“The music industry is rife with speculation that Microsoft will announce before the end of the year that it is opening an online store to compete with Apple’s iTunes website. It raises the prospect of an all-out battle between Gates, dubbed one of the world’s richest geeks, and Apple co-founder Steve Jobs, described as ‘the first rock star of the technology business,'” David Smith writes for The Observer.
“According to one rumour, Microsoft will join forces with Best Buy, the vast US online electronics retailer, to sell tracks for 89 cents each. A similar arrangement would be expected to follow in Britain. The bad news for iPod owners is that it seems unlikely they could download music from Microsoft’s site,” Smith writes. “Simon Dyson, an analyst at Informa Media, which has just published a report on the market, warned: ‘At the moment, compatibility doesn’t matter because the majority of songs can be ripped from CDs or downloaded illegally. But as soon as digital downloading really takes off it’s potentially problematic. If Microsoft becomes the biggest download site, and it is incompatible with the biggest player, the iPod, that’s potentially ridiculous. It would be a nightmare.'”
Full article here.
Damn! My widget popped up with “Is Gates’ Microsoft about to declare…” and I was hoping the next word would be “bankruptcy”.
A boy can dream….
Can’t have anything be potentially ridiculous!
first post!
‘bankruptcy’? It is to laugh! haha!
Still, Microsoft is fighting a losing war against the iPod/iTunes.
From the article:
“The bad news for iPod owners is that it seems unlikely they could download music from Microsoft’s site,” Smith writes.”
Bad news? For iPod users? haha! Again, it is to laugh!
At first, I thought that a $.10 difference in song prices wouldn’t be enough to overcome the hassles involved with trying to buy, download and transfer songs onto an awkwardly interfaced music player in an inferior format.
But, then I thought of the typical PC user that is willing to tolerate a gauntlet of…
– 90,000 viruses
– blue screens of death
– constant loss of data via the now-commonplace hard drive reformat solution to most problems
– impossible troubleshooting as MS, the software developers and hardware producers all point fingers at each other rather than fixing their customer’s problem
…JUST TO SAVE A FEW BUCKS!!
Yea, it is very likely that MS really knows the incredible stupidity of their users and could actually sell a hellish interface for just 10 cents less, and actually be successful.
When evaluating if a competition will be a success or not, don’t use yourself as the litmus test, but look at THEIR users. Just look how long they have their users waiting for Longhorn. Tell me their users aren’t total idiots.
…and MS KNOWS THIS!!
isn’t walmart 88 cents and they aren’t going anywhere so why would gates take over
It’s bad news that Ipod users may not be able to download from the MS site? Is this guy for real? Man, these guys are getting desperate for writing material. Reminds of the “Deep Thoughts” segment that used to be on Saturday Night Live. I wish they would post bio pictures with their articles because I have only seen pictures of cavemen in books. It would be nice to see a real photo of one.
I think iTunes music store will prevail because iPod is still number 1. Though Steve is no fool and iPod does have buried WMA support so Apple is protected just in case� (the world tumbles and Microsoft takes over the world permanently.)
I don’t understand the logic here. If an iPod user goes to a Microsoft music site and discovers the files won’t work, then they will just go to iTunes. What is the big deal if Microsoft has a music site? Will people flock to it because of their unwavering love and support of Microsoft? No, they won’t.
People who have some of these other players may go there, or to Walmart. If they’re iPod users, they are either converting their CDs, or buying from iTunes.
I mean, really, if you have a VCR, you wouldn’t go to Netflix to get your movies because they won’t work. You go to Blockbuster and rent them because there’s no way your VCR will play a DVD.
Besides, considering Microsoft’s track record, can you imagine what this thing will look like???? I don’t see this as a big deal. Plus, once again, just shows how “innovative” Microsoft is…
Why can’t these “journalists” trust capitalism? It is almost like they expect Microsoft to invade people’s homes, remove iTunes from their computers and confiscate their iPods.
If Microsoft delivers a music service that is cheaper than iTunes music store, has the features that users want, then they deserve to win over Apple. But who actually believes that Microsoft will deliver such a store? They will sell some tracks for $0.89, others will only be available for streaming, others won’t be available for burning etc.
