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Jun 20, 08 - 09:04 am Comment from: ron

Pirate away. This rap crap is doomed for the toilet anyway.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:07 am Comment from: msuth

like i'd want to download kid rock's music even for free...

Kid who?

Jun 20, 08 - 09:10 am Comment from: MikeK

"So, you got rich solely from playing live and not from record sales, Bobbie? It's possible, we guess. But, it's also pretty hard to believe. In all probability, some of your riches came from music sales. Bad contract or not."
___

Absolutely wrong.

The majority of artists make the Lion's share of their money through touring.. Very little is made through record sales.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:10 am Comment from: Wandering joe

Who is he anyway? Never heard of him

Jun 20, 08 - 09:11 am Comment from: TowerTone

Maybe when he becomes Adult Rock he'll understand....

Jun 20, 08 - 09:11 am Comment from: Ampar

"But I think they should steal everything. You know how much money the oil companies have?"

By that logic (since he says he's rich), it's open season on his house and belongings. Take it all.
And if necessary, he's already provided your defense.

Phish. They made millions from touring. They couldn't sell a studio album to save their life. Just saying...

iTunes is a distribution channel for the music labels. It's a mighty big bed, and they're in it together.

I don't believe that iTMS is run at a near break-even basis, but assume for a moment that it's true. If true, then illegal downloading is not a lost profit opportunity for Apple. If the artist doesn't care, MDN shouldn't either.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:13 am Comment from: TowerTone

MikeK
I don't think they wold get near the draw if they didn't have a song on the chart, pushed by the record companies.

It's like having a commercial for your product on the radio.

Can you spell "IDIOT"! Steal from everyone! Jeeze! How about the small business man trying to run a service station. You are stealing from him as the oil company has already been paid for their gas. This guy is dumber than a rock!

Jun 20, 08 - 09:15 am Comment from: MikeK

TowerTone,

Trust me.. I just happen to have a wee bit experience in the music industry...

@ron
Why do people like you always change the topic from the greater issue into a specific preference? It's about pirating music....all music...not just Kid Rock's music. The whole "rap is crap" thing is just stupid. What if (insert any artist that YOU like here) said what Kid Rock said. Focus on the issue.

And as far as rap being doomed for the toilet, you sound exactly like those old dudes from the 50s saying "rock and roll has got to go...it'll never last" Looks like it lasted. Rap and hip-hop is just rock n' roll for today's kids...and, like rock, it's not going away anytime soon.

actually macdailynewstake if the record label is the one who put it on the site then the record label IS the one making all the money.. sure apples gives 70 or 80 or 90 percent whatever it is... but that goes to the record label, the artist still only see's the 2% or ... 4% if they signed a good deal. And that usually goes back to the record label because they are the one fronting all the money for the artist.


itunes is only good for independent musicians.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:20 am Comment from: TowerTone

MikeK

I'm not disagreeing, but there is a reason for the draw.

There is a return from the record contracts in real dollars because of the exposure of the name to mass marketing.

But MDN, isn't Kid Rock a good staunch Republican??

Jun 20, 08 - 09:21 am Comment from: MikeK

@......


Exactly right.. Indie artists get appx 60 cents per track from iTunes. Major label artists get pennies..

The money is in touring. Always has been except for a select few artists (and I mean few) who actually make money through record sales..

Jun 20, 08 - 09:24 am Comment from: Macromancer

I think everyone should be boycotting Kid's music. Because he's boycotting iTunes? No

Because his music sucks. Seriously wtf was that last single he had? Total garbage.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:25 am Comment from: MikeK

@tower tone

The days of artists getting a return from record companies are long gone. There are no more multi million dollar contracts being made anymore. Maybe Britney, Justin and Mariah, but even those deals aren't what they used to be..

Record sales generate money yes, but more than 95% goes to the label and other costs.. Touring is one area where the labels can't get their greedy hands on.. Unless, of course, the artist is desperate and signs a horrible contract (which also happens often.)

