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Brad Duea-fus

The most high profile of all the services is probably Apple's iTunes,

--

Yeah, the one that started the whole thing.

The one that's making money.

The one that works with the flat out only music player that matters.

The one that keeps announcing milestones every couple months.

I guess it's the high profile.

Oh yeah.. 80% marketshare.

Will the whinging ever stop?

Right on there, MDN!
Although there's no iTMS in Hong Kong yet, its still encouraging to see Apple do so well.
Thus far, I haven't seen any actual figures of iPods being sold, but from a visual census by moi, roughly half the people listening to MP3 players are donning the classic ipod whilte bud earphones, and quite alot of them proudly show the iPod shuffles hanging around the neck in front. Always brings a smile to my face to see a like-minded neighbour in the place....

Oh, and first post!

Mike A, Not till they get to your iPod.

Oops, maybe not first post then....
<sheepishly hides in the corner>

This just in: Microsoft chairman Bill Gates has tricked third-rate download services into offering an inferior audio format that does not work with an iPod (from AP wire reports).

You know, I needed a good laugh this morning, and now I've got one.

Funny watching these idiots squirm.

Crack kills, Mr. Duea...
Crack kills.

It is ironic that competitors of the iTunes Music Store complain about compatibility when DRM WMA files are not playable on Macs. It does not really matter because DRM files are only a fraction of the content in all MP3 players. CD sales continue to be strong and illegal downloads are still out there. This idea that online music will suddenly explode if iPods become compatible with DRM WMA music stores is wishful thinking on Napster's part. Without Apple doing it first, no-one would be offering per-track downloads anyway.

iTunes is merely an extension of iPod hardware, just like Mac OS X is just an extension of mac computers. iTunes is made by apple, for the iPod. It has some nifty inbuilt features that other companies copied and tried to compete with, but unless the competition can get people to stop buying iPods, iTunes will always have an unfair advantage.

Apple is not a monopoly because there is viable competition to iTunes and the iPod. Therefore it is up to these companies to make products that are compelling enough for consumers. Here's a possibility: a music store that sells unprotected MP3 or AAC files.

How to steal Napster subscription music.

1: Get a PC and a Napster account

2: Get a copy of WinAmp, you might have to use a slightly older version ans the new one might have disabled this feature...

3: Search online for the Output Stacker plugin for WinAmp

4: Play your M$ DRMed Napster subscription music and a copy will be made into a DRM file. WMA or even MP3.

5: If your lost, just search online for instructions

Of course all the good songs are purchase only, so it's a trap doing Napster.

And then again they don't have nearly as many songs as iTMs

For all that work ripping subscription music, one can get entire DVD's full of music from their friends.

iTunes provides a honest way to compensate the artists at a fair price, the music is yours to own forever.

Napster has a failed buisness model, selling music makes no money and they don't have hardware to back up the business.

Napster is doomed to fail eventually, nobody likes it once they get iTunes on their machines. iPods are cool and the rest is crapppppola.

"... Mr Duea is critical of the approach Apple has taken. He says Apple boss Steve Jobs has 'tricked people into buying a hardware trap' as iTunes songs can only be taken away and played on an iPod."

Awww, Boo-frickin'-Hoo.

Sour Grapes. 'Nuf said.

correction

4: ...into a DRM free file.

Winamp, Output Stacker


http://marv.kordix.com/archives/000400.html

My Rolls Royce is a hardware trap, too. How could I have been so blind!

Is it just me, or does everybody else here associate Napster with stealing music?

And MDN is 100% right - you can EASILY burn m4a (protected MP4 files) to CD, converting them to AIFF in the process then put them back into WMP or some other crap player. But why on earth would you want to do that?

Sour grapes from a company that's bleeding money like a stuck pig. Talk about hypocritical. Napster was originally born to promote stealing music and they were flattened for it. Then someone gets the bright idea of buying the dead name to "promote" legitimate music sales and has the audacity to decry Apple the company that truely innovated and legitimized the whole business of online music sales. No wonder Apple is number one and Napster is heading down the crapper. The Napster name is evil incarnate. Apple is cool beyond belief. That's the real deal!

