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Let's judge products when they are released.

The KEY and only KEY to enterprise integration of the iPhone, will be exchange integration. FULL PUSH EMAIL/CALENDER/CONTACTS with microsoft Active sync, or some other ALREADY existing exchange server technology.


This will be the ONLY thing that i NEED in my portable and the one thing the iPhone is lacking.....

Only one way to see how things turn out....

Stop speculating and just wait and see...

Apple, don't fail me now.

I think they can coexist for awhile.
As far as RIM, Jobs will keep whittling away at their business slowly, while they try to re-gather.

Also, a new episode of Tiki-Bar TV is out today!
Ah, Lala. The only woman that can drive me to drink....and hopefully to her place afterwards!

MW:perhaps......hmmm.

Just another blackberry from a rim job

Gosh, where do these people get these names for their products/companies?

'User Interfaces designed by colorblind dyslexics with ADD?'

I dot'n apreshite being caleld a......waht were we taklin bout?

I'm not understanding the logic behind the "iphones" is not for business argument. I understand that some phones may be tied to proprietary systems. But even assuming that they'll never change to adopt the iphone (unlikely) what percentage does that entail.

I know it's hard to believe, but mobile phones have only existed for the past 15 years. When I was in sales 10 years ago, only the most successful reps had mobile phones (they were expensive). They then slowly filtered down throughout the entire sales force. Only when most of the sales force had a phone did they start to appear in the general public. Businesses and business people have the money to buy new technology if the new technology meets their needs. I would argue that successful business people are going to be the FIRST to acquire the new iphone.

I guess you can't lick that RIM (said firmly tongue in cheek, of course).

HeHeHe TowerTone said RIM, Jobs!!

MDN Magic Word: behind

HaaaaHaaaaHaaaa!! Man I need to go home!

Hey, some of my best friends are colorblind dyslexics with ADD.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Dang, TT. You beat me to it. (Is that pnik or grene? What? WHAT?)

MDN's take is right.

The Crackberry will be the last to fall.

Seems to me RIM has built it's market niche around a single feature, push email. That's kind of been around a long time, twenty years or so, we used to call them faxes. I had a Duo 230 with internal modem and fax software back in 1993/4.

Really if push email is the big advantage that RIM has sure makes the competition look real dull.

@Falkirk I got my first mobile phone in1986.

Some people confuse Outlook with email.

For those people, email operates via the web and is usually sent to your IP's Server where it is forwarded to the recients IP's server.

The receipient and sender will most likely have outlook as their default email program. They configure or have someone configure Outlook to let your IP's server forward the message to outlook who will then present it to you.

iphone will not need outlook as it will communicate directly with your IP's server and present your mail via whatever program is available, I believe Yahoo or Google.

So eMax, please learn how these things work before displaying your ignorance. It will help you determine how best to use technology available to you.

So RIM have managed to convinve some investors that they will be immune.

Just you wait until investors lay their hands on the iphone and realise the impact it will have, they will more than likely think short and hard over whether their investment is safe or not in RIM.

Ooff! Watching paint dry has affected my spelling! Sorry everyone!

I'm afraid I have to concur with most all of MDN's final comebacks on this one. The fact that this technology [RIM] is well established will make for good, and real, competition for the iPhone coming out of the starting gate, but the iPhone simply screams, "...enterprise me baby...!", while being simply irresistable, functionally AND aesthetically, to us regular consumers. Anyone who tells you otherwise is only twisting in the wind.

Although I'm equally bothered by articles like these, I really don't think that MDN is being fair about RIM. They've produced products that people liked. What other company makes cell phones that you can get "addicted to", as I've heard many describe the blackberry. It's no iPhone, but that is still admirable. RIM was never the evil that Microsoft is.

When Palm was making good PDAs, it seemed to fit with the "simplicity", "think different", and for a short period of time the "elegance" characteristics that we Macheads are so in tune with. That didn't last very long. RIM started to do the same. It probably will not last very long either. But just because they will soon be directly competing, or trying to compete with Apple, does not mean they are "colorblind dyslexics with ADD".

Just my 2.5¢

Seriously, I have to admit that there is no passion to take down BlackBerry like there is Microsoft, Real, Creative, Dell, etc..

I hope BlackBerry can change and improve there innovation strategies. Apple is going to change the industry. If there are one or two strong competitors to Apple, it will mean Apple will have to innovate even more.

I suspect there will be some people who will prefer their Blackberry simply for its physical keyboard. Even if the iPhone has spectacular entry there will be some who like to push buttons. For every 1% short of spectacular the iPhone is there will be more who want buttons.

My current cell phone is a piece of junk but thanks to tactile keys I can dial a new number with my thumb and without needing to look at the keyboard. I figure there's an iphone in my future but I also figure that I'll miss thumb-dial.