Anyway, the reason you see so many reunion tours and artist like the Rolling Stones still going around the world is because the money is insanely good. T-shirts, merchandising, it's a gold mine, NOT record sales.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:26 am Comment from: rdbvideo

For those who don't know who he was....
I think he was a character on "The Simpson's" once.
He must not have been too popular, they didn't make him a regular.
Just another forgettable cartoon character.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:28 am Comment from: ron

PeterJ.

I'll wager you can't whistle a rap-crap thing (sorry, I can't use the word- tune). 5 years from now even you will forget any of the words. Do you know any now? I can remember tunes from every generation since Mozart - but not this rap-crap.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:32 am Comment from: TowerTone

MIke K

you are missing my point completely.
The record contracts help indirectly. That's all.
Do I think the artist are treated fair? No.
Do I think record labels lose large amounts on some so called "artist"?
I hope.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:33 am Comment from: critic

"So, you got rich solely from playing live and not from record sales, Bobbie? It's possible, we guess. But, it's also pretty hard to believe. In all probability, some of your riches came from music sales. Bad contract or not."

This is fairly old news. He made the same statements in interviews I listened to at least 6-7 years ago. This came up specifically in an interview and asked about in the context of the fight between Metallica and Napster, before Napster was shut down.

He has always had a contempt for the record companies. I do think that he has a fairly typical record contract, and he sees little benefit. It is not just "rappers" either. I know that James Taylor tours every summer for a reason. He doesn't make s**t from record sales or royalties. He earns his money touring.

Judging by the whole Napster fight (and the long delay coming to iTunes), Metallica has a MUCH better deal on their record sales than most other artists.

As for his other comments, all I can say is that he isn't any smarter than any other entertainer that feels like they have the qualifications to make social commentary. I bet his father would have just loved it if everyone who wanted a car came to his dealership and stole one off the lot.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:36 am Comment from: MikeK

@tower tone

I understand your point.. You're saying that with a song in the charts, the artist will play bigger venues.. Yes, that's true..

But even without a current hit, many artists can do very well with just touring..

Jun 20, 08 - 09:40 am Comment from: Ampar

More wit and wisdom from the Kid:

"I'm a skilled craftsman in my trade.
I look in the mirror and look at other musicians and say: 'Am I as good as them, am I better?' And I always thought I was.
And I always surround myself with good people. My dad always told me: 'If you want to be a painter, don't hang out with a carpenter.'
So I surrounded myself with the best painters that I could and I've tried to learn from them.
I don't mind people stealing my music, that's fine. But I think they should steal everything.
You know how much money Tommy Hilfiger has? If you need a new laptop or a new iPod, you know how much money Steve Jobs and Apple have?
If you're going to steal music, steal everything. You know how much money the oil companies have? If you need some gas, just go fill your tank up and drive off, they're not going to miss it.

Do I steal things? No, I don't steal things. I'm rich."

- Robert James Ritchie aka Kid Rock

(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7461727.stm)

Jun 20, 08 - 09:40 am Comment from: shen

"This is fairly old news. He made the same statements in interviews I listened to at least 6-7 years ago"

this guy has been around 6-7 years and i only got around to listening to his 30 sec previews today?

....and does his stuff suck! wow. if he can make money from music, ANYONE should be able too.

'scuse me, i need to fire up garageband.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:42 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Kid Rock?
Who dat?

Jun 20, 08 - 09:43 am Comment from: shen

"In all probability, some of your riches came from music sales. Bad contract or not."
___

Absolutely wrong.

The majority of artists make the Lion's share of their money through touring.. Very little is made through record sales."

no offense, but "some of your riches" and "lions share vs very little" pretty much say the same thing. if you are going to tell someone they are "absolutely wrong" you really should disagree with them first......

I suppose it says something that iTunes has now become synonymous with music stores as a whole, but obviously in this light it makes them take the blame for something as a whole which they're not even at fault for.

I think it will take established artists, with live followings and existing riches to break away from the labels to force real change. Yes music labels or some middleman service has a role to play in developing and promoting new talent and that costs money, and not everyone succeeds, we all realise that. When they mainly develop cookie cutter crap and still take the vast majority of the money you can have little sympathy for them.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:45 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

MDN editors:

You know what would be useful? Set your feedback Takes in italics, or a different color entirely, to help differentiate between the article you quote and your thoughts.

