On Tuesday, eWeek’s Joe Wilcox contacted Stephen Baker, NPD’s vice president of industry analysis, about computer average selling prices (ASP) at retail.
“The ASP for Mac desktops is more than $1,000 greater than for Windows PCs, and Mac desktop ASPs were higher in June than they were two years ago,” Wilcox reports.
Wilcox writes, “Here’s how the midrange iMac and Dell Inspiron 518 compare, based on Apple Store and Dell online pricing:”
Apple iMac: $1,199; 2.4GHz Intel Core Duo processor, 20-inch widescreen display (integrated), 1GB DDR memory, 128MB ATI Radeon HD 2400 XT graphics, 250GB hard drive, 8x double-layer DVD burner, Bluetooth 2.1, 802.11 g Wi-Fi, Webcam and Mac OS X 10.5.
Dell Inspiron 518: $739 (after $150 instant savings); 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Quad processor, 19-inch widescreen monitor, 3GB DDR memory, Intel GMA X3100 graphics, 500GB hard drive, 8x DVD burner and Windows Vista Home Premium Service Pack 1.
MacDailyNews Note: As our readers will most certainly point out below, there’s a lot wrong with Joe’s comparison. Not the least of which is: Dell’s Inspiron 518 is a plastic tardbox with a separate monitor. Doesn’t Dell make an all-in-one to compare to Apple’s all-in-one iMac? Oh, yes, they do. It’s called the XPS One and it starts at $1299. For comparison shoppers: that’s $100 more than Apple’s iMac. The fact is, when you do it right, Apple Macs often cost less than “comparable” PCs.
Now that we have a valid comparison, please see these related articles:
• Mossberg recommends Apple iMac over Dell XPS One for several reasons – December 27, 2007
• CNET reviews Dell XPS One: Outclassed by Apple’s iMac – November 17, 2007
And, be careful with Dell’s online price quotes, Joe: Beleaguered Dell engaged in repeated misleading, deceptive and unlawful business conduct, judge says – May 28, 2008
Wilcox asks, “Which would you choose?”
Full article here.
[Thanks to MacDailyNews Reader “Mike from Atlanta” for the heads up.]
Obviously, any knowledgeable, thinking personal computer user would choose the Mac, Joe.
Comparing spec sheets is certainly a consideration, but it leaves out so many important things that it cannot and should not be used as the sole basis for making any buying decision. Other factors are at least as or more important, such as:
• Which operating systems the machine can run: Macs are OS-unlimited, Dell et al. are OS-limited: no Mac OS X for you)
• Which software the machine can run: Macs can run all the world’s software, Dell et al. cannot: no iLife, Final Cut, etc. for you)
• How much the machine costs you over time: Anti-virus subscriptions, support, repairs, wasted time, frustration, annual wipe and reinstall Windows, etc.: no fun for you)
Apple chooses not compete on the low end for a reason. Their shareholders expect healthy margins and Apple does not want to sully their reputation for quality:
We can’t ship junk. There are thresholds we can’t cross because of who we are. The difference is, we don’t offer stripped-down, lousy products. – Apple CEO Steve Jobs, August 7, 2007
That’s why comparing average selling prices is a meaningless game. It like comparing the average menu price of a 5-star restaurant to that of McDonald’s. Instead, compare similar spec’d systems, factor in the bullet points above, and see if the Windows PC offers twice the value as a Mac. Twice the headaches, yes; twice the value, no. Remember, most Mac users have made a conscious technology choice (at one time or another, they’ve usually been stuck with Windows at work and/or school) and are therefore better informed than most Windows PC users (who have never or hardly used a modern Mac). Even if Macs really did cost double, we’d gladly pay it while considering it a steal – because we know better.
Lastly, Wilcox writes, “If Apple is going to continue its market share gains, or simply maintain that 8.5 percent U.S. share, prices must go down and configurations bulk up. The math is simply undeniable.”
No, Joe. What’s undeniable is that Macintosh, at current pricing, is already taking market share from Windows. Therefore, your argument is illogical.
Yes Apple don’t ship junk. but the comparison is a fair one – 2.4Ghz core duo or quad processor; 1GB or 3GB memory; 250GB or 500GB drive. Apple computers are better made, but are pricier. No question.