Apple will win this battle because they are delivering what users want. Apple’s portable music player plays MP3, AAC and more (take note Sony). The iPod has a great user interface (take note Microsoft). The iTunes music store allows you to copy any track you buy to an iPod or an Audio CD and the music doesn’t have an expiration date (take note Real).
Until the competition figures out that this is why Apple is eating their lunch, they are not competition. Apple is the only company that doesn’t have an ulterior motive for their store. They simply want to sell iPods and want to have an online store for their iPod users.
Lets look at Apple’s competitors. Real recently fell to number 3 in streaming behind Microsoft and Apple. They have no other products. If they lose the music war with Apple, the company is probably finished. They are pinning their hopes on subscription service. The problem is that Microsoft will own that market and with subscription, there is no lock-in. You simply switch your subscription to another service. Real is toast.
Sony wants to promote ATRAK as a way to lock out the rest of the world which is why their MP3 player doesn’t actually play MP3s. They are attempting a lame copy of Microsoft’s business strategy. They came very late to the game and really have nothing new to offer but they do own a large catalog of music, so they are still players.
Microsoft wants to dominate online media distribution for the whole world. They don’t care about consumers–their whole focus is to use their monopoly power to own a new market. Until Apple came along with the iPod they were well on their way to creating an unstoppable monopoly in media too. Now they are desperately struggling to figure out what went wrong because they don’t understand the first thing about marketing to consumers who have a choice.
Why is it that while this stuff is obvious, I find no mainstream journalist who writes about it?
I think Microsoft’s service will beat Apple’s!!!!!
Just like……
Buymusic.com
Napster
Musicmatch
Real
OD2
Wal*Mart
and Sony Connect
Yup, Apple better start panicking and getting ready to add WMA support.
In reality, this time next year, Apple will have announced that they have sold OVER 200 MILLION SONGS, and AT LEAST EIGHT million iPods and hPods.
MS will have taken over sales from all other WMA-based music sites (like Napster), and still will have a smaller marketshare than all of the current stores COMBINED!!!
Oh yeah, and the Dell DJ will die a shameful death. Nobody will mourn the ‘loss’, however.
iPod user: “wait, Micros**t opened a music store. Let’s visit… WHAT? won’t play on my iPod? Quick, lets sell this iPod junk and get a Rio”
uhhh, very unlikely…
I think these writers are forgetting something very important. People use Windows because their companies force them to at work, and so they use Windows at home because it is easier for them. Their companies are not going to be forcing them to use Microsoft music software or buy Microsoft compatible hardware for music. They will be left to make up their own minds. Some will buy the cheapest stuff they can find, no doubt. But Windows users aren’t that dumb, they are just forced into things by their employers. They can use iTunes on Windows and buy iPods. They won’t have to worry about not having a job based on their own decisions about music.
Whoever – as a professional writer – put on paper “Microsoft deflected questions, empha sising its current involvement in the SonicSelector online jukebox.” writing emphasizing as “empha sising” deserves only big LAUGHS
LOL, illiterate: “empha sising”. What’s more as two words.
LOL
Peter, good point. Given the choice, what is today even close to iPod + iTMS. Absolutely NOTHING.
And Micros**t does not have the capacity to invent anything, imagine inventing a better combo service than Apple’s.
Microsoft hasn’t been successful in anything but Windows OS and Office. Not a single other endevor has taken over their segment. Why do these idiots keep fearing Microsoft?
And at 89 cents, there really isn’t any profit and there is no hardware to make it up from unless they start maufacturing one. And where in all this is profit for a BestBuy…there isn’t.
jdb
You forget 1 thing. Microsoft can break into your home and disable iTunes on your Windows computer. They have disabled rival software on their OS many times before.
Apple should pay attention to their various moves.
M$ will lose face one way or another if they do that.
the only way they can disable it and not have another court case on their hands is to claim another security issue
that and iTunes is considered to be the best jukebox out there, with winamp being next
Al,
in this case Windows is the one to have to be careful: how many Windows users will understand iTunes has been broken on purpose?
This time it is an $400 iPod and additional hundred $ of music that are at stake. For what? a new crap $800 PC and $100s new Windows license in exchange?
Then the iPod halo effect will truly be visible.
jdb:
Q: “Why can’t these “journalists” trust capitalism?”