So who's this guy? I've never even heard of him...LOL

Whatever, his statements verifies that in order to be a musician - and "get rich", you don't need to much brain power...

What a fool...

CR

Kid Rock, greasy hair is out, two chord songs with Sherryl Crow is out, cowboy hats covering up the greasy hair is out, and especially, fake every body part Pamela Anderson is out. Kid Rock, you had your moment...time to move on...start another career...you were lucky to have the first one.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:52 am Comment from: loganson

In the eighties a heavy metal rocker chick told me that rap would never last. I agreed at the time. Now you have rap and hip hop but where's the metal? Bring back the metal!!

Kid Rock. Quit blaming iTunes for your lack of appeal.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:53 am Comment from: MikeK

@Shen

A typical artist will get pennies (3 to 4 cents) per track on an album sold. So say an artists album goes platinum and sells a million copies.. On a ten song album that's about 30 to 40 cents per album

1,000,000 x 40 cents = $40,000

Now say an artist sells out a 10,000 seat venue. At an average ticket price of $50 per seat. The artist cut is generally around 60% of ticket sales.. Thats about $30 per seat..

10,000 x $30 = $30,000

That's for ONE show, in ONE city.. If they are on a tour doing shows every night, you can see how this really adds up.. Touring is where the money's at.. Of course, that does not include all the money made from t-shirt and other merchandise sales..

So let me get this straight. He PISSED because he's not making as much MONEY as he think he deserves, so he's advocating people STEALING his music. Um, yeah, nice logic, you greedy hypocrit.

iTunes may not be run at break even levels, but they're hardly making massive profit percentages - we would know more about it if they were.

There's very little point in pirating Kid Rock's stuff though - other than stealing the single of that Sweet Home Alabama knock off - so you can destroy them.

Jun 20, 08 - 09:57 am Comment from: MikeK

Correction..

One show will generate $300,000, Not $30,000

Jun 20, 08 - 09:58 am Comment from: Tired of Retards

MikeK,

What part of "regardless, that's not the point" don't you understand?

Jun 20, 08 - 09:59 am Comment from: Ampar

This could be the key to his twisted logic:

There's Good Rich (himself, immediate family and a few close friends).

Then, there's Evil Rich (the rest of the world).

So, thou shalt not steal . . . from Good Rich (not affiliated with the Goodrich Corporation).

Everything else is fair game.

Jun 20, 08 - 10:01 am Comment from: MikeK

@tired of retards,

They were trying to make a point, or they would not have bothered writing it.

Jun 20, 08 - 10:02 am Comment from: ElderNorm

@.......
"
itunes is only good for independent musicians." All musicians should be independent. In todays world, there is a need for services to get the music into digital format (recording, tracking, cleaning up, doing cover art) but the days of the "need" for music companies is mostly over.

Need physical cds, no problem. Order online, get shipped direct.

Just a thought.
en

Jun 20, 08 - 10:09 am Comment from: Bluefin

@Mike K

Most artists tour to sell records. Very few (And Kid Rock is no longer one of them) make big money on tours. Fairly quickly you drop off the radar screen and are playing crappy little houses and corporate gigs.

the 60-40% split is close enough. 40% goes to promoter/house. Out of the artists split... there are whole lotta pieces. Production being the lion's share. Lighting, Sound, Video and Power and probably close to 65% of the artists take. Then there's promo, food, marketing, transport, etc...

Unless you are a supergroup, you don't make much on touring. You can make some money, but big money... nope.

