MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Dec 21, 07 - 09:22 am Comment from: Ampar

That's the way I like it. Uh huh, uh huh.

Dec 21, 07 - 09:26 am Comment from: Ampar

"'They’ll go to the IT department and say, 'I'm using an iPhone now. I need you guys to support it.' I don’t know of many IT managers who are going to tell the CEO, 'Sorry we don’t support that . . .''


Unemployment means refusing to support the iPhone, bitch.

Expect the number of cardboard signs that read, "W1ll w0rk 4 bandwidth" to suddenly rise in 2008.

Dec 21, 07 - 09:32 am Comment from: El Guapo

@Ampar

Sorry, but it's:

"That's the way, uh huh uh huh, I like it, uh huh uh huh"

Dec 21, 07 - 09:42 am Comment from: Ampar

El Guapo and the Rainy Day Band:
You're revoking my poetic license? Now how am I going to Erato's place for the big hymnfest? Gee, thanks a lot.

Dec 21, 07 - 09:44 am Comment from: Brian Allen

The Outlook or Exchange license is important so that Apple can develop a client to access the Exchange server.

I have to use Exchange at work. But, I don't want my work email on my iPhone.

But, I think Apple should supporting all major mail servers and security methods required by mail servers.

Dec 21, 07 - 09:44 am Comment from: Ampar

"how am I going to get to"

I guess I do need an editor after all.

Dec 21, 07 - 09:46 am Comment from: HolyMackerel

2008 in a nutshell:
1. "They’ll go to the IT department and say, 'I'm using an iPhone now. I need you guys to support it.' "
2. IT department will provide them a Windows Mobile phone for a week with iPhone-looking buttons.
3. CEO returns after 2 days and says it is awful and nothing like the iPhone they got for Christmas
4. IT department reluctantly turns on IMAP or other support making CEO happy.
5. Repeat steps 1 - 4 for the whole board.
6. Impressed with the iPhone, the CEO buys an iMac.
7. CEO goes to IT department and says, 'I'm using an iMac now. I need you guys to support it.'
8. IT department will provide him a Windows PC for a week with iMac-looking icons.
9. CEO returns after 2 days and says it is awful and nothing like the iMac he just bought.
10. IT department reluctantly hires IT staff with Mac as well as Windows experience, making CEO happy.
11. Repeat steps 6 - 10 for the whole company.

Dec 21, 07 - 09:52 am Comment from: MikeK

"Do you think Apple needs to license Exchange from Microsoft for the iPhone to become (even more) successful in business?"

____________

Absolutely. It sucks, but it needs to be done. Without Exchange support, there is a very large majority of business users who cannot easily access their corporate email and that is most likely the single biggest deterrent keeping business users from the iPhone.

Dec 21, 07 - 09:56 am Comment from: ron

Thanks for the correction MDN. I used to manage the production of all the Yellow Pages for PacBell. I was charged up to $25,000.00 for every mistake in an ad. The profit on an ad was around $5.00.
Keep up the good work.

Dec 21, 07 - 09:56 am Comment from: MacBill

Sorry MacDailyNews, but although the iPhone is a pretty decent device right now and many consumers enjoy it, it still can't hold a candle to the Treo... at least until the iPhone SDK comes out & we will start seeing some real potential unlocked.

In the meantime, we have FileMaker Mobile & Pocket Quicken both on our Treo syncing to our Mac. No, not a WEB VERSION of Quicken, but a mobile version of Quicken that actually SYNCS to our Mac. Can't do that on the iPhone.

Furthermore, we can send SMS messages to multiple recipients, we can send SMS messages with pictures, we have copy & paste functionality, we have the ability to expand our storage space with inexpensive SD Media cards, we have a replaceable battery, we can have unlimited SMS messages stored on our Treo (instead of the 1,000 SMS limit on the iPhone), we have a true business-class email client with SnapperMail, we have about 10 other 3rd-party programs & games on our Treo (WITHOUT hacking our phone), we can look up a contact's name with just 2 key presses on the keyboard, we have a real keyboard.

None of these things are on the iPhone.

The Treo is still the smartest cell phone out there, with the iPhone running a close second for those who need less options in a phone right now.

Or, what's more likely to happen, is that IT will give the CEO one of 3.9 million Blackberries sold by beleaguered RIM last quarter, because the Blackberry is a true business device that properly supports Exchange, Domino and GroupWise.

When the iPhone does that we'll certainly support it too.

Dec 21, 07 - 09:57 am Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

Well, my company is so security conscious they are dropping Blackberry support in 2008. Maybe that signals a move toward other technologies, but they still insist that the iPhone will not be supported.

The fact is that most companies use Exchange. If you want your contacts, calendars and email synced with your corporate server, you're screwed because chances are they are not going to toss out Exchange.

