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'Windows is a legacy OS'

That's the quote of the week. And it couldn't be any more true either.

<yawn> Whatever..do not now, nor plan to in the future, make any effort to install Windows anything on any Mac I have now or will have in the future.

MW-going. Macintosh.. going its own way for 22 years

Say wha?

Figures. Vista is just another version of XP in a new tin can. Seriously sad. You'd think with the multiple versions that they are going to make they would at least have ONE version that would suppose EFI.

MDNews Magic Word: "Alone" as in "Sputnik is alone in thinking that no EFI support is a good thing"

This is irrelevant. Dual booting is fairly pointless when working. What is needed is something like VPC which runs on the Intel Macs so XP/Longhorn can run inside OS X as a separate process. That way it stays as a proper Mac but allows you to slum on the mean streeets of Windows when required.

Why would Microsoft help Mac market share? Of course Microsoft will make it difficult to run Windows natively on Macs. People claiming this would be in Microsoft's best interests are being silly; Apple is a rival in the digital entertainment space, and increased Mac market share only helps Apple further its goals as well as introduce more people to OS X.

“I’m not sure why Microsoft decided to drop EFI support after having promised up until now that it would be included in Vista.”

“A promise made is a debt unpaid.” Robert Service

“A promise is a cloud, fulfillment is rain.” Arabian proverb

“Promise little and do much.” Hebrew proverb

“No cause of action arises from a bare promise.” Legal maxim

“An acre of performance if worth a world of promise.” Red Auerbach

That goes to show you how much progress Microsoft has NOT made with Vista. If Apple were to do the same as Microsoft all the analyst would be up in arms about why keep such an old technology going for 20 years! Stocks would fall like the new years eve ball if Apple came out with something like this in what is supposed to be a new operating system. It seems like everyone was right. Vista is just going to be XP Plus instead of something all new. Get out your virus updates and spyware blockers PC people, you're going to need them with Vista the all OLD operating system is coming back to haunt you once more.

It's not all bad news though, you can choose from seven different versions of Vista that I'm sure will clean out your bank account really well.

M$ just shot themselves in the foot. More and more folks are going to care less and less about Windoze, and this move just casts that in bronze.

It’s kinda fun watching the end of M$. Granted, it’s probably a ten year journey, but i’m enjoying it so far.

Microsoft would slash its own wrists if it thought it would hurt mac sales

What? You think anyting we promised for Vist was a sure thing? Ninety percent of what we promisd has already been dropped. I fuigure we got anohter 9 percent to work with and still not be complete liars.

Steve Jobs wishes he could pull this kidn of crap off and get away with it like we do.

Yeeeeehhaaaaaaa!!!! I love this company!!!!!!!!

I call bullshit. If Mac OS X can be hacked to run on a BIOS system then Windows Vista can be made to run on EFI systems.

Whatchoo talkin' bout, Ballmer?

"Why would Microsoft help Mac market share?"

"Microsoft would slash its own wrists if it thought it would hurt mac sales."


Well it would be easy for Microsoft to hurt Mac sales and market share. Just discontinue all Mac applications and support.

Ain't gonna happen. Microsoft will be a Mac developer as long as possible because Apple is their R&D;Idea Factory.

And MS makes good money from Mac app sales.

M$ are weak. They're only using EFI with 64 bit Vista. It's going to take a long time to bring the whole world to new supporting hardware.

These are business moves to maximize profit, not innovation. It would have been like Henry Ford building two versions of the Model T: one with rubber wheeels, the other with fastened-on horse shoes.

What will it matter with universal coding? MS has to do something to trap idiots into it's OS. If all programs came universal, why would anyone use MS? Oh, I forgot there are still a billion idiots out there.

Why, Bill? I thought you would be more happier to boot up MacOSX on your Dell computer?

Bill, just confess it publicly. You have been using Apple OS ever since. That's why you have developed Windoze 95 (Sys 7), and now VISTA (OS X Tiger), which I seriously think that is a stupid name.

You have been secretly carries Mac Note Book where ever you go. When nobody is around, you joyfully take out the Mac note book and use it......

You have told me all this when we met privately. You told me that you would LOVE to boot up Mac OS X with the Dell laptop. But now, BILL, Why are you always like to take back your word?

