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That's too soon for me

"Imminent, let's put it that way.'"

From Websters:

imminent
Main Entry: im·mi·nent
Pronunciation: 'i-m&-n&nt;Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin imminent-, imminens, present participle of imminEre to project, threaten, from in- + -minEre (akin to Latin mont-, mons mountain) -- more at MOUNT
: ready to take place; especially : hanging threateningly over one's head <was in imminent danger of being run over>

I guess Steve's reference to the Beatle's song "Two of Us" during the dialog with Bill Gates had little effect on gettting this sloooowwww train moving.

They should wait until late 2042 just to be safe.

Without Ringo they would have been the Beat'less.....

Good. Let them stay off of iTunes. Most people who love the Beatles (not I) already have their songs on CDs. Also, Apple Corps tried to sue Apple Inc. They are not deserving of the honor to be on the iTunes store.

Go to http://www.torrentz.com and type in "Beatles". You can get their songs for FREE.

Besides, who in their right minds in the 21st century would listen to the Beatles? Anyone???!!! Anyone???!!! I REST MY CASE.

Bugger off, Apple Corps!!

Besides, who in their right minds in the 21st century would listen to the Beatles? Anyone???!!! Anyone???!!! I REST MY CASE.

Who in their right minds in the 21st century would listen to works by the 18th century masters? Or music performed on a dusty old Stradivarius?

Some things are timeless.

That said, IMO whoever's managing the Beatles is worse than Microsoft. How many times do they expect to resell the same product to the same consumers? The Beatles will always be around, but for now the market is saturated.

It's the 40th anniversary of Sgt. Peppers.

Ah, the Beatles. Two great song writers, a great guitarist, and Ringo. I've been a fan since '62.

I don't see any comment there that says 2008. So I think they will be out sooner.

Who gives a shnickerdoodle?

Well they better hurry. The vast majority of the original fan base will be to old to give a sh*t if they take to long.

agree with "bob"..who gives a rats ass bout Beat - less.

Ringo Starr. The worst drummer in a well-known band in the history of music.

Sh-tles, you don't know cr-p about drummers and drumming, even if you are one.

Hey, "someone" -- Sh-tles is right.

Go take a lesson from Steve Gadd, pal. Or Max Roach. Or Peter Erskine. Or Bobby Colomby. Or Neil Peart. Or the greatest drummer ever to walk the Earth, Buddy Rich.

Unless he was playing the simplified, pedestrian rhythms of the Beatles, Ringo Starr couldn't drum his way out of a paper bag.

Hell, Animal on the Muppet Show was a better drummer than Mr. Starkey.

There have been many better and more creative drummers than Ringo, but he was the right drummer at the right time, and technically he wasn't a "weak link". He was better than okay. Got to give to Ginger Baker for energy and Mitch Mitchell for style and John Bonham for dynamics. For that era and the rock genre, I still think Mitch Mitchell of the Jimi Hendrix Experience brought the most to the party. Jimi Hendrix wouldn't have been the same without Mitch.

I dare ya to put an electronic metronome on any of Ringos beats ...
Even the Great Neal Pert and Buddie Rich werent that accurate ...
Sure, Ringo's beats were simple ... but that in no way detracted from his talent !

Besides .. if you ask a dozen drummers for their top ten list of greatest drummers ... expect to get at least 120 names !

(I betcha Alex Van Halens name wouldnt be on anyones list ! )

oh my said: I dare ya to put an electronic metronome on any of Ringos beats ...
Even the Great Neal Pert and Buddie Rich werent that accurate ...
Sure, Ringo's beats were simple ... but that in no way detracted from his talent !

Uhhh, yes it does.

Starr was/is a serviceable drummer, but he's not anything special. And he never was. Just because you could "put a metronome" on "Ringo's beats" also isn't indicative of anything - - a good drummer should be able to keep time with a metronome very well. Ringo just was never asked to do anything terribly . . . challenging.

As for the others you mentioned, first of all, it's Neil Peart. Second, Neil has been compared to and called "better than" Buddy Rich (not "Buddie"), and Neil himself said that he's not as accomplished as Buddy.

As for some of the others mentioned, it of course depends on what you are looking for in a drummer, but I would agree with Max Roach, and also Bobby Colomby of Blood Sweat & Tears -- who, by the way, Buddy Rich called his favorite drummer.

As for Buddy, he was indeed deadly accurate. Almost frighteningly so. It's arguable of course, but there has probably never been a drummer in his class. He is in a category of his own.

And Starr is not even in the same galaxy.

Al Gore.

I'm guessing that everyone that wants 40 year old shite has it already.

@ TornadoT

You raise some interesting points.. and I agree with most of them...
But .. if you did put a metronome on Ringo, you would see where he did shine .. He had the uncanny ability to (almost) never waiver ... Ringo was a human metronome ..
Most drummers -- even acomplished ones.. such as the ones you mentioned ... would waiver the beat.. Its not noticeable to the general audiences .. and most people dont even care ... and thats ok ...
But to disparage Ringo because he wasnt flashy, like Neil, Buddy and all the rest, kinda misses the whole point of drumming !