A: That’s an easy one. Most “journalists” are racist leftist socialist types that think that “capitalism” is just a method for rich old white guys standing around playing golf in a country club to conspire to steal from and exploit poor inner city blacks, hispanics, and various other minorities, while they figure out how to polute and destroy the earth.
that ANYONE thinks the iPod/iTMS pair will be broken is seriously mental. WMA is doing well for Gates and he should be proud of a..25% market share in a market where people curse his name daily.
But please. The Microsoft store CANNOT, WILL NOT be better than the iTMS. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here.
The brilliance of CTRL ALT DEL Windows was that it was the first to really quickly amass all these hardware companies and get them all on the same page, in terms of software.
With music.. Apple’s sold 100 million songs and there isn’t any reason for anyone to go anywhere else, CERTAINLY not to rock out with Ballmer to Flashdance or whatever the hell he’s doing his pilates to these days.
Obviously it would be dreadful timing for MS to pull an Apple and integrate the store into the media player software… which is bundled with windows.
The media player shall NOT be there, and MS has set up a plug in system such that other competing stores can live on the fringe (musicmatch?) and still pay MS for the use of WMA. How nice of them.
Sucks for the customer, cuz that plug in system makes it ALL very NOT sleek. These stores aren’t JUST about numbers. We alraedy know that the WalMart store sucks big German Sausage, even though they cut a staggerring 11 cents.
Fred nailed it. Since when is Microsoft’s success about anything other than leveraging a ubiquitous Windows platform, and an admittedly terrific Office Suite (you get the feeling that … looking at Office competitors is alot like iPod competitors.. there’s a reason there’s a near-monopoly: the comptetition blows chunks.. and what doesn’t blow has zero mindshare)
twilightmoon.. how very shocking and clever.. racist left wing huh?
While the left wing is trying to scrape money together so entire generations of crackheads can go to Harvard, the right-wing capitalists are outsourcing to India, Indonesia and China… paying, what is fair wage in 3RD WORLD AREAS.
What a dazzling twist for you to call Sally Struthers a racist, deep down. PFFFT.
What’s the big deal about a lame article. M$ will launch a music store and only a very small fraction of windoze users will be able to find it through the forest of malware they live in. And woe if they try to install Service Pack-2 … CERN said it overwrites old library files and installs new ones that result in the blue screen of death.
microsoft can only compete if it has a monopoly on the product.
Seahawk: The Observer is a British publication and uses British spelling for “emphasise” with an “s” instead of a “z.” The space between “empha sising” is probably a formatting mistake, just like there was for “pub lisher.” Btw, luv your name
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
Anyways, this article blows. The 1st sentence says: “Music fans are facing a ‘nightmare’ clash of technologies as Bill Gates’s Microsoft prepares a multi-million pound launch into the digital music market.”
“Are facing” a clash?! Present tense?! The writer’s an idiot. It’s not happening now. It should be, “might face” a clash!
In the 2nd paragraph: “The Apple iPod portable music player… will face a huge threat to its dominance if, as sources predict, Microsoft spearheads a rival system which is not compatible.”
“As *sources* predict?” I wonder where the *source* is coming from that thinks the iPod “will” (should be “might”) face a threat? Later in the article, we learn that *source* is Simon Dyson, a co-called media anal-yst, the same kind of nay-sayer and doomsday anal-yst who *anal-yzed* that Apple’s iPod wasn’t gonna take off.
Simon said, “If Microsoft becomes the biggest download site, and it is incompatible with the biggest player, the iPod, that’s potentially ridiculous. It would be a nightmare.”
First of all, that’s a big “if”�if Microsh*t becomes the biggest download site. Agreeing with the above comments, it ain’t gonna happen. Second, this anal-yst is a flaming queen. Talk about overdramatizing, using words like “nightmare” and “potentially ridiculous.” Third, this guy has it all wrong. Forget the “if’s”�what we know for sure is that the iPod *is* the biggest digital player and that means since Microsh*t’s download site won’t work on the iPod, the download site’s gonna fail!
Anal-yst, may ass!@#
What amazes me is that Microsoft spends $6.8 billion on R&D every year and they NEVER have anything to show for their money apart from aload of IT consultants getting rich!
