MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Why on earth do we need this?
A. No one uses Messenger
B. There are plenty chat clients that support it should you need it.

Apr 30, 08 - 12:27 pm Comment from: macoverdose_dot_com

someone notify the cdc that another M$ infection has been unleashed on the world

Steve Balmer needs this for his MBP when he's running OSX.

This is a good development for the folks who will be using MS Office for Mac in the corporate environment and who rely on chat for communications. The Mac end of this software has always lagged, so this is a welcome development.

Apr 30, 08 - 12:41 pm Comment from: Predrag

If this does support A/V, then there is a chance it would challenge the position of Skype on Mac. I've been using iChat A/V for the past five years and it has been, and continues to be, by far the most robust, reliable and simple A/V conferencing solution. When I cannot use iChat (for example, when corporate firewall blocks it, or when the person on the other end is a Windows user and just won't except the pile of turd that AIM client for Windows is), I end up defaulting to Skype. While never as robust and reliable as iChat, skype goes through all firewalls (often masquerading itself as web traffic on port 80) and call quality is acceptable at this point.

For some reason, MSN seems to be quite popular in the third world countries (that includes what used to be called, and is now for some reason politically incorrect, the Eastern Europe - former Soviet bloc). I suppose what came with the cheapo PC was what users default to, and MSN messenger is always there, as is hotmail. While not many Macs are sold into this third world + Eastern Europe area, there are many Mac users who communicate with this world, so MSN 7 might get some traction there. I'd like to see if this will have any impact on the dominance of Skype in this area, though.

I`ll never use it, Adium is so much better

They should call this "Microsoft Office Messenger", because business is all it's good for. "Personal users" are pretty much all running Adium if they're using MSN/Windows Live Messenger/(whatever they're calling it this month).

Apr 30, 08 - 12:46 pm Comment from: Jubei

Well Messenger is used by corporate offices. Because of the monopoly, you have to have it to work with corporate users. You can't use anything else but corporate approved CIO Microsoft software. Thats why we are "FORCED" to need this POS.

Apr 30, 08 - 12:48 pm Comment from: HMCIV

Horray! Video iChat was getting too easy. It's time we had a challenge. Oh and could MSN also give us some backup/restore software? Y-e-a-a-a-a-h...that would be g-r-e-a-a-a-t.

"Mac 7" is out already?!

Note that Video/Audio will be available for offices with Corporate Communications server 2007 ONLY - personal users get the same cr*p as they always have.

When the rest of the world can figure out how to do video on a mac it's becoming more and more apparent that M$ have taken a decision to hamstring their product offering on the platform...

Apr 30, 08 - 12:51 pm Comment from: JAYGEE

I wish Messenger for Mac had some more features, like Windows Live Messenger, like winks, nudges & web cam.

like it or not, msn messenger is still one of the most used instant messenger around. Its pretty much the only one people in asia uses.

@Sunlokyee

MSN (the chat network) is popular, yes. But this is about Microsoft's chat application -- Messenger for Mac -- and it's not necessary since other chat apps exist. Adium is probably the most popular one.

Microsoft may have a chance if they kept the Mac version in sync with the Windows version, since there's a lot of proprietary stuff that the Mac version (any Mac chat app) can't access or utilize on the MSN network. It's a sad state of affairs.

Apr 30, 08 - 01:12 pm Comment from: Cubert

I can't wait to see how craptacular it is.

Apr 30, 08 - 01:15 pm Comment from: ichi

wOw, ms gets back to its roots, its bread and butter,  that is.

smart move.

Apr 30, 08 - 01:16 pm Comment from: ichi

and... somebody call the mac unit, we're grossly expanding their ops.

Mafiasoft Messenger? Who needs that? MobSweatBoy Balmer? Seriously?

Apr 30, 08 - 01:18 pm Comment from: Ampar

That's not very snappy.

Apr 30, 08 - 01:19 pm Comment from: Crabs

Junk. Total Junk. As far as the personal account goes, this isn't an upgrade in any way. It's a new, uglier icon. The corporate account gets A/V chat, but that's the only upgrade. This is really Messenger for Mac 6.1, not Messenger for Mac 7.

