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Mar 21, 08 - 09:30 am Comment from: Mac n' Cheese

Uncle Walt dropped the ball on this one.

Mar 21, 08 - 09:31 am Comment from: Ampar

I'd say he dropped both balls. C'mon Walt.

When your are short sighted do not look ahead, buy Vista glasses !..

Mar 21, 08 - 09:38 am Comment from: ron

I'm 75 and this is Barbra Streisand.


I'd say he dropped both balls. C'mon Walt.


Are you sure he ever had two?

Mar 21, 08 - 09:39 am Comment from: Cubert

And the young and fearless buy a Linux PC, and the masochistic, too.

Mar 21, 08 - 09:40 am Comment from: TowerTone

"Yeger"

We old geezers are jes' fine with our old beige PC's. Why I 'member the good old days when we had to walk three miles in the snow to learn how to program command lines in DOS.

These young snipperwhappers can have their fast and flashy Macs with their beautiful Aqua desktops. We geezers are old and afraid. Anybody got a Commodore 64 they want to get rid of? Now THAT was a computer you could sink your teeth into. If I could just find my teeth....

I sell Macs for a living and one of the questions I get is, "how hard is it to switch to the Mac". This question is usually easy to answer, but with older people like the ones described in Uncle Walt's article it becomes a bit tricky. I usually tell customers that if they are pretty well versed in using a computer whether it be a Windows XP or Vista they should become pretty acclimated to the Mac in a short time. If they have quite a bit of trouble with using computers in general they are going to have a harder time understanding the Mac. Not to say that once they do understand the Mac it will be a much happier experience for them altogether. The question is how much are they using their current computer right now and is it worth the expense and time at their age.

Mar 21, 08 - 09:45 am Comment from: MrScrith

With personal shopping assistance and one-on-one training at Apple stores, not having relatives who know Macs is not an excuse if you are anywhere near an Apple store.

As for age, My parents are mid 70's and are in the midst of transitioning to Mac's from many many years of windows frustrations, they are excited at the prospect. Age is not a limitation!

Mar 21, 08 - 09:46 am Comment from: ron

@Leader. The question is how much are they using their current computer right now and is it worth the expense and time at their age.

My motto is, "Do it now, you're going to be dead a long time".

The people are in their 70s... give 'em a break! Change is hard regardless of OS X being "easier." I had a hard enough time teaching my mother to send email and surf the web let alone try to teach her how to change operating systems.

Mar 21, 08 - 09:49 am Comment from: Spark

Hate to say it, but I'm siding with Scheduler on this one. Mossberg's advice was sound. There is no reason why those 70-year-olds shouldn't simply continue with what they are familiar with.

When MDN rags on schools that force Windows on students, I'm with them. We want kids to have exposure to Macs. But old dogs at the tail end of their computer using lives? Please, give them a rest.

Mar 21, 08 - 09:55 am Comment from: Ampar

ron, you've just pissed off a whole hell of a lot of zombies. You might want to stay home tonight.

Mar 21, 08 - 09:55 am Comment from: silverhawk

Don't blame Walt. He was probably on vacation and an intern wrote the piece.

So that's what P.C. has always meant all this time....

Prune Cocktail....

Mar 21, 08 - 09:56 am Comment from: TowerTone

"You might want to stay home tonight."

yes, stay away from the malls.

Sure, Macs can run Windows. But Apple does not support it. The reader, who is in his 70's, have children who can only help them when they are in a jam. So, who is going to install Boot Camp and Window XP for this elderly couple? So, I'll say once again, sure, Macs can run Windows. But who will install it for them?

@ ron... I love your motto! "Get a Mac now while you still can... You'll be dead a long time"

A while back, I had a freelance customer (an older woman) looking to replace her 7-year old Dell recently asked me if I thought she should change from Windows to Apple. Considering she was going to have to replace most of her archaic software anyway, the cost was going to be the same either way. Told her to visit an Apple store and see if the bundled apps in OSX would work for her needs (which were admittedly basic). She picked up a Macbook and, while she had some teething issues with networking and external drives, she's adapted pretty well.

For all the oft-vaunted "intuitiveness" of OSX vis a vis Windows systems, there's still a learning curve involved in making such a switch. As such, the curve is shorter and gentler going from XP to Vista rather than from XP to OSX. Pretending otherwise is dishonest.

Uncle Walt normally gets it right, but missed the mark on this one. I've seen friends buy PCs running XP that eventually have problems with spyware, viruses, etc. It gets to the point where they need a PC repair person to " clean up " the computer. You don't need to do that with a Mac. As far as training is concerned, if this couple has access to an Apple Store, they can take advantage of the " one-to-one " training to get comfortable with the computer and the Mac OS. The best advice would have been " Buy a Mac ".

