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Nov 23, 07 - 06:55 pm Comment from: echo416

Will the iPhones be sold for 999 Euros? If that's the only option as locked phones are illegal, then it seems quite pricey and only affordable to a few.

Nov 23, 07 - 06:56 pm Comment from: Darkness

I swear, each new country that gets the iPhone is making AT&T;look better and better...

Nov 23, 07 - 06:59 pm Comment from: TowerTone

49 Euros is like $500.00 nowadays, right?

Nov 23, 07 - 07:12 pm Comment from: John

WOW, those plans suck! People keep telling me how much better European phones/service is than the US, but my $59 is going waaay further than the 59 Euros people in France are paying... and when you consider how much larger infrastructure costs are in the less densely populated US, it really starts to sound like Orange is being pretty greedy.

The cheapest ATT plan comes with (almost) more than the most expensive orange plan!
ATT 450 +5000 v Orange 480 +480 minutes
200SMS v 1000SMS is the only big difference. but with the difference in price one could pay for unlimited texts.
$60 v $160

Why are there so few texts available in these iPhone plans. It's one of the main reasons stopping me from getting one when my contract runs out.
I know the iPhone has email, but none of my friends phones do at the moment, so to keep in touch with them on the go, I need to send texts.
In the UK £35 gets you only 200, with other deals you can get twice as many texts, for less than half the price, and they come with a free phone.

Nov 23, 07 - 07:54 pm Comment from: ron

http://www.talkiphone.com/dont-need-data-remove-it-125/

I’m not sure if this is a mistake on AT&T;’s part or not, but the option to remove your iPhone data plan is now available. Previously, this was something you could not change.

Benefits do doing something like this is that you wouldn’t pay $20 (or more) for data if you don’t enjoy EDGE or use it sparsely. Also, some refrain from using it because of the slow speeds.

This wouldn’t be great for someone who checks the weather on the go, or doesn’t use WiFi a lot.

So, if you just hate EDGE and have always wanted to get rid of it, now you can. Just go to your AT&T;myAccount page and click “Add/Manage Features”.

Also, a note: this will additionally remove text messaging, you should add a text messaging plan if you don’t want to pay by the message.

49€=$72.57

Nov 23, 07 - 08:25 pm Comment from: marko

49€ = 49€

Europeans do not earn or think in American dollars

Plus get free Pita and Babaganoosh

@John

Fortunately, France is only a little part of Europe.

Anyway, prices in Europe are f***ing higher than in the US.

There's not such thing as a free market in Europe, unfortunately...

Oh, BTW, in Europe you don't pay when you receive a call...

Marko = small minded euro nazi

Those plans are FUCKED UP. 4hrs + 50SMS + unlimited data = 49€/mo?!?

In Finland you can get that for like 25€/mo and the data connection is 3G. The 119€/mo is like 60€/mo in Finland. I don't if 119€/mo is expensive in France, but sounds like a blood sucking considering what you get.

Nov 24, 07 - 02:31 am Comment from: Reality Check

@mta:
Two years ago, 49€ equalled $57. In those two years, my salary in Euro remains similar and so do the prices I pay for things. Your salary in $ has remained similar and so do the prices you pay for things. Thus comparisons between the price in $ and € are pointless - unless a European has to pay their mobile phone bills in $, which they don't. The only reason the price in $ looks so bad is because the $, as a currency, is becoming increasingly worthless as a commodity (in a relative sense).

Of more interest is how the iPhone plan in € compares with regular Orange phone plans in €. Unfortunately, the way the tariffs are constructed makes this quite difficult - but a €50 a month plan in the Netherlands would get you approximately 8 hours of free calls (compared with the 2 hours you get for an iPhone) with an SMS costing €0.17 per message. Alternatively you can add "bundles" to your package, such as 240 free SMS messages for €15 a month, €10 a month for 33 hours of free calls to other Orange mobile phones or €17.50 for 33 hours of free calls to fixed landlines. Of course, you also get one of the latest phones for free when you subscribe - all of which support 3G.

If I try to construct a similar Orange plan to the basic iPhone plan, then €15 gets me 2 hours of calls, €5.50 gets me 60 SMS messages and €6 gets me 25MB of 3G Internet access. Not an identical package, but pretty similar, and half the price. And you don't have to pay €400 up front for the phone. (Of course, if you tailor your package using some of the bundles, you can get far better value still).

About the only valid comparison between the US and European plans for the iPhone is that they are vastly overpriced compared with the competition. You pay a huge premium in order to touch your screen with your greasy fingers and gloat over the fact that you're cooler than your friends who got their phones for free...

Nobody read that about the Orange plan? :
«As the French law states, customers will be able to unlock their iPhone for free six months after their purchase but Orange will allow them to do that before that date for a 100€ charge.»

> Fortunately, France is only a little part of Europe.

France:
- has a population of around 64 million people;
- has the biggest country in Europe by land mass;
- has the second largest country in the European Union by population;
- has the sixth largest economy in the world;
- is a founding member of the European Union;
- is a founding member of the United Nations;
- is a member of the G8; and
- is a permanent member of the UN Security Council.

