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F*ck 'em!! They created their own mess through horrible management. If there is one thing American politics needs it's some accountability!

Like the Electoral College Mr. Reagan?

Ronald Reagan was awesome! This democrat group is going to be beyond terrible. Very scary times.

Dec 17, 08 - 10:14 am Comment from: MaLvado

Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem.
-Reagan

Dec 17, 08 - 10:15 am Comment from: MrMcLargeHuge

MDN:

Love the take. Love the quote.

It's just sad that however appropriate or true that quote may be, these boards are going to be filled with left-wing jabs because of who said it.

download tax? hahahaha

hey my american cousins, you are paying for wasted money through these taxes. car company bailouts.. hahaha. i swear, if this goes through, i will point at all americans and laugh in their faces. not even in canada, where we get raped for taxes, would this slide.

time to pick up those guns you guys love to keep in your home and start another revolution.

Dec 17, 08 - 10:19 am Comment from: MrMcLargeHuge

It sounds like the governor wants to tax any kind of entertainment. The tax on soda (a so-called obesity tax) makes me wonder if personal responsibility will ever make a comeback in America. Probably not, given which party has just won the election. Government handouts for everyone!! :(

Ok, MikeR, Electoral College is needed so the small states count. Without them, a candidate only has to carry CA, IL, NY, and TX. Not that mob rule doesn't have its appeal... if you're on the side of the majority. But I mention that in passing.

iPod Tax, nifty, with Sugar Soda Tax upped tax on Cigarettes... I did not see that coming (pun intended.) But hey, that's the CHANGE you asked for.

MW: future ... bleak

Dec 17, 08 - 10:23 am Comment from: Wandering joe

great take, but most of the really negative comments will probably come right of center, not left.
It's funny watching these boards from the outside. The lefties make a bunch of comments, but the really nasty ones seem to come from a few, but very vocal rightwing posters. (usually anonymous too)

Dec 17, 08 - 10:25 am Comment from: Ugh.

@Peruchito: you don't live here. Until you do, keep your third-world comments to yourself.

@Ugh,

how do you assume that i am from a third world country? haha.

@MrMcLargeHuge

1. obesity tax - that would actually help americans from what i saw, especially in the 'fat states'.
2. i love your name.

Dec 17, 08 - 10:35 am Comment from: pastrychef

This bastard also wants to tax all non-diet sodas!?! WTF?

Sounds like it's Giuliani time!

Dec 17, 08 - 10:46 am Comment from: MacintoshSoftwareList.com

I see you read the Drudge Report MDN.

Dec 17, 08 - 10:49 am Comment from: ron

You haven't seen anything yet. Just wait for 'The Messiah' to start with his taxes next year. Socialized everything. Take from the rich and workers and spend it on layabouts.

Dec 17, 08 - 10:52 am Comment from: Think

Government at it's finest.

Economy slows down,
we the people cut back on spending cause we don't have it.

They the government actually increase their spending and then bitch about the fact they have less money. So lets tax the taxpayers more.

Hope NY implodes.

freakin liberals. won't be happy until all freedom is gone.

< pickfight >

the soda tax makes sense though. americans are fat

< / pickfight >

Dec 17, 08 - 11:08 am Comment from: Wingsy

I was going to go on vacation last summer and drive to NYC for some sightseeing. Once I found out that they are charging $17 just for the "privilege" of driving my car through Manhattan, I changed plans to avoid NYC at all costs. And I thought NC was run by a bunch of money-hungry politicians (oh, they still are).

Dec 17, 08 - 11:11 am Comment from: stmix

MDN: How 'bout spending more of the Oil Companies' money? Oh sorry, how Socialist of me. Interesting that spending and big Government always increase during supposedly prudent Republican regimes. Don't forget, the economy SUCKED during Reagan. Rich people got richer, though.

Dec 17, 08 - 11:17 am Comment from: MacSmiley

I moved to South Dakota 15+ years ago. All the states are hurting, but sales tax in NYC was 8.5 % in Manhattan when I left. Suffolk County was 8.25%. What's the NY sales tax now??

The economy sucked because of Carter. Reagan turned it around. Reagan was the best modern president, period.

Dec 17, 08 - 11:26 am Comment from: Predrag

Wingsy,

I'm not sure where the $17 figure came from, but for the past (at least) 18 years (since I've lived here), the only way to get into Manhattan was to cross some water (remember, it's an island). Majority of those water crossings are toll bridges or tunels, although not all of them. Crossings from New Jersey are all toll (not sure how much today; I believe some $6 off-peak, but only NY-bound; on your way back, you don't pay). Crossings from the Bronx (i.e. points north, such as Connecticut, Massachussetts, etc) are free (except one toll bridge). With Queens and Brooklyn, there are free bridges and toll tunnels.

