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Nov 16, 07 - 01:22 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

God.. this again?

Nov 16, 07 - 01:23 pm Comment from: Angelus520

I still say no. Too many variables with the crappy hardware many of these people would run it on. Keep it a quality experience by leaving it on Mac hardware only.

Nov 16, 07 - 01:23 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Second!

Nov 16, 07 - 01:24 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

{d'oh}

Nov 16, 07 - 01:24 pm Comment from: Angelus520

Sorry, Chrissy, beat you!

Nov 16, 07 - 01:26 pm Comment from: ChrissyOne

Generic containers built to run licensed OSs are the realm of desktops, and that is the past. The future will belong to purpose-built devices with purpose-built OS variants to run them. No one seems to get this yet.

No! No! No! Apple should never ever allow their OS to be mounted on crappy hardware no matter what company.

The reason that they are in such a sorry state is because they have taken thier customers for cash cows Sony et al.

That has to stop! & not because Apple provides the means, but because those sorry SOB's have finally realised & learned the lesson.

Crabapple.

Nov 16, 07 - 01:31 pm Comment from: Crabapple

Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thou shalt not use my name in vain! He! he! heeee!!!!!!!

HERE we go again.

Dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea, dumb idea....

Enough said?

HP doesn't even care if the webcams work in Vista, so how would buggy drivers make Mac OS X look?

Tight hardware and OS integration is why I switched to Macs. Less hassle.

Keep it solely on Apple machines. Anyone who appreciates quality will want it in both the hardware and the software. Apple can supply all those people with what they want. Can you imagine all the debating about how some sh__ box is just as good as an Apple; it even runs the same programs? I do not want to suffer through it. The Apple model works. Stick too it.

YOu definitely wouldn't partner with sony to ensure quality. The reason why the closed hardware is the way to go is because as your computer spreads out into satellites, ie media server, phone etc. in order to elegantly distribute the right data to the right places, ie music to speakers, contacts to and from phone, video to tv, it needs to be thought through from the top down. Apple is creating a family of hardware that will make up the digital home. Other company's will follow suit, there will be a Dell home, and a sony home, etc. Apple just happens to be positioned to be first, even ahead to MS.

Nov 16, 07 - 01:39 pm Comment from: MacFlasher

I don't think people want to buy a Dell with OS X, but what they want is to install OS X onto their existing hardware. I don't think Apple is going to want to support that mess.

Nov 16, 07 - 01:40 pm Comment from: BustingTheSkullsOfIdiots

Wait. If controlling the h/w and s/w makes Apple better than the commodity box makers, then we make Apple better still by allowing anyone to control the h/w? Say what? This is asinine and will destroy Apple's quality.

As long as a Zune will work on my Mac........wait.....did I just say that?

Nov 16, 07 - 01:45 pm Comment from: Spark

A Macintosh is the combination of software AND hardware. Apple may not be able to stop the hacks, but this is small group that won't effect the broad universe of consumers. Keep the Mac pure. No licensing!

What if Apple were able to make up the lost hardware sales with OS sales? The margins on selling software are like 100%.

Umm, don't mess with success? It's the quality stemmng from Apple's marrying its OS to its hardware that has made the company a success. If you start licensing the OS to other manufacturers, thus begins the QC issues and the threat of a downhill slide. Ain't worth it.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:00 pm Comment from: Thorin

Licensing would be a desperate move for a fledgling company, not that of a rising star that is enjoying obscene profits. Silliness.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:01 pm Comment from: amyhre

The old modicum "If it isn't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind, cliched as it is. Of course there are things Apple can do better and improve upon. But this is not one of those sort of things. It is a complete 180 degree change. Of course, since Apple is often full of surprises, a change like this wouldn't be the first of its kind. It would, however, be rather different a 180 degree change from some of its past ones.

How 'bout Ferrari start putting engines in Fords? They'll have greater distribution and finally be able to catch up with GM and Toyota.