Obviously he does not pay his I.T. team. If he did, he would massive cost savings with Macs. Then again a lot of these guys just want to make the biggest department they can so they have the biggest budget in company…Windoze is definitely a key component of such a strategy.
just my $0.02
so it costs $400 to get a better quality larger screen, and get rid of the huge “desktop” server and get a nice all-in-one and get a better video chip.
….oh wait, and NOT get vista. hell i would pay $8-900 to avoid vista.
how is the quality? fun story, friend of mine works in the uni bookstore computer dept. he says they have to reboot 2 of 6 dells every day due to crashes even though the Macs get used more. so they did a bootcamp vista install on one of their iMacs. they don’t even shut it down at night but just let it run. turns out the Mac can run vista for about a month before they have to reboot it. a typical dell, 2-3 days.
how much is that worth?
He compared the most expensive of the low end Macs (the black Macbook) with a low end Windows laptop. Really fair comparison no?
So the iMac has more yet he’s complaining about it being more? I’m confused. Also he’s wrong with the specs the iMac has 802.11n not g. What a nub.
“…Wilcox writes, ‘If Apple is going to continue its market share gains, or simply maintain that 8.5 percent U.S. share, prices must go down and configurations bulk up. The math is simply undeniable.’ …”
How is that undeniable?
Wilcox really blows it here.
If Apple continues its marketshare gains at its present prices, obviously the prices do not need to go down.
It would help if Joe configured the Dell to at least come a little closer to the Mac standard H/W. I see he didn’t mention anything about the fact that the iMac has a built in iSight camera, FW400 and FW800 built in, Gigabit E-net, 802.11n Wi-fi, and Bluetooth. Not to mention the software that is standard on a Mac that Windows has no equivalent to. Macs are easily on par or in many cases less expensive when comparing a more even feature set.
I can’t help but notice Joe compared a Desktop system to an All-in-One. I wonder why he didn’t compare iMac to XPS One? Oh maybe b/c the XPS One starts at $1299.
Oh and why didn’t he publish laptop specs? Anyone? Anyone at all?
It’s all about the shareholders here. Dell has double the revenue of Apple, and a quarter of the profits. Who’s winning there?
macs cost more than peecees? nevAr!!1
must be a slow news day…
The rumor that macs cost more is finally getting disproven and now this will lead to a whole new set of fud from pc people.
Saying that the average PC costs X and the average mac costs 2X is like saying the average Mercedes costs more than the average Chevy. Of course. Duh. Apple’s market space is different than PCs. Is the average performance of the two average points the same? No. You can’t compare them.
Another ridiculous analysis.
By his accounting, we would all drive a Kia and dine on bologna, since it just boils down to cost. I had the same silly discussion with a friend who works at Symantec and drives a Lexus but couldn’t understand why it makes sense to spend extra to buy a Mac.
My 24″ iMac came with 2 GB of ram.
The glossy screen is way better than matte.
Apple don’t make cheapo shite… and did you hear the one about the analyst who drowned? The river had an average depth of 4’6″?
@drz
well you can lead a horse to water.. but you cant make it think
Well, if your friend works at Symantec, it doesn’t make sense for him (or her) to buy a Mac.
I have to agree… clearly a fair comparison. I did one also:
2008 New Toyota Yaris: $14,490.00
2008 New BMW 328 Sport Wagon $32,924.00
Both have 4 wheels, steering wheel and are a wagon.
Clearly the Yaris is a better car for everyone.
Why bother with idiotic “opinion” pieces like this from obvious MS shills?
This is a typical “analysis”. Spec SIMILAR systems, clown. The Dell Inprison (anagram for inspiron) has integrated graphics, a smaller monitor, no FireWire, no Gigabit ethernet, no ‘N’ wi-fi, no Bluetooth, no web cam. It won’t run Mac OS X … AND you’re stuck with Vista or upgrading to XP.
Oy fscking veh, SUCH a deal!
Okay, the Mac has less RAM and a smaller hard drive. You can add 2GB RAM for a bout $60. Or bump it to 4GB for $100 or so. NOT thru The Apple Store. With the built-in FireWire, you can add a 320GB drive for $150, if you need it.
… now I have a headache.
Even if it was true. I would still pay twice the price simply to continue to like my work with computers.
Every time I use Windows, something always comes up.
Come on people, I thought we learned not to pay any attention to Joe Wilcox, a known Apple detractor.
