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no they won't.

I'm love my Mac - don't misunderstand - but I don't believe that IT people are looking at OS X because of the Vista delay...

Not going t happen

Our IT dept (supporting over 130 international offices) is count the seconds to a stable and apple supported windows solution, boot camp is great but it's beta, as is Parallels awsome solution. But we look forward to the day of handing out apple laptops and booting as XP for those turning is Dells, and OS X for those who are upgrading their ibooks and powerbooks. We will only need to stock parts for one brand of laptop, and only need a laptop service contract with one vendor. It won't be long now....

Doesn't make sense. IT departments like everything the same, so sticking a couple of Macs in there isn't going to make things easier, even though they are better, easier to use and maintain.

And, the writer assumes that businesses are going to switch to Vista. Doubt it. I know some businesses that still run Windows 2000, and one that still runs servers with NT4 on them.

won't happen. Never met an IT person yet who wasn't anti apple.

You don't know the history of information technology. I do.

Jim: I bet all of the IT people you have met have been MCSEs. Have you met any UNIX or Linux ITs? I have met some who actually use Mac OS X as their daily driver. They love it. I also work with an MCSE on a weekly basis that uses his IBM ThinkPad but also carries his Powerbook with him wherever he goes, and his clients love trying it out, myself included.

When Leopard supports Dual Booting and the PowerMac comes with an Intel chip (or two) inside then I will be upgrading my home office.

That way, I can use OS X at home, but when I need to telecommute and VPN to modify some .NET code in Visual Studio, I can do so without having Dell sitting around to otherwise gather dust.

"I've never met an IT person that wasn't anti apple."

So true. Know why? Because our computers usually just WORK. That really freakes IT departments out.

IT folks are also notoriously lazy. I'm in the small creative group at a satellite office of a HUMUNGOUS world-wide corporation, and we use Macs. The IT deparment and the rest of the company, however, use PCs. We asked them to get an XServe for our department. They did. But all they use it for is a $3,000 hard drive. They don't use it to administer at all. No auto updates, no print server, NOTHING.

That means it's up to me and one of my Mac-centric coworkers to do their jobs for them, becuase they're too lazy to skim through a manual and learn how to use Macs.

Pathetic. I want a raise and a title change.

m

Nonsense.

It won't happen.

Businesses take a long time to move. I bet some are still getting over the transition to XP. I cannot think that businesses who care about their profits want to update the corporation's operating systems and PCs when in all honesty there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to.

Someone please explain what the compelling reason to upgrade to Vista is? Just fire away.....

Anyone?

I must agree it's not going to happen.

1: Single vendor for hardware and software, sure you could boot another OS, but you still need drivers for fans and other things that come with Apple hardware. If M$ doesn't support Apple hardware with drivers, who will?

2: Cost of retraining from Windows. Lets face it most people just know how to use a computer barely enough to do what they need to get their paycheck. Th ecost to retrain would be huge.

3: Shear amount of software and OS tie-ins with Windows.


Even though Apple has lowered the bar and made their hardware and software more Windows friendly, it's nowhere as close as Gateway, Dell, HP, E-Machines, Levenco etc etc...

Plus Mac OS X suc's as a server OS.

I'm . . . gonna . . .

. . . get me a shotgun and kill all the IT's I see!

I'm gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the IT's I see.

When I kill all the IT's I see,

There'll be no IT's to bother meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee,

I'm . . . gonna . . . get me a shotgun and kill all the IT's I see!!!

Idiots. Supposing this and that. No large IT department is going to endorse Macs, even ones that can run Windows. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot. until it comes down from the top (executives forcing them to switch) it just isn't go to happen in any significant numbers. Apple needs to continue hitting the home users. That's the target. 5 years of penetration there, some serious issues when Vista actually ships, a few HUGE virus scares with that cow, and maybe the big companys will then start to look around.... maybe.

IT deparments are not worried about Vista delays. They would not load it for years anyway. Where I work, we're just now upgrading to XP on the desktop Our servers were running pre-Windows 2000. Hell, M$ could go out of busness tomorrow and they'd still be running Windows for the next five years!


word=never, as in IT will never give up Windows in favor of anything else. They just love it too much.

Vista can do photos...may be?

Is this compelling enough?

Oh, yeah and alreay has viruses written for it. New ones that is.