Top money makers for 07:
The Police @ $212 Million
Genesis @ $129 Mil.
Justin Timberlake's FutureSex LoveShow $126.8 million
Kenny Chesney ($71.2 million)
Rod Stewart ($70 million)
Cirque Du Soleil's Delirium ($59.4 million)
Roger Waters ($53.2 million)
Tim McGraw/Faith Hill ($52.3 million)
Christina Aguilera ($48.1 million)
Rascal Flatts ($41 million)

Jun 20, 08 - 10:10 am Comment from: jocknerd

Smart artists don't need labels or iTunes. Just ask Trent Reznor. He released his album on his website. He made $750,000 in the first weekend. No cut went to a record label or iTunes. He then proceeded to give away his next album for free. Why? He announced his upcoming tour. He knows he will make a shitload of money on his tour. The album is just promotional material.

He's one of the few who understands it.

Jun 20, 08 - 10:15 am Comment from: jocknerd

@G-Spank,

Did you read the article? Kid Rock isn't pissed. His label wanted him to publicly denounce file sharing. He said screw the label. They've been stealing from me. Why should I support them.

Some of you Apple FanBoys really look like idiots sometimes.

Jun 20, 08 - 10:16 am Comment from: Demon

So many of todays major label artists just don't understand how their industry works is frightening. The sad part is even their managers and legal advisors don't understand it. Here is the truth about the music industry today, and Kid Rock is the perfect example to use. Music labels want celebrities or people they can turn into celebrities with the minimal amount of investment. The Drug snorting, Alcoholic with a flare making easy press because of Drug, Alcohol, hooker, and minor gun violence is an prime news media target. Cheap easy news sells Music on the cheap with a small add budget. No need spend money promoting the music the label just needs to sit back and let the news media do the work. The music label does need to get him into some C, B, and eventually A list parties and night clubs in the beginning. The best way for the industry to create a celebrity is to have their artist associate, hangout, and party with the celebrities. Once the label turned Kid Rock (or must music artists that want to be seen with and/or be a celebrity) into a celebrity is cheap and easy to do with their celebrity making formula. Basically overnight and a few parties later and even a douche bag like Kid Rock (JayZ, <Insert name of almost any label artist here>) is a celebrity too.

Recording labels will tell you up front the music isn't important, it's the Celebrity ROI. They can take a monkey chattering, lay in so popular sounding music, spit out an album, and as long as the Monkey could be turned into a celebrity that album will sell and will get into the Billboard Hot 100 and will reach the top 10. Of course the money will need to generate some good TV News by being arrested for slapping around some hookers, a few DUI stops, assaulting another celebrity, trash talk another label's artist(s) while drunk or high and/or a major arrest. Celebrities get very minimal court slaps for virtual any offense. As a bonus if the press coverage is really good and it adds to the Celebrity's street cred the label is pickup part of the legal bill too.

Music Artists in times gone way by were great role models for kids. Today, there is but a very, very few Music label artists that I would want as role models for my kids. The sad fact is most parents don't look at who their kids role models are. What Music Label Celebrities do your kids look up to as role models? For me that question is relatively simple to answer these days, as my daughter really looks up to Katie Melua as her inspiration into becoming a musician, song writer and artist. My kids though have been exposed to indie music and indie artists all the lives they know how much hard work it is to be a truly great musical artist.

Support indie Music on iTunes and this helps support indie artists. Down with the label dreck and support only real musical artists. Stop supporting the music industry's made celebrities, don't buy-it, don't P2P BT for free even, and on no circumstances should buy a ticket to a live show.

Jun 20, 08 - 10:16 am Comment from: MikeK

@Bluefin,

Well, I beg to differ as I happen to be an Indie artist who was formerly with a major label.. I've seen both sides.. Sold a lot more records in the early days, but make much more money selling less records and being independent. The very reason I am home right now writing this and not at an office job is because I make my living off of touring.. Of course, my monthly iTunes checks aren't bad either..

Dumb kid... had one hit 10 years ago... still thinks he's a factor.

Trent understands his postion in the life cycle. He has a loyal following he under feeds. He puts out 5 disks worth of elevator music and his fan bois spew their income at his alter. He's not a genius - he's a lucky SOB who doesnt mind taking advantage of the weak minded.

I went to download festival at donnington park at the weekend, where Kid Rock was scheduled to play. Didn't turn up due to a mystery illness, so if he wants you to download music for free, and doesn't turn up to gigs, how will he get his money?