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Jul 24, 08 - 10:16 am Comment from: Ampar

Rock star? Yeah, and Ballmer is thin.

Jul 24, 08 - 10:18 am Comment from: Wandering joe

Neil is cool, just a bit outta touch.

"...if it even gets in the car at all." Anyone putting loads of money into a car stereo is nuts to begin with. Too much noise from tires, wind, engine, transmission and so forth. MP3 or AAC is more than adequate for a car.

Anyone remember why Crosby, Stills and Nash canned his no-talent ass? Wasn't it something like when they sobered up they realized that he sucks?

-jcr

Oh, and let's not forget the only noteworthy mention of Niel Young ever made in a rock and roll song:

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?i=65293&id=65321&s=143441

Apple fans don't need him around, anyhow.

-jcr

I think the drugs Neil is / has taken is affecting his brain. As people get older their hearing sensitivity decreases substantially. He wants headlines where he can get them because he wants to rebel.

Jul 24, 08 - 10:25 am Comment from: Bluefin

Shows you the class guys like Mozart and Beethoven have.

Not once have they been interviewed whining about an Apple product that brought their music to new generations of music lovers!

An aging rock star, overpaid, out of touch with normal reality because of the huge cash he keeps getting for playing the same songs over and over.

I liked his music 30 years ago, but what is irritating is that he is still getting paid for it.

Ask a working person, a music fan, if the quality is good enough.

The answer, Mr. $50,000 stereo in your frickin mansion, is YES.

Blaming Apple, who are NOT at fault, shows how remote these super-rich types become.

Hey Neil, any chance of some cash? My frickin mortgage payment is due.

Jul 24, 08 - 10:28 am Comment from: Randian

Sorry, Wandering, but I can't agree in the slightest. Neil Young is an arrogant, effete snob of a man whose voice and talent left him LONG ago. John C. Randolph (above) is absolutely correct: If CS&N;couldn't put up with his destructive behavior and lack of work ethic, why should we? Truth is, Young is a has-been trying to return to the glory days when anyone gave a crap about what he said or did. Retire, Neil. You can use the rest!

This is true for all Internet digital music format. Not just iTunes.
‘Fisher-Price toy’ quality levels he said... ah ah ah very funny.

I saw Mozart last week.
Man, he was looking rough. He was totally Brahms and Liszt.

technically he is right.

sound quality sucks.

my brother has an awesome tube stereo. the sound is amazing.

but then again, I can't afford that type of quality even if I wanted it.

Jul 24, 08 - 10:32 am Comment from: Wade

Neil was one of the last holdovers to keep using analog recording equipment, and methinks his real beef is the whole digital format thingee itself. That said, the mp3 format is fairly atrocious, and should be critiqued on audiophile grounds. But MDN's take is correct- it ain't Apple's fault. In fact, Apple insists upon AAC, which does at least try to be fairly accurate. What people don't know about bitrate and all the rest is daunting, and Neil is a good front man for the fight, but, yeah, he's picking the wrong opponent in Apple, and confusing the issue more than confronting it.

I'm a fan of Neil Young, but MDN has it partly correct. The music cartels are partially to blame. They want you to buy that high margin disc. However, the fans also want this. If you have 4 gigs on an iPod nano you're carrying, do you want the most music you can carry or a single high def album?
I also notice that Neil isn't releasing his stuff on SACD or DVD audio exclusively. When the walkman came out, the headphones for those things were crappy, but I guess Neil missed all of that.
Yes, the sound quality is lower with an iPod, but if all of us had the storage space and the speed of download to accommodate several gigs of space per album, we'd all be on the bandwagon. And I think the sound quality will just improve over time.

Young has a bit of a cheek really, as his music – pleasant as it may be – hardly breaks musical barriers or stretches audio equipment.

As for criticising iTunes, I'd say he's a loser there too. Personally, I like iT for the fact that I can hear a little-known classical piece on the radio, and the odds are it's on iTunes for me to add to my collection – without having to wait weeks for a special order to limp through a high-street dealer.

Neil no longer has any appeal. He seems mad about it. His American Idol appearance was the first this latest generation has ever seen or heard of him. Noone today knows who he is...he is dried up...get a new career.

The only people that truly care (or can distinguish) the super high-quality music are audiophiles. Your average consumer can't recognize the difference between 128 bit and 256 bit music, so it really doesn't make any difference to the vast majority of the population. And any true audiophile wouldn't use digital, but good old vinyl, the truest representation of sound since it the music is actually scratched into the surface, not converted to digital and burned on to a disc.