While I do admire all the drummers mentioned above, a few other "forgotten" drummers seem never mentioned ..
Such as John Densmore -- Ainsley Dunbar and Carmen Appice ..
(Guess I'm showing my age, here huh ?)

If you're going to have a list of great drummers you must also include Gene Kruper. Kruper is considered by many musicians as having had a huge influence on modern rock drumming. And yes, Ringo was NOT in the same league.

Neil Peart (Rush), John Bohnam (Zepplin), Taylor Hawkins, (Foo Fighters) and Travis Barker (Blink) are all powerful crafstmen. Ringo is a journeyman who tapped his way to fame.

In a way, putting Ringo in this league kind of reminds me of that recent Pepsi commercial that featured Beyonce, Britney and Pink. Beyonce has a great voice, Pink is a belter, but to belt out a song you must have a very good voice. Britney on the other hand was stretching to keep up with the other two. She and Ringo are both competent, nothing more, nothing less.

Krupa was the drum God before Buddy Rich .. for sure ..
but there is (I'm sure, somewhere) some footage of one of the best drum wars I've ever seen ..
Ed O'Shaunnesy (sp?) vs Buddy Rich ... it happened on the Johnnie Carson show ..
I'd love to have a copy of that for my collection

oh my,

I think I saw that on an old clip some time ago and yes it was great. After reading your post I checked all the major torrent sites and it's not listed. I guess we'll have to wait for some obscure dvd that features the world's greatest drummers. I wonder whether Ovation or some other cable channel can help out.

Also there was a black American contemporary of Kreuper who Gene used to say was better than he was. I've seen a clip of his work but I'm damned if I can remember his name.

there are so many excellent drummers that I could list loads. Blues legends Francis Clay, SP Leary, Freddie Below. Jazz drummers Elvin Jones, Art Blakey, Tony Williams, Omar Hakim, Alphonse Mouzon (sp) and the reggae legend Sly Dunbar are some that come to mind. Great drummers all and Ringo Starr wouldn't be any where near my top 50.
MDN magic word-stage
Welcome to the stage some old friends, a Band of Gypsies (Buddy Miles on drums).

All this silliness about drummers started because of a play on words. Considering the times and style of music, Ringo was the perfect drummer for the Beatles.

It takes more than an 82 piece kit and timing to be a great drummer. As with any instrument, knowing when not to play is as important as being able to put down a staccato machine gun beat. You have to perform under enormous preassure, get along with your bandmates, and not die, (thank you, Bonzo and Moon).

Could you imagine a Peart with the Beatles? Sure, he could have tempered his style for their arrangements, but it wouldn't have been him, then, would it? Maybe had Ringo ended up in The Who, his playing might have evolved differently.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Ringo was great, I think he was perfect-like Henley was with The Eagles, Helm with The Band, and Moon with The Who.

Thanks for metioning Omar Hakim, one of my all time favorites. Didn't notice anyone bringing up Carter Beauford, though.

And now, for what I used to call "The Beat Off Competition"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-883034824566325796

excuse me, I meant "The Great Beat Off Commpetition".

sorry for the off beat humor.....

oh my: "But to disparage Ringo because he wasnt flashy, like Neil, Buddy and all the rest, kinda misses the whole point of drumming !"

No worries, and I understand what you're saying. But I'm not disparaging Ringo because he wasn't flashy. I agree that he had/has his strengths. But by implication you infer that Rich/Peart/et al are simply flashy. That is simply untrue. Look at it this way: Who is more likely to have been able to achieve what the other could do: Rich/Peart or Starr?

I'm not disparaging Ringo, but I think it's fair to say that he was a servicable drummer in the right place at the right time . . . and furthermore that he had the right physical "look".

Some of the other drummers mentioned -- Densmore, Krupa, Max Roach, Bobby Colomby, Erskine -- were more than just "in the right place" or "with the right group". They were destined to be drum greats regardless of their career paths. Can you really say the same thing about Ringo if the Beatles hadn't recruited him at the time?

As far as the Buddy Rich/Ed Shaughnessy drum battle on The Tonight Show, here it is, courtesy of YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAM1byb0QI

Note that Shaughnessy hits rim a fair amount of time in this battle. Rich never seemed to even once.

@TT
You always crack me up, dude .. !!

@ Walter Chillum
You wouldnt be thinkin of Cozy Cole, would you ??

@ TornadoT
OMG ! ... thanx for the link !! ... Hopefully, YouTube will get on the H.264 bandwagon sooner than later !!

Now, I gotta figure how to download this !!
any ideas ?

Mr. Oh my: Look here for saving YouTube stuff:

http://stinkbot.com/Tubesock/

Hey, "Ringo Blows" - both you and Sh-tles are wrong; tragically, you'll never realize it. That's OK, you have my sympathy. You don't care about music, you idolize musicians.

