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I like the math in the MDN take.

Microsoft's arguments never stand up well to scrutiny.

subscriptions in iTunes would be awesome. why not? I would pay $15/month for unlimited access to music, TV shows, and movies. Ok, maybe the movies/TV shows are extra? In that case, I'd pay about $45/month for all 3...cancel my UVERSE subscription (which I just switched to and its pretty good, but the Motorola box SUCKZ) and save $50/month.

Seriously, why would I want to buy TV shows? And why can't I try out music on a subscription basis? If the song is that great then I can always buy it for $1.29/0.99. This just seems to make sense.

May 11, 09 - 10:52 pm Comment from: cptnkirk

I have purchased around 900 tracks for my various iPods over the last few years. I have put 10 times that many on there from my CD collection. And I've probably bought more than most. Many of them were albums that I knew absolutely that I wanted every song and that made them relatively cheaper.

May 11, 09 - 11:06 pm Comment from: silverhawk

A few years ago Ballmer accused iPod users of being thieves who put stolen music on our players. I wish he could get his stories straight. Jeez!

Too many options for renting ie sirius etc, but if it ever does matter how long would it take to turn on itunes music subscription. er about 10 minutes.

I reckon it's also worth mentioning that everyone knows someone who has a "full" iPod who hasn't also bankrupted themselves in order to do it.

May 11, 09 - 11:13 pm Comment from: auren

Am I missing something here? What good is having access to a huge collection of music that can't possibly fit on my music player? Are they peddling access through WIFI? That would suck bigtime.
Or is MS suggesting that we load up a Zune and then periodically refresh that library, and all for a mere $14.99/month.

I don't think so.

Silverhawk,

iPod users are thieves. Ballmer means it would cost Zune owners $30,000 to fill an iPod. Er…if they owned an iPod. Which they don't, because they aren't thieves.

So I suppose the $30,000 would be for the 30,000 songs that (according to the Apple website) could be loaded onto the 120 GB iPod classic. Who is really walking around with 30,000 songs on his/her iPod? Probably nobody. Some may chose the iPod classic because they decided for a higher bit rate (better quality). People add photos and videos and those lower the leftover space for music significantly. I own about 500 albums at an average of, let's say 12 songs. That makes 6,000 songs. This is plenty enough for me to chose from. What uses up a lot of my iPods capacity is the Apple Lossless encoding at an average of about 30 MB per song, my videos (including Podcasts) and my photos. I can't fit my 6,000 songs on my iPod.

Here are some tips for Microsoft:
1) The 80s are over. People are not as naive about electronics anymore as they used to be back then.
2) People like to own "things".
3) I don't think that there are many people out there who would be proud to show off a Zune logo.

who is this guy? joe very douche?

May 12, 09 - 12:10 am Comment from: Steveeee

You can fill up your ipod with unlimited supply of podcasts and worthwhile stuff from iTunes U - audio or video, all for $0

May 12, 09 - 12:13 am Comment from: Steveeee

The songs I buy from iTunes Store can be use with presentation with 'Keynotes', iphoto slide show, imovie....... Can those from Zune Marketplace have the same use?

Geez that's all MS talks about is money isn't it? Their ads attacking Macs as being "too expensive" compared to (as Lauren put it) cheap crap PC's, and now this one criticizing iTunes as being "too expensive". It's painfully clear they could care less about the quality of the user experience.

They talk about "unlimited" downloads for $14.95 per month except that's just a marketing gimmick. You can't download unlimited songs in a month because there isn't unlimited time; you only have a month and even if you download non-stop round-the-clock you can only download so many songs.

And once you've downloaded the ones you like to listen to, you have to pay for them again, and again, and again to keep listening each month. 10 months later you've spent $149.90 and if you decide to cancel the service, you get to keep 100 songs which cost you $1.49 a piece. If you'd bought them from the iTunes store you'd have 151 songs (151 x .99 = 149.49). The longer you subscribe, the worse the value gets. Do it for 20 months and you own 200 songs instead of the 302 songs you'd have if you'd bought them on iTunes.

Once again, if MS is trying to talk you into it, it's not in your best interest.

correction: $14.99 per month

My music is 100% legal. Only 40GB but oh well. CDs not iTS (were I to have to buy from iTS, I'd leave out all the filler tracks and have just 10G.

