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Apple is Big Brother

Apple is annoying...

I'd like to hear comments here from developers or anyone else familiar with this first hand. How true is this? I haven't installed the devkit yet, or had time to look into it much myself.

Anyone ever heard of Youtube??

well you can always program for windows mobile. thanks now move on.

There are several iPhone SDK books listed on Amazon.com that are set to ship in the next few months...

If this is true, it's a bit disturbing. Apple can learn a great deal from developers sharing information between each other and with Apple, and this would only lead to improved, more stable apps.

Perhaps it's an oversight which has not yet been corrected, but I doubt it.

What is Apple afraid of? Hackers getting into the mix?

The SDK is still *very* new, it's a baby. I can understand why Apple is proceeding cautiously. They can barely handle the road at the speed they're traveling at now, just imagine how fast things will move once developers have full freedom.

MW - "child" - weird!

Aug 27, 08 - 01:58 pm Comment from: dd

What IS Apple's problem, anyway? I can't wait to buy a book that will walk me through the process. Just because I'm a newb does not mean my programs will be horrible or malicious. Ok, they'll probably be horrible at first.

Aug 27, 08 - 01:59 pm Comment from: Spudly

If every time you did something someone copied it and sold it for less than you..wouldn't you grow wary? I'm sure Apple has a good reason for this...and my guess is that it revolves around the patents that are still pending on/within the iPhone... Once patents are awarded then the NDA will lift and all you folks bitching and whining will move on to the next item on your bitch and whine list...

From my understanding, the nda rests on a number of patents being approved.

Apple only wants registered developers to develop software for the iPhone / iPod touch. They want 30% of the revenue from your applications. If you build an app on your own and sell it to others using Cydia or Installer.app then Apple won't get that revenue. Therefore they don't want any books published, or any information shared.

It is completely true. I recently posted a code snippet I was having problems with in the forums (which are basically useless) and got some answers. In fact I got answers from a guy who'd had a similar problem and developed a workaround he was willing to share, but the thread was shutdown, and then mysteriously removed.

It's part of Terms of Agreement if you read them. We can't talk to each other about what we're developing or discuss any technical aspects.

Oh, I see. The multi-touch patents.

Well the US Patent and Trademark Office needs to get on their grizzy.

This stance from Apple does seem curious.

I mean, the SDK is out there and the App store is up and running with very, very few glitches. (Unlike MobileMe!)

It would seem like a vibrant developer community discussion could only help Apple improve the SDK, find bugs sooner, get feedback quicker, make Apple more money, get mo' better apps on the app store and generally make the iPhone even more irresistible.

What am I missing?

no need for me to repeat -
listen closely to spudly:
"If every time you did something someone copied it and sold it for less than you..wouldn't you grow wary? I'm sure Apple has a good reason for this...and my guess is that it revolves around the patents that are still pending on/within the iPhone... Once patents are awarded then the NDA will lift and all you folks bitching and whining will move on to the next item on your bitch and whine list..."

thanks spudly - it's amazing how many ppl on this forum cant figure out the basics

Steve Jobs is the Uncle Joe Stalin of Cupertino.

Aug 27, 08 - 02:23 pm Comment from: StarkReality

@Glorfindeal may have it the nail on the head, imho.

If too much information on how the iPhone works starts to float around, perhaps some of the numerous patents Apple has outstanding my be jeopardized by both copycats and people who claim to have done it before.

I don't know. It is in keeping with the all new all powerful all controlling Apple though.

I always picture Steve Jobs sitting at his desk fiddling with a couple of steel balls in his hand and watching dozens of monitors display outgoing e-mail from employees that trigger on keywords.

You may have hit it right on the head with reference to "workaround.". Once a workaround is in broad use apple is stuck keeping the workaround functional, or facing complaints that it us breaking numerous apps if it does something that effects a widely used workaround. The iPhone sdk is still an early piece of software with features not yet implemented or released--keeping the sharing down while the sdk is still in this stage is annoying for developers but perhaps necessary for apple's own development to continue.

Steve Jobs is an insane control freak. Apple is an example of a company succeeding despite its leaders best efforts.

Supporting "workarounds" is killing Microsoft. I'd rather wait for software that does it the right way and can be supported without killing the company.

Everyone will leave iPhone for Android. Soon, there will be no more iPhone developers, just like Mac vs Windows.
Then we will have to use Boot Camp or Parallel again as our application library shrinks to nothing.

Congrats, Jobs!

"Everyone will leave iPhone for Android."

That's my fear in Apple keeping the NDA. So if it's the patents I hope they're granted as soon as possible. The OS X Mobile developer community needs to flourish.

Aug 27, 08 - 03:09 pm Comment from: Sixvodkas

If all it takes to get me a few million dollars is a muzzle, sign me up!!!

(ball gags are an entirely different matter)

Sounds pretty cult-ish to me.

Bullshit.

Another pile of lies and misinformation from that lib newspaper LA Times.

Storytelling dumbasses. Developers are elated at the deal they are getting with Apple and the money they are finally making.

This asswipe wants to always write something 'controversial'.

Piss on him.

Aug 27, 08 - 03:27 pm Comment from: mossman

The "waiting for patents to be approved" is a BS excuse. If Apple's already submitted it for consideration it's patent pending, and if it goes through they can retroactively charge license fees or sue for them.

Do you think physical devices are kept from being released, for fear that patents haven't been approved yet? No, that's what the "patent pending" label is for!

And if Apple *hasn't* submitted things for patents yet, they've screwed the pooch and it's too late--regardless of NDA someone else could have pushed through a claim already. Might not stand up in court, but Apple could've avoided the headaches entirely.