Evey drummer you mention loves calling attention to themselves, and that's fine, if that's what the music dictates... the music of the Beatles didn't. NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM could have improved on either his parts or the music of the Beatles (yes, I realize that can be taken two ways).

Some quotes:
Kenny Arnoff -- "I consider him one of the greatest innovators of rock drumming and believe that he has been one of the greatest influences on rock drumming today... Ringo has influenced drummers more than they will ever realize or admit. Ringo laid down the fundamental rock beat that drummers are playing today and they probably don't even realize it. (Modern Drummer,Oct. 1987) . . Ringo always approached the song more like a songwriter than a drummer. He always served the music." (Modern Drummer, Dec. 1987)

Max Weinberg -- "D. J. Fontana had introduced me to the power of the big beat. Ringo convinced me just how powerful that rhythm could be. Ringo's beat was heard around the world and he drew the spotlight toward rock and roll drummer. From his matched grip style to his pioneering use of staggered tom tom fills, his influence in rock drumming was as important and wide spread as Gene Krupa's had been in jazz." (The Big Beat, 1984)

Jim Keltner -- "I will always be there to support him. He's more than a dear friend. He's like an idol. He's everything to me. I still think of him musically every time I sit down and play drums. He's a very important guy to me. (Discoveries magazine, April 1993)

Al Kooper -- "Sgt. Pepper was the album that changed drumming more than anything else. Before that album, drum fills in rock and roll were pretty rudimentary, all much the same, and this record had what I call space fills where they would leave a tremendous amount of air. It was most appealing to me musically and the sound of the drums got much better. What I had to figure out now was what am I going to do to get drums to sound like that."

Buddy Rich -- "Ringo Starr was adequate. No more than that." (Speaking Words of Wisdom by Spencer Leigh [Leigh's note: "Buddy Rich's opinions were as forceful as his drumming. So don't be dismayed, Ringo, he paying you a compliment."])

Me: "Buddy Rich is as overrated as Yngwie Malmsteen." (MacDailyNews, 2007)

And Steve Vai's "better" than George Harrison... and Anthony Jackson's "better" than McCartney. Too bad they all make mostly cr-p music. Well, keep on listening to 'em, and practicing your double permutated paradiddles, slaps and Arabic scales in your mom's basement after watching some instructional DVDs by your fave muso heroes, and leave the music making to real artists.

I am totally beyond caring about the Beatles online. Those twits are only hurting themselves. I wouldn't care if their stuff was only available on 45 rpm vinyl. Of course, I have all their music on CDs already. Oh, and I still have a turntable too.

Hey, "someone" -- Cool down, life's too short.

Some of us care about both music AND musicians, but the original point was about Ringo's ability as a drummer. He was a serviceable player working in the rock idiom, and rhythmically rock is not in the same league as the areas of expertise of some of the other drummers listed by these posters.

Look at those quotes you've pulled (out of context, I might add): Aronoff constantly stresses ROCK drumming. Weinberg, ditto. Keltner, basically admits that Starr's constantly called out as average with his opening sentence proclaiming "support" of his friend. Kooper, founder of Blood, Sweat & Tears, "the sound of the drums got much better". Well, I would hope so.

Ironically, IMHO, Rich's quote is the only one of the bunch that's realistic.

Buddy Rich was definitely not everyone's cup of tea, and he had a big ego. But most drummers as well as musicians believe that he was entitled to it. He was THAT good.

As for "calling attention to themselves", of course that applies to Rich, but then again, he was, ya know, THE LEADER of his band! And I fail to see how someone like the aforementioned Bobby Colomby called attention to himself ... go listen to BS&T;'s historic second album and his amazing work on "More and More" or "God Bless the Child". No way he's a showboat. He DROVE THAT BAND as much as if not more than Starr had anything to do with driving the Beatles.

And you're correct: Not being able to improve on Ringo's playing could definitely be taken two ways. And one of them ain't complimentary. It's true that Ringo wasn't called on to ever do some of the things the others were, but people are just saying that he wouldn't have been able to if he had been.

@ Snare Man
Thanx for the tubesocks link..
It works great ... !!

btw ... I found a few freeware apps Here ... but I can't vouch for them ..

Well, well, well...at least the one-year delay is consistent with Apple's new product release philosophy - If it ain't late, it ain't great!

Looking at the Ringo Starr drumming comments, maybe there should be a competition or something. Set up a metronome to a drum set and compare it to the original recordings. Then compare drummers playing Beatles music.

Or maybe I could go out and sample some women. First put them on a fsck machine that keeps the same beat. Then put them on my knob and see if they like the variation. I wonder what the results would be. Anyone know of any women marrying those types of machines?

Interesting, cool article, made me chuckle.
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http://www.popsoftware.net/

Who cares. Anyone actually listen to the Beatles? I used to back in 6th grade. Now I have no interest in the band.