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When $27 or more of the stock is cash in the bank we start to get to the point that a hostile takeover will be funded by Apple's own cash!

If Steve Jobs does not use the cash, some one else will.

Apple needs to buy back their own stock, go private, or buy another company to protect their cash. How about TiVo! Make the MacMini / AppleTV the DVR of TiVo! Dominate another industry!!!

it's not surprising that tech stocks are falling and will continue because no one trusts that the tech stocks are properly valued ( remember dot com bubble ? ) just like the mortgages.

Dont worry, Obama will save us. Remember he is the answer to save the economy. He will increase taxes on us which will help us. Just remember that=)

my stocks go down much snappier now

Nov 12, 08 - 06:03 pm Comment from: thethirdshoe

@Obama Rules

I don't make $250,000. My taxes will go down.

America made a change... for the worse.

thethirdshoe,

If you believe that, you're a damn fool.

How old are you, nine?

Nothing to worry, NASDAQ is wrong, we are right. As we all know, this whole tech stock crash is part of the evil conspiracy against Apple, orchestrated by stupid analysts. The only two sources of financial information we can trust any more are MacDailyNews and Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster, who should reiterate his 250$ target any minute now. What the heck, let's make it a round $300.

Nov 12, 08 - 06:16 pm Comment from: Randian

@thethirdshoe

Clearly, you don't listen to Joe Biden, our new VP, or Governor Bill Richardson of New Mexico (probably a cabinet member in the coming administration). Both opine that taxes will be raised on anyone making over $115,000 . . . roughly half of what HRH Obama originally proposed.

And if you believe that this modified figure is the actual new floor, you are sadly and childishly mistaken. Get ready, America: You're about to "get it" at both ends.

I do make more than $250,000 and voted for Obama. I did so because I recognize that the country has to pay down its debts and restore itself to be strong again for my kids future and I believe the Obama administration to be more capable of recovery. I welcome the idea of "getting it at both ends" and can't wait for us to return to the injustice of the Clinton era again.

I like how a lot of nut jobs are ready to blame our economic woes on a man who has not yet even taken office yet. I can only imagine how shrill you will become once he actually assumes power.

My perspective: I am 36 years old. Out of those 36 years, Republicans have controlled the presidency for 24 of them, and despite what they claim to believe in... the government has gotten bigger, the debt has been growing out of control, our foreign policy is a disaster, corporations run wild, and our civil liberties have been eroded.

I have no idea if my taxes will go up or down under Obama. I suppose we'll have to see. But my tax rate is not my only concern.. If paying higher taxes means we have a stronger more secure country and affordable health care, then I would consider that a bargain.

Where's the hotshot who recently "backed the truck up" and bought AAPL at $85 or so?

Granted you're still ahead, but this alchemic market is turning a lot of gold into shit!!

I didn't know Obama was president yet. I must have missed something. Last time I checked that moron from texas was still around.

shizzer, you are correct. The moron from Illinois won't be sworn in until late January.

From http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/11/paul.republican/index.html

Where is our country heading? There's no doubt that a large majority of Americans believe we're on the wrong track. That's why the candidate demanding "change" won the election. It mattered not that the change offered was no change at all, only a change in the engineer of a runaway train.

Since the new alignment of political power offers no real change, we will remain on the same track without even a pretense of slowing the growth of government. With the new administration we can expect things to go from bad to worse.

As for Apple? At least they didn't eliminate their margins and go bottom-feeding in the good times. Hard to survive lean times when you're already sick....

Why do people blame the president, any president, for the economy?

Congress sets the taxes, Congress sets the budget. Tired of hearing "vote them all out, just not mine"

Besides, this country is doomed. We are voting for liars who will give us the most presents. All politicians will say whatever they think we want to hear in order to get elected. They know we wont pay attention once they are in office. Most of the public is too stupid to know who their congressman even is.

Someday the producers in this country will revolt and say it is not worth it to try harder anymore.

Over 50% of our country works for government in one form or another. We will keep voting for people who will promise to be our Santa Claus or our sugar daddy.

Just like Rome, our country will collapse from within someday too.

Sad.

@Obama Rules

I iCal-ed that.

This should be fun!

Nov 12, 08 - 11:08 pm Comment from: Dialtone

I suspect the those who complain loudest about taxes actually pay the least. When they do start making the big bucks, they'll soon realize that there are plenty of ways to avoid taxes:

* save the money for the future
* invest it into tools, business, solar retrofits, etc.
* give it away to your favorite nonprofit

It's all about being part of the solution.

If you make $250K and want to be badly taxed so that this country can pay off his debt, you are sadly mistaken. Your tax will be given to those not paying taxes and to fund Obama's fantasies like Universal health care (you think that is free?), National Civil defense (with the budget as bis as the military's, which now stands at $500B. Definitely not free!) and bailing out the car companies (so that Obama can pander for the Unions' votes again. Also definitely not free). Already Democrats are thinking about converting 401K that can be inherited by your loved ones to retirement accounts which vanish after you're dead.

