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$20,000 difference?

They must be mad.

If not then I'd sue them for incompetence.

This is, unfortunately, typical of the mindset everywhere. It's like buying a mediocre vehicle and not considering the cost of 15 MPG fuel (if you care about cost).

This is why Dell will stay ahead in market share, but won't make as much money as Apple. This is why Windoze is so dominant.

Co's like Dell have no way of making money without being mass sellers. Stupid stupid stupid. The whole thing.

These school board members have no clue. They just see numbers on the paper.

What did you expect from a bunch of hayseeds and bumpkins?

Clearly one of the factors they did NOT take into consideration is whether Dell will be in business by the end of their lease.

Please please Lord,,,,, I am trying hard NOT to make any Kansas jokes......help me....

Ignorance is bliss......

Kansas, apparently you're not in Kansas anymore.

Kansas is the state that keeps insisting that "Intelligent Design" be taught in classrooms. Nuff said.

Unbelievable. Isn't this the same state that forces its teachers to teach creationism as a fact?

I drove through Kansas once.

Best part was leaving.

Who would willingly live there?

How much can you sell the laptops for at the end of the lease -- add that money into the mix.

Is Kansas in a declining phase, or what? Who would choose dells over macs with iLife when you're an educator? That TCO must've looked outrageously good for the dells.

Penny wise and pound foolish.

Why do I think that iLife is not a consideration for an educational computer? And who cares about multi-OS capability (unless the School Board required it in their RFP).

The antivirus cost is a valid concern, as are additional software costs (though those may not apply, depending on what kind of licensing deal the Board has in place).

The higher average support costs may or may not be a concern, depending on whether or not the schools already have the people in place to support a Windows platform, or on other considerations. I work in a mainly Mac shop (roughly 90% Mac at the end user's desk) and certainly have not seen the PC users cost us more in support than the Macs have.

IDIOTS!

And their state motto is "Ad astra per aspera" (to the stars through difficulties).

Indeed.

wow!

Its amazing how short sighted some people can be..

No doubt...IT support for he new Dells will quickly absorb the $200,000 difference....and over 4 years...they will pay a lot more than that!

Not too mention software cost for switching.

Unbelievable.

Crap will always cost less than quality(in the short run)

shiva,

EVERY major study not sponsored by Microsoft says that Macs cost substantially less to support and last substantially longer than Windows PCs.

Ah well. You win some, you lose some. I'm sure Apple will pick up a school district off Dell somewhere else.

Pity for the kids and teachers though.

I am a longtime apple user, and while I support the continued use of apples everywhere, I have to take exception to the attempted analogy of a Ford Escort and a Mercedes to a PC and a Mac. Mac users have long compared their computers to BMW's - Small market Share, High Quality Experience. The example you reference seems to imply that the Ford escort gets 1/4 the MPG, costs 5 times more to operate and twice as much to insure. In reality it is the Mercedes that requires the greater outlay for gas, maintenance and insurance. I realize this was only cited to make a point but lets be a little more realistic. If the real numbers were so obviously skewed we would not even need to have this discussion, everyone would already be using apple.

Handing out a bunch of Doze machines to schools full of script kiddies with nothing to do after the corn is harvested?

Well, it might be OK. None of them can read, anyway.

HA HA - just wait till the bills for the IT staff for running 'Doze come flooding in

That will teach them to shop only based on price.

It's TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP that needs to be figured.

Remind me not to raise my kids in Kandyass.

So how do I go about buying one of the "worthless" Macs?

Headline: Kansas school district goes to Dell (hell)

200000 divided by 4 years and 365 days = $136.99/day

divide that by the 1800 served and that's 7.6¢/day savings per person

Poor kids.

I've been teaching at a district in Kansas for 15 years and we have never had a PC except in the Tech labs. I was disappointed with Hayes decision too but my district is not changing. I will say that the laptops that Apple provides for schools have been the only Macs I ever disliked. But since I have disliked every PC I ever had, it doesn’t mean much. The lab Macs and teacher Macs are great. I also teach science, and on the matter of I.D., I have no comment. I love it in Kansas. You never know what the weather or politics will bring.