Yes, what Apple offers is maybe a diluted product in terms of quality, but it sure is convenient. It doesn't take up a lot of space, still has high quality in it, and as MDN said, it's also what the labels will offer for the price Apple is willing to pay for.

I'm certain that the labels would offer higher quality bits if Apple were willing to pony up the cash to buy them, but then they'd have to pass that on to the consumers, so we'd be looking at what, 3.99/4.99 a song??? No thanks!!

I'm a fan of Neil's, but he has misdirected the anger on this one.

Jul 24, 08 - 10:34 am Comment from: Dialtone

Neil is a genius and the fidelity of his acoustic and live work is amazing. I think we should listen to what he has to say even though his ideas may challenge our preconceptions.

Jul 24, 08 - 10:35 am Comment from: Botvinnik

I thought Constanze was "effin' Mozart."

Jul 24, 08 - 10:36 am Comment from: Wandering joe

What sits at the piano and rots? Mozart decomposing.
CSN are ok CSNY rock. I stand by my previous statement.

Nobody is a bigger supporter of Apple than I am.... but you guys are wrong here.... and MDN often shows its immaturity - by closing his article and telling Young, he's not Mozart..... take it easy, please.... you made a good point, and ruined it with a childish closing.

It is not JUST the music industry MDN... Steve has a lot to do with it..... he has shown NO concern for sound quality in any of his products ( don't make me laugh about that Hifi box he put out a couple of years ago)

The sound quality of the iPhone is embarrassing.... yes, embarrassing.... I asked a friend to view a video on my 3G a couple of days ago.... he had to alternate between putting the phone to his head to hear it and pulling it away from his face to see the video....

Try listening to the iPhone's speaker phone in anything less than a dead silent room.... yeah, ok

iPhone haters can laugh at that, when they put their phone's on speaker or just use it without having to mash it into your ear to hear the other party.

The iPod's sound quality is pretty bad... and it's not just bits... it's parts.... if the sound was of any concern to Steve, he would have spent even 5 more dollars (Apple's cost) and included headphones that sound good....

For the person that says you don't need a good stereo in your car because of noise inside the car: You need to take a ride and listen to my car's audio system... the sound quality would shock you.... I do mean, "quality".... if you are satisfied, fine.. but making a blanket statement that no one can hear the quality in a car is wrong.

Let's go to the speaker on my macbook pro. The latest version is slightly better.... but anyone trying to listen to even a utube video would be put to shame by the average dell laptop for just volume.

Steve could care less about the sound quality...... don't tell me the music industry is at fault for the iPhone's bad audio. This is Steve's second attempt. iPhone 1 was even worse. Maybe by version 3 or 4 he will understand that people need to hear their phone. The demonstrations at Macworld sound great amplified through a sound system.

Jul 24, 08 - 10:37 am Comment from: Grigori

Neil has been vocal about this topic years before mp3 became the standard; he's been bashing CDs and their "pristine high-fidelity sound" for nearly two decades now. He doesn't even care for the high-res discs like DVD-A, etc. His stance has been pretty consistent: at least as regards his own recordings, he knows the analog master tapes, and he knows the digital versions, and he knows they ain't the same. Of course, he's listening on audio systems most of us can't even fathom. Even if he is "outta touch", as Wandering joe suggests, at least he gives a damn.

MDN is right, though, about his misplaced ire towards Apple, though I'm not so sure Apple would offer 24-bits/96KHz audio even if the labels allowed it: the demand simply isn't there.

I still believe vinyl is the best medium for music.

Didn't the song "Sweet Home Alabama" say "I hope Neil Young will remember...a Southern man don't need him around anyhow".
That song should be the song of the day on iTunes.

In other Neil Young News...

"DAMN KIDS—GET OFF MY LAWN!!!"

neil can't blame the cartels
he makes money off them... he's doing it because he's working for the cartels to slap apple

I don't agree with people slamming Neil Young for his comments. Your anger is as misdirected as his comments were. We have become a fast food nation with respect to Music. His point is that there is no longer any quality left at the rates with which people get their music. So, while I don't agree with the statement that the problem is itunes specific. You can't possibly disagree with the general message he is trying to convey. Saying he is a has been and dissing him only shows the immaturity often reflected by die hard Apple fans. The truth is the quality you get from digital music does suck. It sucks large! So, if you can't shoot Apple for that you shouldn't necessarily shoot a rock legend for trying to get things to a better place than they are!

