lardass up and tell 'im to get down to the welfare office, ferchrissakes!

Yes, lisa, we know. Intel bad, Apple doomed, Mac dead.

Out of curiosity, how long does Apple have to survive, post-Intel before you shut the hell up? 'Cuz I'm really looking forward to it.

I think some guy back around 1983 was telling Apple employees "Real Artists Ship!"
Intel based Macs will at least be announced Jan MacWorld, and will ship no later than Mar. With new modles announced and shipping throughout all of 06. I just hope (for personal reasons) the iBook si in the earlier part of this.
I'm conviced they'll have iLife 06 shipping with the new models from day one. Developers will have incentive to get coding 'with serious intent once thse units start smashing marketshare for Apple. Pbobablly have their own conversions ready earlier thant expected. (Even though MS Office is supposed to be onboard, I'd just as soon they lag, like forever. As Apple provides it's own suite. Maybe Adobe can get off their butts if they want to sell SW for this hot selling platform.

Ummm Mac mini with Intel and...

iLife 06? iWork 06?

phew.. busy day

Regarding Rosetta:

Consider Rosetta runs your apps at 60% of potential speed. The new Powerbooks will presumably have DUAL core Yonah processor - that's 2x2 gigs mate!

Consider the new powerbooks could run any old apps at least as fast as the current ones under emulation - pretty good deal!

And when the UB third party apps appear it will completely smoke the current gen.

So I can't wait for all of the "lisa" people to freak out when Intel-based PowerBooks appear - triple the performance, less weight, same price, able to run Mac OS X and Windows natively. What will they have to whine about?

First: Do I believe an Intel based Mac will be announced as imminently shipping (shipping in quantity before the end of January '06) at MWSF? No. I'd love to be wrong and have a Mac mini shipping in January '06, but I'd be surprised if it happens.

Second: Seems as though most of the posters here have forgotten what happended during the 680x0 -> PowerPC transition. So little software was available when the first PowerMac shipped that many people were predicting the 680x0 -> PowerPC transition would be Apple's death. Additionally, MrC and MrC++ were not quite up to speed with PowerPC code. Many, many developers switched to CodeWarrior to write software for the PowerMac as it was, in many people's opinion, the only development environment that was complete with regard to developing for the PowerPC based Mac. In fact many people believed at the time that CodeWarrior saved Apple.

Thus I won't be too worried if Apple ships an Intel based machine before there are thousands of applications native on the Intel based Mac platform. I will be worried if it's much later than June '07 before we see the big name applications native on the Intel based Macs. Adobe has already publicly stated that their big apps won't show up natively when the first Intel Macs ship. Microsoft has committed to the transition, but won't give any hint as to when it will ship.

Also, Lisa, I don't see this transition to Intel as the suicide leap as you seem to be portraying it. Apple has very specifically stated it will make Mac OS X so that it ONLY runs on Apple created hardware. Thus Apple is virtualy guaranteeing that Apple built hardware will continue for the foreseeable future.

Will there be hacks out there which will run on non Apple hardware? Most certainly. However, Apple won't support them. If a user of a hacked system calls Apple for support s/he will be on his/her own. If anyone wants Apple support for their Mac OS X installation they need to buy Apple hardware.

Apple has also clearly stated they will do absolutely nothing to keep people from running Windows on an Apple created machine. Personally, I like this option. Ever try to run a computationally intensive piece of software under Virtual PC such as Analytical Graphics' Satellite Tool Kit (and not just the free modules either)? It is virtually impossible (pun intended). I have every hope that I can buy an Intel based Mac and do 95% of my work on the Mac side. Then when I have to use a Windows only piece of software at worst I will have to reboot into Windows (or hopefully just context switch over to Windows and still have the Mac side running) to run the Windows only app. Finally moving back to Mac OS X (or whatever it will be then) to finish my work. No more dual machines crowding my physical desktop!

Do I think the PowerPC is a more elegant design than the Intel/AMD chips? Yes.