Which really sucks. Back in my dark Windows days, Messenger was one of the few applications that I actually liked. And it's the one application that I really miss being able to run (I have a PPC Mac, so I can't run BootCamp and the like). Screw Mac BU. How's about some feature parity, douche bags?

Apr 30, 08 - 01:22 pm Comment from: Predrag

And, amazingly enough, AOL's AIM is still the network with the highest number of active users at any time. It continues to amaze me how many people still live in the AOL's walled gardens. I'm sure the vast majority of users of AIM are in fact ordinary AOL users, with their clunky AOL client software. If you take those out of the equation, there won't be many people who only use AIM (on Windows, it's a monstrosity of the worst kind), or iChat on the Mac. Still, AOL doesn't miss a chance to trumpet the fact that their messenger is the most popular one in the world.

In the end, text chat has limited practical use for work; I have yet to meet a person who can type as fast as they can talk, and at least for me, it is always faster and easier to talk than to type. While I can see some rare situations where discreetly typed instant message might be preferred over a live phone call, I see little practical benefit from typing. When someone tires to send me an IM, I pick up the phone and call them. Fifteen years ago, long distance cost 15 cents per minute in the US. Today, I can call Serbia for 6 cents (or Burkina Faso for 15), so there really is no point in typing when I can do talking.

Having said that, there will always be people who for some reason like typing and often use it. For them, chat networks will be there. And they'll probably continue to use this Adium thing, ignoring thoroughly MSN's new offering.

Apr 30, 08 - 01:23 pm Comment from: anaknipedro

Open source developers do so many great things; I'm surprised they haven't been able to create a Mac IM client that does video chat with Windows Live Messenger. That is a feature I would pay for.

I think the new version of Adium will utilize many of the features on the MSN network that the PC users enjoy today (sans video/voice chat). so let's just wait a little longer w/o having to install something as inferior as Microsoft Messenger for Mac... Besides, does MSN 7 for Mac have multiple tabs? Com'on... it's fricking 2008 already... get on the "tab" wagon already...

Apr 30, 08 - 01:26 pm Comment from: Crabs

Oh, and who needs Adium either? I'm not a huge fan of that. The best way to use MSN on a Mac is on iChat through Jabber. Works great. Can't quite use the A/V stuff, though I hear they're working on it (by they, I mean the people running the Jabber network that I route my MSN account through). Still, it's a lot nicer than using Messenger for Mac or Adium.

Apr 30, 08 - 01:33 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

Not that I really care, but, Mess7, Office2008 - and no IE? I don't get it.

Apr 30, 08 - 01:49 pm Comment from: iamdj

@Missy Pants

hahaha... Good one!

sorry to be the dissenting voice on this one but I've actually been waiting for this. Being an in-house designer on a Mac with everyone else on PCs going "why can't I see you on messenger" and having to explain why the Mac version of messenger doesn't support the exchange server isn't fun. Also, it just gives them more ammo to make fun of me for using a mac. SO YES!!!! I'm happy about this one.

seriously, why do microsoft bother?

I will never install this pos bloated and virus ridden shit on my mac.

Do I care?

Nope!

Apr 30, 08 - 02:10 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

@uh oh,

No apology necessary - You Go!

100% of the contacts who've requested to IM me from Europe have inquired about MSN

Apr 30, 08 - 02:50 pm Comment from: NCIceman

That thing is demonic on a pc, why would I want to infect my mac with it?

I use a client called Mercury Messenger which pretty much has parity with MSN for Windows. This is just as much a piece of crap as version 6 was.

ONLY AMERICA USES AOL IM.

Microsoft is FAR more universal than "AMERICA" Online

The rest of the world uses MSN and Skype for Video.

Seriously, this isn't a bad thing... but it would be nice to have video.

@Nunya

"Why on earth do we need this?"

I think the answer is in the MDN column:

"Built for corporate Mac users on Office Communications Server 2007 ..."

This is about MS lock-in corporate-wide.