They haven’t invented anything worth the R&D budget – even the ‘tablet’ pc was ripped off from the APPLE Newton that APPLE designed 10 years ago!
Wheras APPLE has a R&D budget of just $600 million and yet thev’e invented firewire (only IT company in the history of cimputing to be awarded an IT ‘Emmy’ award for it too!), wireless networking, the desktop computer, the mouse, the computer keyboard etc etc.
If I was a shareholder in Microsoft I would seriously be worrying where all the money has gone!!
At the end of the day I don’t give a toss what Microsoft comes up with to compete with the APPLE service.
I will never use it anyway – so I am not worried at all!
Another thing – I thought Microsoft is forbidden to bundle any or their media players as part of windows by the anti-trust case in Europe!!
In which case, if they release a media player that connects with media software embedded into windows that will be breaking the anti-trust law in europe.
Therefore – if Microsoft develops a similar solution to APPLE won’t that be ilegal??
One way is that they may have to have itunes pre installed as part of windows!!
NOW THAT WOULD BE FUNNY!!!
Apple would have probably sold over a million iPods in the last quarter if they’d been able to get enough of the hard disks, and this was before the ‘mini’ was introduced world-wide.
The production of the hard disks is increasing fast and the iPod mini is going to be a huge success.
I believe strongly that Apple will sell well over 5 million iPods in the next twelve months.
In view of this, Microsoft has no chance whatsoever of winning this one.
Definitely the perfect reason for Apple to finally unleash their MS Office app killer!
And to think that just as the iTMS was coming out, Gates was quite adament about MS not getting into the music business…? Can you imagine MS spending their last dime trying to promote a music service that virtually no one wants?
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> I’ll be making plenty of popcorn for that one! Woohoo!!
The PC is going away. It will be pre-empted by something like a cell phone. I just purchased a Nokia 7610, and it has 8Meg of memory, a 64Mb media card (basically a hard drive), a high resolution screen, Bluetooth wireless, Java support, a video camera etc.. I can browse the regular web with an Opera web browser and I can read email, etc.. You can buy a bluetooth keyboard for the thing – the only thing missing is external monitor support and this tiny phone could replace your PC.
What’s my point? The phone is just one vector to the eventual demise of the PC. The other vector is the media device and Apple owns that market segment. The guys at Apple are no dummies. They have BIG plans for the iPod. Watch as the scroll-wheel eventually becomes virtual on a full-screen iPod, as the iPod gains wireless capabilities, etc…
There is a countdown to doomsday for the PC industry and companies like Apple and Nokia know this. A few years from now, you will put your phone / media player in a docking cradle and turn your monitor on to do what you now do with your laptop / desktop. And you will carry it in your pocket and use that power in it’s native portable mode when it isn’t docked.
The headlines really should be reading, “Microsoft in mood of deep confusion as the world prepares to change market demand, rendering the Redmond, WA based software company completely obsolete.”
There is one way (and only one real way) that this is big news, and that’s if M$ is the company that snags the digital rights to the Beatles.
If iTunes gets the Beatles it’s all over for the competition.
Solarflare,
[What amazes me is that Microsoft spends $6.8 billion on R&D every year and they NEVER have anything to show for their money apart from a load of IT consultants getting rich! ��� They haven’t invented anything worth the R&D budget – even the ‘tablet’ pc was ripped off from the APPLE Newton that APPLE designed 10 years ago!]
Money Laundering. (Ahem! FBI?)
M$ is NOT a techology company. A look at history to the technology that has actually been created at M$. All laughably pathethic. But, they’re absolute leaders when it comes to the innovations they have made to the EULA!
M$ buys techology – starting with QDOS (when they haven’t outright stolen it – like Basic), repackages it, and then sells it for four times what they paid.
Many folks are only to happy to prop up their fake-nerd underdog, but little do they know – Bill Gates employs as near many lawyers as he does ‘software engineers’. And, lest anyone forgets – BG2 is a corporate lawyer. Is there any better way of BG2 to ensure that his geek son became the most powerful money launderer on the planet?
I don’t think the Beatles will be supremely damaging for Apple long-term.
That said, I think Steve should work to give free iPods to the remaining Beatles, and put their songs up as an EXCLUSIVE to the iTMS anyway.