But in tight times, like these, I OWN my music. Don't have to spend a CENT. And in tight times, one needs their music more than ever.

AND, I own some favorite tracks that are not available in any digital library. The best reason to collect music to own it forever is that it is the only way to guarantee you'll actually have it.

And the music you loved once and has disappeared is the best. It's the shit you can share with friends... "I bet you haven't heard this one!" Current discovery is Transvision Vamp "Tell that Girl to Shut up". Hilarious late 80s. There are multiple COVERS of this on the iTS. So I'm not the only one who noticed and loved. But the original is not there (I noticed cuz I thought it would be a great ring tone.)

Music that is loved should be OWNED.

And man, that old vinyl I saved... <3

====

Meanwhile talk about battles that are over. How many "iPod killing" subscription services have the analysts and other so-called journalists raved about over the years? C'mon IDN, aren't you counting?

I don't think everyone is as hardcore about owning as I am. But $14.99 is $180/year. That's cheap? More like a desperate fantasy of the dying recording industry. That's like 2/3 of a fully featured copy of Vista!

Renting music.... "you better tell that [MS bozo] to shut up!"

May 12, 09 - 12:38 am Comment from: LE Studios

I spent over $5,000 on Movies & TV Shows within a year! I own 164 Movies four are HD. I own 106 TV Shows that are 1,310 episodes some of those are HD as well (Like Heroes, Battlestar Galactica & Smallville). I spent over $5,000 on Music and I have 40,198 songs and 289 Music Videos. The total space is 1TB or 1,024GB. One Key Difference is that I was happy paid for this and I own it! I don't buy CDs or DVDs at Retail stores any more. I rather invest in my movies & TV Shows from iTunes. I can download it and watch it. Zune subscription you don't own that. The Zune player sucks! If Microsoft is so much better than Apple why didn't they come out with a handheld oh yeah they did called Windows Mobile and it sucks like WebTV, MSN Direct Watch, Xbox 360 is alright if you can have one that doesn't get the RROD which you have better chance of Microsoft coming up with original idea but instead they too busy copying off of Apple from their OS to iTunes with iPod. Far as Microsoft everything they produce doesn't have longevity to it. It like their Xbox 360 Games. They become worthless. I bought the Halo 3 Legendary Edition for $129.99 on 9-25-2007 now I can't even sell it for $60 on Craigslist. I just sold 8 games on Craigslist for $50! Best Buy was selling some Xbox 360 games for $9.99 each! Microsoft trying to throw stones in a glass house. Apple has 30 Billion Dollars in the bank today Microsoft has cash their Bonds first Time Ever! Then they laid of 30,000 workers plus they trying to push Windows 7 (aka Windows Vista Service Pack 2) out by September. Microsoft is going down and hopefully soon, bankrupt. They don't deserve OS market, Handheld market, music player market or any kind of market. Since they feel so threaten I hope Apple buy Electronic Arts turn AppleTV to a game console to finish their asses off! I hope and pray that Barrack Obama get the federal government off of PCs to Apple Macs. I hope EU break the bank in their country because of Antitrust of Internet Explorer included with Windows.

May 12, 09 - 12:46 am Comment from: ken1w

This type of marketing is brain-dead from the start. First of all, who are they kidding? Most people in Microsoft's target market already own an iPod. These people know they did not spend $30,000 to fill their iPods. They will ridicule Microsoft's marketing message (once again). Secondly, Microsoft is still relying on music to sell their Zune? iPods (especially the iPod touch) do a lot more these days than just music. It's obvious Microsoft cannot keep pace with Apple.

May 12, 09 - 12:54 am Comment from: almux

Sure, that way of putting $ in front of all worries can reach some results... But, M$ has to take a little care about some backfiring!
It is getting too obvious to all that M$ is an absurd money pit and by trying to finger out as Mac and iPod are expensive matters... M$ is only having three fingers pointing towards itself.
Yet, many primary brains (as Balmer's one) are probably sensitive to these sort of poor arguments...

