“The calls to dump Internet Explorer may be getting louder, but they are falling largely on deaf ears among enterprise users,’ Matt Hicks reports for eWEEK. “IT managers and users say that while the rash of security flaws associated with IE has drawn new attention to its vulnerabilities and has led some individuals to switch browsers, enterprises are reluctant to change browsers because of their reliance on IE-specific intranet applications and Web sites.”
“Following a series of critical security flaws tied to IE, the U.S. Computer Emergency Readiness Team last week suggested the use of an alternative browser as one way to avoid potential problems. Its recommendation has drawn widespread attention to rival browsers from the open-source Mozilla Foundation, Opera Software ASA and Apple Computer Inc.,” Hicks reports.
Full article here.
MacDailyNews Take: The IT world is currently dominated by sheeple.
Their lo$$.
the calls to dump IE should probably be announced again and again for the good of all the users…
and users should also be encouraged to websites that work exclusively with IE to fix their sites to accomodate other browsers….
Lemmings!
Taking it a step further.. I would like my site to deny access to those browsers claiming as IE.
” width=”19″ height=”19″ alt=”smile” style=”border:0;” /> so that it doesn’t do any bad stuff at my end.
Well, I got at least one person at work to switch to Firefox this week.
There is another one here that tries to throw bad Apple news in my face, but he is never successful.
He was exicted when he saw that my background said “Introducing Longhorn”
He was less than excited when he got a better look and realized it was just Apple messing with his “secure” little Windows world.
You have to remember how technically challenged most PC users are.
Although switching to a new browser is no big deal for most Mac users, PC users are afraid of any changes to their narrow minded view of computer use.
The lazy approach to web development on the PC side has also lead in a large degree to this ridiculous reliance on IE in order to use many of these poorly designed, myopically tested web applications.
Bottom line:
I say let them continue to live in hell! Anyone that stupid and ignorant deserves the grief.
I talked to the IT director of my local bank last week. I followed up with an email to him about the CERT warning. During our conversation, and totally unsolicited on my part, I was surprised to find out that he has been trying to get Mac compliance (in specific) for sometime now. Now armed with this latest CERT warning (he didn’t know about it) he feels pretty strongly that strict reliance and compliance on/with MS will no longer be tolerated, nor accepted. He needs to justify the switching of services to one that does support alternate browsers and presumptively Macs too.
Slowly, people are awakening from their long MS induced slumbers.
zac
moo.
We’ve had a lot of trouble getting web pages written in .Net to render the same in Safari as they do in IE for Windoze, which is one of the reasons that IT is reluctant to switch browsers. I know that the answer is to take out the Windoze-specific formatting and hooks, but that’s easier said than done because people who develop in .Net aren’t aware of the differences or how to fix them. I wish someone would publish a side-by-side comparison of .Net code and the Safari- and other browser-compliant code that would produce the same functionality.
The world has always been dominated by sheeple. This is just another example of why monopolies/monocultures are BAD. Everyone standardised on IE, MS stopped developing the product because they didn’t have to, and now a lot of big companies are stuck with crap because it’s too expensive to switch.
Browser specific web development is simply moronic and lazy. I can design a site in golive (or even imageready for that matter) that works perfectly all around and then we have a programmer who does more extensive websites who cant get a simple gif animation to work on the Mac browsers! what the hell? I thought the information super-highway was for anyone? May they should close off I-90 to anyone without Bridgestone Tires!
Well, that’s the price an enterprise pays for being so slavish in adopting the products of a single company in the name of ‘integration’, which is normally just a front for some money-saving special deal under Microsoft Select or somesuch.
I’m already telling my clients that I intend to wipe all Windows XP machines where the user has administrative rights (where adware becomes a real problem) when SP2 comes out and re-install from scratch – and they should expect a bill.
Not quite so cheap now, eh?
This cancer has 2 parts:
1. A browser that allows external control (ActiveX).
2. An OS that allows itself to be controlled by a browser.
Switching browsers only takes out half of the cancer.
Cure the whole disease; switch OSs and browsers!
Sheeple???????
isn’t that everyone here?
the Longhorn bulls will trample you once it is out of the gate of Pamplona/Seattle.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/07/07/spain.pamplona/index.html
start running. Mac zombies. start running.
Websites written in .NET? Anyway, I hardly ever have problems with page rendering in Safari, at least nothing really noticeable. Most of my family relies on my to keep their computers up to date and safe, and I manage to sneak Firefox on their computers and make it their default browser.
