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More people use Apple Macs than you think; 8-12 percent of homes use Macs
Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 09:12 AM EST

"Your neighbor drives home with his new BMW and the first thing you say to him is a wisecrack about his car's low market share," Al Fasoldt reports for The Post-Standard. "You'd never do it. Nobody would. Most people drive Toyotas or Hondas or Fords, but that means nothing to the people who own BMWs. Right?"

"Then why are we constantly hearing about the Mac's low market share from people who ought to know better? I spent an evening checking out the actual percentage of Mac users, and I found numbers that ranged from 1.7 percent to 12 percent. That's a huge range, and the imprecision of the numbers tells a story," Fasoldt reports. "Comparing a free-market product to a monopoly product that's forced on consumers is a difficult task. Many buyers have no idea that they have a choice of operating systems and platforms. They walk into a computer store at the mall and buy what's there, and that means in most cases a Windows PC."

Fasoldt reports, "Apple's global share in the market for new computers hit a low of 1.7 percent in 2003. The 2004 numbers are likely to be a little better, but not much. Yet my own rough calculations indicate that 8 percent of the personal computers used today in homes - leaving out all the computers used in offices and businesses - are Apple Macintoshes. Others have said my number is conservative; I've seen the total for Macs in home use as high as 12 percent."

"How can we have 1.7 percent in one case and 8 percent to 12 percent in another? It's simple: People who represent the Windows side of the computer industry look out one door and Mac fans look out another," Fasoldt reports. "For example, the 2003 figure of 1.7 percent counts only the number of new computers sold month by month. It does not count the number of computers that are in use. You don't have to be a genius to realize the fallacy of this sort of statistic. Macs last longer than Windows PCs and don't need replacing as often. So Mac users aren't ever going to buy new computers at the same rate as Windows users."

Full article here.

Arik Hesseldahl also reported about this for Forbes back in June 2003:

"Naysayers have been calling for Apple's demise for years. But Apple not only has survived but thrived, it seems, at least partially by the sheer force of Jobs' will and his ability to maintain the ferocious loyalty of Apple's users, who still account for 10% of the world's computer users, while its sales usually account for about 3% to 5% of the world global PC market."

Link to full article here.

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Mar 31, 04 - 09:03 am Comment from: Matt

FINALLY!!!!

Mar 31, 04 - 09:06 am Comment from: cap`n

Doth mine eyes deceive me? Did someone finally get this right?? Give the man a cookie!

Mar 31, 04 - 09:07 am Comment from: SsnMx

Now go publish this in every major newspaper and website, so PC losers have a better idea of the "market share"
Gosh, I hate when they start talking about the *tiny* market share and how insignificant Macs are... >:(

Market share + clock speed = annoying argument with PC loser

Mar 31, 04 - 09:12 am Comment from: punter

Some one finally got the facts straight.
He's right on the money.

For example. 90% of our office (around 40 people) uses PCs at work but more than 30% uses Macs at home.

We routinely replaces PCs every 1.5-2 years and Macs every 4 years.

More than half of people I know uses Macs at home but PC's at work.

Mar 31, 04 - 09:20 am Comment from: Buffy

Im speechless

Mar 31, 04 - 09:23 am Comment from: Randy

Cool... this was always the first thing that came to my mind when others started spouting market share percents.
I still have a bondi blue 233 that runs like a champ (all things condsidered)... my Main-Mac is a 15" G4 iMac. Hooked up "old blue" to my broadband connection and it cruised. Try that with a Windoze of that age and see what happens.
grin

Mar 31, 04 - 09:26 am Comment from: Rick S

Wow! This is the first time I've seen this in print. Let alone in a newspaper. Wow! Someone should send Thurott(sp?), et al. a link!

Mar 31, 04 - 09:30 am Comment from: peragrin

I have always liked Al Fasdolt, he tells the simple facts and it is published in Syracuse's NY sunday paper. He isn't afraid to say bad things about any computer product, and uses Mac's, Windows, and even has used Linux. Tell your local papers to expand their coverage.

Mar 31, 04 - 09:38 am Comment from: Geo

Thanks MDN for including the Forbes article info. It cements the point nicely. Two publications saying this is much more credible than just one. Bet this is the only Mac site that will refer back to that Forbes article - unless they read it here, of course.

