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Mar 31, 08 - 12:29 pm Comment from: Angelus520

And we're surprised by this???

Mar 31, 08 - 01:28 pm Comment from: Macromancer

another "grassroots" campaign?

Mar 31, 08 - 01:34 pm Comment from: anaknipedro

Scum bags.

Mar 31, 08 - 01:42 pm Comment from: Fred Mertz

another reason why I do not support ms by buying mac office.

Where were these complaints when the UN was doing the same stuff?

Mar 31, 08 - 01:43 pm Comment from: Jay-Z

I look back longingly at the days before I started my current job and was able to live completely and totally 100% Microsoft-free...

Mar 31, 08 - 01:45 pm Comment from: silverhawk

Money talks! Where's the EU anti-monopolists when we need them? They'll save the world yet.

Mar 31, 08 - 01:52 pm Comment from: Buster

Again this exemplifies what MS brings to the world. Innovation? no. Great products? no. Value for your money? no.

Disreputable business practices which makes MS scads of money? A most definite yes.

Mar 31, 08 - 01:59 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

Sh!t

Mar 31, 08 - 02:00 pm Comment from: HMCIV

After all these years, Micro$oft's still got that style!

With all this misconduct, they should just drop the issue and ban Microsoft from ever creating a standard again.

All this bologna about Apple now being "evil" still doesn't compare to standard practice at Microsoft.

Mar 31, 08 - 02:05 pm Comment from: Mr. Peabody

P.S.
And while ISO goes about "... fixing this mess...", can ISO please get WMA/WMV/WM - all things Windows media into one group, and pronounce them NOT an officially recognized standard once and for all. For audio it's AIF[F], that's it period. Even if WMA is an ISO recognized standard I would like to recommend that it be removed and publicly announced as such. Same goes for WMV.

Here's another revealing post at Groklaw. It quotes from an internal Microsoft document that was an exhibit in the Comes v. Microsoft litigation:

"Our mission is to establish Microsoft's platforms as the de facto standards throughout the computer industry.... Working behind the scenes to orchestrate "independent" praise of our technology, and damnation of the enemy's, is a key evangelism function ...

"I have mentioned before the "stacked panel". ... The key to stacking a panel is being able to choose the moderator. Most conference organizers allow the moderator to select the panel, so if you can pick the moderator, you win. ..."

http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20071023002351958


The guy a couple of posts above -- bon -- is right. No-one could look at Apple's record and Microsoft's and conclude it was the former that was "evil".

I guess Apple can play rough. You could say, for example, that Apple stitched up David Maynor over the wi-fi hack. When the NDA was over it turned out he did have a vulnerability there; and there you had Apple's Lynn Fox briefing against him, and Maynor unable to answer. But stitching up David Maynor and stitching up an international standards body are very different matters.

Microsoft will damage us all badly if we let them.

Mar 31, 08 - 02:29 pm Comment from: Cubert

Ha! They can't even get vote fixing right!

...time for a new international standards organization. This one's pwned by M$ now, it would seem.

Just for the record, Apple voted FOR Microsoft's OOXML and AGAINST open source & ODF.

> Just for the record, Apple voted FOR Microsoft's OOXML

So what? Apple obviously doesn't feel strong enough to annoy MS. In any case it wants Office on the Mac to please switchers and therefore must accept Office's formats.

It's a shame Apple can't or won't stick it to MS on this one. But that doesn't affect the basic truth being stated here: Microsoft is a semi-criminal immoral organization. Nothing changes that: it is.

Microsoft stinks to high heaven.

Why does Microsoft's politics suprise anyone? Ballmer looks and sounds more like a mafia kingpen than a real CEO of one of the largest tech companies. He's a joke. No other company in the world has such a blow-hard running it. Not even Larry Ellison can compare.

I'm amazed that they didn't do the same for HD-DVD.

I think it's time to act!

To make companies change their policies, let's hit them where it hurts the most: the wallet. We should boycott software and hardware that only support OOXML and not ODF.

I will start with boycotting iWorks and iPhone.

When Apple notices that people prefer Microsoft Word (+ ODF plugin) over Pages because their need to read and write ODF documents, a change is gonna come. And OOXML supporting iPhones gathering dust on the store shelves will soon be sent back to factory for ODF update.

If there are enough people who stop whining and start acting, we can make a difference.

Mar 31, 08 - 03:24 pm Comment from: OBill-Wan Kenobi

Really, if OOXML gets ISO approval, who gives a rats ass? Let's face it, MS Office is already the de facto standard for 99.99% of all business environments. It's more pervasive than Windows, itself. And frankly, what the international community does is their problem.

There is a lesson to be learned from the Linux phenomenon: it doesn't matter if you come up with something useable and freakin give it away - industry drives the marketplace. As long as corporations continue to buy into the Microsoft paradigm we are going to be forced to use MS Office, at least, some of the time. The only thing we can do is continue to use and support alternative office suits as well.

I have witnessed the same tactics in Mexico. Really shameful!

Mar 31, 08 - 05:32 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

If you can't win an election, why not steal it?
Microsoft… now stealing ideas and tactics from their friends the Bushies™.

Is anyone surprised?

Mar 31, 08 - 05:38 pm Comment from: Mr. Reeee

OBill-Wan Kenobi…
Yes, Linux is free. Whether it's usable is debatable.