And before I hear yet another American who is under the age of fifty invoke the Second World War, remember that without France, America would never have secured its independence from the British. One wonders if, as a nation, we can ever be forgiven.

The market that exists within the EU is the 'common market'. As to complaints about a lack of the free market, perhaps citizens of the United Stated should look closer to home here: http:www.ij.org.

Nov 24, 07 - 08:58 am Comment from: MaLvado

Jacques de Villiers,

Don't forget the First World War either! =p

Just a bit sensitive?!?

Dear Self-Centered Self-Righteous Ones,

We in the US are interested in comparing your rates with ours and your plans with ours. We're curious what the real cost is that you pay verses the real cost we pay...

Is that so difficult to understand?

Roll up roll up early adopters sign here.........

Pay here...........

I'll stick with ipod in one pocket and mobile in the other ...

Nov 24, 07 - 02:24 pm Comment from: Reality Check

>Is that so difficult to understand

No, not at all. However, the point you don't seem to grasp is that comparing prices in US $ is a waste of your time due to exchange rate fluctuations. A few years ago, the pricing would seem identical (because 1€=$1) but now that the $ is falling so much in value, the cost in € seems expense to US citizens, but remains the same for Europeans. Far better to compare the cost of the iPhone against other plans in the same currency - which I did. Anyway, whichever way you cut it, the iPhone plan is ridiculously expensive.

Reality Check: About the only valid comparison between the US and European plans for the iPhone is that they are vastly overpriced compared with the competition. You pay a huge premium in order to touch your screen with your greasy fingers and gloat over the fact that you're cooler than your friends who got their phones for free...

At least in Germany the plans are in fact competitive, especially due to the unlimited data volume which is more expensive otherwise. "Overpriced" is easier said than proved.

As to the $/€ ratio, it does affect prices in at least one segment: Energy (oil/gas).

Nov 24, 07 - 03:42 pm Comment from: Reality Check

@ping - see my post about 5 posts up. I "proved" that the iPhone plan in France is about twice the price of the same service for a regular mobile with Orange in the Netherlands. The iPhone is not yet released in Netherlands so I obviously don't know how Orange would price it here - but if anything it would be slightly more than France if other goods are anything to go by.

Not sure what the point about energy prices is? We're discussing the iPhone here. But you're right, the weak dollar is insulating Europe against the rising oil prices.

Reality Check: I "proved" that the iPhone plan in France is about twice the price of the same service for a regular mobile with Orange in the Netherlands.

That's all good and well, but when the question is whether the iPhone plans are overpriced or not, the benchmark would be a similar plan for other phones in the same country. And at least in Germany, there is apparently no real "iPhone premium".

Other phones are just not generally offered with unlimited data plans.


Reality Check: Not sure what the point about energy prices is?

The point is that nominally unchanged earnings in either currency do not necessarily mean that they're completely isolated from the currency rates.

It's not a useless comparison. The point being made is that for the same amount of money (dollars, euros, dead leaves, whatever) the amount of airtime on AT&T;is much, much more than with Orange.

See BC's comment, about five from the top; we in the US pay the equivalent of about 40 euros for what is closest to Orange's 119 euro plan. To put it another way; to get the same airtime on Orange, I would have to pay 3x what I pay now.

It's not about euros vs dollars, it's about value of service for tendered currency.

Nov 24, 07 - 04:30 pm Comment from: Crabapple

The Middlebronfeman owns part of Orange or all of it?, This is his way of getting back at Apple inc. for cutting him out of iTunes for demanding customers be milked for more cash!!

He took Orange from a market leader in the UK to a bit player, even 3 which is the new kid on the block has surpassed Orange in subscriber numbers.

NOTE TO ALL:- Beware the ides of the Bronfeman!!!

Don't forget the european plans come with unlimited incoming calls!

you know you get 100 minutes over here with the basic plan?!! Plus unlimited data means 200 MB a month. It is unlimited but every byte more than those 200 MB is with reduced download speed ....

Nov 24, 07 - 04:57 pm Comment from: Reality Check

Sheesh. Stop comparing $ and €!! It's meaningless. The $ is at an all time low at the moment - everything outside the US seems expensive to Americans at the moment. Welcome to the consequences of living on too much credit. In a year's time, if you get your fiscal policies sorted out, then the European prices may seem 50% cheaper - but still cost the same. The only comparison of relevance is how the iPhone plan compares to other plans in Euros, or perhaps, if you can find the data, how the plan to "average disposable income" ratio compares between the US and Europe. Comparing it on today's exchange rate is meaningless.

ps. I'm not even necessarily disputing that the French plan *is* more expensive than the US plan. It most likely is. But the basis on which people here are arriving at this conclusion is ridiculous. The Dollar is a worthless piece of paper at the moment.

FOOLS!

in europe you dont have to pay or spend minuted on incoming calls, only outgoing calls...

