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Feb 06, 08 - 12:38 pm Comment from: Predrag

France has population of roughly 65 million (about less than a quarter of the US). If we extrapolate the numbers, the 90,000 iPhones in France would be equivalent to about 400,000 devices in the US (200,000 per month).

Is this good or bad?

Not very impressive... But until a 3G model turns is released, Apple is not going to sell a lot of iPhones there. Same for Germany.

Feb 06, 08 - 12:50 pm Comment from: Basil Ganglia

US sales (~20,000/day) = 600,000/month, so France is only at about one-third the US rate on a per person basis. Not so great it seems to me.

Ooops, sorry ! Ignore the "turns" in my previous comment.

Feb 06, 08 - 12:57 pm Comment from: Ampar

Maybe Apple needs to run an ad there with a naked Carla Bruni using an iPhone.

The quoted 20k a day number was a worldwide rate (at least since mid-Nov when iPhone was released in Europe). It's not that clear what the US-only number is.

iPhone sales in France is way better than in Germany tho..looks pretty good in France IMHO

3G for a phone is the equivalent to 0-60 times for cars, looks good on a spec sheet, but tell me the real world appeal. You know the dodge neon turbo had a great 0-60 time, but it still was a shit box.

Feb 06, 08 - 01:04 pm Comment from: Dave H

In Europe the iPhone needs 3G to succeed. Apple have to start understanding the world outside of the USA. What works there doesn't always work elsewhere, so taking the usual one size fits all attitude to their product line and basing on the lowest common denominator is going to cost them sales when it comes to phones.

I get the biggest laugh when reading all the "what Apple must do to be successful is ...".

Please.

If you have designed, manufactured, marketed, and sold 4,000,000 of anything, please blather on - you've earned the right to do so.

If you have ever said "what Apple needs to do to be successful is ...", please give Laura a call. She recognizes genius when she finds it.

Feb 06, 08 - 01:18 pm Comment from: rahrens

Hmm, France has 64 million people, the US has 303 million. That's less than a fifth of the US population, yet I see no population figures in your post, Basil. So how do you get a per person "rate"? Yes, it's 1/3 the sales figures perhaps, but at less than 1/5th the population, I'd say France is selling pretty well at one third the "monthly" rate of US sales!

When exactly will this bloodbath take place? You know, the one thyet MDN advocates.

Nokia will sell almost half a BILLION phones next year worldwide, but lets talk about this upcoming iPhone bloodbath shall we?

Feb 06, 08 - 01:20 pm Comment from: rahrens

...and if mark is right, and that 200,000 per month is world-wide, then they're doing even better!

Feb 06, 08 - 01:29 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

Apple have to start understanding the world outside of the USA.

Apple is an international company and has been selling products abroad for thirty years Dave... when you finally leave high school and get out to see the world around you, you may figure that out.

In the mean time Apple's iPhone sales will continue to gather momentum and when the time is right for 3G, Apple will bring it, k?

Dear people,

just compare the prices of iPhones in the U.S. and Europe.
Steve got too greedy. It's as simple as that!

70,000 in December.
http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/15947/
20,000 in January (90,000-70,000).
Bloodbath in February?

It is not 1/3. It is 1/30. 20,000/600,000!
Perhaps it's not fationable enough in France, or that it's American.
I wonder how Blackberries are doing there.

Feb 06, 08 - 02:24 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Dave H: "Apple have to start understanding the world outside of the USA."

Apple announced more than 12 months ago that they were going to release a 3G model iPhone. I know it's difficult, but try to keep up.

They also said that they are waiting for lower power 3G chips that don't drain the batteries as rapidly.

Feb 06, 08 - 02:29 pm Comment from: twilightmoon

Gavron: "Steve got too greedy. It's as simple as that!"

The prices of Apple products abroad may be a problem but they are not all attributable to greed on the part of "Steve" or Apple, there are things like import taxes, and other fees, as well as additional shipping costs and other things that can increase the price of products from one country to another.

twilightmoon,

I used to think that as well, but then I thought more closely about it. Shipping costs from China to Europe can't be more expensive than shipping costs from China to the U.S. Most other Chinese and Japanese products are about the same price in Europe as in the U.S. - when you allow for the various national sales taxes.