Hey t,

While there is truth to what you say, I hate to tell you, but most of the biggest, most sought after mastering houses are run by guys in their 50s.
Look up Bruce Swedien. Still engineering and producing and very sought after. He's in his 70s. Roger Nichols is in his mid 60s. They'll engineer rings around someone in their 20s.

Cartels? Cartel implies some skill at keeping control...

In fact, one of the great missed opportunity for the recording industry is INCREASED music quality. "Lossless" just means lossless from the CD... why stop there?

But that's the kind of thinking that would come from an industry trying to add value for its paying customers instead of fixating on its non-customers.

Jul 24, 08 - 10:40 am Comment from: John Gee

Yeah -- but you can't experience his wobbly vocal cords as well on the iTunes store.

funny take MDN

Actually, this one is on Apple. Yes, maybe the music industry forces the DRM free to be no higher than 256 kpbs. But most of Apple's music is at a very lame 128 kbps! Every other store that has offered DRMed music over the last 2 or 3 years has done so at 192 kbps. So the cartels are restricting Apple only? Not on that issue.

I remember reading in a Rolling Stone or Spin article years ago that Young was criticizing the sound of CD's and hoping that DVD audio would be the next savior.

I think that what bothers him is that the technology is there, but consumers and the industry aren't all that interested in it. Apple is a real scapegoat in his argument. Human nature — or average humans — just don't care.

I'd pay for better sound, but I might be in the minority.

He does not live in the real world. When iPod started the cost per gig of memory was quite large. Apple took the practical sensible view of hitting a sensible compromise on quality and cost of storing a sensible number of songs.

Besides which, test a sample of the population and 90% won't ever be able to hear the difference. The 10%, of which he is a part, is reserved for serious musicians and audiophiles.

I was afraid this would turn up because I'm a HUGE Neil Young fan. Along with Bob Dylan, he's about the only rock star from the 60's/70's who is still relevant. I think the mistake he makes here is blaming Steve Jobs/Apple for giving people WHAT THEY WANT. Personally, I value portability more than higher quality, as do most people today.

And for the record, CSN never canned Neil Young, he's the only reason those three aren't currently working the drive through at Wendy's. He is by far the most talented of that group, but he got this one wrong.

Jul 24, 08 - 10:51 am Comment from: Connor MacBook

Most consumers are satisfied with compressed audio. The small percentage of audiophiles can go buy the CD or vinyl.

Besides, I reckon 128kbps AAC through an iPod sounds better than a cassette on an old Walkman.

@innhitman....

well welcome to the new world --- convenience will trump quality every time - the entire cell phone industry is built on that;

you want to carry it on your belt or in your pocket? you are not going to get hi quality video or sound at any marketable price....do you have an example that counters that? I can't think of any. I don't think the laws of physics will let you create good sound in a 1" or less speaker - headphones aside....maybe...and then you should carry around your headphone amp.

Macs are used all the time to *create* studio quality music, soundtracks, film, video, etc., but they are not the target playback mechanism. Put it on your multi-thousand $ sound/theater system and it will look and sound great. At studio monitors to your Mac ....it will sound great. will most people pay the $$ premium to have that built in? don't think so.

I guess the question I have for Neil is whether he compresses the sound of this music when its initially mastered to CD....that is where most of the dynamic range is first lost, isn't? (not talking about MP3/AAC compression here...that just "adds" to what is already screwed up)

Jul 24, 08 - 10:54 am Comment from: alansky

Neil Young's criticism makes no sense when you consider that a whole generation listened to portable music on Sony Walkman tape players. Cassette tapes = high fidelity?

Not to mention the fact that most home stereo systems have always been mismatched collections of old, outdated stereo components that pumped distorted music through over-sized, crappy speakers.

I love Neil Young, but he really doesn't know what he's talking about here.

blame Apple and the iPod? what about the cellphone companies? i have to sit on the train and hear these kids with their phones flipped open thinking the quality coming out is perfectly acceptable:
tik-tik-tik-POK tik-tik-tik-POK tik-tik-tik-POK tik-tik-tik-POK yzz knzz fzz tzz thzz bzznzz izz mzz wzz fzz fzz tik-tik-tik-POK tik-tik-tik-POK

or maybe that's just what popular music has been reduced to these days

Most music aficionados buy the CD and rip it at higher sample rates or trade/copy from others with high sample rates. They don't buy from iTunes. iTunes is designed for normal folks with less discriminating tastes in sound quality. Neil needs to go back to his environmental, anti-war ranting and play with his Lionel toy trains.