Music subscriptions don't work period.
This a new concept that are allowing you to keep 10 songs after each month. Soon artist will be coming after MS where their dough is if their song is kept. Judging by MS accounting they are pretty muched f*cked. Not to mention their software will probably crash trying separate who gets what.
Over time you lose money if you decide to cancel because music subscription is something that'll get cut b4 movie subscriptions and then you would of paid $1.50 per track rather than .99/1.29 and not mention a little thing called DRM which MS is very highly in favor of.
MS are very good at conning people that they have the superior idea/product because they go after peoples INSTANT GRATIFICATION hunger and their wallets. But I think this a turning point for people that are starting to learn again they pay for what they get. And it's great we have a good company like Apple making everyone step up their game and produce better products, phones are way better than what they used tobe, but still are not iPhones, but have gotten better. Still MS marches to their own beat of the drum and is marching off a steep cliff.

More evidence that Microsoft is in deep trouble, I tell you.

AND, it has to be 100% clear by now that Crispin Porter & Bogusky are Apple's Trojan Horse....

Well done guys.

Which are people going to dispense with?

The mortgage or the Zune subsciption?

Another point 100% misaligned. Trojans.

“I spent over $5,000 on Movies & TV Shows within a year!”

I’ve got more but I downloaded it all for free from torrent sites.

Stupid Mac fanboy.

May 12, 09 - 02:39 am Comment from: BC Kelly

After spending $00.05, or $00.10, or $1.00, or $4.99, or $14.99

For music, movies, or tv shows

Or after spending $39.95 per month for cable

After any or all of those - what will you have ?


A LOT of shit movies, songs, and tv shows



Why would ANYone want to pay for CATV, movies, songs, tv ?

Even for free it's still shit

Screw 'em - Steal it

Not like it's worth anything




BC

May 12, 09 - 02:45 am Comment from: Derek in Milan

The average iPod contains the following:

Free podcasts
All of the music that you bought over the years ripped into iTunes.
All of the music that your friends bought over the years, ditto.
All of the music that your family bought, ditto.
CD's you borrowed from the library and ripped.
22 songs you bought from iTunes.
Various downloads over the last 10 years from the web, including many free sites, such as:

http://mp34u.muzic.com/publicdomain4U

Is this illegal? Its called normal behaviour between friends and family and the library, etc.

It is time to fight back - music should be .25c a track at most, and it only sells once.
Music makers should NOT be fat rich jerks living in mansions and behaving like assholes.

Save a musician from becoming like Sting - beg, steal or borrow some free music - TODAY.

May 12, 09 - 02:50 am Comment from: Derek in Milan

@ BC Kelly:

Amen, Brother!

Regardless of the price or payment model I think it would take me a while to download 120GB or more of music and that's forgetting having to actual select all those songs to then download. I'm just not going to do it.

@Derek in Milan

"Save a musician from becoming like Sting"

That's the best argument I've heard for piracy yet!

May 12, 09 - 03:39 am Comment from: Scott in Japan

Maybe. Just maybe. IF, there was someone who had never owned any kind of "mp3" player and they bought a new 120GB iPod. And IF this same person had previously NEVER owned ANY kind of music. And IF they had a computer that didn't have a CD/DVD drive. And IF they JUST HAD to fill the iPod RIGHT NOW... to CAPACITY. Then, MAYBE. Just MAYBE, it MIGHT cost them $30,000 !

microsuck. your stupidity. our stupidity.

What's equally stupid about this ad is it's reference to using iTunes to fill the the iPod. Besides loading one's own CD collection, what about other services like emusic where tracks can cost much less than those from iTunes (even if the availability is more limited than iTunes).

"You can fool some of the people ...." you know the rest ...

@BC Kelly,

Why would you spend money on content you don't even like.

Your logic defies 200 years of Economic Theory.

No matter arguments buying vs subscription.... this entire deal still involved having to buy a Zune, which makes the commercial totally wasted. If the service would have been available to all players, it could have been standing a small chance.

- Many people who will see the add don't know what a Zune is.

- All the people who have Zune already know about the subscription service and made their choice to use it or not long ago.

- The few people who both know what a Zune is and are about to purchase a new player soon is not a very large group and most of them are likely prefering to buy the songs as well, so the impact the commercial will have for zune sales will be minimal at best.

