MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Apr 03, 08 - 07:59 am Comment from: auren

Sigh... I can remember when you purchased an album and almost every single song was worth listening to, over and over again - Yellow Brick Road, 4 Way Street, Rumors

I know, I know, I'm dating myself.

Apr 03, 08 - 07:59 am Comment from: January 24, 1984

Change is moving so fast now we can all see history passing us by.

Apr 03, 08 - 08:10 am Comment from: Long duc Dong

The Dark Side of the Moon was (and still is) the best bundle money can buy.

if you really feel that way about albums your probably listening to the wrong sort of music (pop?) most good rock bands put together very worthy albums and a lot of them bands put a lot of effort into the flow or construction of that album. I can see individual songs being useful for pop music though as the albums are just filler to make a sale.

Apr 03, 08 - 08:11 am Comment from: silverhawk

Ala cart; the only way to buy!

There must be a mistake. Zune marketplace doesn't feature.

Apr 03, 08 - 08:15 am Comment from: ron

Are there crap- sorry - rap albums? I can't imagine the filler on those. .

Apr 03, 08 - 08:21 am Comment from: Zune Tang®

Hey I-Tunes enjoy your short time at #1 while it lasts. Zune Marketplace is rocketing to the top and we'll soon see a new leader in digital music retailing. Surely you I-POD lemmings have seen the signs. Zunes are everywhere—on buses, subways, sidewalks and at the gym rocking Night Ranger, REO Speedwagon (love the ballads) and when you're feeling a little crazy the Scorps.

Consumers are waking up to Apple's shenanigans with their proprietary formats and lock-in. Microsoft is coming to the rescue with Zune, and we can all agree it's about time. If only Dell would resurrect the Ditty to give the Zune some competition. The best part is the Zune story is only beginning.

Your potential. Our passion.™

The War of the Worlds - that's a good album

Apr 03, 08 - 08:26 am Comment from: UltraVisitor

This again? If a musician can't make an album where every song is awesome, it's not because album is not a good art medium, it's because the artist sucks.

It's like a director who can only makes a couple scenes worth watching. Or an author who only makes a couple paragraphs worth reading. If everything else they do sucks, you have to assume they just got lucky with their couple successes, but suck overall.

Music singles is huge part of why so many crappy artists can get popular so easily today.

Congratulations Apple!

You are wrong, MDN. Albums are not an artificial construction made by music cartels. Well, of course they are if you are listening to Britney and Paris, but go ask John Frusciante, Omar Rodríguez López, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Chick Corea, Victor Wooten, Maynard James Kennan, Adam Jones, Eddie Vedder, Trent Reznor, Thom Yorke, or any other artist that takes months in building that construction of music, of art, if they think it is artificial.

Music is a form of art brought down by music cartels, but there are soldiers in the vanguard fighting for keeping it real.

Stay with your computers and stop making statements about music. Obviously, you don't know anything else appart from Macs.

Apr 03, 08 - 08:38 am Comment from: Des Gusting

I completely agree with Bob.

And, by the way, the 74-minute length of a standard CD was chosen so that Beethoven's 9th Symphony could fit on it. Hardly an artificial construct for the purpose of ripping off foolish consumers.

Apr 03, 08 - 08:41 am Comment from: silverhawk

@Miguel
"go ask John Frusciante, Omar Rodríguez López, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Chick Corea, Victor Wooten, Maynard James Kennan, Adam Jones, Eddie Vedder, Trent Reznor, Thom Yorke"

Ya know, I'm almost 60, been listening to music since my parents big band records, and I've only heard of three of the people you mentioned. Are they on iTunes or grossly unrepresented?

Well maybe they'll start making better music now...

MDN doesn't 'arf sound like a broken record sometimes.

Well, all of the time, really.

Oh, and pun unintended.

Apr 03, 08 - 08:46 am Comment from: ElderNorm

@Miguel
"Music is a form of art brought down by music cartels, but there are soldiers in the vanguard fighting for keeping it real.

Stay with your computers and stop making statements about music. Obviously, you don't know anything else appart from Macs."