Maybe Bill thinks he can stick with BIOS and leave Apple stuck in an EFI dead-end. "If we don't support it, it'll die" kind of thinking. I wouldn't put it past him.

did you really think m$ would give you a cheap option to running windows on your mac? course not, they are going to make you buy THEIR virtual pc software making you pay even more for their operating system (if you can call it that)


windows vista home n for mactintosh pro 200X+ one year onecare subscription has a certain ring to it

Er, am I alone in having no desire to run Windows Vista on my Intel iMac?

It really says it all, the new intel macs can support EFI because they have no Legacy concerns. Of course they don't - no individual machine does - the OS does though. Somehow, Apple had no problems with this though, they managed to have their pre-existing OS work absolutely fine using it, so much so that it was barely mentioned apart from in relation to Windows and getting that to run.

OS X obviously works with both BIOS and EFI with no discernable problems, Vista does not despite being (supposedly) brand new and made by a company with vastly bigger resources, who have been working for ages on this particular iteration and who still have time to continue working on this iteration.

Admittedly Microsoft have a bigger job in terms of compatibility with hardware (of their own making - enforce some requirements?) but they're a bigger company. Funny.

Speaking as a convert from the Dark Side, you can keep that filthy rag of an OS away from my X.

Question: what are the respective advantages/disadvantages of BIOS vs EFI.
Or is EFI just superior in every way?
Thanks

I guess M$ have done this so that Vista will boot on existing PCs, which do not have EFI.

So now Redmond are going to tie their latest-and-greatest super-innovative revolutionary operating system to BIOS, a 20-year-old obsolete technology.

Microsoft just shot itself in a vital organ. They obviously think that with AMD as another chip supplier they can dictate to Intel. It just goes to show how their arrogance has clouded their ability to recognise a gamble worth playing.

Buy shares in RHAT and NOVL. This could get interesting.

Looks like Microsoft are going to differentiate Windows from OSX by making Windows as backward as possible.

Seems like an odd way to run a software business.

Iam really pleased to see the the IT developer world is waking up to the huge difference that has developed now between the quality of stuff from Apple and MS.

GO APPLE!

Makes perfect sense from MS's standpoint. They will still be able to protect their Mac software space my maintaining sales of Virtual PC AND they will will not lose as many current PC owners to switching. Why is everyone so surprised?

No Phil C,

you're not alone. But that's not the point.
There are a lot of people out there who have to use Windows.
I know an architect who couldn't work without the software he uses -
and it only runs on Windows.
He'll switch to Macs just as soon as he can run his software on them.
He dislikes Windows PC's.

"OS X obviously works with both BIOS and EFI with no discernable problems" I'm not so sure about that. I don't think OS X on generic PC hardware works flawlessly yet and of course ppc macs never used BIOS so I don't think we can say OS X runs on bios just fine. Unless the dev kits were BIOS, which is possible.

As far as I know, there are no benefits to BIOS other than that it's there, it's been tested, stuff (sorta) works with it. EFI seems to be much more versatile than BIOS and better at remembering how to use devices before the OS boots. I actually see this benefitting windows more. On windows I've had issues where my OS tries to send info off before my wireless card driver gets loaded, and I get stuck in a dead mate situation. Stuff like that doesn't happen on macs, in my experience. So MS should be the ones trying to get to EFI ASAP.

Please stop with the comments like "Keep Winblows off my machine! Why would you taint a mac with that crap?" Most of us hate windows (I know I do) but some people have legitimate reasons for it, and some of us just want to do it. We want the possibilty to be there, we want to do a little hacking if it's required. We are hard core computer nerds who like to play with our stuff and get it to do anything and everything. A lot of mac users are mac users because they just want a machine to do some stuff for them and do it right every time, and that's OK. They are artists or designers or writers or musicians or edittor or any of the million things a mac can help you do. They are not computer nerds; if an old fashioned hand driven machine could do the job better, they would use that. I am a mac user because when I want a computer to play with, and I want it to not fall apart whenever I look at it wrong. If an old fashioned hand driven machine could do it more easily, or even a bit better, I would find a way to make my computer do it, because it would be more fun. I have no great need to run windows, but just seeing it boot on an iMac would be my idea of a fun night. (note: I have other less nerdy things that qualify as fun nights, like movies, concerts, clubs, heavy drinking, waking up in places I don't know, so don't think I'm just a comp nerd.)