Next.
It seems NPD wants to ‘weigh’ the computers and then compare. So what if the Dell has 4 cores or 2 cores – is anything MS sells for the ‘home’ set up for SMP?
I assume those figures include windows pc’s at the budget, low-end of the market? The end of the market that Apple doesn’t cater for. You can argue specs, and yes you pobably could get a higher spec windows machine for less, and yes if you were to accept that you didn’t value the extras that a Mac provides you could argue that an equivelant windows PC could be bought cheaper. So what? That’s a comparison made on as equal a footing as possible, not one comparing a manufacturer who specifically only targets portions of the market in terms of hardware against everything else across the board. The cost of that $739 dell is higher than the average windows cost according to that, is it expensive? Maybe, maybe not, the comparison isn’t accurate in the context of the conclusion.
Mac Laptop: $1515
Mac Desktop: $1543
2 GB RAM: $70
250 GB Hard Drive: $80
Enjoying using your computer without cursing at it and pulling your hair out: Priceless
To enjoy your computing experience, there is Apple. Anything else, you’ve just got Microsofted, dude.
We all ought to take the ‘whole life cost approach’. Why buy a windows crapware and spend £50 a year on anti-virus and other such stuff when you needn’t bother with a mac.
We can’t ship junk. There are thresholds we can’t cross because of who we are. The difference is, we don’t offer stripped-down, lousy products. – Apple CEO Steve Jobs, August 7, 2007
A little comment on MDN take using Jobs’ quote above …
Unless of course we are talking about MobileMe and then it’s ok to offer a stripped-down, lousy product (junk).
So, The Mac has 150% better graphic card (dedicated), A bigger, better monitor, 802.11N WiFi, BlueTooth, iSight Camera, Microphone, Speakers, and digital Audio out, Dual Layer DVD Burner, is 64 bit clean and iLife applications all things that the Dell doesn’t have (Plus, you’re not getting stuck with Vista Home premie).
The Dell has 3 GB of RAM (required for OS, Anti- Spyware, and Anti-Virus to run) a 500GB Hard drive (required for the 250GB of shovel ware installed by Dell. As a quad core processor and a Dual Core on the Mac( again, required for OS, Anti- Spyware, and Anti-Virus to run is an acceptable).
It’s clear the Mac is a much, much better value then the Dell, even without considering the Dell’s Expected life is 13 months and the Mac’s is 96 months.
Quell surprise! What did you expect from Wilcox and NPD? They are known Redmond shills…
There’s lies, damned lies, and there’s crap from Joe Wilcox.
You know what they say…
“You get what you pay for”
I have looked at the Mac as the “Mercedes Benz” or the “BMW” of computers.
Well, the data is the data, it’s the interpretations that are interesting. Rather than Joe’s conclusion that Apple needs to lower prices, you’d think he’d conclude that Apple’s strategy to avoid the commodity PC business has resulted in a thriving business. There’s no profit in Desktop PCs, and the small profit in Laptop PCs is shrinking due to competition. Apple, though its hardware is similar is able to differentiate its product enough to make a handsome profit, but to also grow its market share. A case for the Business Schools to study.
it’s true, a lot of people are ignorant to the fact that the imac is an all in one machine. i’ve had friends ask me, “hey, where’s the CPU?”.
isn’t someone going to write in to eweek’s editor or something? last i checked, they do technology right? it’s embarrassing for them to get the facts wrong.
The reason the study is meaningless is that Apple is targeting a completely different market demographic. It doesn’t matter that they cost more money to people buying/considering Apple products, and people already buying/considering Windows systems rarely look at Apple products. They’re not really the same group of consumers, much as analysts try to lump them together.
Specs are great trolling material for retarded Mac vs. Windows battles, but ultimately the marketplace decides these things.
Two of the items listed in the specs don’t add up for me. The PC had integrated graphics, while the iMac had a dedicated chip. That’s not apples to apples.
Also, there’s always this RAM comparison that comes up. From my experience, 1 gig of RAM with OS X is a lot like having 3 gigs with Vista. In this case, the software is so much better that it skews the hardware comparison.
BTW, my iMac with 2 gigs of RAM dices through CS3 with heavy use 50 hours a week, including especially brutal use two of those days. I wouldn’t even want to try my job with a PC.