Mudflapper is right. These people are lazy, and stubborn. They'd rather just stick to their old tired arguments against Macs than actually have to learn something new. The argument that people don't like change begins and ends with these guys when it comes to computers.

Hey, where are the IT guys to defend themselves...

Oh, they don't read these forums. I think I saw them playing solitaire in the back.

It'll take a bigger problem than Vista being late and losing Millions to Malware and spyware. There's just nothing in OS X to impress a your average IT person. They don't get the nuances, they see what they have as "Good As" with no motivation to think better. Not to mention that management is even more in the dark than the IT dept.

If I switched my organization to Macs, then I'd have to fire 2/3 of my IT staff, and then my IT budget would be so much smaller, that my importance in the organization would be diminished.

The problem is Macs are TOO good!

That Tom Cruise, he's a crazy one…

I've been buying and selleing pcs since they were born, and I can tell you that the world is at least a full generation of IT professionals away from even considering anything but Windows. And that's only if the current trend begins to accelerate over the next five years. (The trend being more positive media coverage, more interest by end users that aren't already non-Windows users, etc.)

I do love the sentiment though - and I love to be dead wrong too.

That is pure nonsense. Where I work the IT dept is only ow getting rid of our Win 98 machines, only because MS is dropping support. The "new" machines are old Compaq boxes they bought. I did not know that HP was even shipping computers with a Compaq logo on it.

They do not want change. And there is never any money for anything.

DIMEBAG: Do you work for a tabloid? Becuase if you do, I will sue you. And believe me, I know the history of frivolous lawsuits.

I ran across some sort if InfoWorld or whatever article that looked at the questio of whether LINUX was positioned to take advantage of Vista delay, XP viruses...In short, this same theory, but for LINUX.

You know what, it was all the same rationale - software, installed base/retraining....blahblahblah...

Ain't never gonna happen for either platform.

It's called money and manpower to throw out their PC's for Macs. Especially when people are whining that Apple is expensive.

IT depts not looking at Apple? Who says?

I think AT&T;qualifies as having an IT dept and a programmer friend of mine who's been with SBC for 20 years says THEY'RE looking at Apples (funny, they don't call them Macs).

Real IT depts won't be upgrading to Vista ANYTIME SOON because they already know it's gonna be full of bugs and rewrites.

An IT friend at Hallmark Cards told me they spent too much on their customized Windows system and won't be upgrading to any newer version soon but THEY'RE looking at Macs (their art department still uses Macs and they're the only reliable machines in the joint). All the Windows users there are envious of the Mac users because the Macs work great (the whole place used to be Mac but some butt face in IT talked corporate pinheads into Windows because it's so much cheaper. If they migrate to Apple hardware they get better support, better hardware, and the ability to boot out of Windows to Macintosh when they don't need to be on the corporate network.

I'm sick of hearing about BootCamp because I have no intention of polluting my pristine Macs with that malware, but BootCamp is one of the biggest advances to come out of Apple in years.

MafiaSoft should be pissed at Apple if for no other reason, it nullifies MS purchase of Virtual PC. I secretly hope that Apple gave Connectix a heads up so they could sell their flagship software to MS before Apple dropped the bomb and made it useless.

I think Just passing through works for the same company I do. Same timeline, same mind set.

One more-besides just upgrading to XP on the desk top, some of our ABSOLUTELY most critical applications are still MS-DOS. My company is in no way worried about Vista's delay

I'm a pro-Apple IT person. Yes, I'm lazy. Why is it so hard to believe that I'd rather deal with a company full of nice quiet problem-free Macs, instead of a company full of virus- and spyware-laden WIndows machines?

Sure, there's job security in cleaning spyware off the CEO's computer for the third time this week. But there's job satisfaction in knowing that no matter what website the CFO goes to on his Mac, I won't need to clean it off.

The IT people who are most rabidly anti-Mac are usually the ones you don't want to hire anyway: the ones with tech skills and knowledge that are five or six years behind the times, as shown by their complete ignorance of OS X and its BSD/Mach foundations.

All that said, though, it will take an evolutionary change for Apple to unseat Microsoft. The companies that use Macs will need to spend less on IT infrastructure, and will thus be able to easily outcompete the companies that use Windows. The proof of this is left as an exercise for the first company with enough nerve to try it.

I suggest you all look back to last week's news (Financial Times) and see that a certain Japanese bank is switching TOTALLY to Mac ! Guess why ?