Other than an ordinary toll, there are no other charges for driving into the city, although, as someone who lives in Manhattan, I had supporded current republican mayor's effort to institute the congestion charges. You would be too if you were trying to move around your town and couldn't because its streets were congested by cars from neighbouring counties and states (NJ, CT, upstate NY and Long Island).

For the past fifteen years, NYC has had republican mayors (and the state has had a republican governor for the most of that period).

Dec 17, 08 - 11:30 am Comment from: Toasty

Why do liberals always have to take such a beating when some democrat asshat like this guy proposes something so stupid? Just because someone isn't conservative through and through, it doesn't make them a "layabout" or in league with this moron.

This guys new taxes will do nothing to help because he is taxing a lot of things people will just give up to save money. It's not going to do anything but cause people to pirate more and crush the sales of companies that are already struggling. When people say this guy is blind, they are not talking about his eye sight.

Dec 17, 08 - 11:39 am Comment from: MrScrith

@Wandering joe

After looking at the comments below yours I must sadly agree, and I'm a conservative... fricken nutjobs giving us a bad name...

Dec 17, 08 - 11:41 am Comment from: Predrag

So easy and effortless to slam a governor for taxing in order to bridge the deficit. Let's look at some numbers, though, to put this in proper political perspective.

A republican governor took over in 1995. For the next ten years, his annual budget increases were on the average of 5-6%.

Compare that to 0.5% requested increase by the current (democrat) governor.

On the other hand, about 20% of all tax revenue in the state of New York comes from the Wall Street financial sector (no surprise there, considering the mind-boggling amounts of money changing hands there and generating enormous wealth for a selected few). As we all know, that revenue has dramatically dropped over the past few months. Rather than create a budget deficit (common practice of elected officials from another party), this government tried to figure out how to close the gap. Keep in mind, though, his increase of 0.5% is realistically a decrease in real money (adjusted for cost-of-living). One other thing; this governor came to office as a successor to Elliott Spitzer (the guy who hired escort service for official business...)

Feel free to argue how the previous governor was better...

As a resident of a US state which is not New York, I request that, instead of of leaving that state and spreading your messed-up political views around, stay there and wallow in your own mess.

Dec 17, 08 - 11:56 am Comment from: Predrag

Farlo,

I'm not sure which state you're referring to (plenty of them with their own mess), but I agree; way too many people from those states that are not New York have come to New York, spreading their messed-up political views and burdening NY economy. I remember time when I could rent a 3-bedroom apartment in Manhattan for $2,000 (and it wasn't that long ago). Today, you'd be lucky to find one for $10,000 (per month).

One more thing; in this budget proposal, the governer is also asking to cut a number of state agencies (and therefore, state jobs). Many of the services are also being cut.

@Farlo

I agree, I live in NJ and these people have completey ruined this state as well. I said it once I'll say it again, one day the libs will tax the air we breathe, lol.

What about spending less in "number 19" or what number was that woman in NY ? remember?

OK all you free market right wingers, is there anything that belongs in the "public realm" ? Shall we give up public roads and have the fees for toll roads paid to (possibly even foreign) investors who take ownership of the roads?
This is in theory a government of by and for the people. Therefore taxes dollars (if attentive intelligent citizens make sure this is a government of, by and for the people) are in fact being directed to purposes that benefit We The People.
"Free market" is a term that in the past 25 years since the ordination of Saint Reagan, has in fact meant legalized organized crime by unethical, greed motivated robber barons who have ripped off the USA and the world blindly. Our current collapsing economy is a result of the "let the marked decide" ideology. History shows that to "let the market decide", the market choses extremely polarized wealth distribution and extremes of boom and bust economies, and wars.
Government of "We The People" is needed to check unbridled murderous greed of individuals (plenty of wars have been waged for the profits to be had; Halliburton and Iraq anyone?) who have no problem harming and hurting others be it animals, people or entire ecosystems , the planet earth even.
Taxes are the price of civilization. And to my fellow citizens here in the USA, if we could all direct even 25% of the mental energy we normally give to entertainment stars and sports teams, and read news from diverse sources, rather than "watch" news from talking heads with agendas on TV, we just might achieve a less corrupt and functional government of "We The People". The ballot box still works, IF we see to it that it does.
Personally I hate seeing tax dollars go to corrupt and or inefficient government entities just as much as I do seeing it go towards robber baron capitalists. Both are evil and immoral, and the way things appear right now, the robber barons have bought out the government. My dollars that depart in the form of taxes, and those that depart into the free market are all going to the same oppressive entities.
Unfortunately way too many of "WE The People" are lazy ignorant sheep, and the wolves are the fat & happy ones, and are running wild.
And anyone who is caught up in the great "Liberal vs Conservative" thought paradigm, well, that is the foundation upon which your brainwashing is built, enjoy your fantasy world while you are being raped.