I am sure you are right about some albums, Miguel. But that does not mean that all albums are that way. The key is the ability to buy what you want. Singles..... Albums..... whatever.

Just a thought.
en

As the father of a musician, MDN you are totally wrong about the "concept" of an album. SERIOUS musicians create albums of work that have a unified structure. Quit with the fscking gross generalizations.

Back in the days of vinyl, they used to sell singles on small 45 RPM records for 69 to 99 cents each. Many bands made a fortune off the success of a "Forty-five" which turned at a faster speed than the larger full album releases.

The 45 sort of went away during the years of cassette and CD. Perhaps this was the industry trying to ram extra crap down the throat of the consumer.

Albums could offer bonus tracks as an incentive to buy the whole sha-bang but it needs to be compelling for the consumer to pop the extra money.

I never browse for music at Walmart anymore. It is too boring and inconvenient to look thru piles of CD's.

Why does an Album contain 8 to 12 tunes? Why are there at least a few tunes that are not up to the standards of the good stuff on an Album?

If you can only produce 2 good tunes, release a 2 tune Album. If you have 8 good tunes in you at this point in time and space, release an 8 tune Album.

The fact that virtually every Album is an 8 to 12 tune collection, regardless of the quality of those tunes, makes the Album an artificial construct.

Yeah, I think the idea that 'music cartels' are responsible for forcing us to buy albums is a little flawed. As I've always understood, back in the day, popular music was all about the singles. Then along came Dylan, the Beatles and the Stones, and the artists started making the push for albums over singles. However, I do think the music labels realized pretty quickly that was a way they could make a lot more money out of songs that weren't worth listening to. There's a line from a Neil Young song that says "some people have taken pure bullshit, and turned it into gold". I think that might hit the mark. Of course, I'll say that 90% of the time, I pick and choose my songs from iTunes. I love it, it's the only way to go. Time for the CONSUMER to have some more of the control back.

"Dark Side of the Moon, Yellow Brick Road, Sgt. Pepper, Pet Sounds, JC Superstar, and Bat Out of Hell are ALBUMS, ... Not an "Artificial Construct"... That how the artist meant for it to be heard.... If you don't like it, don't buy it... "

Agreed but if you still just like one or two tracks off these albums, surely you should have the right to buy just those tracks because, after all, as good as these albums are, you'll only ever hear radio stations play their most popular tracks and never the whole album.

"And, by the way, the 74-minute length of a standard CD was chosen so that Beethoven's 9th Symphony could fit on it. Hardly an artificial construct for the purpose of ripping off foolish consumers."

WHAT? First of all, a CD holds just nearly 80 minutes. But still, I've never heard of this before. Did you read this somewhere that you can link to?

Apr 03, 08 - 08:59 am Comment from: Demon

iTunes is saving the Music Labels Bacon and they need to support their retailers and not conspire to try driving them out of business. While the Music Industry would love nothing more them to own and control the entire industry from start to finish, earning profits at all points, it's nothing more then a way to enslave the customers as they have enslaved their contracted artists. That plan will require Apple not being in the top tier of retailers so, far the Music Labels plan to shrink iTunes lead and drive it out of business is not looking too go.

Music Subscriptions Services are the vehicle that the music industry will use to enslave it's customers and attempt to force out the Indie artists from the market place and even the smaller labels. If Indie Artists and the small labels can't sell their music on an even footing with the big labels then the big labels will continue to dominate the industry. The Big Music Dinosaur Mafioso need to undergo some very close and deep penetrating probes of their business contracts and practices using a very large cactus. If the congress would force the music industry labels to publicly disclose details of it's artist contacts and agreements with each other on things like the RIAA, Sound Exchange, The Fox Agency and all of the industries other trade groups and financial holding in recording studios, manufacturing plants and warehousing/Inventory control companies.
Here's a challenge for an investigative news agency. Follow the money, a CD cost 12.99 to 21.99+ who gets what and what amount of real money does the artist really make. Who gets paid off the top at 100% of selling price and who gets paid at the 80% or less of the selling price.