No restarts (unless I elected to) for 7 months. Try that with a Dell.
Yes, but Dell Area-51 Alianware can cost 10 times as much as a Mac mini.
Apple tends to shift price points maybe once every couple of years with major product line refreshes, so just after they make a major price point shift they are very competitively priced, but then over the span of the year the Dell’s, HPs, et. al. drop their prices a little bit every two weeks, eventually dropping well below where Apple stands. Wait until the next major Apple product refresh and you’ll see this get corrected again and the cycle will start all over again.
That being said, no matter how low the competitors drop their prices, Macs always offer as good, if not better, value for the customer for the myriad reasons us Mac users already know about.
The benefit to Apple’s way is consumers see stable prices and can feel much more comfortable about their purchases and don’t have to play stupid games. That is except the once every year or two when Apple makes a major price adjustment where anyone who bought their Mac a month and a half prior gets majorly screwed.
Remember the product line transition mentioned at Apple’s quarterly results conference call? Check Mac prices again after the next quarter and I bet they’ll be back on par with Dell (and still far better value!)
Screw em’. If you can’t afford a Mac, or if you are the typical dumb user who can’t grasp the concept of ROI, increased productivity (less time fixing problems), depreciation and resale value, then please continue to use Wintel junk boxes from Dell, HP and the like and keep using WIndows.
Mac people are smarter – that’s reality.
well the study is saying that people who buy macs are willing to pay more while the average person who buys a PC doesn’t want to spend as much (either because they don’t know better or they can’t afford to pay for a more expensive and faster computer.
So the study is valid. I mean, if you ask the average person they’ll day they spent less than $1000 for a computer. However, most people who buy macs are will pay more than $1000. Make sense?
If it doesn’t have OS X, then it doesn’t mean shit.
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Inspiron 518
Starting Price $1,417
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Subtotal $1,317
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Inspiron 518
Date 8/7/2008 12:35:55 PM Central Standard Time
Catalog Number 29 Retail 19
Catalog Number / Description Product Code Qty SKU Id
Inspiron 518:
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor E4600 (2MB L2, 2.4GHz, 800FSB) RIE46H 1 [223-9545] 1
Operating System:
Genuine Windows Vista® Ultimate Service Pack 1 VU31E 1 [420-5769][420-5924][420-6436][420-7622][420-8509][420-8820][420-8873][463-2282] 11
Display:
Dell SP2009W 20″ Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor with Webcam SP2009W 1 [320-6938] 5
Memory:
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz (4 DIMM) 2GB84 1 [311-8881] 3
Hard Drives:
320GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ 320S 1 [341-7012] 8
Optical Drives:
16X DVD+/-RW Drive 16DVDRW 1 [313-6354][313-6549][420-8152] 16
Video Card:
Radeon HD 2400 Pro Graphics Media Card X24PRO 1 [320-6981] 6
Sound Card:
Integrated Sound Blaster®Audigy™ HD Software Edition SBAHD 1 [313-5013] 17
Keyboard:
Dell Multimedia Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse MMK2USB 1 [330-0915][330-0916] 4
Media Card Reader:
No Floppy Drive or Media Card Reader NFD 1 [341-5008] 10
Modem:
No Modem Option N 1 [313-3137] 14
Wireless:
Dell 1505 WLAN PCIe card with11n mini-Card & external antenna DW1505 1 [430-2761] 19
Mouse:
Mouse included with Keyboard purchase NONE 1 [310-5678] 12
Labels:
Windows Vista™ Premium VPD 1 [310-8626] 750
Speaker:
No speaker Option N 1 [313-2198] 18
Security Software:
McAfee SecurityCenter with anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, 30-Days MC930D 1 [410-1160] 25
Productivity Software:
Special Offer:Microsoft® Office Home and Student 2007 DVHSV 1 [467-5643] 22
Digital Media Editing Software:
Adobe Photoshop Elements + Adobe Premiere Elements APEPEE 1 [410-1168] 66
Top Selling Software:
Sony Vegas Movie Studio 8 Platinum – Easily create HD videos with drag & drop editing and “show me h A1444290 1 [A1444290] 5400
Service:
1Yr Ltd HW WRTY, InHome Service after Remote Diagnosis, 24×7 Phone Support S111OS 1 [960-3249][983-3680][987-6238][989-2110][990-8029][991-1587] 29
Datasafe:
Included 3 GB DataSafe Online Backup for 1Yr DATSF3G 1 [420-7091][420-7092][987-4817][988-0099] 34
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Macs aren’t expensive enough. Macs should be at least 3x more than Winbloze PeeCees to keep the riff-raff off the platform.