I mean not getting the Beatles…
wintel users are not dumb.thats pretty mean.
You prefer your mac and they prefer PC.Windows user shouldn’t say you suck,just as you say to them.
I ones that do come on this site are annoying,let them be like that(I definely prefer mac though,and don’t like M$,because they’re kind of cheesy).
itunes and ipod are to cool to lose.Windows media has cool visuals,but itunes is much better.
shouldn’t expect much from sony.they did make the
PS2 graphics chip(which is the worst of the three consoles),so you might end up having bad hardware.
Soon to be switcher
Obviously Bill Gates is in some finicial slump. I mean, he’s about to give away 3 billion dollars to charity. What a stingy bastard.
It must suck being so rediculously poor.
the next 6 months will be crucial for Apple. what they need to do is get their marketing asses into gear and finish off a few of these rival services for good.
MORE marketing Nathan? I don’t think Apple has ever marketed ONE product so much.
I wouldn’t mind seeing more iPod + iTunes ads, especially something like this: http://www.apple.com/itunes/video/
shorter, of course.
I agree that most of the article is ridiculous. The only two possible dirty trick threats that I can see M$ trying are:
1. bundling their Music Store software in WIndows while “updating” windows so iTunes does not run well (or at all)
2. The “Golden Handcuff” Strategy mentioned of M$ signing up a bunch of the most popular groups to offer their content exclusively on their store and no other.
Hopefully neither of these will see the light of day.
That said, M$ IS M$ and many windows users of the lemming mentality variety will hop on board JUST because it is M$ doing it. Hopefully enough users will have broken free from this way of thinking to make this effect negligible. The more Apple can extend their lead and mind share the better in the meantime. They seem to be doing insanely well so far.
Charko:
IMHO, Apple are very likely to sell 5.5 million iPods in the 2004 calendar year ending 12/31.
Over 1.6 million sold so far in the two ‘dead’ quarters of the year; probably around 1.0 million due to be sold in this quarter makes 2.6 million. Apple could – component supply permitting – be capable of selling 2.9 million in the ‘holiday’ quarter given that HP Pod will be shipping through 130,000 outlets worldwide and that – in 2003 – Apple sold around three times as many iPods in the ‘holiday’ quarter than it had in the Jul-Sept quarter.
My personal forecast is that Apple will ship around 8.5 million iPods (both Apple and HP) during calendar 2005 with an aggregate value of around $1.875 billion contributing gross profit of $340M. By way of a another statistic, this also means that there will be around 16 million iPods in the wild by Xmas 05.
Cool!
Yet another potential hole for virii, hackers, malware, you name it!
Bring it on, Micro$oft! Maybe this will finally bury you under your own load of CRAP!
…sheesh…
Apple only started itms to sell iPods. They are not making ‘money’ out of the store. software only vendors who forget this are uscwap. Downloads can never be a ‘profitable’ business because Apple set the price bar too low for anyone to compete unless they follow Apple’s model – which again would put them uscwap.
Classic pincer strategy
Performed a “bikini line” on my girlfriend!!
Just to let you know it’s considerable work and the erotica wears off rather quickly.
First Post Hahahah!!
Read MDN, Rant MDN, Go elsewhere
The nice thing is that both Windoze and Mac users have had plenty of time to get used to the iTMS. Now, if BG and MS bring out their usual substandard software, everyone in both camps will have a good benchmark to compare it to and realize that they want to continue using iTMS.
This is different from the norm, where most Windoze users have not had the benefit of using the Mac to see what they are missing.
If iTunes gets the Beatles it’s all over for the competition.
You can get all of the Beatles already, at allofmp3.com, the Russian site. I don’t think that makes a bit of difference to the success of a music site, however.
Jimbo von Winskinheimer!
That’s a good point; that aspect hadn’t occurred to me.
MCCFR!
A good (and let’s hope correct) analysis.
There’s the ‘German factor’ as well. I haven’t seen a single iPod here in Berlin – but they’re just beginning to sell well.
The Germans (bless ’em) are always about a year or so behind when it comes to trends like this. But when they do catch on . . . !
This is a very large and affluent market!