A Honda would be a better analogy for Mac's

The Board will learn they made the wrong decision. It will just take time. Wait til the students and teachers that were using OS X now have to move to Vista. Ouch! They will be sorry. Oh, will they be sorry.

I have had my 800Mhz G4 iMac for 5 years now.

While I do want a NEW iMAC, the FACT IS, I don't NEED a new iMAC.

I would've gone thru 3 PCs by now, ESPECIALLY with this VISTA crap, so what IS my cost ?

I have only upgraded my OS as the new ones came out, otherwise, no real major add-on costs, and best of all Z E R O TECH SUPPORT COSTS!

STUPID STUPID STUPID School system -
p.s. I am going to my 30th HS Reunion in a month - they issue every Freshman a new mac laptop - go figure (Catholic HS)

Mrejag - Dallas, TX

This will bite them in the ass, big time. It always plays out the same way.

The part time tech support, usually from knowledgeable staff (teachers) on site, will change to dedicated IT types who won't always be there. A single bad download will incapacitate the network. PCs will have to locked down to the point of being inoperable. Which will be defeated by the kids anyway. Never mind the repair costs for systems that are proven to not be a robust as Macs.

Oh well. Just another crime in the litany of crimes committed in the name of the Lowest Bidder System.

Teaching creationism is right on.

Their decision may be short-sighted, but their beliefs are right on in my book.

Signed,

A God fearing Mac User

Glad were not in Kansas anymore.
I thought the school districts were concerned about the weight of the kids backpacks. Those poor little spines carrying around those big cluncky DELLS around. What a joke! This country is so back asswards

Shiva, so going by your claim, 10 PCs cost nearly the same to maintain as 90 macs. That sounds about right.

Could it be that Dell is practically giving computers away in an effort save its ass?

Translation: Kansas school district IT supervisor needs excuse to up his/her budget to become bigger player in school district.

Just my $0.02

Just as MDN point out the Hays School Board will have a shock at the end of each academic year when the bill for all those apps mentioned by MDN come in.

The parents should also demand a 24/7 365 day support line be provided and if lines are too busy this be an acceptable reason for late work.

I think the support cost would be Dell's Presto service which is charged each and everytime an issue arises. Who pays for that?

I am not sure if the same Presto service is in the USA as I could not find it on the US website other than a forum user interested in Presto. Dell could introduce this to the USA for all customers overnight regardless of contractual agreements, Dell has the right to alter agreements without notice.

The thing is, which comes to mind, will there be another unexpected or unplanned over budget expenditure within a school district? More parents demand an explanation from their school board because cuts have had to be made and as to why junior won't be able to enjoy a certain after class activity?

MW 'process' as in yet another process where a numbskull decision ends up with egg on the face.

The board had no choice. Like most governments that put out competitive bids they're required by law to take the lowest one. If they don't they get sued. Remember what happened when the school district near Atlanta chose Apple over Dell even though the Apple bid cost more? Very ugly. So yes, Hays, KS made a bad choice from our perspective. But they also made the only choice they could that kept them from facing lawsuits and recall votes.

Oakies

First, I'd like to ask the users of this forum to show a little more civility and lay off the Kansas jokes. Do you think it makes you sound intelligent by denigrating others?

Second, in defense of the school board, $200,000 is a lot of money to anyone and school boards have to get their money throuh taxes and referendums and need to justify every penney they spend.

Third, I'd love to hear more comments directed to the difference between the short-term and long-term consequences of this decision. Many have alluded to it. Additional IT support? Anti-Virus costs. Things like that. Anyone have some hard numbers instead of self-serving opinions?

@Kansas,
Nice reply. Hang in there and feel free to let us know how it goes in say 3 months after they do the transition. It will make for interesting reading.

PS, are you using Vista??? Pray that you are not.

I have worked with schools before and found them filled with nice people (mostly) and that most of the administrators have NO CLUE about running.... er... much of anything.