Shitkickers should use Dell.
Still, it’s too bad Apple deems it necessary to scald everyone with the configuration options. The only economical way to buy a Mac desktop is to buy base config from Apple and then buy RAM and disks etc from third party.
“The math is simply undeniable.”
Apple sales are growing at 9 times Dell’s, so they MUST be WAY overpriced! Joe Wilcox obviously is not a mathematician. Or an economist.
Visit this site for accurate comparisons!
http://www.systemshootouts.org/
One glitch is Apple doesn’t provide a below $1000, mid-range tower with all the expandability options like is so common in the PC world.
Most of Apple’s computer options are sealed up or “all in one” devices, even the Mac Pro is getting more sealed up so there is no access by anyone except a “Authorized Apple Technician” to protect the warranty, limited as it is.
This sort of approach is ok for some, but not for the enterprise/business/pro user who can or needs to make internal changes or swap out a part, like a monitor, hard drive, etc.
So to get one’s machine repaired requires a trip to Apple usually, a lenghtly and stressful process. Not to mention a SECURITY AND PRIVACY ISSSUE because the hard drive is not removable like it is on most PC’s.
I wish Apple would get with the program and allow all their computers hard drives to be removed by the user.
The PC has 200,000 or so pieces of malware that the Mac cannot run. Don’t give me this bullshit about the Mac running more software than the PC.
@Pete
You got it. The article’s comparision OS was Home Premium. You gotta compare Leopard with Vister Ultimate, not Vister Home anything. Adding Vister Ultimate adds a couple hundred dollars. (But what do you get…?)
@Big Al
The Mac can run everything a PC can. A Mac is a computer. You’re thinking OSX which can not, natively, run everything. But a Mac can because it can run Windows and Linux as well as OSX.
I agree that Apple’s prices for hard drives and RAM are a rip-off, and I also wouldn’t mind so much if it was easy to replace these items yourself.
I would like to put a higher capacity hard drive in my iBook, but it literally has to be torn to pieces to do it. At least the MacBooks aren’t like that, but that could change with a future redesign.
I think if they are going to design something like the MacMini that is so user unfriendly, then they should at least ALL come with the maximum amount of RAM.
And like Raving MacHead mentioned, even the Mac Pro is a pain with it’s compartmentalized labyrinth of shields and barriers. It looks sweet, but is it really necessary?
Who knows, maybe someday they will be totally sealed like a disposable Bic lighter. End of rant.
I understand that a major airline was offered brand new planes from Russia at a third of the price of Boeings, but when they realised that the planes would crash a lot, they saw the error of their ways.
If the sticker price is all you look at, you deserve your fate.
Like most here, I would PAY at least $1000 to never see frickin Wincrap ever again.
I’m writing this on a Quad core pentium machine with two Nvidia 8600 GT graphic cards in an SLI configuration, 4 gigabites of RAM, all mounted on an Asus motherboard and housed in a beautiful sheer black contoured aluminium case. It run Windows Vista that purrs as sweetly as a milk-fed pussy and loads programs in less than a blink. I bought if five months ago from Mesh in the UK and have never had a single crash, and guess what, Mactards, it cost the same as a mid-price iMac. You wanna a BMW…fine. I’ll stick with my Porsche at the same price.
Just read all the whining about removable hard drives and all the other crap about the famed ‘headless imac’ etc.
I hope Apple does EXACTLY what they want, because customers, en masse, (as anyone in business knows), are the biggest IDIOTS ever made and if you had a customer-driven design, it would be a serious cluster-fuck of a mess.
Just buy the computer and USE it – none of you have the technical expertise or wherewithal to design your own computer, so stop pretending you do.
If you think I am wrong, no doubt you will spend the week-end bolting together some Frankenstein mess of a Linux box while your bored wife is having it off with the neighbour who owns a Mac and doesnt whine…..
As for replacing the drive in an old iBook, there simple instructions on MacFixit.com, and it will take about an hour to do.
Pick a calm day, get your wife or GF to help, and feel like a mensch when you have upgraded.