The OSX in anything discussion is moot. Didn't Steve Jobs say not too long ago that Apple won't ship junk? Allowing someone else to ship junk doesn't get around issue of believing in quality. By opening the platform to to all comers Apple tarnishes it's hard won image as a superior product. I doubt it will happen.

I believe that Apple has is planning on selling OS X for other computers someday but that this day depends on a certain target value of mac computer market share.

Mark

It makes no business sense to license OS X. There's a higher margin on hardware than software, so there is no reason for Apple to license the software and run the risk of losing hardware sales. It would be like dropping a ten-dollar bill while bending over to pick up pennies.

Of course, the problems that would arise from supporting OS X to run on Dells, and HPs, and Hamilton-Beach toasters would ruin Apple's stock-in-trade: the perception of high quality and exemplary service.

It is possible, however, that Apple may have to license OS X to protect its turf--just as it had to pre-release Leopard's Bootcamp to protect its hardware business.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:05 pm Comment from: Macromancer

No. Period. End of story.

Moving to Intel chips is one thing, to open Pandora's Box of mix and match kit hardware crap, it's Windows all over again.

May be Apple should partner with BFG Technologies to make sure people can buy a guaranteed video card that works under Mac OS X.

The only way I can see this happening is via a limited 'partnering' arangement which gets Apple somwhere it wants to go.

For example it could link up with (say) IBM/Lenovo and/or Sun, both of whom have the clout to get into the corporate sector which Apple on its own probably couldn't.

Yes there would be some 'leakage' but probably no more than at present with the hackers. For all the column inches given to them, nobody outside the enthusiast community is going to bother going to the lengths these guys do simply to get OSX up and running on a generic box. And that's only 'til the next update...

Nov 16, 07 - 02:09 pm Comment from: ken1w

> The margins on selling software are like 100%.

No, it's not 100%, but even if it's significantly higher than on hardware, Mac OS X sells for $129. The average price of a Mac is more than ten times that amount. Also, if Apple sells it directly at an Apple Store (physical or online), it gets the full $129. But if it sells Mac OS X through a retailer like Amazon, it gets much less. Since Amazon was selling it for $109, Apple probably gets $99 or less. And if Apple licenses Mac OS X to PC makers, the revenue per license will be much much less.

And... if that's not enough to discourage Apple from licensing Mac OS X, consider the additional cost of technical and development support. Right now, Apple just needs to support a few dozen different Mac configurations for any given release. If Mac OS X ran on generic Intel hardware, it would need to support tens of thousands of wildly different configs. And if Apple starts to rely on revenue from Mac OS X licensing, it would be motivated to make Mac OS X backwards compatible with as many older (passed their prime) PCs as possible. It would start to implement horrendous piracy protections schemes to protect that revenue. In other words, Apple would turn into Microsoft.

I, for one, would bet Apple does not go that route...

Well the argument has always been...

...can there be enough sales of Mac OS X to make more profit that the current hardware tie in?

What will Microsoft do in retaliation?

What will the PC hardware vendors do if Microsoft threatens to pull Windows licenses from them if they pre-install Mac OS X instead of Windows?

People tend to use what they are familiar with and what's pre-installed on the PC when they buy it.

I agree Apple should sell Mac OS X for generic PC's even though each sale of that version could mean one or more less hardware sales for Apple. Because people will get it for free otherwise.

Then again a person has already made up their mind not to buy Apple hardware, for example a older person who can't use glossy screens, but still want to run Mac OS X because they have a investment in software already.

Apple should try to do everything to attract and keep more users to it's OS and therefore it's exosphere because it's hardware choices are not the best right now.

So the appearance of a hacked Mac OSX on a torrent is supposed to give Apple reason to sell the OS separately from the hardware?


BWAHaaHaaHaaHaa.

