MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

May 19, 08 - 09:10 am Comment from: obvious

I think we may have reached the tipping point...

May 19, 08 - 09:14 am Comment from: Jay-Z

This is very significant, considering this is the market Apple targets.

I run sound in our church and we finally had enough of our "loaded" up HP laptop with Vista. We were running media shout on it and it kept crashing/hanging up in the middle of service - not good.

We just ordered a loaded up Macbook and pro-presenter.

and another one switches

May 19, 08 - 09:20 am Comment from: occams razor

I'm buying five MacBooks this summer when the new boys hit the shelves. Apple at 14% farkin' brilliant.

May 19, 08 - 09:25 am Comment from: iDon't

I smell anti-trust.

Shouldn't Thur-rot be telling us this data has no significance?

May 19, 08 - 09:30 am Comment from: Cubert

If you factor in all the "sucker costs", most PC's cost over $1000. People just don't realize it at the time when they are knocking paying $1200 for an iMac. Next thing they know their bill is $1500. It happened to a friend of mine despite my pleading before he went to look at computers.

No way Apple will be hit with anti-trust when MS is still around. Apple may have to invest some money in MS, at some point, to help keep them afloat though.

The ironic thing is that by the time you buy the screen, software and virus protection to make these so called cheap PC's actually be able to do anything, you end up spending $1K anyway.

Well, gee. Could it be 66% because everyone else's computers are cheaper? Apple computers are more expensive you know, and this just proves it.

Really, what kind of a statistic is this? I think the cutoff really should have been $1104.79. This is silly. Let's get that 14% number up to 66%.

0 to 60,

Just out of curiosity, what did you do with the machine you replaced? You know, if you blow windows away and install Linux on it, it could still be useful.

-jcr

And the stock is down this morning. I simply don't understand my fellow aapl investor. I suppose the answer is the stock is mostly influenced by traders and jerks with deep pockets who do this thing for a living and have no scruples.

May 19, 08 - 09:44 am Comment from: Cubert

Do people still really think it will take 3 more years for their overall market share (ie. percent of people who use a Mac as their primary computer) to hit 20% as they are predicting?

May 19, 08 - 09:48 am Comment from: Macromancer

"I smell anti-trust."

Then you don't know what that means.

Things are very much on the move.

It's no accident that Firefox 3 will look (and to some extent act) more like a native app on OS X, nor that Open Office is finally available in an Aqua version:

http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/download/aqua.html

Mozilla and Sun know what's going on.

Windows is no longer the only important platform to be on. And that's doubly true for the U.S. market.

66% of the lucrative high end means a good chunk of the most well-heeled people in the U.S. As MDN might have said, cash registers don't go shopping.

Who wouldn't want to be on the Mac when Apple's selling armfuls of gear to the people with the most spending power?

Time Adobe stopped fobbing Mac users off with a slow, inept, crash-prone port of their Flash software. We matter, too. These figures show that.

May 19, 08 - 09:50 am Comment from: Macromancer

"And the stock is down this morning"

Watching what a stock does over the course of 3 hours and making a judgement is a lot like walking outside on any given day, looking at the weather and deciding if global warming is real or not.

These things play out over time, like years, and are reflected in averages, not what's happening at any one moment.

The ironic thing is that by the time you buy the screen, software and virus protection to make these so called cheap PC's actually be able to do anything, you end up spending $1K anyway.

...and then they don't work because they're hobbled with Vista, and you also gotta buy XP.

Imagine an automaker that sold low-cost cars, ones SO bad that by the time you bought all the extras to make them drivable, you'd be into mid-luxury car pricing (and still have a POS).

Auto buyers would never accept such a deal, and it looks like PC buyers are beginning to wise up as well...

May 19, 08 - 09:52 am Comment from: Zune Tang®

Oh great. OK MAC sheep, lets have your delusional, made-up stories about the friend of a sister-in-law who you "switched" and now they are soooooo happy. Don't forget to include the usual "she loves her new MAC, and wonders why she didn't do this sooner" quote.

Try a little imagination already. You MAC lemmings regurgitate the same fish tale and nobody is buying it, just like nobody is buying MACs. I don't believe for a second people are buying overpriced, proprietary, mouse-button and game challenged MACs when they can get a machine running Vista. I can build my own machine for way, way under $1000.

Your potential. Our passion.™

sorry, but this sounds, and probably is, completely imposible !

don't mistake a raise of 57%, of their own sales, as an increase of 57% of market share.

what data is NPD using ?

if Apple had 66% of the +1000$ computer market they would be the biggest company in the world !

By the way ... does anyone know what Monkey Boy is up to in the video on this page?

I can't hear some shouting and see some monkey-like arm-waving (or are they fascistic salutes?) but I can't make out a damn word of what he's saying:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1757

You'd have though he'd have left all this alone after "Dance Monkey Boy" and "Developers", but it seems he can't ...