Is that so tough for the ‘Entitlement Society’ we have created?
If it is, then you know who you are and what you are capable of….
@ Little John:
You are seriously lost – seek help quickly.
Vista purrs like a kitten? Thats just BOLLOCKS and you know it.
Fsckin Trolls…..
elgruga,
“As for replacing the drive in an old iBook, there simple instructions on MacFixit.com, and it will take about an hour to do.”
I have previously downloaded the 19 page PDF from MacFixit on this procedure, and that’s why I won’t attempt it. I’m not going to take a chance on fscking up a good iBook for this.
I would love to see your smartass pull this off in an hour. Maybe a technician who has done it before can, but anyone pulling the guts out of their favorite possession is not going to be trying to set a new speed record.
“Just buy the computer and USE it – none of you have the technical expertise or wherewithal to design your own computer, so stop pretending you do.”
And just how the hell do you know that? Unless you have the All-Seeing-Eye-Of-God planted in that sloped forehead of yours, you don’t know shit.
I’ve built my own gaming PC and it isn’t that big a deal if you do the proper research. It’s also a lot of fun.
Why don’t you pick a calm day and shove that pretentious attitude of yours up your pompous ass.
Yes, I hear this crap all the time. Yes, you can buy a cheap PC with a minimum of features, or you can buy a PC with all of the gadgets and it might match up closer with the Mac in price. Gees!
iMac comes with core 2 duo, did he do any research???
Don’t confuse people with the facts!
“having it off with the neighbour who owns a Mac and doesnt whine…..”
But Apple designs whining motherboards into Macs so they do that for you.
It is a fair comparison. Unlike aapl, Dell has a broader line for all types of customers. Currently have a iMac G5 and Dell Q6600 Inspiron. I paid $820 after $300 coupon rebate for a Dell Inspiron 530 with 3GB, 500GB, Nvidia 8600 GPU, 2yr warranty and XP Pro back in March. The quality is not cheap. No bloatware on the HD, which you can delete when configuring a system.
The displays on the current iMac 20′ are crap which is embarrassment for such a premium product. The screen on the 24′ model is much nicer. It’s very true, that the iMac is a bargain compared to the Dell XPS one.
However, what about the market that does not want a AIO, but a Tower with monitor size choices? Dell delivers, aapl does not currently..
I implore you – don’t listen to MDN. I make a nice bit of change every time I fix someone’s PC. Please keep buying Dells and bring it to me when it gets infected. I’m cheaper than most PC techs to fix stupid stuff like that.
OR…. you could get a Mac and F up my business a bit.
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I wouldn’t pay $50 for a Windoze box.
As the resident Mac guy at work, I have enlightened many of my coworkers and gotten them to switch to the Mac. But every few months, some unenlightened Windows sufferer says to me, “I would buy a Mac, but they’re so much more expensive than PCs.” And every time this happens, I pull up the Apple and Dell websites side-by-side and pick two similar laptops or desktops. I go through feature-by-feature and configure the two as closely as possible to each other. And almost invariably, the Apple and Dell come within a few dollars of each other, often with the Apple Mac lower than the Dell!
But as MDN points out, this only works when you compare similar systems, i.e. an all-in-one (not a mini-tower) Dell vs. an iMac. Apple does not sell stripped down, handicapped, junk computers. And they don’t offer the wide varieties of options that Dell or other PC manufactures offer (contributing to Apple’s higher quality ratings and improving the overall computing experience). I’m getting so sick of this tired old “Macs are too expensive” argument.
I was just at a seminar about taking an office paperless with scanners, Acrobat, OCR, etc. Of course it was all in Windoz. The poor presenter’s Vista computer crashed every time he launched Word 2007. I had a MBP running and did almost everything they demonstrated with Preview, Spotlight and Grab — not expensive add ons. Comparing hardware costs misses the most important component. As someone above said, if it ain’t the Mac OS, it ain’t shit.
Instead of “Should You Pay Twice as Much for a Mac?” (assuming that’s true), Wilcox should be writing about why customers are willing to pay twice as much for a Mac. Since Mac sales are three times the industry average, those customers are willing to pay this 2x premium for some reason.
The truth is, (1) Macs do not cost twice as much, (2) the cost of ownership is lower, and (3) the resale value is higher. And there’s a little differentiator called Mac OS X; no one really wants Windows Vista, if they had a choice.