I don't know the reason, because Apple doesn't say why they're keeping the NDA in place. But keeping everyone in the dark is a boneheaded move, and they're doing themselves no favours by doing so.

And for those who think developers should be falling over themselves to develop for the iPhone despite the barriers because it's the next big thing, keep in mind there's only so much a developer will tolerate before they say "screw this!" and look elsewhere. The best in any field don't learn everything themselves in a vacuum, they learn from others--both their successes and from their failures.

Aug 27, 08 - 03:40 pm Comment from: Spark

While I think it is true that Apple wants to control the initial iPhone app development, it is time for them to remove the NDA from developers. It is counter productive. If they have a good reason to retain the NDA, they need to communicate those reasons and provide a road map for the iPhone SDK so developers aren't left in the dark. It really IS hard to develop in a total vacuum. Right now there hundreds, if not thousands of developers making the same mistakes because their experiences cannot be shared. This grumble is going to grow into a real turn-off if Apple doesn't make a change soon.

I sure hope Apple reads these comments. They seem to be a bunch of dolts and could use the brilliant expertise shown here. You folks should guard your superior knowledge, not spew it here for free. Get Apple to pay for this stuff.

"They seem to be a bunch of dolts and could use the brilliant expertise shown here."


NICE ! !

Hey MDN!
Why aren't you replying calling these developers idiots and dumbazzzes for wanting to share how-to information with each other? Well MDN????????

Aug 27, 08 - 04:57 pm Comment from: mossman

@Friday

If you were an Apple fan you'd already know Apple Legal turns away all operational ideas from the public, good or bad

Being Apple doesn't excuse them from valid and constructive criticism.

More meaningless flatulence from the site idiot.

Aug 27, 08 - 05:24 pm Comment from: ron

If you don't like the rules of the game, don't put on the uniform.

Aug 27, 08 - 05:34 pm Comment from: jocknerd

Well, lets hope if these patents are software-related, that they won't be approved and innovation will take place in the mobile phone world. Software patents are the bane of the technology world.

Aug 27, 08 - 05:45 pm Comment from: TheConfuzed1

I jailbroke my iPhone today.

Now I just need to figure out what these apps do and how they work.

Aug 27, 08 - 05:46 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

I live near Los Angeles and read the print version, and the la tIMES screwed up on the word "iPhone" in the title of their damn article, calling it IPhone, with a capital "I"!

It's not that hard, and I'd expect better from such a large paper on the front page of their business section.

Aug 27, 08 - 05:50 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Spudly: "If every time you did something someone copied it and sold it for less than you..wouldn't you grow wary? I'm sure Apple has a good reason for this...and my guess is that it revolves around the patents that are still pending on/within the iPhone... Once patents are awarded then the NDA will lift and all you folks bitching and whining will move on to the next item on your bitch and whine list..."

Two things.

1. This exact argument appeared on Daringfireball a few weeks ago. I'm not sure if you read that blog, but I'd say about the same thing as to why Apple is doing this.

2. The developers of iPhone apps are NOT the usual crowd who are always bitching, moaning, and whining about cracks in Apple products, most of them are completely new to Apple. The difficulty this NDA causes them is a real issue, and effects their livelihoods if they want to publish or share information, or run seminars. So, no they won't "move on to the next thing to whine about" because this is not an issue that effects the professional Apple complainers, nor are these devs likely to move on to another topic to complain about regarding Apple.

If every time you did something someone copied it and sold it for less than you..wouldn't you grow wary?

Yes. But what's the point of running martial law when the primary offender, MS, is guaranteed to already be in with the NDA folks?

The SDK is still *very* new, it's a baby. I can understand why Apple is proceeding cautiously. They can barely handle the road at the speed they're traveling at now, just imagine how fast things will move once developers have full freedom.

Um, new APIs and SDKs weren't a problem in the pre-Mac OS X / Rhapsody days....

WHY is Apple making their own developers go through as much BS as possible? If Steve really doesn't want third-parties on iPhone, then close it up & kill the damned developer program.

Folks, we're on a direct path to repeating the Macintosh. MS will have a "good enough" knockoff in a few years, and they'll let everyone code on it freely. Why put up with Apple's crap? Game over. :(

Aug 27, 08 - 08:36 pm Comment from: bobchr

@ clunker again
Greater liability issues. Apple has already had one frivolious lawsuit brought against it for 3G performance issues and dropped calls. Letting unregistered developers run thhrough your S#!t not only jepoardized the iPhone but potentially all the networks the iPhone runs on. Apple did not say you could not discuss your problems with them but if they are suddenly out of the loop then how can they be expected to provide future support and guide the developer community properly. Why do you think Vista and Win Moblie is such a cluster F???

Aug 27, 08 - 08:37 pm Comment from: bobchr

Thats's Win Mobile.

Aug 27, 08 - 09:14 pm Comment from: The Other Steve

No credit for passing this on to MDN?

I sent you guys the link for this two days ago!

Aug 27, 08 - 09:53 pm Comment from: iDon't

Screw a damn iPhone. I'm so sick of iPhones. I lost my signal while watching some great porn. iPhones suck.

What? No pro-apple MDN take on this? odd...

Oh! How glad would Balmer be, if M$ spies could also photocopy all these new ("futur") iPhone apps to bring them on windoze mobile!!!
What a deal. How on earth can Apple know if a developper is a "sincere" colaborator or just a damn opportunist wishing to sell anythin to anyone?!

...and forgot: how come Bill could sell "his" OS to IBM? Answer: Steve was just too naive at that time! Such mistake has NOT to be redone...

The less Apple lets leak, the sooner M$ will disapear...

I think DonJuan has it right, they don't want the info out in public because too many people will write apps that can be installed without the App Store and Apple will lose out on their (ridiculous) 30%.