Apple's music could always be opened to work on other devices. Microsoft's format could always be made to work on the iPod. It's all a question of whom you would want to be potentially stuck with. Microsoft with their great track record when it comes to file formats or Apple who use open source software and tart it up for consumer use. The massive market share Apple have got is a pretty clear indicator to me of people's choice.

Apple don't open up the music because they don't make on it, they make on the hardware you play it on. Microsoft has to "open" its music because they don't make hardware (for music at least) their goal is to have the whole market then gouge people on the music once they have no choice. Simple.

Just because I can play(forsure) my wma music on a myriad of other (rubbishy) music players doesn't mean I want to. I own one iPod - suits me (and the majority of other people) fine.

Isn't Napster the trap? I'd have to pay them every month for the rest of my life to rent the songs I like and even if I wanted to burn them to a CD I'd still have to pay for the individual tracks!!!
I've been using iTunes for 3 years and only recently finally got an iPod.
It's nice too see Apple leading an industry because they care about the product and the user. Too many of the competition have a basic idea of a concept and are just throwing a bunch of crap at the wall to see what sticks (e.g., Samsung announcing a dozen new MP3 players).
I look forward to the day when the iPod halo becomes the noose around the windows monopolistic throat!

I'd be willing to bet that Shawn Fanning is an iPod owner!!!

It's funny. When Apple was struggling just a few short years ago. I don't remember ever hearing such drool from the folks at 1 Infinity Loop. They got on with the business of inovating and making great stuff. that's what pulled them out of the basement and got them climbing back up to the top.

MW: ready—Are you ready for the ride to the top?

Meanwhile, back in the sane world…

The global music industry in 2004 was worth something like US$33 billion.

Apple's market-leading iTMS, which does at least cover most of developed globe since the launch in Japan, is currently selling around 1.75 million tracks/day, equating to around US$625 million in total out of the whole "legal" digital downloads industry (i.e. excluding AllOfMP3.com) which probably brings in around US$775 million. Thus, digital download accounts for less than 2.5% of the total music industry, and Apple's iTMS accounts for around 2.0% of the industry as a whole based on 2004 historic figures.

What this really means is that Apple has been intelligent enough to provide a music/audio management service (iTunes) that manages all of people's music, including the 97.5% that they have as tangible shiny pieces of laminated aluminium, as opposed to Mr. Duea's contribution which is merely to provide a service which probably only addresses around 40% of on-line consumers - let's be honest and recognise that most Windows machines are in offices where downloading music is restricted, that usage of services is probably only useful on Windows 2000/XP, and that it is only practical where you have a broadband connection [which lets out a lot of systems in the 2nd/3rd world]) - and constitutes around 0.5% of the music market.

Mr. Duea's mistake therefore was to believe that he could have a viable business model offering a service to 0.1 - 0.25% of the potential music market, whilst Apple's genius was in developing a platform/eco-system that addressed a market which, in all fairness, is probably some 250-500 times larger.

And now, what Mr. Duea would like - unsurprisingly - is for Apple to let Napster content - which coincidentally is pretty much the same content as is available on iTMS - onto the iTunes platform. And the way he wants that to happen is to convince 25 million iPod users that have been the stupid and gullible victims of a confidence trick.

In other words, it's everybody else's fault except his.

I'm sure that'll wash with Napster's shareholders when they find their holdings diluted by Microsoft's doubtless imminent "rescue plan".

I wish Napster would explain then how iTunes works on a wider range of personal computers than their service currently does. Last time I checked, Napster was Windows only. So who is offering the "hardware trap" afterall?

So again, it's the format war- WMA vs. AAC. WMA=proprietary (from MS no less). AAC=standard. These other companies CHOSE to use WMA. They could easily have chosen AAC or ANY other format, developed their own DRM (or had some other company develop it for them). They chose the MS solution. Thus far, the MS solution is losing pretty badly. Why is this Apple's fault? Apple did the research, came out with a superior product, and reaped the benefits. Times are changing- MS is not a guarantee for success anymore.

Companies that started their name with unfair practices, remain unfair. . .