If in fact Macs are twice the price of PC’s, they’re damned well worth it. I currently own a 19″ Macbook Pro, and have owned a Compaq desktop and 2 Compaq notebooks and I have had less trouble from my Apple than any other computer I’ve owned. That even includes a machine I had built for me (a P.C.). There are some program availability issues but by and large the open software market takes care of most of those pretty well. All in all I would certainly say that Apple offers way more bang for the buck, and I am now an Apple fan for life.
Sorry resident macguy, the comparison is fair. aapl does not make consumer towers.
The Dell Quadcore I got for $800 has way better specs with quality components than the $1199 iMac with it’s junk screen.
Lol, comparing swans to turkeys…
yawn
it’s not just the original price , it’s the cost of ownership
pc’s all seem to need loads of help desk and virus and backup junk ( which all adds onto the rrp ) while with a mac you can sort it yourself
applecare is the nearest we get to a waste of money , and i don’t bother with it anymore as all my macs are so amazingly reliable
nuff said
“Macs are OS-unlimited, Dell et al. are OS-limited: no Mac OS X for you)”
Dell and others can run ANY OS except OS X. That’s not their fault. That’s control freak Steve Jobs choice.
MDN Magic Word “truth”
apple’s pricing strategy was just right the last years as most of the readers here have pointed out. desktops are still comparable priced but the gap in laptop prices widens. and though the initial price is just one part of the 3 part total cost of ownership (initial price, cost over lifespan, reselling price), it is very important as a psychological instrument. yes, macs can have a higher starting price (thanks to their higher value and more and more people understand this) but it shouldn’t be too much higher. and therefore i think apple will lower their average laptop prices beginning with the new macbooks and macbooks pro this september. (the lower margin massive product transition they were referring to in the last conference call)
Now from the Institute For The Study Of The Totally Obvious:
Macs cost more than PCs.
And in other news the Institute predicts that fanboys will be outraged by this “Revelation” and will rally to Apple’s defense.
A **much** better comparison of Mac vs. PC hardware:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/apple-mac-leopard-windows-vista,1985.html
Also, these loonies who compare raw specs and prices fail to take into account the value-add of hardware design and unique software. Obviously Mac buyers are willing to pay more for these things.
First – Apples and oranges… everything is status quo…
A good friend of mine does PC service and repair and consulting for a few small companies as well as private individuals. Often, they call and order a new computer from Dell without consulting with him first, and he then winds up having to make it work… This involves a solid day of cleaning all the bloatware from the hard drive and setting up all the critical software to allow the machine to run. Out of the box, most have trouble even connecting to the internet.
Obviously folks are willing to pay extra for Macs – this guy is like the rest of the Window’s world – they can’t understand how to make a profit in this business. They think that huge volume numbers mean high profits, and obviously Dell has disproved this with their profit report.
Only trouble is, Apple does pretty good volume too – and at a retail level. I wonder how Dell’s numbers would look retail to retail?
A Mac Mini is really easy to open up… All you need is a good set of putty knives and a screwdriver once it’s open. Very easy to service the ram, airport, optical and hard drives. Sure it makes all sorts of scary sounds, but it opens up in about a minute. The Mac Pro is compartmentalized for a reason – to make servicing easier. Swapping hard drives is a breeze, as is adding ram – the two things folks do regularly. Adding a video card is also simple… and most of this can be done without tools or much instruction.
I have not tried to open a newer iMac recently, or a Macbook, but I would imagine it’s easy too. Some folks are scared, some folks are not. Some folks work with their hands easily, some folks are clumsy. Recognize what you are, and then pay the appropriate people to do the work for you if you are incapable. Don’t make claims that the machine is the problem – more often than not it is the nut behind the wheel. Often the deluded nut behind the wheel. “Man’s gotta know his limitations” LOL
Steve516,
I was not trying to imply that a Mac should be constructed so that anyone with no experience or mechanical abilities should be able to perform any type of service.
If I had a hardware problem with my iBook and could eliminate the basics, then of course I would seek a qualified technician. I wouldn’t want to mess with replacing the logic board in a laptop, depending on the circumstances.