Never mind. It looks like that is still undetermined... http://www.snopes.com/music/media/cdlength.asp

@ Silverhawk

John Frusciante: Guitarrist for the Red Hot Chili Peppers and The Mars Volta, among others.

Omar Rodríguez López: Main artist and gitarrist for The Mars Volta, At The Drive In and De Facto, among others.

Steve Vai: Guitarrist for Frank Zappa and Ozzy, among others, but mainly known for his solo carreer.

Joe Satriani: One of the guitarrists for G3, but mainly known for his solo career.

Chick Corea: One of the greates pianist in Jazz.

Victor Wooten: Perhaps the best bass player alive. He plays Jazz.

Maynard James Keenan: Vocalist for Tool, A Perfect Circle and Puscifer, among others.

Adam Jones: Guitarrist for Tool. Named 75th best guitarrist of all times by Rolling Stone and placed 9th in Guitar World's Top 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists. He was the artist who made the dinosaurs for Jurassic Park.

Eddie Vedder: Main artist and vocalist for Pearl Jam.

Trent Reznor: Nine Inch Nails

Thom Yorke: Radiohead's vocalist.

Obviously you have either heard or watched at some moment of your life part of the work of this great artists. You don't know shit about music or any other form of art, even most of them are from the States. Stop blogging about your ignorance on art on a computers forum.

Apr 03, 08 - 09:06 am Comment from: Shadowself

If Apple were to sell losslessly compressed songs, I'd buy them.

Until then, I'll buy CDs, DVD-As and such and store them losslessly compressed on my system.

"The Dark Side of the Moon was (and still is) the best bundle money can buy."

Amen to that!

Take Greatest Hits Collections. The best bang for the buck in Albums. Even one hit wonders have Greatest Hits releases. That one hit plus all the other crap they ever released.

Sure, there are single performers or groups that have produced enough good stuff to fill one to five or six Greatest Hits releases. Even those collections leave out one or two 'must have' tunes that can only be purchased on another CD.

The whole legacy music recording business is based on maximizing profit and minimizing payments to the 'creatives'.

The iTunes Store marks the beginning of the end of the legacy music recording businesses.

@ Al

Albums have that quantity of tracks only for Pop and comercial shit music.

All CD's allow only 79 minutes of music so they can be played on any standard player. So there is room for a lot of more music, but most people don't listen to albums that last more than 45 minutes.

That is because people only want music to dance or have it as background at Starbucks.

You need to change your music habits, people. You need to vale music for what it is, not for what it costs.

I like a story about Lateralus, a Tool album. When Tool was recording it, The Label told them that they only had 79 minutes. That they couldn't exceed to make it a onger Album So they decided to make it 78 minutes and 58 second. In Danny Carey's words:

"We had more little bits and pieces that we wanted to put in between the songs, but when we went to mastering we had to leave out a lot of those. The manufacturer would only guarantee us up to 79 minutes. So our record is 78 minutes and 58 seconds long. We thought we'd give them 2 seconds of breathing room."

Listen to music, don't just hear it.

Some artists (but not many) like the Beatles and Pink Floyd didn't record crap. I do remember though that Journey's albums usually had one side of great songs and the flip side sucked. I don't necessarily blame Journey for that 'cause I'm sure they were pressured to produce a full album within a certain period of time. Being able to choose your music is a much better model. In the case of Pink Floyd who created albums as a whole piece of art, I would choose the album. There aren't really any artists doing that anymore - at least not that I'm aware of.

I agree totally!!!

I have this wonderful Beethoven ringtone that I like on my mobile and I once went to a symphony concert to hear the original Symphony No. 5 in C minor, Op. 67.

The concert started ok: da da da DUM, da da da DUM.
But guess what! After the 10 second piece that I know and like, they continue playing some filler that I never heard before, friggin Allegro and Andante and God knows what. I guess it would have taken tens of minutes but I leave the concert hall in anger and claim my money back. I was like "OMG, is this guy deaf or what? Symphony and structured tonal work my ass! Don't force-feed me to hear something new, I want to preview a 30 sec soundclip first on iTunes to make my decision if I like it or not." I got my money back.

