MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

What does he mean "or"? With Macs you can have both.

Does anyone with a brain only look at Windows for solutions, there are probably dozens of departments that could use a Mac to do what needs to be done. And if they need to use a windows App, Parallels, or they need to install Terminal services or Citrix which will cut down on the number of Windows desktops that can be corrupted by the virus of the week..

(first post?)

Windows Vista...the best and most expensive Mac 'switch' campaign ever developed.

Daniel Robinson writes for Computing.

This is the biggest load of crap I have read on MDN. Is this guy getting paid for this? The IT boys are runnin' scared, break out the banjos boys and head for the hills.
MDN don't publish the email for these sad folk, they should continue to live in the shrinking world they inhabit just like the Dodo.
Boy I feel like it's Christmas Eve.

Alright..
The real question he asking here, what can we do to justify to the bean counters purchasing new computers and increasing IT support cost for having to implement new technology, when Vista is really just a skin/theme for XP. and if the bean counters realize this they are going to ask, why spend the money...

IT Managers at work.
Remember OS X means less tech support (obviously in the beginning the tech/IT cost is going to be higher from just implementing a new system, much like money they are looking to budget from Vista), but then over time it will drop.

If it were a matter of replacing existing boxes with Apple hardware vs. simply upgrading the MS OS on old hardware, there might be a valid cost consideration. But if they are upgrading anyway to premium Wintel systems, there is no contest: OS X wins hands-down.

To the list of defunct companies you can add Gateway. For all practical purposes they are already there.

A Good Title, post 9-11, since that's all we hear from Bush... all the time.
"I'm glad you invited me to speak at the dedication of this new Aquarium here in Omaha.
Let me say a few things:
9-11
Al-Queda
North Korea
Iran
Axis of evil

Thank You very much, I'm sure it's a nice aquarium. "

Ever notice the look on people's faces when you tell them that there are other OSes they can run on their PC. They give you a look like you are about to push them over a cliff. They hate Windoze, but truly fear switching out to another OS.

Take A Deep Breath, People...
There is life after and without Windows.

Fear...
What was the purpose of the first part of your post? (rhetorical question; I already know.)

Senseless.

See, doesn't matter that Macs and OSX are better - the world is attached to MSoft and Vista will he welcomed with open arms amid much unjustified commentary about how it's 'finally here' and everything is all better now.

Mac: tiny market share, now and forever.

Every time I think this is the most biased web site on the Internet, I read more bullshit like this that makes past posts look fair.

The only reason macs can run all 3 major operating systems is because the other two (linux and windows) are either open source or licensed to run on any x86 or x64 hardware you want. If apple would license osx, then any pc could run all three operating systems as well. claiming a victory for apple when apple is the one preventing its OS from being used by hardware manufacturers is unbelievably shortsighted.

and regarding your point about apple being around forever, did you forget (or choose to omit) that it was microsoft's large investment that kept apple afloat in the 90s?

and before you call me a windows fanboy, i own an imac. so come up with another reponse before you flame me.

Nice take, Peterson. Now pull your head out of your ass and say it again. I couldn't understand your muffled sounds the first time.

Nikhil,

Microsoft's $150 million purchase of non-voting stock represented less than 4% of Apple's cash assets. Of its total market capitalization, the $150 million was a tiny drop in the bucket. It was a token gesture. A dog and pony show. Before the first Apple-Microsoft five-year agreement expired, Microsoft sold its Apple stock at a profit.

Get your facts straight before you post next time.

Not to suppor this drivel, but in the UK, Apple products carry quite a bit more premium than in the States....

However, the "overpriced eye-candy" comment is soooo 1999.

Yup, its Bullshit - period.

It sounds like that brother is a bit bitter about not having access to OSX...its really easy. Buy a Mac, end the anger and hostility. Problem solved.

Andrew Hamilton
Video Production Las Vegas
http://www.hiproductions.com

Danny is just another Microsoft Windows Butt Monkey Lemming Fan Dork™ who is so deeply immersed in Microsoft's CULT of Blind Ignorance™, he can't see the benefits of Macs or even Mac OS X.

What a total blind ignorant idiot.