Since this current financial crisis is the result of 8 years of a Republican administration presiding over the results of "Reganonomics" from the Ronald Regan administration come back to haunt America ... I'm pretty proud to be a flaming liberal!

Dec 17, 08 - 12:28 pm Comment from: LordRobin

Wow. I didn't know so many whiny right-wingers used Macs.

------RM

How about letting the taxes be inspired by environmental concerns.

The New York Governor should levy a tax on *music CDs* and *movie DVDs*, because they
- eventually cause waste to be dumped into the environment
- lots of CO2 is released during their production

However music and movie *downloads* turn out to be environmentally neutral in these respects, so maybe they should get a subsidy or at least a tax break.

Dec 17, 08 - 12:43 pm Comment from: Cubert

Maybe this is all because he's not able to see what bill he's signing?

Although he can see his piece of @$$ on the side just fine.

Dec 17, 08 - 12:47 pm Comment from: sophonik

@ tz

++
I agree. It's easy to blame one or the other (and the other often being ourselves in more instances than we think...) in the comfort of our living room or on this board, and never do anything about it.

And MDN, please leave the Reagan is the best of "whatever" moto out of your site. Your take is so out of context it's irrelevant.

Dec 17, 08 - 01:00 pm Comment from: Grifterus

I'm from a 3rd world country.

I'm also against taxes!!

And I'm for small government too!

Also, I'm not a right winger nor a flaming liberal. I go for the things that make sense.

Believe it or not, there are people with brains in the 3rd World too.

(with all due respect)

@sophonik

I agree with your take on MDN's take. If you don't live in this state, like the author of the article or the publisher of the article, then you're probably not up on how many government services are being cut back at the same time these new taxes are being proposed.

Patterson inherited this mess from a Republican government that did little to regulate Wall Street and relied to much on revenue from it, the same fate as Michigan (my home state) with the auto industry. Now, Patterson has to deal with billions of dollars in lost tax revenue and he's taking both paths -- reducing the size of government and increasing taxes -- to try to cover as much of the loss as he can.

I'd much rather be a tax-and-spend liberal than a tax-cut-and-spend conservative. At least we try to pay for what we propose, instead of relying on voodoo to raise the revenues needed for such socialist things as police forces, fire departments, and schools.

I am in favor of one tax: Every time a politician opens his/her mouth, he/she should pay a penny per word out of his own pocket. The hot air tax.

BTW, I hold dual Canadian and US citizenship and have lived both in Canada and the US (So Cal) and by the time you factor everything in, we get taxed about the same... we get hosed no matter where you live.

Dec 17, 08 - 02:08 pm Comment from: MrMcLargeHuge

@Peruchito

I'm not saying that America doesn't have an obesity problem, it most definitely does. What I'm saying is that it shouldn't be the governments responsibility to make sure their people aren't fat. People should have personal responsibility, something that so few seem to have in these times of blame and litigation.

Ronald Reagan had Alzheimer's,

That's probably what made him such a great Prez

Hey jotaeh?
Am I correct in concluding that yes, Canadians get taxed substantially, but in Canada those tax dollars go to infrastructure, health care, and other things that benefit the people, rather than here in the USA where our $$$ and all the "off the books" debts that our power elites are saddling us with, goes to mega billion dollar projects such as incredibly disproportionate military spending?
President Eisenhower's warning of the military industrial complex have been ignored.

I am a New Yorker. The basic problem is that the State tax revenues come disproportionately from New York City (Wall Street) but are spent disproportionally on supporting rural areas and social programs.

Government is the problem. It is a huge, inefficient drag on the productive class (whoever you judge that to include). It is unsustainable and will ultimately collapse, because, as Bastiat explained, the State is a manifestation of everyone's desire to live at everyone else's expense.

As a New York City resident, approximately HALF of all of my wages goes to the government. I am not receiving "fair value" in return.

"The power to tax involves the power to destroy."
Chief Justice John Marshall
McCulloch vs. Maryland, 1819

As a Canadian just over 1/2 of my income goes to one form of government or another.

For that I get fair infrastructure, adequate policing, a very liberal justice system that doesn't really punish wrong doers, a universal health system that makes all Canadians wait their turn in line unless they are actually bleeding out when they arrive at the hospital, social services so lucrative that makes it damn hard to get off your ass and look for a job and an underfunded and over taxed military.

The majority of our taxes are spent on projects designed to get the politicians in question reelected whether it is at the city/county, provincial or national level..