Compared with the existing tariffs, iPhone tariffs are (more or less) cheaper in every country you can buy the iPhone. Ok, you can get a phone flatrate here for about 25-30 Euro (roughly 18-22 Pound Sterling), but that does not include Edge od Wlan Hotspots, neither Visual Voicemail. The attempt to compare tariffs is what was supposed to happen,, but which will, due to differences in the service (e.g. pay for incoming calls or not) not work correctly.

In general customers in the US get vastly more talk minutes and even have the roll-over option. From that point of view all providers in Europe are much more expensive.
Focused on Europe only, the Orange tariff seems to offer the best deal as in includes more minutes and sms than O2 and T-Mobile. If the limit on WiFi in the smallest tariff will be to restrictive, will be shown in future.

@ Ozz:
You are right about incoming call, but this "There's not such thing as a free market in Europe, unfortunately..." is not a valid point.
We in Europe are on a good way, but services like mobile phone networks won't be european-wide from one day to another. This takes time.

@marko:
Absolutely. I am a German living in Ireland and the US Dollar is not that important in daily life. With one huge exception: The price of AAPL!

@Give it a break little one:
Did marko call you a small minded dollar nazi before?
I guess you would call anybody a nazi who cares about other things than the US. That would be a limited and pretty intolerant way. Just two attributes of fashism, by the way.

@Masa:
Finland has highest mobile phone penetration rate in the population. In rural areas a landline does not make too much sense anyway. Your point about the tariffs is a bit doubtful.


@ping and RealityCheck:
You cannot compare iPhone tariffs with voice only tariffs in the Netherlands. That's pointless.

@german girl:
Nice to point this out, but customers in the US with their 450minutes plus weekend calls get 'a bit more' than this.

@Ozz "In Europe you don't pay when you receive a call"
That's as long as you stay within the confines of, sometimes, pretty small countries.

@marko "Europeans do not earn or think in American dollars"
Neither do they pay taxes like the Americans, instead they pay through the nose.

@reality check "years ago $1 was €1, now it's $1.5 to €1"
Why is it then that Apple still charges €1 to $1? That's a markup of 27% if one counts 21% of VAT that is included in the advertised European prices.

One consideration I am making is that I currently spend €28 every 2-3 months to replenish my Pay&Go;sim card. Once I step into the iPhone's €49/mo plan, the data part in the plan will cost me a lot, and I don't really need all the free hours/month that is currently included in those plans.

Nov 25, 07 - 09:15 am Comment from: TowerTone

" I am a German living in Ireland "
I'm sorry, but that reminds me of a Monty Python skit. Now how did that go?........Oh, and Basil Faulty, too. (not Irish, I know)(not that there's anything WRONG with it...)

Nov 25, 07 - 09:31 am Comment from: Reality Check

@Apple Mat: I didn't. I included a 3G data option in my comparison, and the iPhone tariff was still twice as expensive.

@Vanfruniken: Don't ask me, ask Apple. It's outrageous in my opinion (and VAT is less than 21% in many European countries)

Apple Mat: You cannot compare iPhone tariffs with voice only tariffs in the Netherlands. That's pointless.

Exactly my point.

Vanfruniken: Neither do they pay taxes like the Americans, instead they pay through the nose.

When you're looking at a) the amount of taxes actually paid and b) the infrastructure you get for it in return, americans are basically ripped off.

Nov 25, 07 - 09:58 am Comment from: Madmax

Reality check - the iphone is a convergence device - ipod & mobile phone - not an entirely new way of speaking or listening. If you have a phone with 50 euro per month contract the step to iphone isn't too great. Those on PAYG phones will probably stick with them until the unlocking software is mature enough to be confident it won't turn into an 'ibrick'

Nov 25, 07 - 12:37 pm Comment from: Reality Check

@Madmax: Just about every phone on the market is also an MP3 player. Indeed, Orange even have special "music" plans for their mobile service and Sony Ericsson (amongst others) have a whole series of music-orientated phones. The *only* novel thing about the iPhone is its touch-screen interface. In terms of features, it is, if anything, a generation behind the latest phones.

Whatever way you cut it, you pay a huge premium to be able to swipe your sticky fingers across the screen of your phone!

Nov 25, 07 - 01:01 pm Comment from: Madmax

RC- true, but most MP3 playing phones are not something you can watch. Apple has produced its own competition with the iTouch.

ITouch (16Gig) + PAYG phone unless you are desperate to see how poor edge is, will produce a far cheaper result.

Nov 25, 07 - 02:29 pm Comment from: LorD1776

Hey Reality Check, there is a solution to your "sticky fingers". It's called soap and water. And just what the heck have you been up to anyway? I'll bet it's not eating cotton candy!

Nov 25, 07 - 02:43 pm Comment from: Reality Check

Isn't web browsing synonymous with sticky fingers?

Nov 25, 07 - 05:07 pm Comment from: LorD1776

I thought it was synonymous with shoplifting.

50 text messages and only 2+2 hours? Lame.

My Verizon plan here, for US$45 a month, includes 250 text messages, 6.7 hours (400 min) peak talk time, and unlimited night and weekend talk time.

Granted, that does not include any data. But 2 hours and 50 SMS messages seems really stingy. I guess they assume you will communicate almost entirely using the iPhone email...