Mar 21, 08 - 10:06 am Comment from: HMCIV

@MDN

I'm not sure I want Roseanne Barr or Heidi Klum near my Mac. Time Machine wasn't build to undo that sorta damage.

I agree with Walt. I discouraged my 75-year old father in law from switching. He reads every word of a simple installation dialogue box at a painfully glacial pace, and I can just imagine the panicked phone calls: "Where's Windows Explorer? Where's the START menu?" Feh.

Most people won't do the work involved (Step 1: Buy a Book, Step 2: Read it, Step 3: Practice new skills) relying instead, as these geezers referred to in the article, on relatives to wipe their bums for them. No thanks.

Mar 21, 08 - 10:09 am Comment from: Cubert

I think Uncle Steve and Uncle Walt are headed toward a good, old fashioned smack down.

Mar 21, 08 - 10:11 am Comment from: shen

" It's beyond us why Uncle Walt fails to clearly point out that buying a Mac — and only a Mac — gives users the capability to run any OS and application they desire."

you don't have relatives that age, do you? didn't think so.....

at that age, with a computer, they will be damn lucky to turn it on 60% of the time.

Mar 21, 08 - 10:11 am Comment from: Ampar

To Bryan J Blumberg: "But who will install it for them?"

You can buy a Mac with Windows preloaded on it. It's like being born addicted to crack.

My dad is 84 and only used Word and a laser printer.
It has gone slowly, but he made the transition to the iMac and Pages and now does fine. He also uses Safari some and Mail. He struggles with open/save dialog boxes, not knowing where to put stuff or find stuff.
My mom, who is 80, is now on her new iMac from her old eMac and she iChats with her grandson and blisters on email and checks her grow up town obituaries each day...it really raised my dad's eyebrows to try the Mac after multiple data losses and tons of painful reinstallations on his old Dell.

Bryan J Blumberg,

Places like MacMall have been selling Macs with Windows pre-installed for quite some time.

The lack of objectivity displayed by MDN and some of those who post here is mind boggling. I'm a huge Mac fan and a big believer in where Apple is headed. But computers are not toasters. They require lots of loving care. No matter how much you love your Apple computer, you can't tell me that it doesn't require tweaking from time to time. Having someone who can provide your computer with support is one of the most important aspects to owning a computer. This would be especially true if you're unfamiliar with computers or if you're older. It's hard to change when you're 40 more less when you're 70. Mossberg's advice is sound even if it does conflict with your (and my) biases.

Three years ago I switched my Windows-using-father over at the tender age of 75. He started with DOS back in the 80's but was never a techie kind of guy. Over the last 3 years he has come to me maybe a dozen times with questions. He did buy a book to help him along which he has gone to on a few occasions.

If this guy lives within a reasonable distance for support from an Apple store or another source of support there's no reason he shouldn't switch. My Dad would never go back to Windows!

I teach personal computing classes to older users.

There is an age cutoff - currently around 50 years old - where GENERALLY (most, not all) people just do not understand computers very well at all. They just don't know or grasp the basic concepts (hardware, software, storage, etc.). They think linearly, not non-linearly. They come from the mechanical age, not the information age. They understand physical buttons and switches, not virtual ones.

I have found that these people, just like the rest of us who are under-50, all do much better with Macs.

Macs are just better. They are made for people not engineers.

Falkirk,

I'll keep it simple for you, as you obviously need it that way:

Macs run Windows XP. Their kids could fix the Mac running Win XP the same as if it was a Dell.

Meanwhile the parents could progress beyond their own kids and learn Mac OS X and Mac apps on their own. If they bought a Dell instead of a a Mac, they'd be limiting themselves needlessly, as MDN points out.

MDN is so right, it hurts.

Fear Threshold.

It's just fear, not skill, knowledge or ability, that being addressed by Walt here. Some people are crippled by their fear of switching to something new, even if "new" is just a perception, and not a reality. A Mac is just a computer, after all. Has cords and buttons just like the rest.

I'm dealing with that with two clients right now --- constantly fighting with their PC shitboxes, but aren't ready to invest in a real solution.

Mar 21, 08 - 10:29 am Comment from: eMax

MDN- until the Mac runs windows out of the box with ZERO configuration these people will need to stick with windows.

They dont have the ability to install, or even understand that they can install Windows on a mac. It is much easier for them to have their family help them with a windows PC then it would be for them to get a mac and figure out how to run windows on it.

If you want to help them, and send them a free copy of how to run windows on your mac. then maybe they would have some help, but alone they shouldnt switch.

Mar 21, 08 - 10:30 am Comment from: Ampar

"No matter how much you love your Apple computer, you can't tell me that it doesn't require tweaking from time to time."