Funny, Calling it a hardware trap because you are stuck with an iPod - it wasn't until recently that Napster could even be put on any player. These guys are really funny.

He says Apple boss Steve Jobs has 'tricked people into buying a hardware trap' as iTunes songs can only be taken away and played on an iPod.

Napster's service is also a hardware trap; meaning it only works on a Windows PC since their site explicitly says the following...

PC only, Windows XP/2000, Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.1 or higher, Windows Media Player 7.1 or higher, Internet connectivity
Note: Windows XP and Windows Media Player 10 are required to use the Napster To Go™ service.

When are these myopic idiots going to wake up and realize that the war has already been lost?!? WMA-DRM is dead. Apple's iTunes has already won this war. Video, Podcasting (or whatever else) are the next frontiers, but the battle for paid music downloads is all over but the shouting already. Like MDN says, why not go down to defeat with a little dignity since the game is already all but over and they've lost.

Mr. Duea is certainly acting in a manner consistent with an 8000lb gorilla sitting on top of him.

However, he is right - until FairPlay is licensed, if you use iTMS to buy music you are in a hardware trap. If you love your iPods as they are, then it isn't a big deal. If you want competition which will drive Apple and others to offer better products, then right now the situation is confining.

If you like lossless music, well, there really isn't much of an alternative for online downloads.

Funny, if you swapped Napster & Apple for Apple & Microsoft in any number of areas, some of the tunes would be a little different.

He's just making excuses because Napster is going down. They don't have a viable business model so he's blaming Apple for not being "open." Meaning, without the iPod, Napster can't stay in business.

More FUD from "the other guys". A hardware trap now, what else can these dumb people come up with. Oh yea I'm really trapped with my iPod.
I can use it on a PC and a Mac. Those other services and hardware don't work on a Mac. I can listen to MP3's, MP4's, Apple Lossless, AIFF and so on. Yea it's really trapping me, NOT!!! Those others have one sound they can listen to, WMF. Who's trapping who here? Oh and Apple is not grabbing anyones arms and dragging them to the register and taking your wallet and forcing your credit card through that I know of.
FUD, FUD, FUD...

Now, correct me if i'm wrong. But wouldnt you be able to take the MP3 file that you donwloaded from iTMS from your iTunes folder on your computer an d drag it into anything else and it would play. And then you can even encode it into WMA and put it onto any MP3 player via their loading software?

I've never used the service for myself-on my Mac (I've done it for friends on their PCs) so Maybe I'm wrong......but if im right, then nobody should really complain about anything about incompatibility.

A hardware trap you say? Ok then, as a Mac user, why don't you offer us a Mac compatible solution then Mr. Duea? It's funny how you want to blame Apple for not being "open", but it is you that have left me with no other choice but to use the iTunes/iPod solution as it's the only one that works with a Mac. So it seems quite obvious to me that you have nobody to blame but yourselves then...

I buy an album or more a week from iTMS and I don't even have an iPod currently. I listen to the music via my Mac and iTunes - hooked up to my stereo system.

So, how exactly am I locked into iPod?

Sorry for the reality intrusion, Napster weasel.

Mr. Duea paid $5,000,000 for the Napster name. I recommend that he sell the name to Microsoft, and distribute the funds to the shareholders.

some very funny stuff in this thread.

first comment for the hardware side: can you call this a business plan? "let's copy what's hot today because we are too lame to fingure out what will be hot tomorrow. then let's bitch about what's hot today because we could not make ours hot enough when we copied it to make any money, duh!"

second comment for the software side: can you call this a business plan? "let's not compete head to head because that would be too embarrassing, but let's sell subscriptions with the option to purchase. while we are lsing money, let's lay low in hte weeds and jump at the next opportunity to copy something that might work better"

third comment for the ecosystem: can you call this a business plan? "let's make sure we are able to keep our customers confused with 1000 options that require fulltime tech support people to make their walkman replacement play music. that's how we measure progress-tech support jobs/customer. we won't quite until the metric exceeds unity. we never liked those dang walkmen anyway-they didn't need a computer."

final comment that no one that is a ceo (other than steven p) understands: the ipod experience is about changing the way you listen to YOUR music. carry your library, whether it is 1000 songs or 20,000, with you so you can squeeze every available moment in your busy day to enjoy YOUR music. you could do that with your DAT walkman except playing the song you wanted out of 1,000 was a challenge. maybe if a ceo looked at competing from this perspective they might have half a chance in succeeding. access to YOUR music anytime, anywhere is a powerful potion. stevie understands that and god bless him for sharing that with the rest of us.