This also begs a good question - if you are syncing your iPhone with Exchange, what happens to your ability to sync that same phone with iCal or Address Book? Does that disappear? I think those apps may already be Exchange-compliant, but do you really think you are going to get your IT departments to support that as well (even if it's possible)?

I think we're a long way from being free from Exchange, just like we're a long way from being freed of the shackles of MS Office. That's reality. If enterprise customers want iPhones (which is evident) then it will be up to BOTH Apple and individual IT departments to make full-blown exchange syncing a reality.

One more thing: There are workarounds for email. If you have Outlook Web Mail at work, Google "Synchronica" and sign up for that service. It works with webmail and totally syncs your iPhone email with your work email. So far it's worked for me with few problems. I believe the service is free for now so check it out.

Regards,
FM

Apple does not need to license anything for Exchange/Outlook support. Anyone with an iPhone can gain full Exchange/Outlook support with Synchronica : http://www.synchronica.com

I work in a big telecoms firm with 20,000 employees, and we use iPhones with full corporate e-mail.

Dec 21, 07 - 10:06 am Comment from: ron

Robert Mullins is no longer with Network World. Please send any news items or inquiries to the following:
* For open-source news, contact John Fontana at
* For server and storage news, contact Jon Brodkin at
* For other inquiries, contact Ann Bednarz at

Dec 21, 07 - 10:06 am Comment from: El Guapo

@HolyMackerel

I don't think you'll see much of items 2,3,7,8. IT departments don't tell CEO's what to use if they want to keep their jobs very long.

2008 in a nutshell:

2. IT department will provide them a Windows Mobile phone for a week with iPhone-looking buttons.
3. CEO returns after 2 days and says it is awful and nothing like the iPhone they got for Christmas

7. CEO goes to IT department and says, 'I'm using an iMac now. I need you guys to support it.'
8. IT department will provide him a Windows PC for a week with iMac-looking icons.

Dec 21, 07 - 10:15 am Comment from: El Guapo

Oops! I meant items 2,3,8,9

8. IT department will provide him a Windows PC for a week with iMac-looking icons.
9. CEO returns after 2 days and says it is awful and nothing like the iMac he just bought.

Dec 21, 07 - 10:26 am Comment from: GizmoDan

Rather than Apple licensing Exchange from Microsoft, why don't we just let the third party programmers write email programs for iPhone after February? Maybe when Microsoft sees how many iPhones are selling, they will want to write it themselves. Yeah, right!

MDN I'll still take my Treo over a Blackberry or Windows Smart Phone any day.

-H

Dec 21, 07 - 10:30 am Comment from: Too Hot!

For the Mac, Apple evaded the need to license Exchange with Boot Camp and virtualization software. Entourage does a poor job of handling Exchange, but it may suffice for some.

These options are non-existent for the iPhone, unless it would become possible to install 3rd-party software that could solve the Exchange issue.

Indirect, web-based solutions for syncing with Outlook are simply not going to make a big difference in my humble opinion.

Dec 21, 07 - 10:46 am Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

@Josh,

Will Synchronica support Contacts and Calendars? Didn't think it did, but I could be wrong.

gk

The whole debate about licensing Exchange is a non starter. Exchange is licensed on the server. If a corporate uses exchange they can still sync with iPhone without putting outlook on the iPhone. As for a Mac version of Outlook, there is one - it is called Entourage and is actually better than Windoze Outlook but it is still not needed on the iPhone.

At the worst case - iPhone support might (I repeat might) need a dedicated server to act as a gateway between Exchange and the iPhone corporate community. That then would put it in exactly the same position as the RIM solution with Hackberries.

On the software front, the iPhone present many interesting possibilities. For example I am about 90% through the process to a successful install of a major Unix RDBMS server on the iPhone (jailbroken of course). Not cos it has any commercial value but just to see if it can be done.

Dec 21, 07 - 10:59 am Comment from: Ampar

Ferf Muckmeyer:

Here's your answer:
http://www.synchronica.com/syncml-demos/demos.html

Dec 21, 07 - 11:32 am Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

@Ampar,

Thanks for the link! That is what I thought - email only. That's not going to be enough for most. Reason being is if you want to set up a meeting or concall and check availability, etc, you can't do that now.

I believe the iPhone will get there in good time. It's just too popular of a smartphone and Apple will have to make some kind of tie-in to Exchange. I know many of you could care less about this, but that's reality in the enterprise. I don't like it any more than the next guy.

fm

The reason Entourage does a poor job of supporting Exchange is because it hasn't been updated in like 4 years. Give MS a break, they are a big lumbering company that just can't change gears as fast as our nimble fruit.

Let's bitch about Entourage AFTER they come out with a new version in January and it still doesn't sync up Tasks to the Exchange server properly.