Best of luck with your new systems.

en

I have to admit that I've never really been to this website before - But you guys are getting all hot and bothered because a school board in Kansas decided to buy Dells instead of Apples?? Really?? Unless your children go to school in Hays Kansas... then who cares? How does that even register on your give-a-sh!t meter?

@ No Squirt

You are wrong. "Ad astra per aspera" is a latin phrase put out by the school board. Roughly translated it means, "from ass to asshole'.

By the time this lease expires most of the board members will probably be gone. Aren't those elected positions?

Darkness - The board had no choice. Like most governments that put out competitive bids they're required by law to take the lowest one

Then all government computers should be running linux and open office as they are free.

School administrators spending taxpayer money opt for the lower costing solution-you dorks jump all over them.
School administrators go with the higher costing solution-they get butchered by the press, taxpayers and government officials but they get kudos from you dorks.

I'd say it was a no brainer-much like most of you here.

PS> Give up on the TCO-you will never get the average taxpayer anywhere to understand it. People in groups are stupid.

I say let them suffer for the errors of their ways. Price alone should not be the sole factor in whether or not to consider any kind of technology (whether Apple, Dell, Hp or your mom and pop store).

There is a space between your ears called the brain. Use it sometimes.

In Kansas:
A hayseed / country bumpkin comes across a set of rail road tracks stretching across the fields of wheat and thinks "hmmm... someone designed, built and placed these tracks here. I wonder why?" A train comes by... 'wow, look at that! Now I know why the tracks were designed and created! For the train... what a great idea. I wonder who's idea that was? I'd sure like to get to know that person."

In California:
A hip urban evolved featherless biped comes across a set of rail road tracks cutting through the San Gabriel Mountains and thinks "hmmm... I wonder how these tracks got here? Hey... look at all this rock and stuff. The tracks and rocks are both hard... and look, there's some metal in that rock.... the tracks must have sprung up from all this rock and metal and all. That's pretty cool." A train comes by... 'wow, look at what else evolved! It's amazing how these tracks and that train could evolve to work together so nicely. .... almost like they were created for each other.... nah... couldn't be.... we all know that nothing exists that has not evolved by chance. Sure am glad I'm evolved!"

Again, if you use the decision by a school board to dog on Kansas as a whole, I don't want to be in your camp. You bigots give Apple users a bad name.

Also, "creationism" is a term invented by atheists to denigrate the Christian theology that in short teaches "God made". There are no known "creationists" except in the minds of Darwin-thumping Richard Dawkins types.

"Intelligent Design" is not a theological argument, in such as it says nothing about the nature of a creator, be the creator male, female, triune, multi-handed, or anything else. The term "irreducible complexity" is key, here; also, the basic concept that similarity in design reflects a designer; much like you can tell the works of Picasso by his signature. Don't forget about "stair-step evolution", either. ID does, however, require one of those "open minds" that they teach you to have in school, and not a lockjaw, slavering attachment to any particular scientific theory.

It is a struggle of good against evil Roger.

So after the initial slew of "Kansas, you ignorant slut", comments, a little decency and common sense have crept into this discussion.

A government entity spent less money to get dells than macs. Don't make fun of them. Justify you opinions.

Who cares. The morons will find out soon enough that the $200,000 they saved upfront will go right down the drain in additional support costs later.

i think the biggest mistake was extending the contract to 4 years. i don't know what the replacement policy is for broken/failed computers, but there almost has to be a limit on it; suppliers don't sign open-ended contracts that makes them liable for potentially an infinite number of replacements regardless of what happens to the computers. the dells will not last 4 years, probably most of them won't last 3 years. so i think there will be additional costs that the school board will have to face up to in the last year of the contract that they are unwilling to face right now. they are putting off a problem and hoping it will go away and maybe they will be retired or off the board by that time. also dell is desperate and is also only looking at the immediate future and hoping that magically something will happen to take care of the outyear problems. both sides have got their heads in the sand unfortunately, and the kids and teachers are caught in the middle.