The rental business model had already failed by the time Apple launched the iTMS; that's why Apple didn't try to offer rentals. Some people just don't know when to quit flogging a dead horse.

-jcr

The MS argument is stupid on so many levels. How about when all you had were CDs and tapes? So.... $15-$20 per CD... and, well, an average house could hold probably 100,000,000 CDs, if you used up all the available space.

Therefore, having a house means you have to buy that many CDs and, thus, CDs will cost everybody $2,000,000,000. Therefore, don't buy CDs.

MS gets dumber and more desperate by the day.

MW: Attack - Attack of the Killer Tomatoes

Well over 90% of the average iPod content is from CD's, mostly owned, partly borrowed.

A lot of the rest consists of Podcasts, photos etc.

This has long been established by consumer research organizations.

There is only so much music one can listen too!

I have over 500 songs in New Rock/alt that I thought were worth listening over and over and paid for them.

I have over 2200 songs in Classic Rock that are worth listening too over and over and paid for them.

Most all of the above combined 2700 songs are hits or top rated songs on iTunes.

So if you take the music I really like and worth listening to over and over, the 2700 songs and divide them by the months left in the rest of my life...420 months lets say

2700/420=6.5

So that's only $6.50 a month instead of $14.99 for a subscription and the constant threats of losing all your music if you fail to pay one month.

What happens if the company fails? Or discontinues the subscription method? Get locked into a subscription only capable device?

Does one now have to pay for the songs on top of already paying a high monthly subscription fee?

Better to own it, make as many copies as you need, in a format that can be moved to most any device, when you need it, to protect your music investment.

OWNING IS BETTER!!

Also not many people buy 30,000 songs because there isn't that many good songs worth plunking down that much money for.

Also there is a sort of saturation limit with music, I don't know what to call it, but you tend to listen to the types of music you like and begin to prefer only the good songs, being content with not wanting a whole lot more. Perhaps just a few good new songs here and there.

So once you build up a huge collection of desirable music, you tend not to buy a whole lot more after that. I guess it's saturation. But for the most part your not going to spend $30,000 because it will end up resulting in having more music that a person could possibly handle.

With the subscription method you still have to pay the $14.99 fee every month even though you've collected all the music you can possibly handle!

The subscription method is just a way for people to cheat the artists.

Because once you've downloaded say $30,000 worth of songs, your going to find a way to analog rip the music into another computer.

There is software that can do this, it will analog rip and when there is a pause between songs will create a new file automagically.

Even if one doesn't want to do all this, there are plenty of sites to download music for free.

So if your trying to save money supposely with a subscription method, why bother and just steal it?

I don't see the big deal. Apple should offer both options.

May 12, 09 - 07:04 am Comment from: Retired Guy

I find it interesting that Microsoft would use someone from the industry (CFP) that has helped get this country into the trouble it is in. Can you spell PONZI?

May 12, 09 - 07:14 am Comment from: Zune Tang®

You can't argue with Microsoft's math. For less than the cost of 2 CDs you have an entire library at your disposal. Great job, Zune team! It's amazing someone didn't think of this before. Once again, where Microsoft leads, MAC will follow. If MAC still exists in 2 years.

Your potential. Our passion.™

Also to the music pirates out there.

I know it's easy to say "fsck em" because of whatever grudge you have.

Just remember the labels got rich and fat because of $25 cd's with one or two good songs and the rest is filler crap. The artists went along because the labels had the radio jockeys in their pocket and us consumers by the balls.

Since the advent of the internet, burning cds and filesharing, also iTunes "ala cart" method of buying songs, that is not the case any longer.

The artists are now rewarded (if you choose to pay like you should) by a per song basis. If it's a good song it sells, if it's not it sits unsold.

There is incredible competition on iTunes now, most buyers are only picking the best songs and leaving the rest. This is why the prices of the good songs are now $1.29 each.

So now the system is fair, we consumers got the upper hand at the expense of piracy.

Now that the system is fair, one should buy their music as so to keep rewarding the fair system.

Also a artist may produce 20 or 30 songs before hitting on one that sells extremely well.

So if you really like a song, buy it so the artist can produce more and it encourages more artists to produce more good music.

If you continue stealing, then nobody gets rewarded, including the consumer because no artist would bother making music for free.