Nikhil is another example of a Microsoft Windows Butt Monkey Lemming Fan Dork™ who is so deeply immersed in Microsoft's CULT of Blind Ignorance™, he can't see the benefits of Macs or even Mac OS X. And the just saying you own a Mac doesn't mean shit, dumbass.

Nikhil,
At the time, Microsoft needed Apple a lot more than Apple needed Microsoft. Microsoft was being sued by everybody on the planet for antitrust/anticompetitive practices. The only way MS could prove that they did not have a absolute monopoly was to say that Apple was "competition" for them. Don't forget, Microsoft gave a $150 million dollar infusion of cash AND made a commitment to provide Office for the following 5 years. Sounds a lot like Microsoft paying off Apple more than anything.

Unfortunately, in many business Windows is a necessity because a simple accounting program as Quickbooks does not come in an Enterprise version for Mac OSX.
We would switch to Mac OSX if we could run the Enterprise version of Quickbooks on Macs

Bo

This guy is just trying to hold on to his job at the expence of his company or client! the folks in it need to grow up and see the wave that drawing down on them - it called MAC/OS X [10.5)! Either get with it or look out your repatation is about to go on the line! And wait till the boss founds out that for less than a new high-end dell PC he couls have a Mac with choose of three (3) operating systems!

It it's time to wake up and learn and maybe your have a job in 6 months!

Yeah, at the expence of his repatation.

blah blah blah,..... yawn, cough, snore..............................

BO, you're a moron and I don't believe you. If you were not such a spineless weasel dick you'd get some serious accounting software. Enterprise Quickbooks? p'leee's. Obviously, I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing crack. Thank god some real Apple news is coming tomorrow. Anything would be better than this drivel that's been keeping the boards from blackingout.

What utter bollocks.
He already admits that you need to buy a new hardware anyway because of Vista's requirement, so why not consider something that actually works? AND, if necessary, can also run windows. For Pete's sake, you can even now run Crossover For Mac, and run your Office 97 WITHOUT paying for the WindowsXP/Vista OS, if you're really that tight on budget!!!

MW: Poor. How appropriate!

is that the dude that once founded gentoo? drobbins?
:|

Let's face it, if you work for a large firm with an IT department chances are pretty good that you won't see Vista for years after it's release as the IT guys need time to evaluate how it works with all the proprietary company software. The company I work for just upgraded everyone last year to XP after years of testing. There is no chance they will turn around and do it again anytime soon. They'll simply reimage the drives to use XP and pass out the machines.

The one's that are hosed are the small businesses that may have no choice in purchasing a new PC.

'dead' as in this is already a dead horse, let's kick it some more.

It makes me laugh to think how hypocritical people are about the things they want and own. They'll have no problem spending tons of cash on clothes, or cars, comic books, game consoles and any other thingee they want, but for so many, computers are supposed to be cheap.

One of the most revolutionary, mind-expanding technologies to ever grace humankind is $299 with a coupon. Ugh. Like Steve has said repeatedly, "They have no taste." It obviously doesn't just apply to M$, but their whole sandbox. Litter box. Ok, crap hole. There's no need to be pretentious.

Poo, please let me know why I am a moron and why you don't belive me!
I do know that there is other accounting software available, but we use Quickbooks Enterprise and it doesn't run on a Mac. Everybody in the company is satisfied with Quickbooks and the IT manager doesn't see the point in switching to Macs, because it would mean that we also had to switch accounting system!
I wish it was different.

Honestly, a few years ago the monopoly agrument had some truth to it; the choice was between Microsoft's horizontal monopoly or Apple's vertical monopoly.
Through Boot Camp etal, the playing field has shifted so that Apple can become a participant in Microsoft's horizontal monopoly.

Honestly, I don't understand why the public would not just purchase a Mac and use it as a PC 95% of the time, switching over to OSX only to use the iSuite. $ for $ Apple's are competitive with anything Dell puts out and Apple has higher quality.

Some companies are still running Windows Y2K Pro!!

Danny boy probably feels a little (defuct) himself. (Check the IBM note in the MDN take).

