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Yes Apple don't ship junk. but the comparison is a fair one - 2.4Ghz core duo or quad processor; 1GB or 3GB memory; 250GB or 500GB drive. Apple computers are better made, but are pricier. No question.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:06 am Comment from: Ray

Obviously he does not pay his I.T. team. If he did, he would massive cost savings with Macs. Then again a lot of these guys just want to make the biggest department they can so they have the biggest budget in company...Windoze is definitely a key component of such a strategy.

just my $0.02

Aug 07, 08 - 11:09 am Comment from: shen

so it costs $400 to get a better quality larger screen, and get rid of the huge "desktop" server and get a nice all-in-one and get a better video chip.

....oh wait, and NOT get vista. hell i would pay $8-900 to avoid vista.

how is the quality? fun story, friend of mine works in the uni bookstore computer dept. he says they have to reboot 2 of 6 dells every day due to crashes even though the Macs get used more. so they did a bootcamp vista install on one of their iMacs. they don't even shut it down at night but just let it run. turns out the Mac can run vista for about a month before they have to reboot it. a typical dell, 2-3 days.

how much is that worth?

He compared the most expensive of the low end Macs (the black Macbook) with a low end Windows laptop. Really fair comparison no?

Aug 07, 08 - 11:12 am Comment from: jonahan

So the iMac has more yet he's complaining about it being more? I'm confused. Also he's wrong with the specs the iMac has 802.11n not g. What a nub.

"...Wilcox writes, 'If Apple is going to continue its market share gains, or simply maintain that 8.5 percent U.S. share, prices must go down and configurations bulk up. The math is simply undeniable.' ..."

How is that undeniable?
Wilcox really blows it here.
If Apple continues its marketshare gains at its present prices, obviously the prices do not need to go down.

It would help if Joe configured the Dell to at least come a little closer to the Mac standard H/W. I see he didn't mention anything about the fact that the iMac has a built in iSight camera, FW400 and FW800 built in, Gigabit E-net, 802.11n Wi-fi, and Bluetooth. Not to mention the software that is standard on a Mac that Windows has no equivalent to. Macs are easily on par or in many cases less expensive when comparing a more even feature set.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:13 am Comment from: HMCIV

I can't help but notice Joe compared a Desktop system to an All-in-One. I wonder why he didn't compare iMac to XPS One? Oh maybe b/c the XPS One starts at $1299.

Oh and why didn't he publish laptop specs? Anyone? Anyone at all?

Aug 07, 08 - 11:14 am Comment from: MrMcLargeHuge

It's all about the shareholders here. Dell has double the revenue of Apple, and a quarter of the profits. Who's winning there?

macs cost more than peecees? nevAr!!1

must be a slow news day...

The rumor that macs cost more is finally getting disproven and now this will lead to a whole new set of fud from pc people.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:14 am Comment from: OctoberMac

Saying that the average PC costs X and the average mac costs 2X is like saying the average Mercedes costs more than the average Chevy. Of course. Duh. Apple's market space is different than PCs. Is the average performance of the two average points the same? No. You can't compare them.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:17 am Comment from: drz

Another ridiculous analysis.

By his accounting, we would all drive a Kia and dine on bologna, since it just boils down to cost. I had the same silly discussion with a friend who works at Symantec and drives a Lexus but couldn't understand why it makes sense to spend extra to buy a Mac.

My 24" iMac came with 2 GB of ram.
The glossy screen is way better than matte.

Apple don't make cheapo shite... and did you hear the one about the analyst who drowned? The river had an average depth of 4'6"?

Aug 07, 08 - 11:27 am Comment from: jtc

@drz
well you can lead a horse to water.. but you cant make it think

Well, if your friend works at Symantec, it doesn't make sense for him (or her) to buy a Mac.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:31 am Comment from: Bluefin

I have to agree... clearly a fair comparison. I did one also:

2008 New Toyota Yaris: $14,490.00
2008 New BMW 328 Sport Wagon $32,924.00

Both have 4 wheels, steering wheel and are a wagon.

Clearly the Yaris is a better car for everyone.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:32 am Comment from: Mr. Reeee

Why bother with idiotic "opinion" pieces like this from obvious MS shills?

This is a typical "analysis". Spec SIMILAR systems, clown. The Dell Inprison (anagram for inspiron) has integrated graphics, a smaller monitor, no FireWire, no Gigabit ethernet, no 'N' wi-fi, no Bluetooth, no web cam. It won't run Mac OS X ... AND you're stuck with Vista or upgrading to XP.