Sales tax here in Germany is 19% but less in some other European countries, but all Apple products cost between 40% and 50% more in Europe.

I'm an Apple enthusiast but there are a few things (not just related to Europe) that seem to be pure, greedy bloody-mindedness - like charging three times the normal price for RAM memory on the online Apple Stores - Apple only trick the uninitiated (new buyers?) with this one. Shame on you Apple!
Another example: charging a whole lot more for a Macbook if you want it in black.
Everybody knows black plastic is no more expensive than white.

These things look like petty money-grubbing and leave a bad taste in the mouth, especially coming from a company that prides itself on its good taste.

As for the prices in Europe, I firmly believe that Apple could have the same share of the market here as in the U.S. if they were more reasonable about pricing.

Feb 06, 08 - 04:41 pm Comment from: Dave H

"when you finally leave high school and get out to see the world around you, you may figure that out."

LOL. High school? Apple's not the only one that needs to understand the world outside of the USA

Crappy old 2.5G GSM (whatever you want to call it) is old hat over here. Phone companies give away 2.5G handsets. If you're selling something at a premium price, it needs to tick all the premium boxes if you want to maximise sales. The current iPhone is a start, but it's lacking in too many areas. Those of us in countries where the mobile network isn't stuck in the mid-90s realise that.

"Apple announced more than 12 months ago that they were going to release a 3G model iPhone. I know it's difficult, but try to keep up."

I seem to remember a 3.0GHz PowerMac G5 being announced within 12 months too. When a 3G iPhone ships I'll take notice. Until then it's vapourware.

@Dave H

"I seem to remember a 3.0GHz PowerMac G5 being announced within 12 months too. When a 3G iPhone ships I'll take notice. Until then it's vapourware."

Not exactly the best comparison in my view. 3.0GHz PPC G5 CPU didn't exist at the time of that prediction, and never materialized from IBM or anyone else. 3G technology currently exists and technically could be in iPhone now. Apple simply made the business decision not to implement 3G in their first version iPhone.

It is suitable for speculation whether that was a good decision or not, but the CEO's of Apple and AT&T;have both stated publicly (not predicted) that a 3G iPhone will be released, and roughly the timing of that. Furthermore, AT&T;announced today that they are significantly expanding their 3G coverage in the US.

You can believe that a 3G iPhone is "vapourware" if you like, but I don't place much credibility in that view.

@ Gavon Apple is not the only party guilty of over charging for RAM, DELL , HP they all do it. Apple shows in all of their manuals how to up grade the RAM yourself if you so desire, even the hard drive. What Apple does not do is tease you with a stripped down useless machine in a National advertising campaign and once you bought the machine you realize that the price has jumped 2.5 time the initial advertized value in order to get any useful work done on the machine. My point an industry wide issue should not be posted as an Apple specific complaint.

Feb 06, 08 - 09:39 pm Comment from: Lurker_PC

Hmm... I wonder how many iPhones Orange activated.

Peace.

Feb 07, 08 - 12:00 am Comment from: shen

"Nokia will sell almost half a BILLION phones next year worldwide, but lets talk about this upcoming iPhone bloodbath shall we?"

really?

how many of those are high margin high profile smart phones, and how many are free give away pieces of crap that they are losing money on because nobody would pay for it?

just curious.

will even 10% of those half billion be so called smart phones?

Apple has a single model phone, in few countries, for limited carriers, and they are still crushing the competition in that part of the market.

you think Nokia isn't aware of this? why do you think that EVEY page on EVERY web site that mentions the iPhone has ads for other phones on it? you think they are paying for those ads because they aren't seeing the chunk of market that Apple is taking and trying to respond?

in other words, are you an astroturfer, or are you just dense?

@ Shen

You seem to be the dense one. 10% of half a billion would be 50mio. How does that number stack up to the overall number of iPhone sales?