May 19, 08 - 09:56 am Comment from: Spark

The Trend's your Friend!

"if Apple had 66% of the +1000$ computer market they would be the biggest company in the world !"

These are U.S. figures not World figures. They're also retail figures.

But they're still very impressive.

http://9to5mac.com/node/750

ZT is ZT, but there goes:

I can build my own machine for way, way under $1000.

...just as I could build my own car for way, way under $20,000. And get about the same results.

would be nice if the original article, and this one mentionned it's "only" the US market.

but still, the quarterly results were very good, but nowhere close to something like this, even if it's just the retail market of over 1000$ computers.

IMO What makes it all the more significant is that Apple only has one model priced below $1000 - the Mini. So, basically, in the markets that Apple CHOOSES to compete in (above $1000) it DOMINATES the market right now.

And frankly, from what I have seen in PC's below $1000, I remain unimpressed. Loaded with bloatware, unable to operate, its amazing.

MDN Magic Word - six

Six times eleven is sixty-six

May 19, 08 - 10:16 am Comment from: HMCIV

Holy mackerel! How many people by PCs for less than a grand? With apologies to Mac Mini, what do they think they're getting for their money?

May 19, 08 - 10:24 am Comment from: NCIceman

The key here is the market Apple chooses to compete in. The profit margins, and frankly the quality, of sub 1k pcs doesn't make it a market worth competing in. A sub 1k pc can run last years OS, last year's office apps, and that's about it.

I use PCs too. I use only top of the line parts, they cost about 3k to make, can play the latest games (the only thing I really need a pc for anymore - hello Apple?), and last me 5 years. You get what you pay for.

May 19, 08 - 10:25 am Comment from: alansky

There's a premium market??? I thought all computers were supposed to cost no more than the bargain-basement, piece-of-crap PC's that Apple critics are always comparing Macs with. Now we're getting somewhere!

I was on a plane coming back from Beijing last week and noticed that nearly all of the laptops in use on that flight were MBPs.

The NPD data just confirm my personal observations over the past several years as a heavy business traveller. I used to be the only one with a Mac among those with Dells and Thinkpads. The Macs have been taking over lately. (I haven't seen may MB Airs though).

@HMCIV

I would argue that nearly ALL desktop PCs bought for standard business use (not video / graphics) are under $1000.

The Dells we use cost something like $600, and are completely adequate for running our ERP and MS Office.

However, Dell and HP are not making a lot of money on these machines. Thats why I sold all my Dell stock several years ago and have kept buying Apple.

As a shareholder, I am happy that Apple only has one model under $1000, and would prefer that nobody buys it. I would rather lose the sale and have a PC assembler get the sale than for Apple to make a sale with $0 of profit. That hurts margin %, as well as return on capital, which damages the stock valuation.

It is also just plain bad business, but obviously many managers don't seem to realize this and justify "loss leaders" as being done for "strategic" reasons. That may be true if their long term strategy is to go out of business, which Dell seems to be doing.

When is the slate of usual jackasses going to start filing 'monopoly' lawsuits??

While reading this article my first thought was to that wonderful Bill Gates quote questioning the point of Steve Jobs' return to Apple in '96:

“He has to know that he can never win.”

Never is such a long time, no?

whoops! quote was from '99.

my bad

May 19, 08 - 10:58 am Comment from: Not Bill

@ marcos

It is not illegal to be a monopoly in a given market. It is illegal to use monopoly power to force people to use your other products. IBM got in trouble in the 1970's not for having monopoly power in main frames, but for preventing purchasers from using add on products from any other supplier. Software was not really an issue back then. It was disk drives, card readers, printers etc.

"By the way ... does anyone know what Monkey Boy is up to in the video on this page?"

I'm not positive, but it appears that he is basking in the warm glow of delusion.

-Timbo

Problems with these statistics:
1) What % of all computers were sold that were over $1000.
2) US sales only
3) Retail sales only

Apple still has a lot of room to grow and these are just statistics.

(Kinda like saying Alienware sells x% of all gaming notebooks)

f-n GO AAPL

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

May 19, 08 - 11:20 am Comment from: ElderNorm

People, please take time to understand the numbers.

The important ones are based on current or previous quarter. The number of dead PCs in existence is of no concern.

What shipped last quarter and what percentage tells us where the world is today.

PS, Apple stock down by any real amount = BUYING opportunity.

PS, I love this Apple spell checker in Anything you do thing. I use firefox on the pc and I have to keep jumping out to word to check spelling. It sucks.

en

May 19, 08 - 11:24 am Comment from: British Mac Head

My god Zuney, you think $1000 is a lot of money for a computer. Phew, it's like £500. Frickin' peanuts to throw at something you spend so much of your time using...

Just because there are a few desparate companies that sell loss leaders that will eventually kill their bottom line (unless they stop selling crap) doesn't mean computers should be cheap.