Jul 24, 08 - 10:56 am Comment from: MacNScott

Give me a freaking break. The INTERNET is the cause of lower quality music. People wanted to send music through the internet, so compression formats were invented. It has nothing to do with Apple or the iPod or iTunes.

Get a clue, Neil. Think.

It might not be Apple's fault that music is so bad lately (except for all the bands they use in their ads are absolutely horrible), but music IS absolutely horrible. Neil has a right to say what he believes and if you can't respect Neil Young of all people, who the hell can you respect?

This is what happens when you fail to put these old bastards out to pasture. He's on the verge of senility and still has a voice because yuppies like a lot of these MDN commenters still buy his music hoping for the good old days to return.

Neil Young is a decrepit, washed up piece of shit. Lil' Wayne probably sold more copies of The Carter III in its first week than Neil Young did in the last decade of his irrelevant career. But this old buzzard is still hanging around cause you Volvo driving, frappuccino drinking baby boomers still buy his trash.

Neil should get his publisher to sell Lossless tracks remixed from his original studio recordings. Or sell a super-duper BlueRay audio mix of everything.

You guys always step in it on this topic.

'"...if it even gets in the car at all." Anyone putting loads of money into a car stereo is nuts to begin with. Too much noise from tires, wind, engine, transmission and so forth. MP3 or AAC is more than adequate for a car.'

Obviously, you don't get it.

It's true-the labels are to blame, but nevertheless, downloads are indeed complete crap in quality. CD's were a loss in quality, and it's only spiraled downward since then. The cartels began all of this way back when digital music was first introduced. I don't feel like going into the particulars, but any audiophile weeps at the loss of middle range.

It always sounds to me like MDN falls squarely into the music is wallpaper or commodity camp, and that's sad.

I think Neil Young should remember, Steve Jobs don't need him around, anyhow.

(With respect to Lynyrd Skynyrd)

I'll buy Neil Young's music selections online in high fidelity format and load them on Neil Young's high fidelity PMP as soon as he develops them.

We all know that Apple couldn't had succeeded with the iPod in 2001 unless the music files were small (like they were). For Apple's part, it's about server space and bandwidth. I'm sure they would love to supply us with uncompressed music, but it's all about the Benjamin's. In the beginning of the iPod business model, it had to start this way.

For the iPod, "it's the battery stupid" and today to a lesser degree drive space. Like Neil's new converted electric-bio diesel 59' Lincoln Continental, it's all about batteries. This world is yearning for advanced battery technology.

The record companies think we're all pirates, so any music "these thieves" buy "online" need to be lower quality but charge us nearly the same price as CD's (MDN is right on this one). Apple would rather not deal with server and bandwidth issues (and costs). Ipods and iPhones don't have the battery or drives up to the task.

So what should we do? If you really about sound quality, go buy CD's and import them in any way you want. But we won't. We'll just sit on our asses and not know any better....

Jul 24, 08 - 11:07 am Comment from: John

Good take, MDN. The irony here is that most (all?) rock music is just fine with even the old MP3 format and around 160-190 kpbs. It's really classical and some jazz that suffers from low bit rates: stuff that is not electronically amplified in the first place so you are supposed to hear the original instruments in their original acoustical space is far, far more difficult to reproduce properly than is rock and/or other massively amplified music.

I know recording engineers in both classical and rock, and it really cracks me up how much overkill rock studio engineers put into their recording work. They could probably get by with one or two good mics for just about everything except for the drums, which, interestingly enough, are the one instrument that is not electronically amplified before recording!

Neil Youngs songs were out when?? About the time when 8 tracks were just merging into the world of cassette tapes.
He shouldn't complain about the quality...he recorded on analog tape.
You folks who worship Neil Young...stay up really late and watch the infomercials and order his greatest hits. Noone knows who he is today...get over it.

I with you Neil, reel-to-reel is the only way to go for the purists like us.

Jul 24, 08 - 11:10 am Comment from: shen

have to agree with MDN on this one, he has some real complaints, but he is shooting the guy in the trenches next to him, when they should both be aiming at the music companies...

and yes, to an above poster, between the middle range loss and the "loudness wars", things have gone way down hill. any ideas on how to reverse that? 256 AAC won't make those go away.

oh and R2? nice useless and mindless over generalizations there. good work. your knee jerk conservatism shines through. now stfu.