I declare any kind of bundling of musical pieces dead. Whether it's an album, a symphony, an opera or a concert of any genre. With one notable exception: Hit Parades are always welcome.

I'm in the mood for Love, simply because you're near me...

Apr 03, 08 - 09:18 am Comment from: Randian

@ Miguel Angel

Get off your high horse and shuck the attitude. Clearly, you're one of those off-the-beaten-path types that value only abstruse "artists" -- you know, those performers whose tastes must necessarily be acquired, shall we say. We all know legions of people like you who work overtime at rejected ANYTHING "popular," just so they can strut their superior intellect and powers of discrimination. Be proud of your musical eclecticism, Miguel, but PLEASE keep it to yourself. Our tastes are just as valid as yours, vaunted as they are.

Apr 03, 08 - 09:23 am Comment from: Randian

Again @Miguel

"You need to change your music habits, people. You need to vale music for what it is, not for what it costs."

Sir, none of us "need" to do anything whatsoever conforming to your musical, social, political, or anything else-ical standards. Who the hell made YOU the arbiter of taste in this forum or any other? Your smugness knows no bounds, and I (for one) find your drivel more than a little boring. Good thing YOU'RE not an album. (And look, Miguel, I didn't use the word "sh*t" even once!)

Apr 03, 08 - 09:25 am Comment from: Spark

To continue on Macs King's commment, "Back in the days of vinyl, they used to sell singles on small 45 RPM records for 69 to 99 cents each. Many bands made a fortune off the success of a "Forty-five" which turned at a faster speed than the larger full album releases."

At the same time 45's cost close to a buck, albums went on sale for $3-4. Albums were "value" based. You like the song you hear on the radio? Well, instead of buying the single, you can get a dozen more songs by the same artist for just a few bucks extra. Albums were good deals, and we all went into album purchases knowing that there were going to be throw-away songs, but that there might also be some gems that didn't get radio play time.

Where the record companies took a wrong turn was to simultaneously kill the "single" while doubling and tripling the price of albums on CDs. Regardless of whether one thinks the quality of music by today's artists is lacking, the crux of the matter is that after the advent of the CD, the record companies took away the consumer's option of buying just the song's we wanted, in a singles format. With that, it became a lot harder to forgive the crap songs used to fill out an album.

Apr 03, 08 - 09:28 am Comment from: Think

@NeoVoyager

Keep in mind for for years CDs were only 650 MB or 74 minutes. It was only in the last 6 years, not sure, that 700 MB or 80 minute CDs came about.

As to why 74 minutes, the Beethoven's 9th Symphony is the most often quoted reason in every historical article I have read on the CDs creation. Even Snopes has it as a possibility but just can't prove it.

Apr 03, 08 - 09:35 am Comment from: silverhawk

Miguel,

I know art. Now I know who these folks are. Too bad there names are unknown as they are overshadowed by the bands. You generalize too much, asshole!

The album is simply one way of presenting music that happens to conform to the technological limitations of the time. With LPs, the time limit was around 45 min., with CDs, it's 79 min.

That doesn't mean that if you create a 79 min CD that it's a work of art anymore than if you create a 900 page novel that it is a work of art. The 45 min or 79 time limits are purely the results of technological limitations. Many artists are trying to write the next "War & Peace" when they should really limit themselves to a 20 page short story.

The truly great artists know how to create great art regardless of the limitations. In fact, their genius is more apparent the more they limit themselves.

If you think about it, internet delivery should actually free artist to create almost any length of work he wants—but that still doesn't mean people will want to buy it!

What Wal-Mart executives were overheard saying, after learning about Apple surpassing them.....