Apple will license OSX in the future. It will be a sad day, heralding Apple's demise as a hardware company, an emergence as a software provider. Apple is already a hardware designer, not a hardware producer. Margins on hardware will continue to decline as Apple tries to be competitive on the basis of price. There will come a point where Apple will be able to make more on each OS license than the hardware; I think we are just about there. . .

This will come as Jobs ages and retires. It will be a sad day, but some harware provider, or maybe a division / split off of Apple will continue to produce slick hardwarefor those who demand it.

On the bright side, once folks can buy a Dull or Sony with OSX, they will flock to it in droves- first the home user, then business. M$oft will continue in it's death spiral over a period of 20 years or so, a lot like ATT- fading away. And unfortunately, although Apple probably has another 5 to 10 years of upswing in hardware. . . it to will decline-.

Oh boy look at the reaction we get from MDN!!!!

The FACT remains, Apple is a hardware and OS lock. M$ is just a OS lock.

Apple does NOT seperate it's OS from hardware. What Apple gives you take, right up the ass sometimes. (Mighty Mouse, Stainbooks, Frybooks, Whinebooks??)

Apple will begin to sell considerably less hardware than before because the processor advantage is gone. No more "Big Mac" supercomputers. Apple just shafted it's entire PPC user base, PCI-X users can't even get video cards upgrades because Apple suddenly switched to PCIe.

Apple does NOT provide alterations of it's OS to run zillions of other purpose devices.

For instance the self checkout machine at my local supermarket runs WindowsPOS. (POS = point of sale, and it is a Piece of Shit too)

WHERE IS APPLE'S POS? Where is their software to run CAD/CAM?

Apple is and only a CONSUMER PRODUCTS COMPANY. Well MDM the rest of the world needs to have a OS seperate from hardware and unfortunatly Microsoft provides.

YOU CAN BEST YOURSELF TO DEATH MDN WITH YOUR RETHORIC

But the fact remains, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are buddies. Steve stays the hell out of Bills buisness and Bill doesn't squash Apple into applesauce.

Hell Apple even sells OfficeMac!!!

Apple is using Intel chips now, has moved all of it's hardware to be almost identical to PC's in nature, even released "Boot Camp" to get the Mac user base to finally accept it's Windows destiny.

Apple is skitzo with their hardware to the point that it's not worth making devices for them if the model volume isn't high enough to justify the investment. This just fscks Apple buyers in the ass.

I don't think Apple will go only software. What they will do is continue to push consumer electronics and personal tech into new directions. It will get pretty fantastic in a fairly short time. Sci Fi, here we come!

Dude, you need an enema. Constipation can kill!

unless you fancy buying its overpriced eye candy and getting locked in to a single hardware vendor

Said by the same folks who happily lock themselves into Dell?

I agree with MDN's take on "overpriced eye candy": ignorant bullshit.

IMO you'd have to be falling down dumb and/or supremely anal to NOT seriously consider Mac at this point.

MDN does Apple and itself a dis-service with it's senseless rethoric and only reinforces the Windows monopoly.

Let's face it, until Trusted Computing is in full force, Apple can't sell their software seperatly from hardware.

If Apple fscks users up the wazoo, it may just bring some joy to all those Vista-mates; when Vista can't get it up, they'll need some company.

Violent IT guy-- call me.

OS X Server sucks too, Linux is much better. Windows Server is worst.

The FACT remains, Apple is a hardware and OS lock. M$ is just a OS lock.

Really?

Like they say, wait until Vista ships. With the forthcoming driver issues, the only way you'll get a working Vista is to buy it OEM pre-installed. Sounds like a hardware and OS lock to me, with a shithole OS. At least Apple is worth being locked into.

Apple does NOT seperate it's OS from hardware.

Which is why things "just work".

WHERE IS APPLE'S POS?

Have you been to an Apple Store? Whaddya suppose runs on the iMacs at the checkout? Granted Apple doesn't sell their point-of-sale solution, but they certainly have one.

Where is their software to run CAD/CAM?

You got me there. But then where is MS's CAD/CAM for Windows?

But the fact remains, Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are buddies. Steve stays the hell out of Bills buisness and Bill doesn't squash Apple into applesauce.

Bill Gates is an irrelevant has-been. Ballmer runs MS now (heh, it shows), and he doesn't have a clue either. Neither could crush Apple today if they wanted.