And a Windows PC doesn't? Which one requires more?

Who knows the cutoff age for pilots, surgeons and presidents?

I got my 85 year old aunt an iMac three months ago and she loves it. Much better than that door stop she was using.

These days, if they are in their 70's even knowing what a computer is probably means they have another decade or two of active minds.

Give me a break, they are not old and Walt did mess this one up.

eMax,

Read the posts above, you stupid fuck:

"Places like MacMall have been selling Macs with Windows pre-installed for quite some time."

Walt is spot on with this answer. Older people who feel the need to stay with XP should not be talked into moving to a Mac. I replaced all of the computers for my immediate family with Macs years ago but that's because I'm there and dealt with change issues. My in-laws however, I would never switch.

@Ron:
I'd stay inside. Things have a way of falling from the sky.

Mar 21, 08 - 10:33 am Comment from: DLMeyer

a) my mother was in her 80s when she got her first computer. A blue iBook. She was closer to 90 when she upgraded to a 14" iBook.
b) Buying a Mac to run Windows is a waste of money. If you fully intend to run only Windows, get a PC and save $500.
Many older people - I'm only 60, y'understand - have needs Windows can serve fairly well - if they can keep from getting infested. They have neither need nor desire to switch from one OS to another. Not for ANY reason. Walt is sort of right, right now the better choice may be a PC with XP. When XP is no longer an option, there's no good reason not to switch. Well, maybe if you plan to die in the next year or two ... but who plans that well?
Dave

Mar 21, 08 - 10:40 am Comment from: Ampar

"My in-laws however, I would never switch."

Because you hate them?

Mar 21, 08 - 10:45 am Comment from: alansky

I say that Walt Mossberg gave good advice in this case and MDN dropped the ball. The key point is that the questioners have a ready source of unlimited support for their PC. Who, pray tell, does MDN suggest these people call to set up their new Mac, install Parallels, install Windows, then teach them how to use their shiny new (and extremely unfamiliar) computer interface? Surely their PC-using children don't stand a chance of being up to the task? Just the initial setup would cost them 4-6 hours of a paid consultant's time. Bad advice, MDN. As much as I love Macs, there is no one solution that fits everybody's needs.

No, Walt's a very smart man. He doesn't want to have to wait behind a very long line of elderly, average switchers.

Mar 21, 08 - 10:48 am Comment from: Ampar

alansky:

"install Parallels, install Windows"

Check out the several posts above on Macs with preinstalled Windows.
Thanks.

I think that Microsoft will stop supporting xp forcing people to go to vista. I tried vista on my dell O my god, the vista and dell are in the storage room.

I just upgraded to a new 15.4" MacBook Pro 2.5GHz from an old 12" PowerBook G4 867MHz. Was waiting for a good replacement for the 12", but the MacBook Air just isn't it for me.

This is my first Intel Mac and I decided to install Vista on it. Well, I've had the machine for a week now and I haven't used Vista at all. I thought I'd use it for work, as, I'd hate to admit, I am a "dot not" developer. Nope. I just VPN into work in OS X and use MS RDC to connect to my work PC.

Vista is soon to be deleted from my Mac. Last thing I need to battle is all the spyware, viruses and the like. Oh, by the way, Vista looks and feels horrible. Not sure what all the hype is. It has a very counterintuitive and confusing interface. And this observation is coming from someone who has used macs since OS 6 and Windows since 3.1.

Mar 21, 08 - 11:01 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Lame advice.

My grandfather switched from a Tandy DOSBox to his first Mac (Bondi Blue iMac) when he was 93. He upgraded 2 years later to get an iMac with FireWire so he could edit video from his then new digital video camera.

He had a few adjustment problems at first, but he loved emailing everyone in the family and working on his videos.

My aunt recently switched from Windows 98 to a new aluminum iMac. She just turned 75.

It's never too late.

Mar 21, 08 - 11:02 am Comment from: Big Al

Giving older people brain puzzles, like crossword puzzles or switching from Windows to Mac OS X, is a very good way to stave off Alzheimer's.

Do them a favor, tell them to buy a Mac and drop Windows altogether. They will live a longer, stress free life.

Mar 21, 08 - 11:06 am Comment from: Tired of Retards

alansky,

What part of the following don't you understand?

"Places like MacMall have been selling Macs with Windows pre-installed for quite some time."

I think he is giving good advice to WIndows users. He says upfront that Mac hardware and OSX are superior. His advice: switch to a Mac unless you have a friendly neighborhood geek who'll give you the intense support you need. You can always put Windows on a Mac, but XP is not immortal and you might get stuck with Vista. That's another way of saying "Vista is awful and you might as well switch to OS X now."

If he were any more explicit, he'd sound like a fanboy.