"It stinks when you are #2"

Apr 03, 08 - 10:17 am Comment from: Jubei

LOL... Amazon was just touting that they were #2... Who were they trying to fool?

wow this is stunning

i dunno if MDN corrected themselves later (i'm hopping in a bit late i guess) but they did make exceptions for pink floyd and the like... so why is everyone still getting all defensive about their favorite artistic bands?

i agree that radiohead/thom yorke and many others listed produce what i would consider "art" but MDN's comments are directed (if i understand correctly) more at the britney spears/whoever is "popular" these days type people who MAYBE put out one or two good tracks and the rest really IS fluff.

MDN used to not include that exception in their take. i'm glad they are now.

but how about on topic? itunes #1??! amazing! people bitch about ipod sales slowing but none of the "reports" and "analysts" seem to focus on the itunes store's amazing success..!

mw: congress - if pro is the opposite of ... meh, overused phrase

Apr 03, 08 - 10:37 am Comment from: James

Aaargh. A few of has have said it before and we're saying it again. You are so unfathomably off base on this one, MDN! Sure, something like a singles collection (and there's certainly nothing wrong with singles; and I would agree that things like 'EP I & II' scams are pure and simple greed) might very well be an 'artificial construct', but for most bands, they work their asses off trying to write good songs for an album. You might not find that stuff in the top 40, but that's nothing new. These ill informed, ass-backwards observations on this issue denigrate the efforts of real artists in my opinion, and every time I read this on the site, which I generally enjoy very much, it makes my blood boil. It is obvious whomever writes these pieces knows NOTHING about music culture or the people who make it a viable concern in the first place, has never been involved with it directly (and if I'm mistaken, please explain your logic). Poor bloke! You don't know what you're missing.

Keep buying those one-off Diddy tracks and stay away from this topic, please!

Apr 03, 08 - 10:48 am Comment from: AAPLguy

"The 45 sort of went away during the years of cassette and CD. Perhaps this was the industry trying to ram extra crap down the throat of the consumer."

Actually, I recall seeing CD singles in music stores, but not for very long. They were apparently not very popular and died out.

Apr 03, 08 - 11:23 am Comment from: Woody

@ AAPLGuy: I actually have a few mini-sized CD singles, and even a CD-Video. No, it's not DVD, its a mini LaserDisc (remember those 12-inch behemoths?) and CD hybrid.

@ Zune Tang: "Zunes are everywhere ...on sidewalks..." Yup, you got that right -- they're discarded litter.

I'd like to personally take some small amount of credit for iTMS being #1 -- I've spent an arse-load of money there, mostly for single tracks, but also, to MDN's chagrin, on quite a few complete albums. There are some very worthwhile albums that are complete works, not just collections of crappy singles.

Apr 03, 08 - 11:41 am Comment from: LordRobin

The album began as a way to collect a few hit singles, add a couple more tracks, and make more money.

In the 60's and 70's, some bands turned the album into a true artform.

But in the 90's, it seems the album lost its way. For every album that was a true work of art, there were many others that were one or two good songs with the rest filler. It's no coincidence that this development paralleled the death of the single. With the consumers having no other option to get the best songs, why put any effort into making better albums?

I think iTunes will eventually spark a rennaissance in quality albums. Those bands that just aren't creative enough to record 12 good songs can fall back on releasing digital singles. But now albums will actually have to be good to sell.

------RM

@Dirty Pierre le Punk
Are you talking "Jeff Wayne's War Of The Worlds"? I loved that one, back in the day. Haven't listened to it in a while, I will have to try and find my copy, anyone know if it is on iTunes?

http://www.thewaroftheworlds.com/

Apple needs to lose the DRM, or Amazon will catch up... subscription would be a nice option.

Apr 03, 08 - 12:25 pm Comment from: shen

wow, #1 and it is only April? that is faster than i expected and no doubt, though i have expected it to be this year for some time.....

now the question is, what % of those purchases were by iPhone or touch? is that becoming a significant part of the market or is everyone still buying from iTunes?

if that part of the market can grow, Amazon has less chance than the proverbial snowball.

I appreciate the option of buying songs al a carte, I really do. But I much prefer a strong bundle of songs from worthy bands. To evaluate the depth of a band, or to even get through a workout, I like to string together many songs from the same band.

There really are some good albums out there today, even if you to hunt for them.