Oy fscking veh, SUCH a deal!

Okay, the Mac has less RAM and a smaller hard drive. You can add 2GB RAM for a bout $60. Or bump it to 4GB for $100 or so. NOT thru The Apple Store. With the built-in FireWire, you can add a 320GB drive for $150, if you need it.

… now I have a headache.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:34 am Comment from: Mac-nugget

Even if it was true. I would still pay twice the price simply to continue to like my work with computers.

Every time I use Windows, something always comes up.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:44 am Comment from: Lurker_PC

Come on people, I thought we learned not to pay any attention to Joe Wilcox, a known Apple detractor.

Next.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:44 am Comment from: MacIrish

It seems NPD wants to 'weigh' the computers and then compare. So what if the Dell has 4 cores or 2 cores - is anything MS sells for the 'home' set up for SMP?

I assume those figures include windows pc's at the budget, low-end of the market? The end of the market that Apple doesn't cater for. You can argue specs, and yes you pobably could get a higher spec windows machine for less, and yes if you were to accept that you didn't value the extras that a Mac provides you could argue that an equivelant windows PC could be bought cheaper. So what? That's a comparison made on as equal a footing as possible, not one comparing a manufacturer who specifically only targets portions of the market in terms of hardware against everything else across the board. The cost of that $739 dell is higher than the average windows cost according to that, is it expensive? Maybe, maybe not, the comparison isn't accurate in the context of the conclusion.

Mac Laptop: $1515
Mac Desktop: $1543
2 GB RAM: $70
250 GB Hard Drive: $80
Enjoying using your computer without cursing at it and pulling your hair out: Priceless

To enjoy your computing experience, there is Apple. Anything else, you've just got Microsofted, dude.

We all ought to take the 'whole life cost approach'. Why buy a windows crapware and spend £50 a year on anti-virus and other such stuff when you needn't bother with a mac.

We can't ship junk. There are thresholds we can't cross because of who we are. The difference is, we don't offer stripped-down, lousy products. - Apple CEO Steve Jobs, August 7, 2007

A little comment on MDN take using Jobs' quote above ...
Unless of course we are talking about MobileMe and then it's ok to offer a stripped-down, lousy product (junk).

Aug 07, 08 - 11:49 am Comment from: Demon

So, The Mac has 150% better graphic card (dedicated), A bigger, better monitor, 802.11N WiFi, BlueTooth, iSight Camera, Microphone, Speakers, and digital Audio out, Dual Layer DVD Burner, is 64 bit clean and iLife applications all things that the Dell doesn't have (Plus, you're not getting stuck with Vista Home premie).

The Dell has 3 GB of RAM (required for OS, Anti- Spyware, and Anti-Virus to run) a 500GB Hard drive (required for the 250GB of shovel ware installed by Dell. As a quad core processor and a Dual Core on the Mac( again, required for OS, Anti- Spyware, and Anti-Virus to run is an acceptable).

It's clear the Mac is a much, much better value then the Dell, even without considering the Dell's Expected life is 13 months and the Mac's is 96 months.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:49 am Comment from: Hm...

Quell surprise! What did you expect from Wilcox and NPD? They are known Redmond shills...

Aug 07, 08 - 11:49 am Comment from: Greg L

There’s lies, damned lies, and there’s crap from Joe Wilcox.

You know what they say...
"You get what you pay for"

I have looked at the Mac as the "Mercedes Benz" or the "BMW" of computers.

Aug 07, 08 - 11:55 am Comment from: Anonymous©

Well, the data is the data, it's the interpretations that are interesting. Rather than Joe's conclusion that Apple needs to lower prices, you'd think he'd conclude that Apple's strategy to avoid the commodity PC business has resulted in a thriving business. There's no profit in Desktop PCs, and the small profit in Laptop PCs is shrinking due to competition. Apple, though its hardware is similar is able to differentiate its product enough to make a handsome profit, but to also grow its market share. A case for the Business Schools to study.

it's true, a lot of people are ignorant to the fact that the imac is an all in one machine. i've had friends ask me, "hey, where's the CPU?".

isn't someone going to write in to eweek's editor or something? last i checked, they do technology right? it's embarrassing for them to get the facts wrong.

The reason the study is meaningless is that Apple is targeting a completely different market demographic. It doesn't matter that they cost more money to people buying/considering Apple products, and people already buying/considering Windows systems rarely look at Apple products. They're not really the same group of consumers, much as analysts try to lump them together.