Gambit: you are right. Sure these Britons can’t spell
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
“pub lisher”: by the overall tone of the article I took “lisher” as a misspelt “lither”
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”wink” style=”border:0;” />
If all CDs become copy-protected and all my favourite artists sign WMA-exclusive contracts then I would have two options: 1. Stop buying new music, or 2. embrace online piracy. The music industry would be shooting itself in the foot if it made certain artists available only on certain music stores. There is no good reason why the same libraries could not be available on every format.
I still don’t understand copy protection, even on internet music downloads. I mean, those we want to get things for free will do so. I do believe that selling music online without copy protection will only cause more people to buy music because people will feel that they aren’t screwed by the industry. If the industry treats us consumers fair then consumers will buy music. But the industry just doesn’t get it, just like they didn’t get that you could sell music online before Apple came along. I believe the next step for the industry is to remove all copy protection and then they will see that more people will buy music – which doesn’t mean that swapping will cease to exist, just that purchase will go up.
Call me stupid, but is anyone out there as reticent as I am about spending a huge amount of money on their music collection via iTMS at 128kps compression? Why would anyone do that?
We know drive space is always going to become cheaper and cheaper, therefore compression is not going be an issue in the future, so why would anyone buy files that can’t be reversed to a better quality at a later date? We know this music is looking to escape out of the headphones and into the car, the home, the office etc.
I want to spend a fortune on music, but only at a maximum quality! Is there any word out there that Apple may offer Apple Lossless on iTMS as an option.
Until then it’s still CDs folks.
Semaphore Jones,
I agree with you entirely. I’ve downloaded a few songs from iTMS just to check the quality. They’re not bad, but ‘not bad’ isn’t good enough, when you’re paying full price.
I’ve not heard any news about ‘lossless’ coming to iTMS but, as you suggest, it’ll be an option that’ll become more attractive as the capacity of hard disks increases.
Until then I’ll carry on buying CD’s
Semaphore Jones,
If you want maxiumum quality audio the you should buy the cd!
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES USE ‘WMA FORMAT’ IF YOU WANT GOOD SOUND QUALITY!!
I think Microsoft should worry about making their current product work properly and function for the “user” rather than try to get into a market which they are so “un-hip” to. Clean up your act first!!!
God! I love my Mac!!!
But it’s funny how I have never heard anyone say
….ever….
“God, I love my Windows”.
By the way..an iPod is REALLY an external firewire storage device first…and as a Mac user with an iPod..I can install a System X folder on my iPod and boot up with it and run diaganostics. Which, funny thing, in the past 2 years with Mac OS X I have only had to do that ONCE with someone else’s computer that was acting a little funny. Fixed it!!
Can’t do that on a PC!
I’m bewitched that the 128kps topic hasn’t been discussed at any great length. I sense that the early iTMS adopters (who are generally the most passionate music lovers) aren’t painting their music collection into an inferior quality corner. Surely people need to think beyond their iPod.
We all want our music for life, so where’s the benefit here?
That goes for all AAC, WMA or ATRAC formats.
…of course this may all change under a subscription model, where pressumably you can just update you library (all be it laborious) to the highest quality available at a later date.
‘If Microsoft becomes the biggest download site, and it is incompatible with the biggest player, the iPod, that’s potentially ridiculous. It would be a nightmare.’
How can this be possible? To be the biggest you’ll need to offer a complete solution, yet M$ has to come up with a complete solution before they can forecast a large market share, otherwise, I think that this is a superficial statement. – M$ must have a better music store than iTunes and should have a better mp3 player than iPod; so far, this hasn’t happened yet.
The quality on iTunes is fine for most users. Not everyone has a need to hear everything with such high standards.
Re: racist left wing
I’m sure there are many left-wingers who truly want to help the more unfortunate. It seems obvious, however, that those in control of left-wing political parties have a vested interest in keeping poor people (of all races and ethnic backgrounds) poor. Once someone no longer needs the left-wing politicians to take money away from those who are working, they have less incentive to vote for those who will now take money from them.
Socialism, like any form of government, will work if people were perfect. Capitalism assumes the truth, that people will act in their own self-interest, and tries to gain as much benefit for society based on that truth. All other forms of government that ignore that basic human motivation end up corrupted by those who are given the power to take away the earnings and rights of individuals.
Socialism can never work because there is no mechanism in socialism to know the true price of anything.