MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Has anyone else noticed MDN's notable absence on this subject. You know, I think it is ok if they want to stay neutral in this fight, meaning they will support Apple no matter what but are secretly hoping for an Apple "OK" here.

But why don't they just say that they are holding a neutral position until things settle down a bit.

May 05, 08 - 10:16 am Comment from: macoverdose_dot_com

Pystar isnt gonna get anywhere with this... other than pissing off a lot of customers when they cant upgrade OS X. I suspect that apple with come out with a new low end mac besides the mini.. aimed directly at the enterprise market. I would bet we see it in the next year or so... but I wouldnt put any money on apple releasing OS X into the wild.

I did not want to risk the "wrath of Apple" by purchasing a Psystar computer, but their story did inspire me to build my own Hackintosh. I'm very pleased with the results. Perhaps Psystar could offer the compatible hardware, and instructions to the purchaser to install OS X themselves (rather than offering the hardware with OS X pre-installed). This would get around the legal questions, and still allow them to offer a viable product, right?

File an Antitrust suit agaist a company that builds the entire product? I don't even know if the Morons in the east texas courts would buy that. Get rid of these ass clowns running OS X on whatever junk box they can piece together. If you want Leopard buy a Mac. If you want to "build your own box" Run whatever other OS you want. The reason OS X runs so well is hardware and software are made to run together. This is just childish and moronic. While you are at it unlock your iPhone and brick that too.
Bunch of entitlement morons in society today. WHine whine whine.

Yes, you can go to the junkyard and buy all the parts you need to build your own car.............

How's that working for you?

Seriously, I CAN do that, I have the experience and ability.
But few actually can pull that off.

But why would I when I have a lot better things to do? Just buy a Mac and get on with life!

@ Regnillub

No you infantile Moron is still does violate the EULA, now just you are, so doen't your Hackin Piece of crap. Can't you read. Why bother with little things like laws and license agreements. Spend weeks trying to get your HackinCrap remotely working and the rest of of will continue getting work done on better hardware.

May 05, 08 - 10:32 am Comment from: Predrag

The only time I was pressured into installing a 'Hackintosh' was on my Office Lenovo. The department had no money to buy me a Mac, and I just couldn't efficiently function in Windows, so I tried putting Hackintosh on a partition. Well, two months and four different distributions later, I gave up. It's just not worth the colossal hassle of hunting down drivers, partitioning for dual boot, figuring out what to update, what not to update, only to have half-baked, buggy solution. I may end up buying a mini from my own money and hooking it up.

Apple probably won't need to do anything here. Psystar won't be selling too many of these, regardless of enormous publicity they have received.

Hackintosh is exactly what its name implies: a hacked contraption that resembles the real thing. Outside of a very limited group of tinkerers, very few people can use it productively. It has its purpose, spreading the word about Mac OS, continuing the Apple buzz on different levels. This is as far as it can realistically go.

May 05, 08 - 10:35 am Comment from: Tommy Boy

@ Predrag: At a certain point in time I'd rather just buy my own machine. Screw the company's budget.

May 05, 08 - 10:37 am Comment from: Buster

These idiots deserve to get bled to death...what the hell were they thinking?

Morons.

May 05, 08 - 10:38 am Comment from: Spark

@Streetool
Your post reminds me of a story about people in glass houses...

I did. It was the best thing I ever did. I was more productive than anyone in the company and no one could figure out why!!!

<snip>
It's just not worth the colossal hassle of hunting down drivers, partitioning for dual boot, figuring out what to update, what not to update, only to have half-baked, buggy solution. I may end up buying a mini from my own money and hooking it up.

I think it's just silly that anyone would buy an under powered lame excuse for a Mac clone instead of the real thing! This company will be gone in very short time.

Hackintosh...No thank you. Now if Apple put out a version of Mac OS X that would allow me to pick from a list of very specific components that have been certified to work with it. Then, yes, I would really consider that.

"Made for iPod"... "Made for iPhone"... "Made for OS X"

@ Spark

So you support people like Psystar ripping people off for a piece of crap that sounds like a 50's Hoover vacuum and having something thst still doesn't work. Remember they paid $399 plus $129 for the OS, HOW is that such a deal and better is any way. ?????

Tell me there glass house clown.

This just degrades the rest of the user experience for everyone else and puts a lot of mis-information into the public eye. Just plain stupid. You want OS X? buy a mac. Or go put a Ford engine in your Chevy. YeAh you can kind of get it in there, but at what price. Compare any mac hardware with any custom build hardware you can muster, the price difference if any is small, the cost in lost time and aggravation far outweighs any gain.

If I were Apple, I would argue that Unix, not Leopard is the operating system. Leopard is merely a front end user interface to Unix that Apple has developed to make it easier to use Unix on Apple computers. That there are plenty of other Unix operating systems out there with their own front ends that people can use on clones, such as Solaris.

dallas,

Read the "Related articles" before you spout off. MDN has been quite clear in their Takes.