Now if I already had another working laptop I probably would try it, since I’ve always loved tearing things apart since I was a kid. Or, if I was able to obtain an old model on the cheap that had a problem, I would go for it without any qualms. If you have ever followed Low End Mac you can find all kinds of good stuff about keeping old Macs running. These guys take pride in operating and resurrecting ancient Apple rigs.
A MacMini or iPod or anything else is not easy to open if you need putty knives and have to worry about breaking off plastic tabs that hold it together. There is no reason the MacMini couldn’t have been designed to have four screws in the bottom to retain it. Although from a manufacturing standpoint it probably makes sense to eliminate separate hardware like screws when possible.
I believe that all of the shielding in the MacPro was originally to isolate certain areas for cooling purposes. The G5s had nine fans I think, before they went to the liquid cooling. I would imagine some of the present shielding serves the same purpose, and sure makes it look sweet – much more professional than even the high end gaming PCs.
I agree that the MacPro is excellently designed for installing RAM and hard drives. I don’t know how it could have been done better. And that is my point. Those are the two things that anyone should be able to easily access, just as in the MacBooks.
I realize that it’s a lot easier for the PC makers to do this kind of thing since they don’t seem to care what their products look like. I have a Dell laptop that has easy access to most everything. Just flip it over and start opening the hatches. Even the optical drive pops out. But of course it looks like a cobbled together piece of junk.
I wouldn’t want Apple to go the route of these others manufacturers and end up with same results, but I believe Apple’s engineers are talented enough to design their products with the ability to easily swap RAM and hard drives and still be stylish. I don’t think that I am being unreasonable.
pseudometa,
Thanks for the link. That was probably the most objective article regarding Macs that I ever read on THG. I used to subscribe to their site, but dropped it after reading so much foolishly biased tripe concerning Apple.
I’m afraid the author was wasting his time with that crowd though. By perusing the readers comments you can see that he is trying to enlighten a group that revels in their ignorance. Maybe we here at MDN could learn something from this.
“Often, they call and order a new computer from Dell without consulting with him first, and he then winds up having to make it work… This involves a solid day of cleaning all the bloatware from the hard drive and setting up all the critical software to allow the machine to run”
Sometimes the Dell machines are shipped in barrels of toxic waste or are covered in Anthrax spores. Others just spontaneously explode as they are being unboxed. In other cases space aliens emerge from the monitors and attach themselves to the faces of hapless consumers.
If your friend really exists and if it takes them a day to set up a Dell PC they should 1) feel lucky that they have stupid clients who will pay them to spend that long doing it. 2) Consider a line of work that they’re good at.
now where are those pesky figures on productivity increases gained by using a mac…and all the other intangibles, such as feeling of confidence in the machine and how that effects your work and creativity.
osx makes you waaaaaaay more productive than windows. When I use windows I have to think about how am I am going to do something to some extent, as well as the task I am trying to do. With osx, I only have to focus on the task. Osx enhances ‘flow’, while windows ‘restrains and interferes’ with it. I am unaware of osx when I use it, hence the flow, but I am VERY aware of windows. I’d say osx makes me 20-30% more productive. Factor in an 8 hour day and say $50 an hour. That’d make me $80 – $120 more productive per day! Wow…shame they never include such factors because it isn’t even close then. Mac + OSX = MUCH, MUCH better value
“When I use windows I have to think about how am I am going to do something to some extent, as well as the task I am trying to do. “
Can you give a specific example because what you’re saying sounds like a load of bollocks given how all major applications that run on Windows and Mac OS X work in substantially the same way on both and if any platform lags in terms of release dates or features it’s usually the Mac.
elgruga is my new hero.
Ok, here’s the faggot count today. The faggots I speak of are the buttslammers who use the words “fanboy” or fanboi”:
-New Information
Wow! Only one in this thread! Amazing!
Congratulations to all of our winners!!
elgruga is my new hero.
You must have mighty low standards.
I guess everyone needs a hobby, but yours is really pathetic.
“The faggots I speak of are the buttslammers who use the words “fanboy” or fanboi”:”
Come out of the closet Count. End your days of being an anonymous butslamming fanboy.
Porn looks better on a Mac.
Good Day. We don’t get offered crises, they arrive.
I am from Republic and , too, and now am writing in English, tell me right I wrote the following sentence: “Looking for low cost airline tickets and cheap international flights information? Look no further, as you have come to the right website allowing you to get.”
Waiting for a reply :-D, Norris.