It's amazing how computers are the only technology products where a whole bunch of people like you will just settle for third rate cheap no-name crap or build it yourself DIY kits just because it's cheaper. Your mum not give you enough pocket money ZT? Do you look for the cheapest bargain basement crap when you buy a TV? Or when you buy a car or a kitchen appliance? Surely not!

I'd prefer to buy good quality brand names for my home because I know I will get good help if those products go wrong. I also know that those companies have a reputation to maintain and so they use decent parts which cost them a little more.

Would you build your own home Hi-Fi to make it cheaper? How about putting together a Kit car to save money? Who will support that if it goes wrong?

What a bunch of cheap skates!!!

As far as I am concerned if a computer costs less than £700 it will most probably be crap and bugger up prematurely.

£700 is about $1400 so how much of the $1400 or above market does Apple own?

Statistics... ahh! On Apple stores alone its market share was more than 100%

Apple sells the most, expensive computers.

No news there.

Windows losers have been saying this since Windows 1.0.

For those who are watching Apple's stock, the question is why would you? This news came out late Friday. I responded in the comments section that night. By Monday, it's old news already. Heck, I was trying to remember last night, if I had read a link to the NPD numbers here on MDN, and if not, whether I should send the link. I couldn't remember, so I didn't. Any news that comes out late Friday, is BURIED. So, don't expect a price bump.

What would be more interesting is the UNITS for the categories. Clearly, the retail store units for >$1000 computers is quite small. Nowadays, most desktops appear to be less than $1000. Even laptops are quite cheap. I think they need to redefine the categories to something more meaningful, having the split around $900.

"PS, I love this Apple spell checker in Anything you do thing. I use firefox on the pc and I have to keep jumping out to word to check spelling. It sucks."

Dude, just turn on the Spelling Checker in Firefox in Tools-->Advanced.

Silly, silly, silly.
That´s like bragging that Ferrari has 66% of the car market over $350,000. That doesn´t mean it sells a lot of them.
How many companies are making computers that cost over $1,000? Most computers sell for under $1,000 (except Apple.)

Here´s a new bit of info - in Apple Stores Apple sells 100% of all computers sold in the Apple Stores! Am I impressed?

May 19, 08 - 02:04 pm Comment from: DLMeyer

the other Mark is pretty much on the nose, LiM is pretty much delusional. Maybe. The truth is most Macs are sold a) in retail b) to consumers. If Macs are up to 14% of the overall US market (big CHEER) then they get to maybe 50% of the US consumer market right there. Nearly all Dells and a huge percentage of HPs are bought on-line or over the phone by procurement types who never see but a few of them. So that's a)not retail AND b) not consumers.
Oh ... and most of those cost less than $1,000!
All that 'sober talk' aside, it sounds like Apple is doing a great job of selling Macs. Much better than the PC guys are doing at selling Windows boxes. This is great to hear and I hope to hear more of it. But I seriously doubt Apple Retail Stores will ever sell over 100% Macs.

May 19, 08 - 03:18 pm Comment from: HMCIV

@critic

On the business side, I see your point. On the personal side, I wonder how much the sub $1000 folks like their PCs. Adequate can become antiquated in a hurry.

Just to play devil's advocate...

Hasn't the price of PC's in general declined from over $1,000 to under $1,000 over the past five years, while the price of the Macs have stayed constant. Not saying anything bad about the Mac, as an Apple shareholder, I am happy that they keep the margin up. But statics can be twisted to suit the need.

@ElderNorm


“I love this Apple spell checker in Anything you do thing. I use firefox on the pc and I have to keep jumping out to word to check spelling. It sucks.”

Time to upgrade your copy of Firefox, all versions have done that for a long time now. I wonder if you will love the feature now that you realise every computer can do it?

What this really shows is how important it is that Apple get a couple more sub-$1000 systems. Something like a Mac Mini Pro that has a couple PCI-Express slots for expansion, user accessible DIMM slots (even if there are only two), and a socketed Core Duo CPU for upgradeability. Something like the Psystar but not a complete POS.

Really, they only have three models. The low-end, completely locked-in Mini, the mid-range, built-in LCD iMac, also somewhat locked in, as well as the ultra expandable and ultimately VERY expensive Mac Pro. There really feels like there's a HUGE gulf between the Mini and Pro that really needs filling. And fast.

MDN Magic Word: Products. As in, Apple needs some more diverse products.

May 19, 08 - 11:06 pm Comment from: DLMeyer

nonarKitten, it would certainly be possible to design a Mac midi that would sell for about as much as an iMac while being a bit more powerful and a LOT more configurable - a smaller tower case - but note the price. No screen included, a pair of Core 2 Duos (or one quad?) and room for an extra drive and some serious RAM. It would work for me. But ... it would still cost twice as much as a Mac mini, or half as much as the Pro. In neither case would it drop below $1,000 - not unless you configured it as a stripper.

The question is:

Who the hell is buying ANY PCs for over $1000?