What the fanboys on this site don't seem to be able to come to terms with is that even though Apple does make superb products, it doesn't mean that everything else ever made by anyone else is crap. Apple does not have a monopoly on quality products. I like Apple products as much as the next guy (or gal - sorry Chrissy), but I don't see the constant need to cram it down everyone else's throat every minute of the day.

@shen

astrosurfer? dense? You seem pretty desperate but dont worry you'll get your bloodbath soon enough.

Nokia makes money on these cheap crappyphones due to their good logistics and high volumes, Motorola tried to challenge Nokia in India&China;with these cheap phones and they are still paying the bill for it (google before you spit shit)

Lets face it, iPhone has been (barely) ok in England&France;but a dissapointment in Germany. Also, iPhone benefited from that fact that the launch was close to Christmas time.

Dont expect any big sales now that the hardcore Apple fans have bought there iPhone and Christmas is over, January in France is a good example of this - mere 20 000 sold.

@Steves Job
"but I don't see the constant need to cram it down everyone else's throat every minute of the day."

Can you explain your notions here, I mean, what do you expect the discussions on an Apple Mac centric site to be about - Preserving summer fruits for winter, Ten different ways to improve your driving skills, enjoying "broderie anglaise" embroidery with traditional Tibetan floral motifs?

Here, at MDN's patch we are a small "community" with an interest in Apple and Apple related topics. In this instance we are bending each others ears (eye's) with our thoughts on an article in the press about iPhone sales in France.

Remember France borders Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Belgium and Luxembourg so many of those phones probably left the country. Is this 90,000 new Orange customers, or iPhones sold?

@SKYLARK

My "notion" is that there are a number of people who post here who have to belittle everything that is not Apple, and it starts with the author(s) of the "MDN Take" comments themselves. Many of us come here to read about Apple products, not to have to sift through snide, smug, superior posturing about how everything Mac is perfect and everything else is "dense", stupid, dumb, or crap. It is one thing to be slightly Mac centric, but something else to be a screaming hatemonger about anyone who writes something that is not 100% pro Apple.

We have all seen the Steve Ballmer vids. Just about everyone seems to agree that he is a spin doctor of the very worst kind. Does that mean that behaving as he does is the way to counter his stupidity? Apparently yes, if the fanboys on this site are anything to go by, and that is why we hear about the "cult of Mac" from the mainstream media.

I am a big Apple fan, and try to promote Apple products to all my friends and colleagues. I don't have to do it in an obnoxious, pushy sycophantic fashion, yet I have still caused lots of people to switch. In fact, they probably switch because I show them the positive aspects of using Apple products, not by mocking them if they own a PC. Unfortunately, that seems to be a "notion" that a number of trolls on this board don't seem to be able to appreciate.

I'm always amazed at how any critic of Apple quickly goes for "Market Share" and "Total units sold" as their measuring stick.

That is exactly not the way Apple fans look at things. We look at usefulness, design, cool factor and overall quality of manufacturing.

The logic some use would be like saying the Dodge Neon is a better car than a new Audi or BMW. They would argue look at the numbers.

The iPhone is by far the best phone for sale today. What phone compares with it ? Please tell me the phone so I can look into it and do some research. I have not found any that can even be mentioned. The new phone that is going to come from Garmin seems like the only phone I've read about that may provide a challenge.

Where are all these great Nokia phones ? Tell me about there features please. Can I surf the web with a real Browser ? Can I watch youtube videos with a push of a button ?

Please talk about real features, not sales numbers only.

Remember a BMW is better than a Dodge Neon.

@ Fat Guy in Thong

What Nokia N95 has and iPhone doesent (among other things):

* 3G (HSDPA-enhanced)
* 5 megapixels camera (iPhone has 2mp)
* GPS
* Replaceable battery
* MMS
* Instant messaging
* Video calling
* Video capture 640 x 480 (30 frames per second)
* VoIP
* 3rd-party apps
* Video output to TV
* Not locked to any specific carrier

Some of these will be (is already?) in upgraded iPhones and you may say "I dont need any of those features", I can relate to that, but maybe some of us can be without the "cool factor" of iPhone? Featurewise iPhone isnt really that amazing.

Thanks for the info. I will check it out. I'll look at some reviews of it.
I appreciate talking real features. Later.