I think this might be worth pursuing on a limited basis. Commodity hardware will never be part of Apple's future, but one or two strategic partners could really help broaden OS X's reach. Sony would be a good fit. Already known for designing beautiful hardware, a slick OS X based Vaio could do a lot to boost the Mac's credibility on the PC side – just so long as Apple keeps a close eye on Sony engineer's to ensure tight integration with the OS for maximum stability and functionality.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:17 pm Comment from: lee

One of the greatest impediments to Mac sales is the unfamiliarity with OS X that pervades the general population. All other considerations aside, it would be a far better world if everyone at least knew someone else who was familiar with the operating system. At present, that's not the case. Me? I'd like to see Apple take the chance and put OS X out there for a broader segment of the computing community.

How about a version that expires? A demo. Run it on your Dell for six months. After that .. get a Mac or do without. heh.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:18 pm Comment from: Andy

I think for as long as Steve is head honcho, Apple will stick to making an OS that works (and compliments) their hardware. And, anyway, isn't OS X's foundation 'Free BSD' available for anyone who wants it through the Darwin thing?

Sure, it wouldn't have OS X's spit and polish, but it's the closest thing to OS X as an alternative to Windows, hmm?

Nov 16, 07 - 02:19 pm Comment from: MikeK

It's never gonna happen. Not a chance. Not even worth discussing.

The first thing Jobs did upon returning to his CEO duties in 1997 was take back control of the Mac OS from the OEM vendors and he vowed to never license it again..

Apple's business philosophy is a completely vertical approach. Hardware and software.. Mac/OSX, iPod/iTunes, iPhone/Exlcusive At&T;partnership. This vertical approach allows Apple complete control over the user experience.

You may criticize them for this, but this is what has made Apple what it is today. Licensing the Mac OS will never be an option as long is Jobs is involved with the company.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:22 pm Comment from: hagar57

Those tech pundits couldn't convince S.J. to visit the john, even if he had the stomach flu. They're just trying. I can't see it making much sense for Apple, either. After all, they tried it in the late 90s, and S.J. axed it, because it hurt the Mac sales (although I really liked my PowerCenter Pro 210).

Get OS X working in VMWare and Parallels and the driver compatibility problems are solved. Make a ton of money for all involved and the combo would still be cheaper than Vista

So the appearance of a hacked Mac OSX on a torrent is supposed to give Apple reason to sell the OS separately from the hardware?

Well music is on the torrents because the music industry didn't respond properly to the change the customers needed.

iTunes is a success because it's finally a answer, but a little to late as millions of people are used to torrents now.

Apple needs to respond to the fact that their hardware choices absolutely suck compared to what's available on the PC side.

I can't use a lot of Apple hardware choices lately. Glossy screens and too small of a keyboard/screen on iPhones.

So I am going to investigate OS X on PC for sure, I hope it's as easy as it sounds.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:23 pm Comment from: NeonRed

Within ten years hardware will be generic enough for X's use generically. Form and function will again rule the day. The hardware market will be tiered from utility to high-end. Users will become increasingly focused on just the utility, the computers usefulness.
The days of the in-the-wild nerd are numbered; they mostly are waist deep in the river and pontificating over which boat will save them first, and soon all they will see are the ripples of the wakes. The hardware battles are over. Apple has won the software war already-- its over. The M$ mammoth is still chewing the green and trying to ignore the snow drifts.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:27 pm Comment from: neomonkey

Bad idea. Apple is special because they're not only about money like all the other brain dead companies that haven't read the Cluetrain Manifesto. Sure, the money is there, but it comes from making the best products, not chasing the numbers. No commoditization please!

Bah, sell it for 3x the cost of Windows, no warranty, and let anyone who wants to install it on a Dell do so at their own risk.

-jcr

Nov 16, 07 - 02:28 pm Comment from: Andy

Saying Apple needs to respond to its customers by being 'everything to everyone' is exactly the strategy the company has no interest in.

Essentially you're saying Ferrari ought to get off their high horse (har) and start making $15,000 compacts/station wagons, eh?

Like Ferrari, Apple has a market (afterall, they're rolling in money) and they are comfortable in the high value market they're in.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:31 pm Comment from: Tre

Steve Jobs said not to long ago that "OSX is the soul of the Mac."