True Story
About 1 year ago, I had moved and went shopping for a new bank. My primary criteria were its location and internet access to my account. I found one that had fit both very well. But, within a few days, I tried to log into my account. It claimed I had to have IE. After several tweaks and adjustments using various other browsers, my best results were very poor and unreliable renderings of the page. I contacted their webmaster and he said that I had to have IE (he wasn’t too enthused about me using a Mac either).
I told him that I would be going down to the bank first thing in the morning to close my account “…because there was no way I’d keep my money at a bank that allowed for such a historically insecure system to display, access and manage my account! I was not comfortable with such a shoddy system, nor with a bank that didn’t think about ALL of its customers.”
Just as I had said, I closed the account the following day, and went to my second choice. It was a bit further away, but their online banking works like a dream with Safari.
After a month of checking balances and paying bills via the bank’s online system, I emailed their customer service department describing my satisfaction with their website using my iMac and Safari web browser. I also told them of my history with the previous bank.
Companies, webmasters, and IT managers need to know what they are doing right as well as what they are doing wrong. Spend a few minutes emailing the companies that work well with your Mac. Bring a little smile to someone else’s life.
I’m pleased to report that
a) I’ve got one new Mozilla recruit this week and
b) that I’ve written to Egg, the UK on-line bank to complain about IE-specific parts of their site. They have confirmed it is designed to use ActiveX so I’ve given them notice that I’m seeking another bank.
As far as intranets go, I could see this happening years ago. Its a fairly obvious rule of business not to become too dependant on any single supplier in case they go bust or their quality dips. IT managers who gave out directives to intranet deveopers such as “use only MSIE” have a lot to reflect upon.
Will corporations be liable once online web transaction processing starts getting jacked by pro hackers? What about companies that allow employees to do online banking on breaks and lunch hour. They initially loved online banking as employee attendance rose quite dramatically. Now they know IE is fucked and has been foreve but they are too lazy to do anything about it. Hmmmm. Just wondering if there are any legal types out there who might be able to answer that…
-j
I called my bank and managed to get into contact with their web/systems security person when this vunerability first came out.
I told them the Department of Homeland Security just warned everyone to immediatly dump IE and that they needed to stop accepting connections from IE browsers and warn people in their online banking. (showed the site etc)
He gave me a bunch of shit how glorious and safe Microsoft was and wouldn’t dare, so I called the bank president and threatened to pull my substancial funds from their bank and make a big press ruckuss if they didn’t.
They turned off their online banking and placed a warning on the site.
It’s ridiculas they have become so immune to something as serious as this.
Even though enterprise may be reluctant to switch now, the idea is in their head and considering options.
The screaming is getting louder!
Ron said, “…the Longhorn bulls will trample you once it is out of the gate of Pamplona/Seattle.”
One has to pay careful attention to where the gate is located. Once a herd of bulls get going, they won’t pay attention if the gate is located at the edge of a precipice – charge out, and over the cliff they all go!
If Longhorn code is rewritten as much as is thought, I would advise caution. With several million lines of untried code, you are asking for potential disaster. Oh yes, there will be the infamous “beta release”, but only the ignorant would truely believe that any significant number of problems will be cleared up. Basing my judgement on the many releases of software and subsequent patches from Microsoft, I’m not confident in their ability.
Even when OSX was first released, the Free BSD kernel which drives it, was quite mature. Yes, there has been several tweeks to improve speed and remove hiccups, – and there are many more yet to come, but for the most part OSX has been a very solid and successful change for Apple. I see nothing to suggest that Longhorn will be a delight for those who take the plunge (pun intended)!
Hey folks, if you’ve got a good bank, publicize them! I use SunTrust and their online banking works like a dream with Safari.
I’m happy to report that I’ve switched 50+ users at work to Mozilla Firefox and I’ve even convinced 10+ users to switch to Mozilla on their home computers, and 3 users have commited to buying a Mac instead of a PC for their next home computer. I live next to Billy G, but yet, I have no trouble convincing people to “Think Different”. It’s not hard when even the people that work at Microsoft are scared. I talk to them on a regular basis. Macs are a worry, but Linux and the Open Source movement are REALLY freaking them out.
Spread the word, open source = good, competition = good, Microsoft = BAD.