Dec 21, 07 - 11:43 am Comment from: stormy

What's wrong with a Ford Pinto? I had one, put a 302 in it, big tires.....great little car as long as you did't get hit in the rear!

Sorry for going off subject.

Might not be an issue much longer. From TUAW:

Even if iPhones are further into the enterprise market than some might think (or desire), the lack of native non-IMAP support for Exchange accounts on the device has given some users and their IT departments pause. While there are some solid third-party options coming along (Visto and SyncML among others), only an Apple-blessed solution is going to satisfy in the end. Is there progress on the home front? Chadwick sent along a link via ModMyiPhone.com to an Apple job posting for a QA engineer:

The iPhone Quality team is looking for a motivated, highly-technical Exchange test/sync engineer with excellent problem solving and communication skills. You will join a dynamic team responsible for qualifying the latest iPhone products. Your focus will be testing Exchange and Outlook functionality with Apple's innovative new phone. The successful candidate will complete both documented and adhoc testing to ensure high quality releases.

Hiring a QA engineer implies that the Exchange connector code under development is getting ready for testing and release. Could an Exchange hookup for the iPhone be coming in time for Macworld Expo? Dee-lightful.

Dec 21, 07 - 12:02 pm Comment from: Cubert

HEY!!! KC and the Sunshine Band kick @$$!!!

Dec 21, 07 - 12:22 pm Comment from: DLMeyer

I was under the impression that the iPhone ran "OSX", a complete version. Why can't they stuff in Parallels? Not a "real" version of OSX? Or, not a "full" version?

When the C?O goes to IT and says "I have an iPhone now. Support it", they will plead for a couple of days to get a workable implementation in place and then keep it quiet. Same thing for a C?O buying a Mac, except they'll need maybe a couple of weeks. Not because it's hard, but because they a) don't believe how easy it is and b) don't want it to be job-endingly easy. Either scenario, they will tell the rank-and-file "We don't support Macs" "Period" "Did you not hear me?" "What part of NO do you not understand?" Eventually they'll say that to a VP who has a C?O's ear and ... things change.

Dec 21, 07 - 12:25 pm Comment from: Ampar

If it wasn't for platform shoes, many of you would never have been born. That and Barry White's music.

Dec 21, 07 - 12:28 pm Comment from: Ampar

Gee, Dave. Your posts remind me of John Nash.

"Want hard? Easy. Don't hear no."

Rather than adding a whole bunch of gunk to the iPhone to support Exchange, what about using the infrastructure most companies already have in place for Blackberries?

This would probably require some kind of cooperation from RIM, either to create a plug-in for Blackberry Enterprise Server that would push data in an iPhone format, or to the iPhone itself to support Blackberry protocols.

However, this would gain Apple both Lotus Notes and Exchange support at the same time, for any organization that already has Blackberries deployed on one of these platforms.

RIM would stand to gain more money from additional BES server user licenses, Apple would gain Enterprise support and new open doors to the iPhone within IT, and individual users wouldn't have to pay anything extra.

Just a thought.

If a wide margin ( 72%) of business employees are requesting the iPhone it looks to me like the IT departments have the responsibility to make it happen, not Apple.
Maybe these corporate IT folks need to look beyond the proprietary monopolies from RIMM and Redmond and start embracing open standards.

Dec 21, 07 - 02:11 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Ampar,

You are so wise. Ya know, my mother was wearing platform shoes when she gave birth to me in the back of a Pinto. They couldn't make it to the hospital in time, so my father Barry White had to deliver me. She said he sang to her the whole time and she had multiple orgasms. When born I was 86" long and 2" in diameter. I hate Fords to this day.

iPhone is an overhyped piece of shit for dumbass Mactards.

Dec 21, 07 - 05:37 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Hey Reality Check,

As a card carrying dumbass MacTard, I resemble that remark! I live for overhyped shit! So what'ya think'a that Mister Smarty Pants?

Dec 21, 07 - 06:55 pm Comment from: Ampar

LorD1776:



(LOL at your last 2 posts.)

Dec 21, 07 - 06:55 pm Comment from: Mel Gross

MacDailyNews Take: The same 29% also requested some KC & The Sunshine Band, CB radios, platform shoes, pet rocks, Ford Pintos, an OPEC oil embargo, runaway inflation, and the immediate reinstatement of the Carter Presidency while asking in unison "What's an iPhone?"

Dec 21, 07 - 07:21 pm Comment from: ragarcia

MacBill:

I had a treo and have to agree with almost all your points and add to them that the treo's speakerphone was louder than the iPhone.

Yet, as much as I miss those things, I would never ever go back to a treo. The iPhone is louds better on everything else now and will only improve as times go by.

For example, it was almost impossible to write this post on a Treo. Yet with my iPhone, as I'm doing right now, it is a breeze.