"...sure you could boot another OS, but you still need drivers for fans and other things that come with Apple hardware."

You're a little confussed. The issue with the fan in the Intel Macs running constantly while running Windows occurred with the solution developoed by two guys that craked how to run Windows on these new Macs.

I'd love to hear that IT departments are giving a serious second look to switching to the Mac platform and have it be true, but I have to call bull on this one.
Businesses right now don't care about Vista. Vista, at least according to the way MS has publicized it, is COMPLETELY aimed at the consumer. XP may have been a major upgrade over 2000, but in no way is Vista a major upgrade. It's just fodder for the consumer. So maybe IT departments are looking at Macs now because they know Windows is slowly becoming even more of a piece of trash, but it has nothing to do with the delay.

Here's a link to a Reuter's report about Aozora Bank switching to Macs:

http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=ousiv&storyID=2006-04-10T055920Z_01_T284842_RTRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-FINANCIAL-AOZORA-APPLE-DC.XML

Note the 3rd paragraph from the bottom where CTO Bill Chute basically says the switch was ultimately less about trend and more about tech. issues. Hmmmm

Sounds like a slap in the face to notion that "real" business machines are Windows, or even MS-DOS based.

I'm IT. Granted a low level computer tech with no decision in purchasing but I use and love Macs. I can tell you though with certainty that if I suggested replacing even 1 PC with a Mac it wouldn't happen. On the other hand I know we won't be in any rush to switch to Vista. We're just now almost done with our migration from Win 2000 to XP =).

I am a systems administrator for a professional college at a large state university. Every computer I've ever owned personally has been by Apple. I don't want to deal with that crap on my OWN time...

Slowly people are starting to see the light. We've had defections (one the Dean of the college) from Windows to Macs.

One Department head just bought himself a brand new quad G5 and MacBook, plus two iMacs for his lab. (but he was a big Mac user when he got here)

The Mac presence in ths College has gone up to about 15% of all systems (about 40 Macs, all told, last I counted), and more and more students are coming in with them, as well.

Windows still dominates, but this is up from *three* macs not too many years ago, and an officially Mac-hostile IT department. (I had to do any Mac evangelism on the sly...)

And lordy lordy lordy I know about all the MSCE's...we advertised for a Lunix/Unix sysadmin and got about 5000 resumes showing not a speck moment of unix experience from MSCE holders, who slathered the damn logo all over everything like their resume was a freakin' Nascar car.

If they couldn't even read the ad, why should I let them near my systems?

Still, big corporate IT is still standardized on Win2K, and for good reason. It was the high-water mark, imo, of the Windows OS.

The delay with Vista isn't going to mean a wehole lot to them, certainly not to the extent of abandoning windows.

We're going to see vista as it trickles in on new systems, as old ones are replaced.

What if Apple's OS was successful in deep penetration of the large business computer market, say they were heading for a 20% market share overall?
Then the pushback would be enormous, because Apple has both the OS and the hardware, and no other company could muscle in. So they would go the political route, and force companies to split their orders, or legislate to open up Apple's OS and /or hardware. Whereas MS does not control the hardware market, so there is more of an appearance of competition amongst the hardware manufacturers.

And large companies don't like to have to order computers from just one company. Even though they mostly end up with Windows, their focus seems to be on the hardware, taking the o/s for granted as the de facto standard. Of course, if Apple licensed its OS things would be very different, but at least consumers would get more choice in hardware and price. Apple, however, would lose its sparkle. So it is best to stay a bit under the radar because size can bring unwanted and unforeseen problems.

Still and all, Hortense thinks that companies that move holos bullus to the OSX will have a competitive advantage, but their in-house psychiatrixes mightn't have as many patients to feed: can't have too many happy campers in the pen. Work must be made as unpleasant as barnyard effluent, after all.

Most large corporations are using Active Directory and Exchange Server as enterprise directories and messaging, respectively. A Mac is totally out of place in the direction to centrally manage all corporate assets. Group Policy and SMS software deployments/inventory are ignored by the Mac. Until companies migrate OFF of AD or Exchange (not very likely), the Mac will continue to stand out as a unmanageable stepchild in an otherwise managed environment.

IT departments are used to having a monopoly on knowledge. That's why they fear the Mac; they don't understand it.