Mar 31, 04 - 09:41 am Comment from: Bora

"Your neighbor drives home with his new BMW and the first thing you say to him is a wisecrack about his car's low market share"

A good 70% of the people around where I go to school drive BMWs (amongst other expensive sports/luxury cars). If only the people there had the same mentality about Macs as well. smile

Mar 31, 04 - 09:56 am Comment from: GrapeGraphics

Geez, the same reason I drive an older BMW (87 325) and only switched from a PowerComputing (w/G3 card) to a Dual 867 G4 almost 3 years ago, I will most likely need a new computer in 1-2 years time... the G4 is 'fast enough' for my video editing and graphic work... Hmm, when have you heard a windows computer lasting a usable 5 years?

Mar 31, 04 - 10:09 am Comment from: Jack A

You must also take into account that the month by month sales numbers include dumb terminal computers which don't directly compete with Macintosh.

Mar 31, 04 - 10:20 am Comment from: Seahawk

Not only that, but the market share statistics is even more meaningless in that it does count computers sold in all sectors. It is like comparing the market share of BMW against all vehicle makers, trucks and golf carts combined.

"Look, Volvo has increseased its trucks lines and sell more trucks then ever now: sure BMW is doomed now. We estimate they will not last long with all those Volvo trucks on the market now."

Thurrot and other pundits crying out "Apple is doomed" reason along the above line of thought.

Mar 31, 04 - 10:23 am Comment from: GWB

I use a Mac.

Mar 31, 04 - 10:26 am Comment from: Vernon AnIsland

And so what??? That still means Apple sells fewer computers, makes less money.
The thrust of this whole argument of who´s got what market share should not be about the Apple "buy and hold" consumers (perhaps they keep their Apples longer because they cost 2-3 times more than a Windows PeeCee and they can´t afford to buy a new one), but more of how to turn PeeCee owners in Mac owners.

And the reporter falls into the trap of comparing Apple home consumers to the entire Windows PeeCee market.
Windows "home consumers" do not buy new computers every year or two. They keep them just as long as Apple users. We have a three year old Windows PeeCee (also have Apple computers)
it works fine. Our neighbor on the right has a PeeCee that is five years old, neighbor on the left has two that are 4 years old and they use them everyday.
The only people with the high turn over of Windows PeeCees are businesses who lease them or depreciate them out over a 2 year period. More and more businesses are stretching out the length of depreciation.

Mar 31, 04 - 10:42 am Comment from: Seahawk

Vernon, you do not get it. Apple actually sells MORE, still pundits cry "Doomed" because of the market share figure. Apple is debt-free and its cache reserves augment still pundits cry "Doomed". Idiotic? Yes.

Dumb terminal PCs are sold far more and more businesses go online, global market for computers is something like 24% more then year before. Apple sells only ~18% more - HENCE - its market share is seen as declining.

It is as silly as saying Britons population was 8% Chinese 10 years ago but their birth rate is lower then Chineses' . Now they are 6%, surely one day Britons will disappear with a POUFF from the earth if their % keeps going down.

Idiotic? OF COURSE, but it is the same argument to forecast Apple death.
It seems businesses are more willing to turn to Apple products (and I witness that on portables) more than before and maybe XServe G5 will strenghten the trend.

Mar 31, 04 - 10:43 am Comment from: Seahawk

the above should read "8% that of China" rather then "8% Chinese"

Mar 31, 04 - 10:43 am Comment from: PassionoftheKrispyKreme

I use both.

Mar 31, 04 - 10:48 am Comment from: Seahawk

The only reasonably thing one could get from market share is that Apple rate of growth is slower than global computer market growth not that Apple is selling less (which it does not) as people ignorant of what % is tend to understand...

Mar 31, 04 - 10:49 am Comment from: loser

I use a PC

Mar 31, 04 - 10:55 am Comment from: mike

i'm with you guys... this is about the best press apple has gotten in the past 10 years ... HURRAH!

more like these and logic might ensue! lmao.... best article for apple in years

Mar 31, 04 - 10:55 am Comment from: bi11jon

366mhz g3 ibook, 512mb ram, 40gb hard drive, running 10.3.3. she's a little champ. but 800x600 resolution limit keeps me from using iphoto4. still i can't seem to part with it even though there are $700 refurbished ibooks at the apple store. after you take a computer apart a few times its hard to let go. the point is, my mac's make using the computer fun.