Get it? Ok.

What's all the fuss about? I bought a lot of albums that had more than 10 songs on, so it cost me less than $30k to fill my iPod. And what do I care anyway? I'm rich! I can afford it. I even filled one for my wife, Melissa

This is the dumbest thing ever. Completely ignores video, photos, music videos (in the case of touch, apps).

It's just a dumb concept.

Why'd they stop at iPod. I mean, if they'd have extrapolated it out to a 1 terabyte Mac it could have been a figure large enough to buy a decent house.

By the way, do they every factor in the time it takes to download a song with a subscription. Having access to something is one thing, but actually using it in the real world is something else.

I probably find the time to download about 15 songs per month — about the same cost as a subscription. And guess what, it's my music afterwards.

I'd support an iTunes subscription model insofar as that it would provide consumers another choice. But I'd never subscribe to it. Ever.

May 12, 09 - 08:11 am Comment from: schininis

Pandora on my iPod touch.

Checkmate. We win.

May 12, 09 - 08:15 am Comment from: Road Warrior

Wait a minute, doesn't iTunes allow you to download those songs onto 5 computers/iPods? That would make it only $6,000 per iPod. At that rate your investment would be worth more than a Zune subscription (and I gather a Zune subscription can be done on 5 Zunes) after 33 years.

That's not too bad actually for the iPod.

May 12, 09 - 08:17 am Comment from: NCMacMan

Music subscriptions have been proven as so-so business plan. They do not produce enough revenue to suport the company.

Funny, the only thing that did work is the closed iPod ecosystem.

Even funnier are the reports that ever since the Labels were able to garner tiered pricing on music in iTunes that they are actually making less money than they would be if all songs were still priced at $.99.

What's funniest is that you have to have a Zune for this advertisement to apply to you; my favorite quote in recent memory on the Zune -- "You have a Zune???" (Chuck Bartowski)

May 12, 09 - 08:29 am Comment from: Ottawa Mark

@ Road Warrior,

Actually there's no DRM at all on iTunes songs now, you can do anything you want with them, you OWN them. Of course, your digital signature is still on the file, so illegally file sharing it is a big no-no, but otherwise...

May 12, 09 - 08:37 am Comment from: Steve516

Yup, like some of the other M$ ads, it ignores some very basic common sense stuff. Most folks have at least a handful of CD's that they purchased or were given as gifts over the years. This will probably continue for quite some time. Like books and newspapers, people like to have something physical to grab onto and own. I personally have not purchased a CD for myself in quite some time, but I have offered them as gifts to folks. Next, they ignore that I borrowed my friends CD's and ripped those, and vice versa. Or that if you have some time to figure it out, you can easily transfer iTunes from one machine to another. Harder for music that was purchased of course, but possible.

Overall, I have purchased music, movies, and TV shows from iTunes - but it is a small fraction of what I have in my collection.

Maybe Micro$oft hired that Financial Advisors cheap?

He could be one of those who's mis-sold mortages to people who couldn't afford them, thus bringing down the global economy?

Yep, I'm gonna take his advice, buy a Zune and save $30,000.
Or maybe just give all my money to charity? But which deserves the money more - Oxfam, M$ or Dell..?

His math is wrong.
I have several iPods and iPhones at my house, they all are sync'd with my library, so technically, I would pay only $5000 to fill my iP*s

May 12, 09 - 08:50 am Comment from: Demon

And all Microsoft's Music is DRM'd and only playable on a Zune. iTunes music is DRM Free and can be played on any player that supports the industry standard AAC format. The Microsoft Zune Pass crap is also of lower quality and in Microsoft's Proprietary WMA format. While Purchased tracks are low quality MP3 files.

Doc E: "Once again, if MS is trying to talk you into it, it's not in your best interest."

Absolute classic. I love it.

So I guess there's what, 30-40 million people walking around with full iPods? That many people too stupid to buy a Zune? How can that many people get it wrong MS? Their argument is totally stupid. People that buy huge capacity iPods usually do so because they already have a huge music collection that they want to carry with them.

Me, I have a relatively small music collection that I enjoy, but my iPod is always full with video, podcasts, audio books etc. $30,000?? Who's going to even believe that ad? No one is that gullible.