I think that Microsoft is doing a stealth job here.... They are letting VISTA take all the heat, when it fact it VISTA is only going to be the 'consumer' version of the next windows.
What you are not hearing about is Microsoft doing an Apple. They are as we speak, blog, what ever, quietly, and with great stealth developing an IT version of its software. this software won't even be available at retail outlests, and will be All corporate, all snug tight with REAL security. Microsoft will charge big bucks for it, and corporations will pay big bucks for it. Vista and Xbox will be small blips on Microsofts balance sheet compared to this.

Think about it: expecting Vista to be a consumer version and a commercial version all on one OS is a bit much..... Will Vista tie right in to the corporate version Sure. But they will be completely different. Who knows? the commercial version might be UNIX Based. Vista will attempt to mimic the Mac application software, with tepid poorly thought out knock off versions of the ILife suite. Vista will suck, but people will buy it anyway because the don't know any better, and thats what they are used to.

Me? I only want XP because of some rather esoteric Napoleonic war era strategy games not ever available on my beloved mac. In fact I wouldn't even connect the XP side of my mac to the internet for fear of catching a virus. Just for games- a few, select strategy games. Thats it? Why bother with anything else?

GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS!!!

Apple has stated over and over that they are a consumer products company.

Not a godfarting enterprise or buisness company.

So go take Toms Cruise stupid religion, my dead stinking chicken and shove it far up Ballmers ass, right next to the chair.

That's what I was kind of saying Andrew. Vista is Micrsofts feeble attempt to be consumer product OS X knock off. Vista can't be both consumer and Business (corporate) OS. So they break it up.. YOu just aren't hearing about the business side of it yet because MS knows they need to deliver a rock solid, absolute secure, Ft. Knox OS for Corporate use. That's where the money is for them.

OS X is just the frame of reference for VISTA, but for them there is no money it it anymore. If Dell is selling a PC for $399, how much of that is MS's take? $30 bucks maybe for a legitimate OS? Not a lot in it for them. Even Apple, as you so descriptively put it, is a consumer/ hardware company. They want to sell you hardware, or have you shop on their site. Hence the stores in upscale shopping centers. Ever see a Microsoft store? Why would they?

Why would corporate IT be interested in Mac OS X when Apple is not interested in corporate IT?

RE: Garrett Morris

That was funny. I suppose many here are too young to remember that skit.

IT departments usually have NO input in the real IT decisions. These are taken at the top of the company, and there people only know two things:
1. The newspapers talk about Windows, and the managers have Windows at home, so the company NEEDS Windows to be COMPATIBLE
2. When the top managers need a decision to cut costs, they believe that Open Source is the answer, and hence they believe that when moving away from Windows they should move to Linux.

These people have no freaking idea about the meaning of the word "compatible" or the hidden costs of Linux.
But they look at the purchase cost of an Apple as compared to a PC and see a huge difference. Hence: READ MY LIPS, NO APPLES.

There are exceptions, but hey: we all know only a very small minority of people is truly intelligent, so...

The main reason to keep M$-PC's is, eight out of ten IT-workers can lose their job, if switching to "Apple".

I think the author gives IT folks way too much credit. Why dump Microsoft when it keeps them in a job? Sorry. Not gonna happen.

@ Enterprise IT >

Most large corporations are using Active Directory and Exchange Server as enterprise directories and messaging, respectively. A Mac is totally out of place in the direction to centrally manage all corporate assets. Group Policy and SMS software deployments/inventory are ignored by the Mac. Until companies migrate OFF of AD or Exchange (not very likely), the Mac will continue to stand out as a unmanageable stepchild in an otherwise managed environment.

Well, more fool them for allowing their enterprise to become hostage to a single software supplier whose record for developing proprietary solutions when standards-based technologies already exist is second to none.

When you say a Mac is totally out of place for the central management of assets, what you mean is "totally out of place when using Systems Management Server [SMS] (or, as I prefer to call it, Send More Support). If Enterprise IT used a cross-platform toolset like LanDESK, maybe the Mac wouldn't stick out as much.

In any case, if support doesn't exist for Macintosh in SMS, whose fault is that? Apple or Microsoft? Let me hazard a guess that maybe MSFT doesn't want the Macintosh trespassing on 'their' territory.

As a previous respondent said, this is down to laziness from the CIO office downwards. MSFT sales people came along and offered them a handful of magic beans for a knock-down price and Corporate IT in a fit of epic myopia took the bait hook, line & sinker.