RIM has had it's day in my opinion.

The iPhone needs to have push email capability for ALL email accounts, just like the Blackberry currently does. Not just for Yahoo email accounts, but for ANY POP or IMAP based email account.

iPhone is FUD-d due to nothing but incremental technology from RIM and the rest.

Analysts in the pocket of these companies see Apple as a pure consumer company, and while the iPhone is likely to be marketed to this market, ATT is targeting it's business customers - that's a huge lot of customers for ATT to switch to iPhone, and will likely have a huge success rate.

The analysts seem to say the following:
- iPhone does not connect to other push mail systems than Yahoo! And free Yahoo! is a problem becuase?... Oh yes, it does not fund the pockets of the big carriers. Silly me, I forgot about that.

- iPhone does not read M$ Word documents, therefore it is not a business device. Outright ignorance of FUD, as Steve Jobs, in an interview the day of the iPhone announcement, said it would be able to read Word documents at launch.

- It does not have a great keyboard to email with. Not only will it have an amazing email program in mail to work with, but typing on this keyboard will be amazingly smooth once one gets use to it - this according to several who have used it. Secondly, typing 5 words a minute faster per minute is not crutial in business. The messages are not a disertaion, but quick, cryptic notes to fellow employees or customers. Most just see an email and call back in response. This keyboard stuff is pure FUD.

- Lastly, with Keynote in Apple's back pocket, one can only assume it will be incorporated into iPhone, and will open PPT documents with ease. It will also contain Preview, which will easily open PDF documents as well. Add in the other features, such as state-of-the-art navigation (great for travel), and the best web browser off the desktop, and it is better than any device for business users on the market - and visual voice mail - perfect for filtering out your buddy vs. business calls.

At least the iPhone has quickly exposed the true analysts vs. the Redmond cash cows...

How this is not the killer mobile business device is stupid is as stupid does.

"So eMax, please learn how these things work before displaying your ignorance. "

RIM is sucessful because of their full integration with Exchange Server email, calendaring and contacts, not because they can read mail from pop/imap servers.

Get with understanding why the Blackberry is so popular before you criticize it or suggest that the iPhone does anything remotely close.

@ CRABAPPLE

clearly you should take your own advice.

Microsoft Exchange server in an Enterprise Environment works COMPLETELY different then a standard ISP. Realize i said microsoft EXCHANGE SERVER NOT OUTLOOK.

you give me a wireless phone that Does NOT use Microsoft Active Sync or a BES that can access my Company's email/calender/contacts with its currently existing Microsoft exchange server 2007 then i will gladly accept you as being correct, until then. take your own advice and dont talk about things you dont understand.

Seems to me that Google Maps would be a killer app for a lot of travelling business people.

Sorry, TMF.
Looks like I shoulda waited for the quality.
I didn't work in the colors.....

Absolutely right, if there's no Exchange/Notes/GroupWise integration (not e-mail, but full integration), iPhone isn't for business. This is really pretty simple stuff to understand.

If Apple wants to sell a metric shiatload of iPhones to business they'll be working with RIM to get a version of Blackberry Connect working on it. Short of full integration, I really don't see these going into a lot of businesses. I'd love to have one, but between AT&T;and what we don't know about full integration, I'm not planning on having one.

@d - good point. I'm a really fast typer and write enough emails on my Blackberry that it matters. (I was pretty good at Graffiti too) I'm not switching for anything that slows me down. Probably.

I haven't been keeping up - have there been any rumors about adding a stylus and creating a Newton 2?

Hey Crabapple - you're wrong and eMax is right.

It has nothing to do with Outlook. It is an Exchange Sync issue. More specifically its the ability to sync your Calendar and Contacts with an Exchange server (which is what a lot businesses run). Email can be obtained via IMAP so that is not a much of a problem as synching the calendar and contacts

- iPhone does not connect to other push mail systems than Yahoo! And free Yahoo! is a problem becuase?... Oh yes, it does not fund the pockets of the big carriers. Silly me, I forgot about that.

Silly me.. Our company paid tens of thousands of dollars so I could have an email address like

Won't we be the pride of the business world when I become How Professional!!!! And our CEO can become ...

The inability to push corporate email address IS a big deal. Trust me, No professional organization wants a YAHOO adddress...

RIM... have it and don't want it. I work for a 75000 employee company and RIM is present here but 0 of the people who have a RIM at this company hate it.
Does that answer how popular RIM is? Cause when you don't have an option you just have to have something... and that is why here we have RIM.
Your honor, I rest my case.
Thank you

Don't bet on it!