“I know that the answer is to take out the Windoze-specific formatting and hooks, but that’s easier said than done because people who develop in .Net aren’t aware of the differences or how to fix them.” – Mike Young
That is the root of the problem, isn’t it? People insisting on using Microsoft-specific development when the alternative exists simply because they are too lazy or too ignorant to do so even knowing that Microsoft solutions have a history of security problems. The first step is always the argument about saving costs going with Microsoft solution; however, when a serious problem surface, either you have to re-do all development for another platform or you have to rely on patches after patches from Microsoft. Either way, you are spending IT dollars, which negates the low cost to begin with.
It’s a surprise that IT people are such hard-headed that they’d repeat this mistake over and over (I’d love to use the word stupid, but some of them are quite intelligent otherwise). Probably the best message for IT type is: Start with platform independent development, even if you don’t officially support other platforms. Always have a back-up scenario for the worst case. Otherwise, it’d be more expensive in the long run.
Hey Ron, by the time the Longhorn Bull gets out of the gate, it’ll never catch me. I’ve got a good 3 year head start on it, minimum.
I do find it funny that MS’s next OS is being named after a Bull!
” After a month of checking balances and paying bills via the bank’s online system, I emailed their customer service department describing my satisfaction with their website using my iMac and Safari web browser. I also told them of my history with the previous bank.” – Aryugaetu
Bravo. I think it’s important to let people know why you give them your business and the reason why you don’t choose their competitor. By letting them know and complementing them, you give them a reason NOT to limit their support for alternatives or else they suffer the same fate as their competitors. It’s not enough to just switch.
Hear, hear! (or is it “Here, here!”)
Either way, I totally agree with ya both, Ary & Nobody – and it shouldn’t be with just the bank – what about credit cards that you pay online, magazine & newspaper subscriptions, gas cards, utilities (electricity, gas, cable TV, etc.). Let ’em ALL know that you appreciate their compatability, or if able (may not have a choice with some utils), will be seeking alternatives otherwise.
By letting them know and complementing them, you give them a reason NOT to limit their support for alternatives or else they suffer the same fate as their competitors. It’s not enough to just switch.
Agreed. If you offer a company compliments about their sevices when your trying to suggest BENEFICIAL changes to them they are more likely to listen to you instead of tuning you out as just another annoying customer.
It is easier to get people to change if you compliment them about something first than if you just tell them they are stupid and wrong.
two words: web standards.
IE-specific intranets and stuff. idiots.
The points about company intranet sites only working on IE is a very valid one. Although we have a standard Windows 2000 based platform at work we are still allowed Macs (thank God or I’d never get any work done!) but very few intranet sites will work with the mac. This can be down to the fact that a site requires the W2000 authentication stored on a person’s profile, but generally it is simply because the sites were slavishly designed with only IE in mind. The really stupid thing is that these sites don’t do anything spectacular and could easily be written for safari, mozilla etc, they just weren’t because the developers were too lazy/inept. So now we’re stuck with loads of web apps that will ONLY work with IE, so changing over to anything else just isn’t feasible, even given the problems IE has.
Now shouldn’t someone’s job be on the line for letting this situation arise? Yeah right, like hell it is…
RE: Jimbo von Winskinheimer
“I do find it funny that MS’s next OS is being named after a Bull!”
Its not named after a bull, but a Bar in the Whistler Ski Resort.
http://www.longhornsaloon.ca/home.htm
Ron! You’re back! We missed you amigo! I see you’ve got time to post now that school is out for the summer. So, did you pass your dodgeball finals? And remember to color inside the lines?
How singularly appropriate that Windows kinda-maybe forthcoming OS is code-named “Longhorn”. Microsoft’s PR and Windows fanboys keep spewing stuff not dissimilar to the digestive by-products of male cattle.
I am the only one in the IT department that suggested using an alternative browser. But guess what they told me? They told me it was against policy. So, I guess I am the only one using Netscape on my PC in the office against Government policy. I say, let them suffer.
Even Paul Thurrott says “friends don’t let friends use IE.”
There’s a link to download Firefox right at the top of his website.
This is the natural result of MS standard strategy of “embrace & extend.” Once you’re locked in – they own you…
well, NoMac4You, the bar is named after a bull. Whats the diff?
Personally, I think any site that forces you to use IE should be held liable for anything that happens as a result of using said browser.