Apple needs to expand its product line, not because of Paystar, but because as it expands, it needs to offer more models to address the various needs of the market, including for user friendly small towers where users can fit their own hard drives into a case without having to buy an all in one. These would sell like well, and the business market would buy tonnes. Apple's margins might suffer a tad, but volume would increase, as would market share. The market penetration of technology such as Firewire, would increase accordingly and Apple could offer features attuned to large corporations' low end users. It's time to review the idea of limited SKUs and think of the bigger picture, given the weakness of competing operating systems.

Forgetting the legality of the situation entirely, in the case of this company I don't know why anyone would buy anything from them. They seem shady at best. What support can you expect for the machine down the line? The software offers no upgrade path other than hacks so makes the machine a rather a poor purchase. Regular consumers aren't going to want the hassle of it and more technically inclined people are likely to want a better machine and hack it themselves. I just don't see Apple needing to waste too much money/time on a legal fight with these guys.

May 05, 08 - 11:20 am Comment from: HMCIV

Forget lawsuits from Apple. How soon before Psystar gets sued by an irate customer who tried to update Leopard or noticed the system prefs were wacked or got their finger chopped up in the CPU fan?

May 05, 08 - 11:24 am Comment from: alansky

[Psystar's] only apparent hope of scoring a decisive win is to file an antitrust suit and convince a court that Apple's domination of the market for computers running Mac OS X is harming consumers." —macoverdose_dot_com

Did Palm get sued for dominating the market for PDA's running PalmOS? That's ridiculous!

May 05, 08 - 11:34 am Comment from: jocknerd

While I would never buy this computer, I am intrigued in what may happen. If a million people bought these, maybe it would convince Stevie Boy that Apple needs another product. The iMac is not the answer for everyone. I currently have a 4 year old Power Mac G5 and I can't justify spending $3000 on a new one. How about a $1500 expandable Mac? I used to run Linux on my desktop while I used OS X only on my laptops, but then I found Final Cut and Aperture. So I made the switch to the Power Mac G5. You've got me now Apple, and I'd really love to spend some more money on you, but there is a piece of the puzzle missing for me.

May 05, 08 - 11:38 am Comment from: HolyMackerel

On what grounds would Apple take Psystar to court?

People take their PCs with Windows XP and use Parallels Transporter to copy it to their Mac or just move it to another PC. As long as they're not using the one copy of Windows twice this is still against the EULA, but no one is getting sued.

I still think the judge would rule against Apple, plus the negative press against Apple would be awful whether they won or lost. Apple have the lack of updating option should they ever decide to use it.

Maybe Psystar had to reverse-engineer some Apple code is illegal or the actual 'sale' (rather than X86 hobby install) is illegal, otherwise I cannot see how Apple can claim to have been harmed or had code stolen (since Psystar sell you MacOS X).

All this aside, it is not tempting to me in any way since I am not a tinkerer, a PC-fanboy or a lawyer.

@ Jocknerd.

The Imac may not be the answer for everyone, but it probably is for 95% of the people who use computers to simply surf, email, chat, pay bills on line and download PDF or use an Office or Iworks Document of some sort. Thats the 'consumer' market' What is a Imac other than a desk based Laptop anyway? No one adds stuff to a Laptop right? Running linux or hacking code, add a sound cardssis beyond the needs of most.

I too have a first generation G5 20 inch (1.8) I see no compelling reason to upgrade. In fact, perusing the net, there are many quite serviceable G5 17 inch 1.6 machines out there to be had for about $600.00 . For your average user, look no further.

If you want new. Imacs and mac books to be had at Apples reconditioned store for about $1,000. Again this is for 95% of users. Apple has done their market research. Few folks no matter WINTEL or Apple crack their box after purchase except to maybe add memory.

Pystar might have some appeal to a very small segment of the Apple market. They will be gone in the next 6 months.

You know it would be great to build your own system- like the days win I use to build my own pc. But, we all know the problems that happen and all the upgrades or the upgrade to help the last upgrade. In short, a pain.
I switched to Mac to get away form all the problems, software conflict, and the bloating of the OS or patches to it. So in short, I find it easier to buy a new mac and sale the old one-they bring more in resale than a pc.
Fewer problems and just works. I personally like it the way it is.

May 05, 08 - 12:08 pm Comment from: Demon

AntiTrust law does not apply to the MacOSX and Apple. MacOSX is a feature of Apple's Computer Hardware. It would be like suing Jeep over it's monopolist control of the RockTrac 4x4 Drive Train because, you can't get it on a Yugo, Toyota or GM 4x4 and it's hurting consumers freedom of buying the best and most serious 4x4 drive train of any vehicles. MacOSX is not a standalone product even in it's retail form. All retail copies of MacOSX are upgrade copies (read the EULA). The only full licensed copy is the one that comes per-installed on a Mac system.