For what I do, the PowerPC with its POWER heritage and great floating point capabilities is much better than the Intel/AMD chips. However, this is not true for 99% of the world. Apple will be able to address the needs of a much larger base than it can now with a switch to Intel based systems. 99% of the world is more interested in integer performance than floating point performance (whether they know it or not).

So while the switch to Intel will not be a great thing for me, with regard to performance, it will be a good thing for most users. But I still hope to get that Intel/Window machine off my desk.

MDN Magic Word: view
as in... Just my view from the shadows.

I keep hearing all this talk about loading Window on the Intel based Mac and all I can think of is why would I want to compromise the integrity and security of my system. I have believed since the day Apple announced Intel based Macs that Apple would have to provide either a Virtual Enviroment to run Windows in safety or something like Wine, that would provide Win APIs. Otherwise Apple throws the innate security benefits of OS X right out the window.

I'm holding out to get Leopard for when I start university. By then hopefully the switch will be well under way with plenty of software... With such a looong wait, suffering Microshaft for an extra year, I'm beginning to dabble with Linux

MW = week, as in I wish I could have one this week

I remember when Apple switched from the Motorola chips to the IBM chips--in the same instant the drones and bots started posting about how terrible Motorola was. The exam same drones and bots who only seconds before the announcement were assuring the world that Apple's Motorola chips were the best in the world were touting the IBM chips after the announcement. Now these same people are droning on about--get this--the advent of Intel inside. Im sorry I just think different. Or maybe its just that I am still believing Apple's recent history of bullishness on the powerpc chips INCLUDING the release of the new QUAD--with two 64 bit dual core powepc chips--chips that are better than anything on the Intel roadmap. The same Intel roadmap that by the way has recently come to look more like a speed bump than a road map. The MINI is the perfect machine to induce people to switch--But not from Wintel to Mac--and not a real SWITCH--but its the perfect machine for Mac owners to buy who may need an Intel chip inside for whatever reason. But the Powerbooks should always remain a true Mac origination with powerpc chips. Put dual chips in there or use a CELL. Keep the powerpc chips in the powermacs. Crack the 3 gig barrier next year. But foe heavens sake abandon this intel inside idea for the pro macs. And will you please buy Apple Records and Michael Jackson's Beatles portfolio? The IPOD will soon supplant the pony as this world's all time greatest gift. Once the new Apple wireless universe expands, Apple will be huge. So save the hardware and keep intel OUTSIDE the pro machines.

"Why wait 'til January? They'll be here for XMAS !!!!!!!"

Santa, shut up.

"Here for Christmas" means on store shelves by November 19th. It would take a Christmas miracle.

Apple really needs to start an anti-rumor campaign. Rumors that get established as "fact" are just as damaging as leaks.

Wow, these posts are dug all over the yard, not following a straight line, and poor ol' Lisa (whoever she is) had more than a few land on her head... Girl, take 2 aspirin and call in the AM.

Yes, I think the PowerBook will be first in line (stick a Celeron M with Intel-graphics in the iBook if you just have to have one now - I think it may see a "quiet" speedboost instead, taking the G4 that is currently holding back the PowerBook). Then, when the single-core Yonah is released in May/June timeframe, have the iBook make the big jump (just in time for back-to-school).

But back to the PowerBook: Yonah will be making it's debut come January, but there won't be sufficient quantities for the new PowerBook to ship until 1st-3rd week of Feb (remember people, Apple is in the big kids' pool now, and has to share its CPUs with the Dells of the world). They'll announce it at MWSF, but - as in the past - we'll have to wait a few weeks to get our mits on 'em. The PowerBook will see another big boost when Merom, the dual-core, 64bit successor to Yonah, ships next Sept/Oct.

In fact, I see no reason why Apple can't begin to "broaden" their laptop range, just like Sony, Toshiba, etc. The 12" can go widescreen, but keep it small, or shrink it further, and give us a subnote to carry in our hands. And have a Celeron M in an iBook "Jr." (if you will), for people who don't need the bells & whistles that even a regular iBook now has. And when Merom ships, they could maintain a line of "regular" PowerBooks at 12" (or 13" WUXGA) and 15" that use the 32bit Yonah, and a PowerBook Pro 15" & 17", that are dual-core and 64bit.