Specs are great trolling material for retarded Mac vs. Windows battles, but ultimately the marketplace decides these things.

Two of the items listed in the specs don't add up for me. The PC had integrated graphics, while the iMac had a dedicated chip. That's not apples to apples.

Also, there's always this RAM comparison that comes up. From my experience, 1 gig of RAM with OS X is a lot like having 3 gigs with Vista. In this case, the software is so much better that it skews the hardware comparison.

BTW, my iMac with 2 gigs of RAM dices through CS3 with heavy use 50 hours a week, including especially brutal use two of those days. I wouldn't even want to try my job with a PC.

No restarts (unless I elected to) for 7 months. Try that with a Dell.

Yes, but Dell Area-51 Alianware can cost 10 times as much as a Mac mini.

Aug 07, 08 - 12:24 pm Comment from: madgunde

Apple tends to shift price points maybe once every couple of years with major product line refreshes, so just after they make a major price point shift they are very competitively priced, but then over the span of the year the Dell's, HPs, et. al. drop their prices a little bit every two weeks, eventually dropping well below where Apple stands. Wait until the next major Apple product refresh and you'll see this get corrected again and the cycle will start all over again.

That being said, no matter how low the competitors drop their prices, Macs always offer as good, if not better, value for the customer for the myriad reasons us Mac users already know about.

The benefit to Apple's way is consumers see stable prices and can feel much more comfortable about their purchases and don't have to play stupid games. That is except the once every year or two when Apple makes a major price adjustment where anyone who bought their Mac a month and a half prior gets majorly screwed.

Remember the product line transition mentioned at Apple's quarterly results conference call? Check Mac prices again after the next quarter and I bet they'll be back on par with Dell (and still far better value!)

Screw em'. If you can't afford a Mac, or if you are the typical dumb user who can't grasp the concept of ROI, increased productivity (less time fixing problems), depreciation and resale value, then please continue to use Wintel junk boxes from Dell, HP and the like and keep using WIndows.

Mac people are smarter - that's reality.

well the study is saying that people who buy macs are willing to pay more while the average person who buys a PC doesn't want to spend as much (either because they don't know better or they can't afford to pay for a more expensive and faster computer.

So the study is valid. I mean, if you ask the average person they'll day they spent less than $1000 for a computer. However, most people who buy macs are will pay more than $1000. Make sense?

Aug 07, 08 - 12:30 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

If it doesn't have OS X, then it doesn't mean shit.

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Inspiron 518




Date 8/7/2008 12:35:55 PM Central Standard Time

Catalog Number 29 Retail 19


Catalog Number / Description Product Code Qty SKU Id



Inspiron 518:
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor E4600 (2MB L2, 2.4GHz, 800FSB) RIE46H 1 [223-9545] 1


Operating System:
Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Service Pack 1 VU31E 1 [420-5769][420-5924][420-6436][420-7622][420-8509][420-8820][420-8873][463-2282] 11


Display:
Dell SP2009W 20" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor with Webcam SP2009W 1 [320-6938] 5


Memory:
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz (4 DIMM) 2GB84 1 [311-8881] 3


Hard Drives:
320GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ 320S 1 [341-7012] 8


Optical Drives:
16X DVD+/-RW Drive 16DVDRW 1 [313-6354][313-6549][420-8152] 16


Video Card:
Radeon HD 2400 Pro Graphics Media Card X24PRO 1 [320-6981] 6


Sound Card:
Integrated Sound Blaster®Audigy™ HD Software Edition SBAHD 1 [313-5013] 17


Keyboard:
Dell Multimedia Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse MMK2USB 1 [330-0915][330-0916] 4


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Modem:
No Modem Option N 1 [313-3137] 14


Wireless:
Dell 1505 WLAN PCIe card with11n mini-Card & external antenna DW1505 1 [430-2761] 19


Mouse:
Mouse included with Keyboard purchase NONE 1 [310-5678] 12


Labels:
Windows Vista™ Premium VPD 1 [310-8626] 750


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No speaker Option N 1 [313-2198] 18


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McAfee SecurityCenter with anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, 30-Days MC930D 1 [410-1160] 25


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Macs aren't expensive enough. Macs should be at least 3x more than Winbloze PeeCees to keep the riff-raff off the platform.

Shitkickers should use Dell.

Still, it's too bad Apple deems it necessary to scald everyone with the configuration options. The only economical way to buy a Mac desktop is to buy base config from Apple and then buy RAM and disks etc from third party.