Socialism is a bitch if you're not habitually unemployed

In Chicago there is a fast food tax, if you eat in or out for city workers to pick up the litter. .25 in Chicago the tax is close to 11%. Daley, Stroger and Blago still broke. Socialism is very close in Illinois. Pensions unfunded, flower planters on major streets and plant watering on doble time (sundays). All the Chicago high schools renamed as accademys, kids still can't read. Now Obama picks Chicago school big shot. Watch out america, if Chicago is the nations envy we are in trouble

There is no fix for this country's current mess. The haves and the have nots will never be able to clean up the mess fully. The gap is growing. History shows that when the gap gets too wide and oppressive, well , the have nots always outnumber the haves. By a lot. Oh well, [A] little revolution every now and then is a good thing.

"Government is like a fire, useful in the fireplace, but if it gets out of its place, it will consume everything you own" —George Washington

"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." —Thomas Jefferson

Voters had their chance to rid themselves of the incompetence in Congress this election, but failed miserably. The people will get what they deserve for their incompetence. Let the nightmare begin.

Dec 17, 08 - 09:56 pm Comment from: bobchr

You know, everyone from both the right and the left relish the receipt of local services but no one ever seems to want to pay for them. The sales tax in NYC was 8.675% last I checked. Certain things that were exempt from taxation in the past the governor is proposing to tax eg, ipod music and movie downloads, hair cuts, etc...

Regan may have made that statement but he didn't do a damn thing about it. How does the trickle down effect help a local municipality pay for garbage pick up, infrastructure repair (roads and bridges) or local public school programs. The wealthy can isolate themselves from such mundane requirements by sequestering themselves in their mansions and paying for their own services out of their own pockets and are often resentful when asked to contribute their fair share by local governments. The middle class right ring tends to have a knee jerk reaction to any calls for higher taxes not realizing that they are cutting their own throats when it come to the very services they and their neighbors have come to rely on. I find the right wing of this country quizically dogmatic on issues of morality, taxes, and the level of government intrusion in our personal lives.

The governor is proposing these new fees in lieu of raising state income taxes. I can't believe that he is the first person in the world to propose a tax on itunes downloads. A typical NY Republican response to this problem would be to sell (privatize) some local government owned asset to close the budget deficit for that fiscal year which would put off a finding a more permanent solution. You then raise property taxes in the poorer communities to fill any future short fall because your poorer communities are less likely to challenge there property tax assessment due to inability or just plain ignorance. The wealthier communities can retain tax lawyers to challenge such assessments. So poorer communities get poorer and richer communities maintain their status quo or get wealthier.

I live in one of the wealthiest and highest taxed communities in New York that was for many years Republican run. Every year they would feather there political bed by requiring those with patronage job to pump one percent of their salaries back into the GOP machine. Government intrude much? They would balance the county budget by selling off county assets (Roosevelt Raceway) now part of an extensive mall system and gated communities. When there was nothing more to sell off they started to cut vital services primarily to the poorer communities. They got booted when their crazy assessment system was deem unconstitutional by the State Supreme court. I rant this diatribe to put a more complete perspective on the issue. The Itunes tax taken out of context is meaningless and a non issue. I don't begrudge someone if they wish to move to the Dakotas to escape NY taxes as long as they realize that the level of services they can expect and the resources they will have access to will be severely diminished there. More people are willing to put up with higher taxes than not to get the services they require if this were not the case then more people would live in the Dakotas. Last time I checked the ratio of population between NY and ND SD is about 36:1 .

Two simple things, folks:
We in NY pay a higher tax per capita, in almost every way, than anyone else. We're used to it, it's not really surprising, and not really a big deal. Those of us who still get outraged have 49 other states to choose from, or can stay and complain, or just smile and shrug and accept it.
The other point is, well, an iPod is a luxury item...it doesn't really matter so much if there's a tax on it... we're all addicted to it, we'll buy it anyway, and that's that. Other luxury items we, as Americans, are addicted to, pay taxes on, and buy regardless: alcohol, tobacco, jewelry, computers, etc, etc, etc... it's a very long list. So, hey, no worries... we've got to pay a little more for something we've already convinced ourselves we have to have... if we really have to have it, then let's hush up and pay up, yeah?
Be well.

Dec 17, 08 - 11:01 pm Comment from: HazMatt

For what it's worth, I'm a conservative who is very disappointed with Bush's economic policies. These days I lump both Republican and Democrat in with the "corrupt politicians who only want to take our money".

Hard-working middle-class Americans like me are over-taxed and under-represented.

The Reagan quote may not be quite accurate (a state governor is not a bloated federal bureau), but the sentiment was spot-on.

p.s. I'm for reducing ALL parts of government, including military spending, just to be crystal clear.