It's a real shame that people who have to go along with the demands of the business they work for are so restricted in what they can do and how they can do it. I'm very glad not to be in that position. I feel sorry for them.

I worked at a cell phone store for a few years and noticed that it just takes only 1 person to start a massive trend by buying the newest phone. When their family and friends see what they have, they all go out and get one for themselves. I can't wait to see the iPhone "explosion" that will happen.

Look around and see how many corporate types have a Crackberry. Now, next year at this time, look around and see how many of them have an iPhone instead.

Hey, I love the iPhone "idea" but Apple has waited way to long in getting this thing to market. Should have never talked about it until June and released in June. Anywho, I am buying one.

I'm an avid Mac guy. But even I can realize that there is no way the iPhone is going to harm RIM. At least in the short to medium term. That's not to say the iPhone isn't leaps and bounds ahead in some areas. Actually, it's leaps and bounds ahead already in almost every way. But (and this is a big "but") do not underestimate the push e-mail factor. I know, I know. Steve Jobs said the iPhone's e-mail will work just like a Blackberry. Fact is, this is just a lie, plain and simple. Yes, with a Yahoo account you'll be notified when you have a new e-mail (meaning, you'll get a text message telling you you have a new e-mail... it's just that AT&T;will not charge you fot that SMS, hence the "free push"). Now, is this good enough for Joe Shmoe? Absolutely. Is it good for Joe Business? Nope. I see Joe Business going with RIM (especially given the BB system's enhanced security features). People go with Blackberries for the e-mail. There are hundreds of phones on the market with better features overall, but none can compete with BB's e-mail. Neither can the iPhone. Not bashing it, but just be realistic and don't be so quick to drink the Apple Juice .

...calling home by saying "iPhone home", or calling the office by saying "iPhone office". Also think about having the iPhone read web pages to you while you're driving.

Who needs a tactile feedback when you can control the iPhone with your voice?

Don't assume others won't want (need) tactile feedback just because you don't.

Also, remember that corporate IT departments have spent a lot of money on Blackberries and won't be quick to say their great ideas are outdated. Department heads won't be quick to authorize purchases of new phones when the BBs haven't been depreciated. (since they probably wouldn't have been capitalized this isn't an accounting issue but it is a cashflow issue and will impact their operating OH budgets) Corporations have long-term contracts with their wireless providers - it isn't as easy as Joe Phoner just switching services.

MS doesn't control the office because it's the best. It controls the office today because it controlled it yesterday and big ships take a *long* time to change course.

I agree there is no way business people will want yahoo email. However, I do believe in time Apple will establish their own push servers much like RIM has and offer push email with the clients own TLD.

I also have read where Cortado plans to offer a premium push service for the iPhone. If true, this will make the yahoo suffix unnecessary and push service will indeed be 'just like the blackberry'.

Still though, e-mail isn't the whole story. It's also calendars and contacts. I hope Apple can figure it out, but right now the only thing we know we can do is get e-mail only from Yahoo. That's not integration with Exchange or Notes, and that's what it's going to take.

This isn't a slam against the iPhone, this is just the reality of the business marketplace.

Full exchange integration is necessary for business. The lack of an Exchange alternative is the reason MS has such a lock on corporate computing.

As for Blackberry's, I don't like their interface, but they are tough as nails. I had to carry one for work (unwillingly) and I dropped it all the time in attempt to "break" it. No dice, it kept on going. If the iPhone can match the ruggedness of a Blackberry, add Exchange support, and their UI works as well as we hope then it will overwhelmingly rule the phone market.

is with the browser, and those lovely ie 6 only sites. the part of the employee website where i work is ie 6 only, so i can't view my paycheck from home, our benefits site was ie 5.5 only but now works nicely with firefox, and barely with safari; switching user agent just doesn't work on the employee site, kinda works on the benefits site.

@Intheshelter

I'm not as lucky as you. Im on my third BB. Company is getting tired of replacing them. Also as someone mentioned, syncing with Lotus Notes is a nice feature and it makes the device much more usable in a corporate setting.

The iPhone is EDGE network. Anyone here realize how slow that is? Blackberry is 3G. Enough said

Perhaps we should calm down until at least one of us has actually used the thing. It could be so (to use a 20th century phrase) insanely great that any problem will be worth overcoming. It could be so insanely disappointing that no one wants to try.

"take your own advice and dont talk about things you dont understand."

Your post is incoherent. What are you trying to say? that it is important to you that your phone works with Exchange Server or that it's not?

"Seems to me that Google Maps would be a killer app for a lot of travelling business people."

Not so much. No true turn by turn mapping. What can be said is that's better than nothing. True turn by turn navigation apps like TomTom on Windows CE are much better.

But Google Maps already runs on just about any smart-phone out there so it's not a differentiating feature