I am shocked. Thank goodness no one else does this. Like yahoo japan, they allow free streams of music now. Those great people. Apple is toast now *removes tongue from cheek*

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002447931_yahoojapan22.html

I'll tell you what I've thought of a solution:

Mr. Duea would like Apple to stop hogging its own customers for iTMS, who are are currently generating around $30 million a year in profit for Apple.

So how about Napster and all of their ilk each pay a one-time license fee of $5 million and then 5% of their gross profits with a minimum of $1 million per year - after all, Apple is doing all of the software/hardware R&D;, the least Mr. Duea and the rest of his WMA cronies could do is pay Apple for their work.

Now obviously the concept of Microsoft lackeys paying Apple for being their R&D;function - as opposed to stealing it - is a wholly new idea so I don't expect this to take off immediately, but I think its an idea worth exploring

That name has to be worth at least $5 now.

Talking about Napster gives me heartburn. I resent all these guys that don't let Macs into their stores.

It makes me so mad in fact, that I simply visit even more individual iTunes Music Stores than ever before. To facilitate this, I created a Safari Bookmark folder containing all twenty iTMS store URLS just so I could quickly visit any iTMS without first having to both be in iTunes and on an iTMS homepage in order to be able to access the Store Chooser function. Here's how.

Create a new folder in the Safari Bookmarks page (Safari>Bookmarks>Add Bookmark Folder). Drag out each of the iTMS icons one at a time from the Choose Store page in iTunes and drop them into the new folder on the Safari Bookmarks page. As you procede, change the "http" in each iTMS URL to "itms". Rename each URL as you add it to reflect the correct name of the store to which that URL applies. Place the new folder full of iTMS bookmarks into the Safari Bookmarks Bar if you haven't already done so. Done. You now have a dropdown menu in the Safari Bookmarks Bar for the home pages of all the individual iTunes Music Stores. Sweet.

If that's too much work, here's a URL for just the iTMS Store Chooser. Enter it into the Safari Address Bar but don't activate it. Instead simply drag the URL's blue globe icon from the Address Bar onto your desktop. Change the extension of the resultant desktop file from it's default .inetloc to ".webloc". Done. This creates a desktop web location bookmark which will always open iTunes to the iTMS Choose Store page. Drool over any iTMS, anytime, quickly and without the hassle of having to return to an iTMS homepage. Yum.

itms://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/com.apple.jingle.app.store.DirectAction/countrySelectorPage

Now ... if they would only let us buy ... heh.

HELP!

I'm caught in a HARDWARE TRAP and I can't get out!

Really, I can't... if I use the Dell on the next desk over my brain will implode.

Why, oh why did I ever lock myself into this stupid Mac that works all the time and doesn't crash and doesn't get viruses and TRAPS me into getting stuff DONE all day, and in style to boot? Oh, the humanity!

By the way, I also wonder where Oddyssey67 is, telling us all the good news about the trap Steve Jobs is setting for us next year with the new

"Apple iBro (Patent Pending)"

Of course, "i" for Intel

And "Bro" as in "Big Brother" - because your future will be controlled by iSteve with his Dr. Evil (TM) brand eDRM and future Macs will no longer carry the "Mac" nickname, they will be called affectionately "Little Box Of Horrors". Just as soon as next year, iSteve's evil genius minions will achieve their ultimate goals of delivering you less computer for your money, with all the eDRM you can eat! Mmm...

Maybe I'm paraphrasing his points; I'm not sure I got the exact wording. Hopefully the Odd-man will come in and tidy up his thoughts for us all.

Morning sarcasm provided by the Magic Word "Class". You just can't make this stuff up.