"I do know that there is other accounting software available, but we use Quickbooks Enterprise and it doesn't run on a Mac. Everybody in the company is satisfied with Quickbooks and the IT manager doesn't see the point in switching to Macs, because it would mean that we also had to switch accounting system!"

This is a fair statement. But then you have to ask yourself the obvious question, "How much is sticking with Windows to run QuickBooks Enterprise costing you?"

I don't know the size of your company, obviously. But since you're using QuickBooks Enterprise, I'd imagine it's decent sized. How many Windows PCs does your company have? I assume that not everyone is using QuickBooks Enterprise. What other software are other people using that is PC only?

The "Let's switch the whole company" thing is like beating your head against a brick wall. It won't happen. Generally speaking, it can't happen. There's PC-only software that some places need to run. The better approach is to try to convert departments piece-meal. Does the sales department need PCs? How about marketing? Facilities? Shipping?

When you approach it that way, you can generally find enough savings to turn heads.

To take on another poster...

"WHERE IS APPLE'S POS? Where is their software to run CAD/CAM?"

MacPOSX, Octopus, and PayGo SP.

My suggestion is before you start wondering, "Where is the software to do...?", you wander over to Apple's Macintosh Products Guide and have a look-see.

The primary problem is getting locked in to one vendor for hardware. If Apple licensed the OS, the IT world would be more likely to consider OS X. Apple could also expan market share much faster.

MacPOSX, Octopus, and PayGo SP.

But what's the use if Apple hardware isn't open for alteration?

One has to accept the limited hardware Apple offers.

For example at the Apple Stores a Mac is hooked up to a change drawer and a credit card authorizer. What about combining devices and adding a small monitor for customers to view their purchase total?

Oh that's right, Apple OS is married to their hardware, so someone can't make a nice all in one Point of Sale device.

Well I guess it's back to Dell, they do provide such a device and Microsoft does provide the software.

It makes me laugh to think how hypocritical people are about the things they want and own.

People? How about corporations?!

They "outsource" (i.e. send to India) everything but the boardroom to save money, yet cling dearly to the Microsoft ball-and-chain. Incredible.

Hmm maybe we've been approaching this wrong way. If corporate boards got the message they could increase productivity, thus company profits, thus the board members' personal bonuses, all by using Mac, we'd be amazed how fast enterprise would go Apple.

A little greed goes a long way...

My email to this Limey was, "Dear Sir. You, of course, are joking or smoking."

To answer your rhetorical question, etc, etc, etc.

I am a Limey also.

I'm sensing some friction here. I don't know, is it just me? I guess todays date makes a lot of this seem petty.

Oh, and "Death to Microsoft!"

The Department of Homeland Insecurity has standardized on Windows PCs and servers. Doesn't that make you feel really confident in our government and those running it? Maybe that's why FEMA (part of DHS) was so screwed up last year after Katrina.

overpriced eye candy?!?!

just what the hell does he think Vista is?! Windows Service Pack 3 with a ooey, gooey GUI!! a Mac OS X wannabe!!

...getting locked in to a single hardware vendor

what the fluck does that mean? ohhh, maybe he means that corporations would be better served if they had a bunch of Dells, a few HP's, a smattering of Gateways, a sprinkling of Acers, an IBM or two and the occasional Compac lying around? some of which are still running Windows ME or earlier because they're too outmoded to run anything else with those same computers being the ones that are most likely to be the cause of the whole system becoming corrupted due to a breach in the oldest, weakest link? and he's trying to convince us that the aformentioned situation is better than using a newer, more virus resistant system that can run Mac OS X and Windows and Linux and Unix??

...firms will probably have to invest in new PCs if they want to get the most out of Vista. In fact, most corporate desktops now in use will hardly be adequate to run Vista

hmm. so... it's perfectly fine to be locked into the single OS system that is most likely to be brought down by the "Malware of the Week". uh-huh... suuuuure! crimminy!! at the very least if you start using Linux you wont have to upgrade all you're outmoded PC's and have waaaaaay higher resistance to malware and better security!

oh, i give up. this guy is a hopeless turd.

True he's talking out of his arse