Mar 31, 04 - 10:58 am Comment from: vernon

it's not about money with apple.. they're kicking ass.. it's about developers...

apple is now an electronics company too with pretty much the hottest selling gadget on the planet, and a way to pump demand (itms) even further.. they don't rely solely on macs to make money..they also make some of the best software for creative profs. anywhere...

money is not an issue... developers waking up to this LOGIC.. will be a huge win...

it's one stinking article.. but i'd be amazed if most developers though mac had a 10% share...

think about it.. that dvorak games article a few weeks back..

game makers couldn't care less about business pc's.. all they care about it home share..

Mar 31, 04 - 11:11 am Comment from: b

Does anyone any sales figures for a cross-platform game that either both versions have been out for a long time or both were released at about the same time?

Mar 31, 04 - 11:12 am Comment from: Less is More

From my limited experience, Mac users are getting twice the PeeCee lifespan -- or more. That puts a dent in any argument about cost, without even considering support costs.

Mar 31, 04 - 11:27 am Comment from: Seahawk

b, Vernon, I do not have figures for games but also that sectors is picking up.
Big name games are starting (again) to be released both versions at same time and hot games discontinued even as early as two years ago have seen announced the OS X version.

It is slow but a steady trend. Game developers are coming back to the platform and that shows the platform is picking up again.

Mar 31, 04 - 11:36 am Comment from: ndelc

I would certainly hope that developers, being part of the computer community, understand how to correctly measure market share between Macs and PCs. I have to believe they do because over the past few years the number of titles for the Mac has grown steadily. Other events like Adobe killing off various Mac software have nothing to do with Apple's market share, but rather slow sales on their products due to better offerings from Apple.

Mar 31, 04 - 11:48 am Comment from: Opinionated Jerk

Does my NeXT Color Turbo count?

Mar 31, 04 - 11:49 am Comment from: Joe McConnel

You guys are dying for affirmation aren't you? Nowhere does Al explain the method he uses in his "I spent an evening checking out the actual percentage of Mac users" statement. Heck I woulda said 15% and really made you feel good.

Leaving out "offices" (like my home office I guess) and "dumb computer terminals" really does help the equation. Keep searching for numbers to make you feel good, it's a free country.

Mar 31, 04 - 11:53 am Comment from: Mark Smith

Adobe say about 25% of their sales are on the Mac Platform, so things can't be that bad.
i think computer use is mainly defined by two groups:
Creative, photoshop, design etc-60% Mac
and Offices 99% PC

So Home use is probably 15% Mac, but because offices use many more PCs than Photographers and web designers use Macs the figures are distorted greatly

Mar 31, 04 - 11:57 am Comment from: Mark Smith

Joe why do you come here? I read in one thread you don't own a Mac, is that correct?
But four of your "relatives" do (at least someone does then)
What do you hope to gain by posting here, or does it help with you own inferiority complex?

Mar 31, 04 - 11:58 am Comment from: Brother Mugga

Hmmm.

I don't want to rain on the current parade (nb: this is clearly a lie), but can we all stop using the BMW argument? Including Stevie-babes, in his various keynote speeches. Market share *is* important to a computer manufacturer . . . if they use a unique operating system. To continue the car analogy, BMW would be a different proposition if their cars ran on 'different petrol' to most other cars. Even if it was 'better petrol'. Because they'd find an awful lot of garages wouldn't stock it. And then that hunk of gleaming engineering joy might eventually grind to a halt at a crucial juncture. An eventuality that might put many people off buying a BMW in the first place. Thereby setting up the obvious vicious circle.

I'm presuming I don't need to establish the rather evident analagous connections here, yeah?

Please feel free to flame, but you should know that I switched to a Mac last year having waited over 18 (long, *long*) months for the appearence of the G5 and would only go back to Wintel now if (a) Bill Gates had my nadgers in a vice or (b) oh, I don't know . . . some of the key software I needed wasn't Mac compatible (and ran unworkably slowly in emulation)? Hmmm, maybe I could just blend (a) and (b) together, perhaps? As Bill's little 'Plan Z to Finally Kill Apple' wallchart would seem to indicate.

I love Macs and have personally 'switched' over 8 of my mates/relatives in just the last 6 months. And yes, the software position isn't too bad currently. But if you don't think marketshare is important to those thinking about (spending huge amounts of dosh) developing for a 'unique' platform such as the Mac, then you're really not thinking straight. And haven't been watching the news over the last year or so. Specifically from sites such as Adobe (et al).