Aug 07, 08 - 01:57 pm Comment from: GizmoDan

"The math is simply undeniable."

Apple sales are growing at 9 times Dell's, so they MUST be WAY overpriced! Joe Wilcox obviously is not a mathematician. Or an economist.

Visit this site for accurate comparisons!

http://www.systemshootouts.org/

One glitch is Apple doesn't provide a below $1000, mid-range tower with all the expandability options like is so common in the PC world.

Most of Apple's computer options are sealed up or "all in one" devices, even the Mac Pro is getting more sealed up so there is no access by anyone except a "Authorized Apple Technician" to protect the warranty, limited as it is.

This sort of approach is ok for some, but not for the enterprise/business/pro user who can or needs to make internal changes or swap out a part, like a monitor, hard drive, etc.

So to get one's machine repaired requires a trip to Apple usually, a lenghtly and stressful process. Not to mention a SECURITY AND PRIVACY ISSSUE because the hard drive is not removable like it is on most PC's.

I wish Apple would get with the program and allow all their computers hard drives to be removed by the user.

Aug 07, 08 - 02:17 pm Comment from: Big Al

The PC has 200,000 or so pieces of malware that the Mac cannot run. Don't give me this bullshit about the Mac running more software than the PC.

@Pete

You got it. The article's comparision OS was Home Premium. You gotta compare Leopard with Vister Ultimate, not Vister Home anything. Adding Vister Ultimate adds a couple hundred dollars. (But what do you get...?)

@Big Al

The Mac can run everything a PC can. A Mac is a computer. You're thinking OSX which can not, natively, run everything. But a Mac can because it can run Windows and Linux as well as OSX.

Aug 07, 08 - 03:03 pm Comment from: Sir Gill Bates

I agree that Apple's prices for hard drives and RAM are a rip-off, and I also wouldn't mind so much if it was easy to replace these items yourself.

I would like to put a higher capacity hard drive in my iBook, but it literally has to be torn to pieces to do it. At least the MacBooks aren't like that, but that could change with a future redesign.

I think if they are going to design something like the MacMini that is so user unfriendly, then they should at least ALL come with the maximum amount of RAM.

And like Raving MacHead mentioned, even the Mac Pro is a pain with it's compartmentalized labyrinth of shields and barriers. It looks sweet, but is it really necessary?

Who knows, maybe someday they will be totally sealed like a disposable Bic lighter. End of rant.

Aug 07, 08 - 03:06 pm Comment from: elgruga

I understand that a major airline was offered brand new planes from Russia at a third of the price of Boeings, but when they realised that the planes would crash a lot, they saw the error of their ways.

If the sticker price is all you look at, you deserve your fate.

Like most here, I would PAY at least $1000 to never see frickin Wincrap ever again.

I'm writing this on a Quad core pentium machine with two Nvidia 8600 GT graphic cards in an SLI configuration, 4 gigabites of RAM, all mounted on an Asus motherboard and housed in a beautiful sheer black contoured aluminium case. It run Windows Vista that purrs as sweetly as a milk-fed pussy and loads programs in less than a blink. I bought if five months ago from Mesh in the UK and have never had a single crash, and guess what, Mactards, it cost the same as a mid-price iMac. You wanna a BMW...fine. I'll stick with my Porsche at the same price.

Aug 07, 08 - 03:14 pm Comment from: elgruga

Just read all the whining about removable hard drives and all the other crap about the famed 'headless imac' etc.

I hope Apple does EXACTLY what they want, because customers, en masse, (as anyone in business knows), are the biggest IDIOTS ever made and if you had a customer-driven design, it would be a serious cluster-fuck of a mess.

Just buy the computer and USE it - none of you have the technical expertise or wherewithal to design your own computer, so stop pretending you do.

If you think I am wrong, no doubt you will spend the week-end bolting together some Frankenstein mess of a Linux box while your bored wife is having it off with the neighbour who owns a Mac and doesnt whine.....

As for replacing the drive in an old iBook, there simple instructions on MacFixit.com, and it will take about an hour to do.

Pick a calm day, get your wife or GF to help, and feel like a mensch when you have upgraded.
Is that so tough for the 'Entitlement Society' we have created?

If it is, then you know who you are and what you are capable of....

Aug 07, 08 - 03:17 pm Comment from: elgruga

@ Little John:

You are seriously lost - seek help quickly.

Vista purrs like a kitten? Thats just BOLLOCKS and you know it.

Fsckin Trolls.....