@ Ngc589

I'm with you. the Imac form factor is brilliant. Less desktop foot print than a laptop, all the power you need for 95% of the tasks, all with the two most important things a computer user needs: the hardware is reliable, and the software lets you do what you need to do and doesn't become a problem. As you and countless others have said: It just works.

As long as Apple can keep doing this, they will have loyal customers like me who have owned Apple products since 1985 (Apple IIc in grad school).

Wish I had bought stock then. but grad students don't have money, especially afterl buying a $1495.00 computer with printer! That's in 1985 dollars! Big bucks! But to put in perspective, a "fat mac" 512K was $2495!

May 05, 08 - 12:47 pm Comment from: jocknerd

@grognard,

Ahh, the 95% principle. Except your logic is flawed. The iMac is good enough for 95% of Mac users. And even that is flawed since laptops are outselling the iMac. What you fail to include are users of PC's. A lot of them refuse to switch because they don't want an iMac. They want the separation of the computer from the display. They may already have a 20" display and don't want to give it up. Therefore they ignore the iMac altogether and decide to stick with another Windows PC.

You are right. I'm not a "consumer" by your definition. I want professional quality equipment. I own two MacBook Pro's. I also like to edit video but as a hobby not my profession. I like to add storage. And have the ability to upgrade my video card if necessary. Thats why a consumer or prosumer line of desktop Macs is needed. Give me a smaller version of the Mac Pro with a single processor, ability to upgrade the video card, add a second or third hard drive internally, FireWire 800 and sell it for $1499 and I'll pull out my credit card right now.

To be fair, to my statement, I am not looking at a situation like we see with PC hardware then or now. I do still think there is a need that could be well served by official Apple certified parts; "Made for OS X". It all really comes down to motherboards, disc drives, and Video Cards really. RAM and Processors not so much. Motherboards are the biggest issue with all that is integrated in to them.

Apple would still have a huge amount of control in what is and what isn't acceptable quality wise and if they structure the fee's to those wishing to have a part certified correctly, they would have a very nice revenue stream with a great profit margin.

@ Streetool

People still going to buy psystar if they want, just like people still buy Kia cars as oppose to BMW or Benz. Of course BMW and Benz is more expensive and offer superb driving experience, people still buy Kia because it's so much cheaper. If they want to buy, they'll pay the price.

@ jocknerd
...and all the others wanting Apple to fill every computer niche;

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
- Bill Cosby

May 05, 08 - 05:45 pm Comment from: informed

Ahh, MDN.

The place where illiterates and ignoramuses pretend to know Intellectual Property Rights law. Where semi-functional imbeciles, who would flunk 4th grade civics classes, lecture about the branches of government and their roles in private contract disputes.

I would read more of this thread, but I find the dust bunny in the corner of my office to be more intellectually stimulating.

May 05, 08 - 06:19 pm Comment from: ken1w

It's a $399 computer that costs $304 more if you add Leopard, FireWire, and wireless. And you can't get Bluetooth as an option. Add iLife for another $79.

You also get poorly integrated hardware, packaging that looks like a typical eBay purchase, and prospects for delayed (if any) OS updates.

It's the world's lousiest PC "bargain."

@dumbass

I read the articles and their MDN notes. All I could find is a vague "You get what you pay for" (surprise a $300 computer sucks) and a quote from the website about upgrading. I couldn't find any actual opinions about the company itself.

"It would be like suing Jeep over it's monopolist control of the RockTrac 4x4 Drive Train because, you can't get it on a Yugo "

I think Jeep would have trouble trying to sue somebody if they went out and payed for a RockTrac 4x4, put it in a Yugo and sold it to somebody else.

"People still going to buy psystar if they want, just like people still buy Kia cars as oppose to BMW or Benz. Of course BMW and Benz is more expensive and offer superb driving experience, people still buy Kia because it's so much cheaper. If they want to buy, they'll pay the price."

Except it seems that this Kia is faster than your BMW. Well at least you got leather seats, that's something isn't it?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/30/psystar-open-computer-notes-benchmarks-and-video/

dallas,

The quote below was too vague for you?

MacDailyNews Take: Anyone who buys something from that outfit risks making Steve Ballmer look sane.

Source: Payment-processing merchant severs ties with would-be Mac-cloner Psystar - April 17, 2008

Balmer and Gates will certainly make a donation...

@ "Except it seems that this Kia is faster than your BMW. Well at least you got leather seats, that's something isn't it?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/30/psystar-open-computer-notes-benchmarks-and-video/"

fanboys got bitchslapped!! if this is true...

May 08, 08 - 01:06 am Comment from: nanisani

@me - quote; "I think Jeep would have trouble trying to sue somebody if they went out and payed for a RockTrac 4x4, put it in a Yugo and sold it to somebody else."

Actually they could probably sue if someone started a business doing that and advertised it all over the internet as an alternative to a real Jeep.