[And before someone piles in with the 'oh, companies just stop producing rival software because Apple's so great and they can't compete' response, you should perhaps ask yourself (a) whether zero competition is really great for software development (feel free to insert the term 'Redmond' into your stream of consciousness at some point here) and (b) whether Apple has the inclination or, indeed, the resources to carry the whole of the necessary software for the Mac on its already creaking back.]

Cheers

Brother Mugga

Mar 31, 04 - 12:04 pm Comment from: Brother Mugga

r.e. Vernon + Seahawk et al

Jeez, lads. Will you just stop sneaking in and stealing my thunder while I'm still typing the damn thing with my stumpy littel digits.

Tsch.

I have so little to live for . . . don't take even this away from me...

[sounds of sobbing slowly die away...]


Brother Mugga

PS: r.e. the gaming situation - maybe all the next gen consols going PPC will improve things? Surely it can't hurt? Just a (rather obvious) thought.

Mar 31, 04 - 12:09 pm Comment from: Charles

Actually, he's wrong.
He's talking about "installed base" - how many computers are out there being used. Maybe there Apple has 10% of the market. Very big maybe - look at Google's stats (/press/zeitgeist.html : that suggests a couple of per cent).

"Market share" is how many computers are being *sold*. (Google the definition.) Apple doesn't do well there. And I'd be interested to see if anyone has counted how many machines, total, Apple is selling now compared to, say, 2000. Is it more? In absolute terms I suspect it's fewer.

And here's the other point: installed base doesn't actually help Apple pay the bills. Market share - people buying new machines - does that. So market share, strictly defined, is the thing to focus on if you're thinking about living long and prospering.

Mar 31, 04 - 12:11 pm Comment from: Mark Smith

No ones saying market share isn't important, just that the market share is "Skewed" by the large amount of office PCs.
Take my point about a quarter of Adobe systems revenue coming from Macs.
(Actually its 34% in the case of Photoshop)
If Adobe continue to receive revenue from Apple users they will continue to develop their products.
If developers make crap programs though (Adobe premiere) then they will be dropped.
I am very happy with the amount of software available for the Mac and can only think of one program I miss since moving from the PC( Neat Image)
Games are a different picture though!!

Mar 31, 04 - 12:17 pm Comment from: Mark Smith

"And I'd be interested to see if anyone has counted how many machines, total, Apple is selling now compared to, say, 2000. Is it more? In absolute terms I suspect it's fewer.

Actually it's more!! it's just that they have a lower market share, even though they are selling more because PC market sales are up.
So you can increase the sales in unit terms but have diminished market share!

Mar 31, 04 - 12:43 pm Comment from: Charles

OK - if it's more, could you point me to some links showing that? I'd like to have it, as that's useful information.

Yes, the point about Adobe getting shedloads of money despite Apple's market share being small (but installed base being much larger, as I think we agree) is true. But imagine if Apple's market share (remember - number of machines it sells as a proportion) were larger....

None of which of course gets past the fact that this guy did confuse the two terms (it ain't a crime - I've done exactly that very recently, and got slapped for it) but there's no email to tell him so. Now that's annoying.

Charles

Mar 31, 04 - 12:43 pm Comment from: Nagromme

I'm sorry, but this is a really poor article. It has excellent points it COULD make but instead makes Mac users seem a bit clueless:

"If you and I both sell our own widgets but yours last five times as long as mine, I'd have to sell five times as many as you do just to keep the same market share."

No... you'd have to sell exactly AS many to keep "market share," but would then have only 1/5 the installed base compared to me with the long-life product. The author tries to make a point that IS important, but then gets it wrong.

And there are lots of unsupported statements that too important just to leave that way--some figure is "probably an understatement"... Why? Even if you don't have your own number proven, you can still say specifically why you disagree with someone else's number. Otherwise don't attack that number.

"As for the 12 percent number, I feel it's probably a huge overestimate. But it's probably accurate..."

I don't know WHAT to make of that smile

The principle that there are more Macs in use than last month's "market share" suggests--IS a good point to get out to people. But preferably not like this. Oh well.

Mar 31, 04 - 12:48 pm Comment from: Nagromme

And BTW, for developers, it IS installed base and NOT market share that matters first. The installed base is their customer base.

And the Mac's installed base is clearly "big enough" for developers. There's no app for Windows that I'm pining for on my Mac--the important stuff is cross-platform.

Yes, the Windows market is EVEN bigger--but the Mac market IS a big one.

And yes, developers and users alike will see the benefit as the installed base keeps growing. (Regardless of whether it grows FASTER than Windows or not--which is what would make market share go up.)