Microsoft would like to take this opportunity to thank Apple for voting in favor of OOXML and against open source and ODF.

Be assured that with Apple's vote and subsequent adherence to Microsoft XML standards throughout OS X and its applications, one can be assured of the highest quality experience in all Apple applications that utilize it. We thank Apple for the vote in Microsoft's favor and furthering Microsoft standards throughout the world.

Mar 31, 08 - 06:46 pm Comment from: Logan

I think MS told Apple that they would pull Office for Mac if they didn't vote for their standard. Apple can only do so much.

Mar 31, 08 - 07:07 pm Comment from: jocknerd

Its simple folks. Urge Apple to support ODF in iWorks and abandon OOXML.

It sickens me that Apple sides with Microsoft on this kind of stuff.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/microsofts-great-besmirching

Figure out a way to force the default file format to NOT be the new one.

Do it now before it defaults. Then everyone will say, I can't read your file; so you then got to buy the new MS office.

Apr 01, 08 - 10:15 am Comment from: Mr. Peabody

@Logan,

This seems quite plausible. I have owned two versions of MS Office/Mac: '98 and X. I bought them mostly for work, and so that my wife could feel that documents that she created at home would always work with the outside Microsofted world. But, all the while I've avoided ever becoming dependent on Office or even just Word. These products are just not necessary, and it simply is not the issue that some Mac users who feel the pressure (mostly from employers) to use MS Office claim that it is.

There are already a couple of developers that are promising compatibility with OOXML, Mariner and NeoOffice I believe are saying that they will be supporting this next proprietary MS thing. There's a little Mac word processor that already supports it - I think that's called "Bean". Anyway.

While I personally appreciate the fact that MS does have a Mac Business Unit, I look forward to a day when sales of Macs will be on the rise while sales of MS Office are sharply on the decline. People, all people, including Windows users, just need to make the choice to stop suckling at the tit of MS's office products. Desktop users have gotten to the point where they just use it dogmatically, not because it's actually necessary - and that includes a whole lot of Macintosh users.

Let's not forget too that, what no one will say out loud, so far, on this site is that Apple and MS are partners. And a partnership with either Apple or MS is no trivial matter, I have no doubt that this partnership is fraught with mountains of fine and tiny print that neither company can completely ignore, especially at perceptually critical junctions like this ISO scandal.

More to the point, if Apple could be convinced by the consumers of its computer products, that we no longer want or need MS Office, then I don't think that that part of the Apple/MS partnership alliance would continue very far into the future, and I don't think that either company would lose much sleep over it either. The bottom line here, as always, is the choices that we continue to make as individuals and companies. We're the ones that keep buying into the, can't-live-without-it mentality that MS has been so successful at creating on global scale. It's not real - It's just a perception created by an admitted skillful corporation. It's a perception that can be broken at any time by anyone - including Windows users. (Remember there are more than just a few Windows users that are beyond fed up with being locked into MS Office products too.)

We can live just fine without MS - We just have to decide to.

Apr 02, 08 - 02:46 am Comment from: derekcurrie

Doesn't this make you ashamed to have ever bought Microsoft products?

Apr 02, 08 - 03:04 am Comment from: derekcurrie

I don't think people understand exactly what is going on here.

OBill-Wan Kenobi sez: "Really, if OOXML gets ISO approval, who gives a rats ass? Let's face it, MS Office is already the de facto standard for 99.99% of all business environments. It's more pervasive than Windows, itself. And frankly, what the international community does is their problem.... There is a lesson to be learned from the Linux phenomenon: it doesn't matter if you come up with something useable and freakin give it away - industry drives the marketplace. As long as corporations continue to buy into the Microsoft paradigm we are going to be forced to use MS Office, at least, some of the time. The only thing we can do is continue to use and support alternative office suits as well."

Yes, but the point of defeating the Office Open XML scam is to allow the Open Doc format to remain THE single international document standard, as it currently is.

Why is this critical?

(1) The Open Doc standard is truly OPEN. Despite the lies by Microsoft, 'Office Open XML' is based on proprietary Microsoft code. And the code is so complicated and convoluted that it would take a genius to understand it and use it as a standard in their own application. It has already been done. But I know the developer who did it, and it cost his company an enormous amount of money to do it thanks to the time required to figure it out. Shameful.

(2) The Open Doc standard is the basis of Open Office, the free Open Source competitor with Microsoft. This is the biggest boon to the Open Source effort ever. There is simply no way for Microsoft to compete with Open Source. This is currently the very best method of kicking Microsoft off their monopoly pedestal.

(3) The less Microsoft in the computer industry the better the future of computer innovation. Microsoft is the rope strangling the computer community. Open Source is the knife that's cutting the rope.

(4) Keeping Open Doc as the sole international document standard FORCES Microsoft to support it in their Office Suite software. Otherwise, if 'Office Open XML' is made /another/ 'standard' then obviously Microsoft are going to entirely ignore the Open Doc standard, kicking Open Source in the junk. Ouch! And we'd be right back to where we were before Open Doc was invented. That's how Microsoft destroys progress in computer technology. Getting the clue yet kids?

(5) Sanity says: There should be one, and only one international document standard. Two standards? What's the point?