Longhorn aren’t bulls, they’re cattle that are slaughtered for meat. Much more docile …
And Tiger will make mince meat of it!
WRONG!!! I/T is not loathe to abandon MS crap. They DEPEND ON IT in order to have secure jobs…
Just loaded Mozilla Firefox on my PC. Wow, what a difference. When I’m not in front of my Mac, I can now use something that works. Go get Firefox if you are forced to work on a PC!
allyourbasearebelongtous
I also put Firefox onto my Dull @ work – ya gotta love that tabbed browsing! But I where’s Putznik to enlighten us about what people in the Real IT World are making of all this? We await with bated breath. The floor is yours, Putzboy!
When Foghorn Leghorn is released in 2006/7 (whenever) I’m guessing the G6 will probably be out running OS 10.6 or 7. Probably called Couger or Lion. which would you rather be a the watering hole ? The Lion or the Bull.
As for Firefox on my mac, yeah well i tried it and didn’t like it much. Mind you I didn’t check it out for very long. I like Netscape even though it’s old and dated. One day I’ll have to try something else i guess. Nice to know there are heaps of options out there other than Explorer. Which I don’t think is even supported on the mac anymore. Is that right ? Havn’t used it for ages.
Building a Better Mozilla
Some very useful add ons for Mozilla from the link below.
Cheers All
http://www.wired.com/news/infostructure/0,1377,64085,00.html?tw=wn_1techhead
What I’d like to know if why folders on my wife’s Windows XP system often stop refreshing auto-refreshing after files have been downloaded to them with Firefox. Other folders seem to get futzed up auto-refreshing after that, too. For example, deleted files still display the icons; manually refreshing makes them go away. It’s a frustrating side effect of using Firefox.
Other folders seem to get futzed up auto-refreshing after that, too. For example, deleted files still display the icons; manually refreshing makes them go away
I have that issue too, but I also find that I dont have any malware stuff installing on my system as a result of using Mozilla compared to what i used to pick up with IE
All these reluctant IT departments need now is a hacker group or virus writer to point the finger at. Of course nobody would blame Microsoft for the flawed Internet Explorer and IT departments that embraced Microsoft “solutions” would certainly not blame themselves for sticking to IE despite the security warnings. Hackers and virus writers would be the perfect scape-goats for all this incompetence in both Microsoft and the IT industry it has inspired.
Actually what we have here is some sort of premature ejaculation or leakage. M$ was investigating methods of degrading its existing OS’es to drive users to update to longbone. Unfortunately, the manual leaked out into the wild and every Tom, Dick and Harry has the keys to Windows numerous holes. As Ballmer is cutting employee benefits because the co.’s cash horde “belongs to h…” er, shareholders, we can expect disgruntled employees to increasingly sabotage M$ in the future.
Thanks, winmacguy. Guess I’m glad to know it’s not a unique problem. I’m not too concerned about it since my wife will inherit my eMac after I upgrade to the iMac replacement in a few months. Then we’ll be Windows-free, at last!
I’ve had quite a few probs w/web dev. cross browser issues.
As a Mac user… Even I switched to firefox.
[url=http://www.phenomi.net]http://www.phenomi.net[/url]
Those IT managers are what I like to call ‘lazy.’
JadisOne
A lot of IT managers are what I like to call ‘promoted beyond their skills.’ Anyone who is a manager in the business can move into the IT department. So you end up with people in IT purchasing positions who don’t really understand the technology their underlings are supporting. As such, like an American tourist going to Europe and still eating in McDonalds, they go with names they recognise. Dell, Microsoft, Hewlett Packard. Managers of this type couldn’t even tell you what Solaris, Red Hat, PeopleSoft, Lotus Notes or OSX are, let alone what they can do for their companies. They view the Mac as “yesterday’s technology”, because someone they met once at a conference told them it is. Faced with any problem, that glazed look comes over their face, and their first thought is “Ring Microsoft, they’ll know what to do”.
The real techies, and by that I mean those who would always have worked in IT even if the boom hadn’t occurred, are all on OSX and Linux. Only the paper MCSEs, who hide behind their credentials in case their lack of knowledge ever shows, are scared of MS losing their grip.
But the cracks are showing.
Good point Dave H. The only IT people I know who refuse to try OS X are the ones who depend on m$ for their income. Even some of them eventually but a non-m$ machine for their own use simply because they’re tired of maintaining their own computer without getting paid for it.
Agreed Dave H.