Notice I haven't mentioned the mini? That's because I don't see it making the switch immediately - what's the point?. At least not until next Summer, and definitely not before the iMac... Now, the iMac could be announced at MWSF, but I don't see it with anything other than Yonah. And the main reason would be if Apple had made a major leap in Front Row's features, adding TV & DVR functions (ala ATI's All In Wonder and/or Elgato's EyeTV)... And the main push behind it would be to "kick more sand" in Microsoft's face over their pathetic Media Centre PC... However, I doubt it will come that soon - even if more networks and/or studios announce content deals via iTMS.

Yonah may be dual-core, but it's still 32bit, which would be like Apple taking 2 steps back from the G5. So I think the iMac may wait until Merom - can't be sure, but I believe that Intel's current 64bit CPUs, like the Pentium D, would run just way too hot for the iMac's now-thinner case; not to metion it would make the PowerMac G5 begin to look anemic.

Seriously, Lisa-- I have NEVER known anyone who nurses such negativity for such a long time. Goodness sakes, girl-- get a massage or something.

This is funny. This happens every time. If the rumors turn out to be true, everyone will be praising Apple. If the rumors are not true, it will be doom and gloom predicted for Apple's future.

Either way, the stock will take a dump, and then spike one week later. lol

And Lisa, I, for one, would love to have "Intel Inside" my Powerbook. I have certain PC only apps that I have to use for work, and VPC is a dog.

MW: Hear--Do you hear what I hear? It's the whining and bitching of those who are afraid of change...

The point is, it's happening. Bitching and crying changes nothing. Jobs and company have to know SOMETHING wioth regard to the direction they want to go.

I look big picture-- when the first switch happened, computer users were a rarified group. People didn't know what they wanted and generally most people didn't care. Consumers today respond to tech on a different level. It6's not scary anymore, and comparatively Apple both exceeds expectation and sucks on certain performance scales. level the performance scale and suddenly, it's about usability. (heavenly chorus in background as cluds part and sun shines down) On a level playing field, there's a real chance to win. No more BS about this chip is crap or that doohickey is... whatever. Same chips, same basic computer parts, DIFFERENT OS and DIFFERENT user experience.

For goodness sake, embrace the change or sound bitter and negativbe forever, even though is accomplishes nothing.

This time, the war will be even more interesting than the first time. Enjoy the ride.

10.4.3 x86 OS X is running ALOT faster than 10.42 on my boring developer intel machines. There has been a massive speed leap so they are gonna be FAST>>>>> but check this article out about a new intel chip which allows you to run multiple OS's natively IN HARDWARE is this another reason Apple has gone to Intel ?

Intel brings virtualization to desktop chips
By Tom Krazit, IDG News Service

Intel Corp. is expected to unveil two new desktop processors on Monday that come with hardware support for virtualization technologies, but users won’t be able to take advantage of that technology for some time.

The new single-core Intel Pentium 4 672 and 662 processors are almost identical to the 670 and 660 Pentium 4 processors in Intel’s product lineup, except the new chips have transistors dedicated to improving the performance of virtualization software, said Chad Taggard, director of advanced technologies marketing with Intel.

Virtualization technology allows PC and server users to run multiple operating environments on a single processor, allowing one machine to be carved into several “virtual” computers.

For example, users could access corporate applications in one operating environment, while using a different environment for personal applications. IT managers could exercise tight control over the corporate application environment and prevent viruses or malware from moving from the personal environment to the rest of the company’s network.

This has been possible for a while with software from companies like VMware Inc., XenSource Inc., but hardware virtualization allows that software to run more efficiently. However, in order to take advantage of the extra performance boost from Intel’s virtualization technology, the software companies have to build support for that capability into their products, Taggard said. That process is underway, but the updated software products aren’t expected to become available until around the beginning of next year, he said.

Early next year, Intel will bring the hardware virtualization technology into its dual-core Pentium D processors, Taggard said. Around the same time Intel will also introduce virtualization into its Xeon server processors. Advanced Micro Devices Inc. is also planning to introduce virtualization technology for server and desktop processors next year.