But hey, Obama maybe able to collect more donation from fraudulent credit card transactions and foreign donations. That just may free up your taxes to go for paying the national debt.

The stock market is forward looking and has been "pricing" Obama winning the election and is now "pricing" the Obama administration. Clearly the market believes that business is going to be miserable under the Obama administration.

The Democrats have brought this on America with the Fair Housing Act that put people into homes they couldn't afford, with Fannie and Freddie backing the rancid loans.

I hope I live long enough to see the country recover from the Democrat's ineptitude and the Obama administration.

Wow, what a lot of sore-loser Republicans and money-obsessed crybabies here. Are you guys really Mac fans or are you just trolls sent by the RNC? I thought Mac fans were supposed to be cool.

Personally, I'm a Mac fan and an Obama voter. My AAPL position has lost $100k in the last year, most of it well before the election, and it could right down go to zero before I'd blame Obama for the loss. And even if it did I'd still be happer than having McGrumpy and that freak-show idiot-whore continue 8 years of the most inept management this country has ever seen.

Give me an 80% top tax rate any day (God knows I'll never pay it, money's not important enough to work that hard). The Danes pay 68% and are proven to be the happiest people in the world.

Who is John Galt?

@@John Galt

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2008/10/021856.php

John Galt (originally a character in Atlas Shrugged) is the name used to prove that Obama's campaign turned off the AVS (Address Verification System). To prevent credit card fraud, the address used in a credit card transaction must match up to the one on the CC company record. By turning off AVS, Obama effectively allowed all kinds of untraced donations from foreigners, prepaid cards, and people over the donation limit, or even donations using a stolen credit card. That's how Obama collected $650M from the Internet. No mention whatsoever from the mainstream media of this fraud. Obama bought the election using dirty cash.

Obama campaign is still accepting donations even though the election is over. Other names used to make donation Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, Bill Ayers, Tony Rezko.

Who are you liberals going to blame now, Joe the Plumber? Economy was fine up to two years ago when the Dems took control of congress, or were all of you asleep for the last two years. Can't blame Obama because he is not in office yet, sorry pal the market looks ahead and they don't like what they see. By the way dumbshits the Rep have controlled congress from 1994 until 2006 when we have had the greatest growth in history. Taxes were down, interest rates down, unemployment at under 5%. Also the Rep's kept your ass safe for 7 years, kiss all that goodbye, so don't go to any stadiums or crowded malls for the next 4 years, you may not come out alive.

People who take the time to learn the law don't pay taxes. And keep that nonsense about the 16th Amendment creating an Income Tax to yourself. It did nothing of the sort.

Only when the people wake up, learn what the law actually says instead of taking someones word for it, will they keep their hard earned money (all of it) instead of giving it to the tyrants in Washington.

"Government is like a fire, useful in the fireplace, but if it gets out of its place, it will consume everything you own" —George Washington

"...The people are bound to get wise to what this absurdity is doing to them one of these days and, when they do, look out...
...But let no one underestimate the power of the opposition. Our only hope for relief is in the greater power of the masses. Sooner of later that power will be asserted..."
T. Coleman Andrews - Former IRS Commissioner

Assert your power. Learn the truth about income taxes.. not what the IRS tells you. They're liars. Stop participating in a scam that is doing nothing but hurting you, your family, and our nation.

Who could ever be surprised? It's all about a natural twist of fate... Once in a while the big hour-glass must be turned when it's time to!

Nov 13, 08 - 08:06 am Comment from: MCCFR

Who are you liberals going to blame now(?)

Personally, I'm going to blame the idiot Republicans who sneaked in some amendments to a must-pass piece of Budget legislation back in the dying days of the Clinton administration, when he was the very definition of a lame duck.

The amendments effectively gave the banking and financial services industry what it wanted by way of deregulation.

Ask yourself how a $150 billion housing problem in the USA has turned into a $1.4 trillion global bailout. Ask yourself how Lehman Brothers wrote $400 billion of credit default swap transactions tied to actual debts of around $155 billion?

That's right: one investment bank did more damage to the banking system than the whole sub-prime business.

Nov 13, 08 - 08:13 am Comment from: MCCFR

If you don't mind, I'll also give some of the blame to Clinton for giving the PRC "most favoured nation" status.

And then, whilst I'm at it, I'm also going have a blast at the succession of politicians that have put the US taxpayer in the position where over 25% of every tax-dollar paid goes on debt interest.

If the current mess shows us anything, it's that politicians should keep their minds on big issues like financial regulation, the state of the nation's finances and "real" educational issues that ensure the long-term economic viability of the country and less time on whether the President got a BJ from a consenting adult or renaming French Fries.