Mar 31, 04 - 12:52 pm Comment from: b

I agree that this article isn't worth much in details, but the seeing that there is a question is good. In reply to Charles' comments, Apple is making a boat load of $. More than most, even though they larger market shares. So I guess it must be their installed base that is making the $.

Mar 31, 04 - 12:58 pm Comment from: b

(this is a REWRITE-sorry) I agree that this article isn't worth much in details, but the fact that it sees that there is a question is good. In reply to Charles' comments, Apple is making a boat load of $. More than most, even though the other companies have a larger market shares. So I guess it must be Apple's installed base that is making the $.

Mar 31, 04 - 01:36 pm Comment from: Mac User

b:
I'm afraid it's not true that Apple is making a boat load of $. The key number is profit, including as a percentage of revenue (NOT just total revenue). At the moment, Apple has a fairly slim profit when compared to most successful companies and, in the long term, Apple will only survive if it achieves a healthy profit margin. On the other hand, I think Apple has a shot at significantly increasing profit over the next couple of years and, as an Apple fan, I hope they succeed!

Mar 31, 04 - 01:53 pm Comment from: Stock Owner

If it was not for Apple making a one-time sale of stock last quarter, plus all the other revenue it brings in from its cash horde of $4.6 billion it would have recorded a loss on its business for the last quarter.

Mar 31, 04 - 02:35 pm Comment from: b

Mac User, thanks for the reply. I was purposely being a little simplistic to make a point to Charles (his simplistic view: "Installed base doesn't actually help Apple pay the bills. Market share - people buying new machines - does that"). But I do think that Apple is using their Installed-base to make money and more effectively than any other company. They're ahead of the curve in this area. They are offering a lot of services such as iTunes, photo printing, and they are selling software (upgrades, ilife, etc.) to their users as well. I think this will become more essential as computer turn-over is bound to slow down for all manufactures.

Mar 31, 04 - 02:51 pm Comment from: Silvio Rahm, Switzerland

Thanks for that article!
I love my iMac (LCD15")..

Mar 31, 04 - 05:37 pm Comment from: SmurfTower

Awesome! My next comp purchase will be the PowerMac G5 Dual 3 Ghz. Regardless of what Apple's CPU speeds are like in the future, its the OS that will keep me a loyal customer.

Mar 31, 04 - 08:26 pm Comment from: Sol

It looks like there is more to statistics than meets the eye; at least when people using them become too selective. Apple must know that lifespan of Macs is longer than the average home PC so they price accordingly. If Mac users made up a third of computer users it would be possible to dramatically lower prices to the current line-up. Maybe when all current iPod users buy an iMac that will happen.

Mar 31, 04 - 08:33 pm Comment from: AjaxBruno

This was a pretty weak article. Conjecture for the most part.

We need this news presented in a better way, so that it will be believable.

I work in a University and run a Mac Lab for language learning. I wanted to find a pronunciation program for English learners and a few people said: "That's only 3% of the market, so we don't develop for the Mac." That's absurd. The Mac user base is larger in education than in many other areas, but the idiots had bought in to the sales myth.

We need the developers to understand that the INSTALLED USER BASE is what is important. Unfortunately, this type of article will not do the job because the message was convoluted by the lack of logic and overstatement of guesses.

Mar 31, 04 - 09:17 pm Comment from: e-twelve

I have four Macs going back to 1984 ( they all still run ... for better or worse ).
So the average life, by simple math, is five years each -
Each system I was able to incrementally upgrade with processor upgrades, memory, I/O, etc. to extend it's life until I felt that I needed to make a hardware upgrade to support the software I wanted to invest in.
I currently have a older G4 system ( Quicksilver SP 867Mhz ) - the improvements in OS X have kept me from feeling the need to upgrade to a newer machine - A G5 is on the horizon for me, but not in the next year - there seems to be no reason.
I also have Wintels on my home network for ( diminishing need ) connectivity with my business needs -
I've also rebuilt these machines with replacement motherboards, etc. - but the return on investment ( other than to play games that I have no time for ) is ludicrous - buy a game console ...
Maintaining virus definitions / patch revisions on the Wintels makes me want to unplug the monitors and retain them as space-heaters / white noise generators - I do dust them off periodically -
But their utilitity is questionable, at least anymore, from a compatibility viewpoint.

Mar 31, 04 - 10:39 pm Comment from: sMac

Wow, that story sounds just like a comment I made here a few weeks ago in response to a market share article.

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