I need a mini not as a slimmed down switchin' machine but a beefed up media server and gamer with at least 400 gigs of storage and a 2 giga-plus chip. It ain't the same market.

It would be possible for Apple to announce an Intel computer in January only if they KNOW that 90% of 3rd party software will be ready by the shipping date (which could be a few weeks later). Given Adobe's position on this, I would think that many other 3rd party SW makers could also find June 06 difficult, let alone January or February. But Apple keeps tabs on these things, and they may believe differently.

I actually believe that January is going to bring something totally new... Like out of the blue "new". In fact, if the switch to intel chips is ahead of schedule, 2006 will likely see new computers by Apple. It always seemed to me that the main reason for the switch was reliability of Intel in producing massive quantities of chips. Expect a wider range of choices. Perhaps a new line of desktops and a new line of notebooks. Why not a handheld with a 500-700MHz intel chip? Or an iPod with a chip?

Lastly, we are forgetting about other products that need updating, such as the iPod shuffle, Xserve, Xserve RAID and Apple displays on the hardware side, and AppleWorks, DVD Studio, Logic Express/Pro, SoundTrack Pro... etc.

I suppose that an Mac Mini re-designed as a Front Row box for your HD display would be one way of introducing x86 Macs. The lack of third party software would not matter if the computer is used for music and movies.

An Intel Powerbook is what I am waiting for. I got my 667 Tibook limping along but it really needs replaced.

Any VPU heavy apps that run on Rosetta are going to take a huge hit until the Intel Tools are out. Follow the links and you will see that the x86 optimization tools are not there yet.

http://www.devx.com/Intel/Article/29557

http://www.intel.com/cd/software/products/asmo-na/eng/perflib/ipp/index.htm

http://www.intel.com/cd/software/products/asmo-na/eng/perflib/219769.htm

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Performance/Conceptual/Accelerate_sse_migration/index.html

Without SSE optimization tools, AltiVec heavy apps will be DOG SLOW on good hardware.

Lisa--- Michael Jackson owns rights to Beatles published music, not their recordings. I believe Apple Corps still controls the recordings.

I think there is some merit to AppleInsider's claim to the iMac and PowerBook being the first target systems going Intel.

The key to this is in Apple's 64-bit Intel roadmap, and how to get there:
http://www.andwest.com/blojsom/blog/tatle/comments/2005/11/13/Apples-64-bit-Intel-Roadmap-Getting-There.html

'LISA VERSUS STEVE'. Joke! End of discussion.

Bring on Intel Yonah chipped Powerbooks - I'll mortgage everything for one certainly.

Salivating already!

Now I agree, Lisa needs to get a massage (or, Mr. Jobs might say, drop some acid), but I do think she's got one point somewhere in there...

Before I "switched," I remember all the Intel bashing from the Mac camp. But now everything is, "Oh, it's the OS, it's the OS." I'm starting to agree, that, for portables, the Power PC is a dead end, but I wish everybody would at least learn a lesson from this.

I still want a pony....(sigh)

Bloody hell, take a couple of mogies and slow down. Intel macs are on the way. It's a much better idea to have the right software in the machines rather than have everything running through Rosetta at a slightly slower speed.

Eventually I'll make the transition just like a lot of other Mac users. But guys we're welded onto the mac system. The real game are those poor windows users. Apple has to get it right or Microsoft's minions will be baying for blood. In a word patience.

One last point, nowadays (most of the time) Apple just gets it right. Likewise Microsoft nowadays mostly gets it wrong. Do I think Apple will screw-up the transition…absolutely not. There's been a lot of planning for this move and Jobs and co. know that it has to be done just right…and it will be!

Do you know nothing? Apple has never released a product for the holiday season, the product releases are always in January, At MWSF, Does anyone know why? Apple uses the holiday shopping season to clear out old inventory. The one exception to this rule may be the original iPod, but that is a new product so there for no old inventory could be cleared.

If we are going to see intel processors it will be after christmas, after the existing inventory of powerbooks is lowered.