Nov 13, 08 - 08:16 am Comment from: MCCFR

Shizzer,

Please don't be cruel to morons. Why should they be associated with Dubya?

We are very close to last month low and I hope we will have a redound from here, otherwise we can go much much lower.
GM news

Nov 13, 08 - 09:20 am Comment from: KingMel

@jbella - well stated. It is long past time that we began paying for the services that we consume rather than passing the burden on in the form of debt.

Savings and loan bailout a couple of decades ago...now the entire financial industry. Both the unintended result of deregulation and both entirely foreseeable and avoidable. Laissez-faire might work if corporations had a conscience and people could control their greed and lust for power.

jbella abides (with apologies to the dude).

Nov 13, 08 - 11:46 am Comment from: twilightmoon

fredo " Are you guys really Mac fans or are you just trolls sent by the RNC? I thought Mac fans were supposed to be cool."

It's very cool to be conservative. Unfortunately it requires intelligence, which I doubt that you have....

Note that Republican party is hardly the greatest advocate of conservatism, it's just less intolerable than the Democrat party, but frankly both of them suck.

"McGrumpy and that freak-show idiot-whore"

What a sorry loser you are, fredo, calling Palin a 'freak-show idiot whore'. Go crawl back under your rock, you ignorant tool.

Nov 13, 08 - 11:51 am Comment from: twilightmoon

MCCFR: "Personally, I'm going to blame the idiot Republicans who sneaked in some amendments to a must-pass piece of Budget legislation back in the dying days of the Clinton administration, when he was the very definition of a lame duck."

You're still blathering on about that? The whole credit default swap problem was based on bad credit which came from bad loans.

Or please explain how the credit default swap problem exists without bad loans to people who cannot pay?

Hint: you can't.


Suggestion: Stop using that faulty argument, you're only making yourself look foolish.

Nov 13, 08 - 03:06 pm Comment from: The Great Microsoft Shiller Massacre

What we are witnessing is the collapse and meltdown of the extreme faction of the right wing. Rather than come up with new ideas, they rely on tired, ugly, primitive attacks on those who don't subscribe to their borrow-and-spend, endless-boogyman-war, fear and loathing tactics. Times have changed, yet they haven't. Their black and white fear and hatred of anything that doesn't "fall into line" used to work, but not anymore.

President Obama. And you BETTER get used to it.

Nov 13, 08 - 03:16 pm Comment from: wleddy

This used to be an interesting forum, with commentary about Apple, Macs & geeky technology.

Now it's full of cr@p with people arguing politics.

Take the politics somewhere else.

MDN, how about getting a moderator to police the threads?

Nov 13, 08 - 04:25 pm Comment from: MCCFR

wleddy…

MDN doesn't want that.

If MDN wanted that, it wouldn't re-publish most of the stuff that descends into political feuding. And you can tell that because none of the "mainstream" Mac sites ever find a reason to talk about Apple's contribution to Proposition 8 or any other contentious subjects because they're not related to actual Mac technology or software.

MDN could publish interesting "real" Mac news like, for example, the existence of real Macintosh digital signage software for the first time. But it doesn't. Go figure.

Nov 13, 08 - 04:59 pm Comment from: MCCFR

Twilightmoon,

1) Because you're a right-wing idiot, you're going to find anything that doesn't conform to your model of prejudice (i.e. whatever you've been told by Rush Limbaugh and the guys at Faux News) difficult to understand. Don't worry about this: intelligent people will be running the country by the end of January and you can go back to your basket weaving or whatever it is you do for therapy.

2) You're making a classic error which is to assume that all Collateralized Debt Obligations (the so-called CDOs) are exclusively comprised of sub-prime mortgage debt. They're not.
They can comprise of any number of types of cash asset (mortgages, corporate debt, etc.) and/or synthetic instruments like CDS notes.

Once you lose track of who really owns what in a CDO and then you have institutions who hold CDS on assets in which they hold no material or beneficial interest, you create confusion. When you inject the CDS back into what are called hybrid CDOs, you create the opportunity for absolute chaos.

The banking industry created all of this so it could take items out of its balance sheet, effectively allowing them to do more business without increasing their regulatory reserve requirements.

In most of the world, they didn't have a sub-prime market like the US and yet they still got fscked over. Do you the Icelandic banking industry has a sub-prime industry? No it doesn't. It had a huge over-exposure to Credit Default Swaps.

You may not choose to believe any of this, that's your problem. I can't help you if want to live in ignorance. Thankfully, your opinion doesn't matter for the next two years.

I suspect that a democratic government will tend to kill less families in the world than a republican government would. But, sadly, I imagine that America will continue to kill more innocent civilians than all the terrorists in the world combined.

If you think that the temporary economic slowdown is more important than that, then, as most people already think, you are just not very good people.