With the Mac at it's strongest point in it's 30 year history, I just don't see Jobs selling his soul anytime soon.

No. The Mac is neither its hardware nor its software individually, but the combination of the two.

Got that, switcheurs? THE MAC IS A PLATFORM. As body cannot exist without soul, and vice versa, neither is a Mac a Mac without its fundamental components.

Seems to me the hardware dweebs think the Mac is about its hardware, while software nerds think it's about the software alone; real Mac users understand the one-ness of the Mac and see the question as meaningless. Only a PC user would insist the two are separable.

There was a lot of screaming and wailing when Apple switched to Intel and then again released BootCamp

But you know what? Apple is still here and better than before.

Now it's time they released Mac OS X for generic PC's. It's not like major hardware vendors Dell and HP are going to dump Microsoft, it would be suicide for them.

But for those who need to run Mac OS X on a PC, at least they get a authorized version, safe and secure.

After all Apple hardware is premium, most people can't afford premium, having to settle for MicroCrap Windows and once they get used to that, it's harder to switch them to Mac OS X later on.

So why not sell Mac OS X for PC's, to get people used to it and then later when they need a premium PC they buy a Mac instead?

Ever think of that?

Nov 16, 07 - 02:38 pm Comment from: neomonkey

Well music is on the torrents because the music industry didn't respond properly to the change the customers needed.

Not really. It's on there because Americans are greedy bastards who will steal whatever they think they can get away with. I saw this even in Europe, where "ugly American" tourists would cheat the transit systems that operated on the honor system.

In my building there are some assholes who are using P2P software to download and upload music, totally whacking the speed for hours at a time. Not only are they stealing music, they're also denying the rest of us usage of the wireless network. It's the Me Generation.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:41 pm Comment from: MrScrith

I'll 34th the measure to keep OS X on Mac hardware, the less time they waste getting it to work in all hardware environments the more time they spend making it awesome.

The only other solution...

...too the Mac OS X on PC problem is for Apple to begin offering MORE HARDWARE OPTIONS.

This way they still retain the vertical control and cater to more people's needs for different hardware requirements.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:42 pm Comment from: Zeke

@lee:

"All other considerations aside, it would be a far better world if everyone at least knew someone else who was familiar with the operating system. At present, that's not the case. Me?"

Um, don't look now, but I think that's changing. Two years ago I knew two other people with Macs. Now it's more like two dozen. By next year it'll be two hundred.

Nov 16, 07 - 02:43 pm Comment from: Wandering joe

"Are humans just naturally driven to want what they cannot have?"
LoL, just ask Adam and Eve!

Apple is obviously very successful and profitable company with its current business model. I don't see any reason to stir the pot.

Exactly what are we trying to fix by licensing OS X to commodity box builders?

Even with a less than 5% worldwide market share, Apple is making tons of money, with a fraction of headache that Microsoft, HP, Dell, and others have to deal with.

Why would Apple want to commoditize their hardware sales just to sale gain market share?

Their current model of getting the cream off the top is apparently working very well.....

Nov 16, 07 - 02:54 pm Comment from: treestman

No, no, a thousand times no:

No, Apple Should Not License Mac OS X For PCs.

Not really. It's on there because Americans are greedy bastards who will steal whatever they think they can get away with. I saw this even in Europe, where "ugly American" tourists would cheat the transit systems that operated on the honor system.

Well your experience with Americans is slim obviously and since Americans are tourists in Europe they might not be familiar with the "system". Just like a lot of Europeans fail to tip in America, at least we know they don't know any better and don't judge them all by it.

In my building there are some assholes who are using P2P software to download and upload music, totally whacking the speed for hours at a time. Not only are they stealing music, they're also denying the rest of us usage of the wireless network. It's the Me Generation.

So your sharing a internet connection with a whole apartment building?

Naturally this is going to slow things down and it doesn't say a whole lot of good about your economic status which may contribute to your bad attitude. Work harder, get better creature comforts and your life will be happier.