Dec 21, 07 - 07:39 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Ampar,

I hope you giggled, buddy.

Dec 21, 07 - 08:28 pm Comment from: Ampar

Actually, LorD1776, I guffawed.
And I had a MacTard card made up but it's too big to carry.
It's a bit too glossy for my tastes.

And Mel Gross, shouldn't you be yelling at kids to get off your lawn?
I'm ashamed to share one of your names.

Dec 21, 07 - 08:30 pm Comment from: Ampar

"I really don't mind intelligent critical comments . . ."

And that's why we are here folks. But to be safe, shouldn't we run everything by Mel first?

Dec 22, 07 - 12:41 am Comment from: Mel Gross

Ampar, you my have noticed that there are people here who like their Treo's. So, if anything, MDN was insulting them.

If you agree with MDN's insulting, childish outbursts, then you should be ashamed!

If people here want to make posts like the remark MDN made, thats fine, it just shows them to be insulting to other members, but the web site owners should have higher standards.

You don't think so?

Dec 22, 07 - 08:49 am Comment from: LorD1776

Aw geez Mel, lighten up a little. Childish insults are our way of life. It's an American tradition, fer crying out loud. Don't you remember from history class some of the insults hurled at poor King George by our rebellious Founding Fathers? One of my favorites was "King Boy George wears French panties!" That was actually the thing that sent him over the edge. More British troops were sent, the battle of Bunker Hill ensued , etc. And history was made, Mel. We would not exist as a nation if not for childish insults. Remember that the next time you feel like chastising MDN - a bastion of patriotism and defenders of the American Way of Life. Amen.

Dec 22, 07 - 12:50 pm Comment from: Mel Gross

Lor, truthfully, it's hard to see which way you're going on this.

My only real point here is that the teacher in that class never came out with those insults, except, possibly, to teach the historical nature of it.

I know that many of the fan websites are run by high schoolers, or those who have recently made it to college, so that these kinds of things have to be expected from some of them, but still, it's an insult to those of us who happen to have these devices ourselves, and who are readers of the site.

If I hated the site, I wouldn't be here, remember that. But, sometimes, it's a bit embarrassing, when others I know from other sites say they came here, and felt that it was a bad example.

I just think that whoever is writing for the site itself, should try to tighten up on the editorials, because, often, they are really silly, at best.

Dec 22, 07 - 12:52 pm Comment from: Mel Gross

Oh, I wanted to add, that it's better that a longtime Mac user, and someone who has a fair amount of Apple stock, say these things, then some PC user who happens to swing by the site.

Dec 22, 07 - 01:26 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Mel,

"Lor, truthfully, it's hard to see which way you're going on this."

Tell me about it. I'm bipolar - even I don't know what in the world I'm talking about. If you read a few more of my posts you will see.

But I understand where you are coming from. There have been times that the MDN take has seemed juvenile and idiotic to me also. But I think those kind are in the minority.

Most I find humorous. But maybe it's just because I am such a staunch supporter of Apple, and we have been the downtrodden for so long, that I overlook what may seem going overboard to others.

But you must (maybe?) admit, it does make for a rather lively site. Of course, half the time (or more) the comments from people like me have absolutely nothing to do with Macs, Apple or anything within the industry.

And true, we Mac faithful should be more than willing to listen to and accept each others right to their own opinion. If some of my snide comments seem inappropriate, feel free to let me know. I mean, what can I do, worse than make a childish remark? Peace be with you, Mel.

Dec 22, 07 - 02:03 pm Comment from: Mel Gross

I agree with what you've said.

What I would really like to see, is a greater indication that those who run this site actually care about what we have to say.

Possibly, that happened with my complaints, echoed by some others, about the "—Again" added to every single article about Apple's price hitting a new high. That became very tedious. They never wrote "Apple stock drops—Again". So, hopeful that's a small sign.

But, they would do well to join our discussions sometimes, as happens on every other site I've ever been on.

But, somehow, this has less of a feeling of a forum that other sites.

Dec 22, 07 - 03:08 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Mel,

I never really thought about that. But that would make it a lot more interesting. A little one-on-one with MDN. Of course, once the trolls found out it would probably turn into a major flamefest.
I guess if we (the Mac faithful) had the willpower to ignore them it might work. But it sure is hard for me sometimes. Especially after I come home tired from work and the little dirtballs are at it. It's like having a nagging migraine that won't go away. Sometimes I wish only people with a .Mac account could join, but that would alienate some of our brethren. Oh well.

Dec 22, 07 - 05:54 pm Comment from: Mel Gross

You should also come to Appleinsider. we have some good (long) discussions there.

Dec 22, 07 - 08:02 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Mel,

Thanks, I will give it a try.