That Napster dude is nothing but a crybaby and a big fat hypocrite. Napster's service is NOT cross-platform, the moment you miss a payment you lose your music, and it does NOT PlayForSure. Doesn't he know that people pick the hardware first and use the software to run it. They don't pick their music store and then look for a player. HE IS AN IDIOT!

With iTunes, you buy a track and play it. Simple.

Sounds like Darren Waters and his editors at the BBC need some friendly emails to tell them to start printing the truth.

"iTunes songs can only be taken away and played on an iPod."

Right. Then the Audio CD I just burned does what?

"...as iTunes songs can only be taken away and played on an iPod."

Ummm... that has to be one of the most misleading statements ever.

Yes, perhaps the ipod is the only player supporting playback of AAC files. Let's see though, you have an AAC file downloaded into iTunes that you want on some other player. I'm pretty sure every mp3 player supports playing mp3 files so why don't you just convert the song directly to mp3 in iTunes?

It's not like it's difficult...control-click (or right-click for you PC users) on the song and choose "convert selection to mp3" (assuming you have mp3 chosen as the default format for importing in itunes prefs)

Voila! your song is in mp3 format. Only playable on an iPod??? I think not. Are people so ignorant that they can't figure this out?

Oh yeah...WMAs blow!

You can't blame the guy for being upset that Apple avoided the real hardware trap by not licensing Windows Media from an actual monopoly. How is he supposed to compete?

I wonder if it would be sensible in the not too distant future for Apple to actually start offering Fairplay licences to other operators presuming of course that such an action would not lead to serious usability, compatibility and security issues.

In all seriousness it would call these companies bluff and what is the danger here now? The opposition having invested so much in Microsoft's brown stuff are niether likely to actually offer it an any large scale way and are hardly financially able to do so even if they did wish to . The cost and complexity of actuallyoffering both WMA and AAC with little hope of actually making an impact in the latter would also make them even less competitive I suspect. And the likely handbags at 10yds between the confused download stores and music player makers as to what they should do in such a new situation would be a sight to be savour I suspect.

For Apple though it would give them plenty of good marketing and moral kudos and good publicity, make the iPod/iTunes combination by far the most open offering meaning comments like those above sound even more dum and laughable. Equally it could actually encourage a few specialist distributors to set up and offer specialist services to support iPods that Apple really can't be bothered with or have the resouces or inclination to cover, so widening the content net yet further. Seems win win at this stage especially as the iPod expands into new areas. After all a videopod would probably be in such a position from the off as MPEG4 is pretty much likely to be the majority standard and certainly far less unique than AAC amongst media companies generally.

The real FUD here is that Duea says you need an iPod to play an iTMS-purchased track. It's a subtle lie that is perpetuated by the iPod challengers and haters.

You can play it on a PC or Mac. No mp3 player or iPod required.

Mr. Duea is certainly acting in a manner consistent with an 8000lb gorilla sitting on top of him.

"However, he is right - until FairPlay is licensed, if you use iTMS to buy music you are in a hardware trap. If you love your iPods as they are, then it isn't a big deal. If you want competition which will drive Apple and others to offer better products, then right now the situation is confining.

If you like lossless music, well, there really isn't much of an alternative for online downloads.

Funny, if you swapped Napster & Apple for Apple & Microsoft in any number of areas, some of the tunes would be a little different."
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Nonsense, all of these products are out there. Why are consumers not choosing "Play for sure"? Apple is not stopping anyone from buying a dell digital jukebox or downloading music from any site they wish to download from. Apple may license in the future (who knows), but I'll bet if they do they will not allow WMA to be a part of the scenario. That would be just plain dumb. MS has set the tone for how the industry competes. Not Apple. Apple offers a cross platform solution. You don't like it don't buy it. There are plenty of other options. In fact if you are a PC user you have more options than Mac users. Go buy an MP3 player from Creative & get on with your life. Simple. The truth is that Apple offers the best solution. It has everything & more in the music dept. What do these other companies offer for music purchase & usability that Apple doesn't? Nothing compelling apparently. No ones choice is being taken away. The majority of people buy CDs & put there own music on their MP3 player of choice.