Of course home users will be better of with the multi-protocol Adium X:

http://www.adiumx.com/

And best off persuading friends to switch to something that uses Jabber, as that's open.

Just to clarify, MS Messenger is very popular outside the US, mostly for text messaging, but for video/audio at least on the Mac, Skype i think is far more popular given that it is multiplaform (win, max, linux)

And according to MS (after what 5 years?) this personal version will have A/V capabilities this year.

Here in Stockholm (the home of the syndrome) most use MSN for chat and Skype for video. At work we are still on PC's and using Notes 7 and the instant message function sucks, so we send mass updates via MSN. By having Messenger on my iMac at home I can maintain contact on days when I work from home.

In my experience text chat works pretty much the same whether using iChat, Skype or one of the many flavors that MS offers (Live, MSN, Messenger). Haven't tried Jabber yet, but I'll look into it as well. The main thing for me is being able to reach those who I need to reach, no matter which network they are on.

Apr 30, 08 - 05:07 pm Comment from: Reality Check

@Predrag: "For some reason, MSN seems to be quite popular in the third world countries (that includes what used to be called, and is now for some reason politically incorrect, the Eastern Europe - former Soviet bloc)"

You ignorant twat. Get a passport and visit these countries before issuing such daft proclamations. Most east Europeans run rings around the average obese American in terms of education. Acerage income is lower, but to describe east Europe as "3rd World" simply screams your pitiful ignorance.

Messenger for Windows is amazing! Messenger for Mac w/o video is a WASTE OF HARD DRIVE SPACE!

Damn, MS made the MSN7 logo uglier than before. Why is there a white outline on it??? Idiots. Luckily I only installed it to see what the fuss was about. Back to Adium it is for me!

Apr 30, 08 - 07:02 pm Comment from: Predrag

Boy, are some people here twitchy! What's most hilarious is the suggestion by (I presume fellow Eastern European) Reality Check to "get a passport and visit...", only to follow that with a fairly succinct insult of an "...average obese American"!

If you had read my post properly, you would have found that nowhere in that post have I implied that either of the two groups of countries (the also politically incorrectly called "Third World", as well as the Eastern Europe) are ignorant, uneducated or in any way inferior than any other country or countries in the world.

If my first paragraph was somewhat unclear ("... third world... including Eastern Europe..."), in the second paragraph it was obvious that I had referred to these two groups separately.

While most of us from any of the "Eastern European" countries don't feel comfortable being lumped together with the poor countries of sub-Saharan Africa, or even the developing countries of Latin America or South-East Asia, the fact remains that our economies have some years to go before we could comfortably call ourselves the developed world.

My reasoning was that economy may be at least part of the reason why MSN seems to be disproportionately popular in these countries.

There. And if you haven't noticed, I didn't even try to offend you here... Perhaps it's my Eastern European education that you claim is so superior to American...?

@ iamdj
Glad you caught that!

there aint no a/v... looks like the old version to me

BUT WHY?

May 01, 08 - 01:25 am Comment from: Macintosh

Whooopdie fuckin' doo.

May 01, 08 - 01:55 am Comment from: Reality Check

@Predrag: The fact you are east European makes me feel a little better about the motives behind your post, although not its accuracy. I travel frequently to both the US and eastern Europe and my wife is Romanian. I'm from the UK. And I am sensitive to the widespread ignorance about eastern Europe in the West. Most people still think eastern Europe is simply a place of people queuing for loaves of bread and locking up children in orphanages. This is usually accompanied by some kind of superior attitude and assumption that east Europeans are all stupid and only good for manual work. From my casual observations in east European airports, the view in the US also appears to be that these are Godless lands that need Jesus - as the lounge inevitably has a coach party of missionaries.

Although the economies are still developing, there is nothing third world about the vast majority of eastern Europe. Indeed, I've seen greater poverty whilst driving through some parts of the US. Comments like yours, whatever the intention, simply serve to prop up ignorant stereotypes.

As for obesity, my statement was an exaggeration: only 33% of Americans are clinically obese (see http://www.downtoearth.org/articles/obesity_america.htm) not the 50% my statement implied. Give it time.