Hey, what were you all expecting? We're not developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers...

This is a bigger story about Micro$haft than it is about Apple. I look at this as another reversal of direction for what they are including in Vista. The new features keep coming off the table one by one...

MDN Word - "behind" - as in Micro$ucks is woefully behind in their Vista development.

M$ already has the OSX Code,as they need it for Office & you just know there just picking it to pieces, trying to figure out how to ad it to OS. But, with the updated Windows 95, sorry Vista, they can't get it to work unless they kill the support for EFI booting.

http://darwine.opendarwin.org/

this is simply a way to slow people from switching to mac, being able to load vista on a mac would have people that are curious about mac able to buy one to try it out while still retaining windows capability...and over time would realize the beauty of the mac os and switch totally

microsoft just stopped that from happening, they are scared...100%

So, if I look at this correctly Vista has really become the New Micrsoft Plus for Windows XP. It has new themes and some multimedia elements to make the windows experience a little bit better. Rather than show it as an add-on for XP they are presenting it as a whole new operating system. It's really sad that you can get all the new Vista features by spending little to no money for XP add-ons. Yahoo Widgets, Windowblinds, and Google search have been available for a long time. I guess innovation is in the eye of the beholder.

I hope Apple does more to encourage the Darwine application community.

Any noise from Applel about X11.app on the Intel chip?

We could kiss windows good-bye forever if that was fully implemented.

um if 64bit Windows Vista will run with EFI aren't 64 bit Intel Macs expected in the Vista timeframe anyway? I'll certainly be getting a 64bit Intel PowerMac when it comes out, then I hope to run Vista on it so I can run Cakewalk SONAR.

Jay, sorry, I meant to say that OSX run on Open Firmware (not BIOS) and EFI with seemingly no real problems (above and beyond what you get on first generations products). So if apple can get two systems on their OS why the hell can't Microsoft?

It's simple people.

If Vista uses bios you can buy it installed on a new computer or you can buy it and instal it on your 2 year old Dell POS. Lots of extra potential sales for Microsoft.

If Vista uses EFI the only sales are to brand new Computers. Big loss of sales for Microsoft and much longer transition from XP to Vista.

No anti Mac conspiracy here.

Paraplegic kittens wonder where the founders of Connectix - is that what they were called? - you know, that company that MS bought to take ownership of Virtual PC...yeah, those folks...we wonder were they are.

Why?

'Cause we would like for them to re-create that wonderful virtual world on an intel-mac

Never, NEVER, underestimate the killing potential of a paraplegic kitten.

Apple can provide OS X for both Intel and PPC machines. Microsoft can only design Windows for BIOS machines.

MS has to do this because they have millions upon millions of people that are using "older" hardware. Many of them will consider Vista for their one year old machine.

On the other hand the 64 bit machines will get EFI Vista, because they are not the "older" hardware (i.e. 32bit).

So you dual booters are really just hoping that we get the 64 bit Merom/Crusoe chips, or whatever Intel is calling them, in our Macs this fall.

Dan Warne writes like a sensationalist boob.

READ IT CAREFULLY! THEY ARE NOT DROPPING THE EFI!!!

IF YOU NOTICE, "They are only offering EFI on the 64-BIT versions"

Microsoft is encouraging people upgrade their LEGACY HARDWARE!

ONCE PEOPLE SEE THAT THEY CAN USE THE 64-BIT VERSION ONLY IN NEW HARDWARE, THEY WON'T TRY TO USE THEIR OLD 386dx-40 TO RUN VISTA.

Of course, it's not Microsoft's fault that Apple decided to downgrade to 32-BIT processors. That's APPLE'S PROBLEM.

Stupid OS tricks.

Reboot cool mac into windoze. Get a virus that eats your files. Panic. Reboot into OS X. OS X won't startup because some virus ate some critical file. Two OSes screwed. One computer unusable.

whatever.

you RARELY if ever get viruses if you keep XP up to date. And I'd imagine security has been tightened since XP.

All you doomsday maccies are delusional... perhaps as a means to justify your existence.