MacDailyNews - Where Mac news comes first

Aug 15, 08 - 11:40 am Comment from: Ferf Muckmeyer

"I guarantee this is not about revenge".

When shit like this happens to someone like Bucher, you better believe it is. I'm sure he is sitting in meetings at Dell telling his new employer how he wants to destroy Apple and teach Jobs a lesson.

I wish him luck. Many have tried. All have failed. And this will be a bonafide failure.

Aug 15, 08 - 11:41 am Comment from: January 24, 1984

Sounds like an "up and down" venture.

Aug 15, 08 - 11:42 am Comment from: January 24, 1984

What's that old Chinese saying?

"Before setting out on revenge, first dig two graves."

Aug 15, 08 - 11:58 am Comment from: theloniousMac

It would be very easy to break the Apple strangle hold.

You need only a few ingredients:

1. Good Design.

Hire real designers. Talented designers. Don't put crap out there. You know if it's on par or better than the comparable Apple iDevice just looking at it, holding it, and using it. Keep al the fricking iPods sitting on the desk in front of you to keep you on track.

2. OPEN STANDARDS.

Make it play everything including H.264, MP4, MOV, DIVX, MPEG-1, MPEG-2, AVI, DVCPRO50 and DVCPROHD. Don't put a stupid Hollywood blessed device out there that only plays WMV. Open! Open! Open! NO CONTROLS. Make it your concern to sell a device (as someone put it yesterday) not push a standard.

3. Make it compatible with every music service you can or start your own DRM FREE, repeat DRM FREE music service. Do a deal with Amazon that gets you discounts on content for initially purchasing the device.

4. Work a deal with some studio to land some important exclusive property for the device. I.e. Star Wars Clone Wars or something. Have it ship with an episode or 2 on it.

5. Make it Mac compatible. Building it to just work on Windows PCs will automatically make the loudest and most vocally aggressive segment of the market bad mouth it while it's just in nascent conceptual stages let alone when it actually ships.

6. Make it a storage device that pops up automatically on computers like the iPod on Macs without the need for special software like the iPhone.

7. Big Screen, Beautiful Picture. Watching video on the iPhone or the iPod touch is a pleasure.

8. Build in a 3.5 mp digital camera with video capability that uploads automatically to youtube.

9. Product place this baby. When Jason Bourne opens a safety deposit box in Prague, right next to his .9mm, stack of cash, SpecialOps Watch, and cell phone, he should find this device with a recorded message for him.

10. Constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY talk about how you admire the iPod, not how you're building an iPod Killer. When the media uses that phrase denounce it. Say you "Don't want to kill the iPod, you want to compete effectively in a space that was defined by the iPod." It will make you sound intelligent, mature, and like you actually know what you're doing cause you ain't gonna kill the iPod.

11. Make it cheaper than the iPod, but not too cheap.

12. Buy a shit load of Advertising on MDN.

Aug 15, 08 - 12:00 pm Comment from: Anonymous©

"zing"ing sounds like zero conf or bonjour. I mean, if it isn't, then creating another standard to get media from one location to another between devices is an uphill battle. Why not use an open-standard?

There are only 10 reasons to be in business. The first is to make a profit. The other nine don't count.

Bucher has the ability to make a product with potential to make a profit. THAT is what attracted DELL. It is what will attract others.

If it doesn't attract others, then the consensus is that it won't make a profit.

Aug 15, 08 - 12:03 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

Oh and one other thing...

13. Sadly, people hate the Dell logo. Create a new logo for Dell Media Devices or something that doesn't say "DELL." Putting "DELL" all over it is the kiss of death. Get some high falutin artist to design the dmd logo.

Ok. Now you can pay me the same thing you're paying Enderle.

"It would be very easy to break the Apple strangle hold."

If it were easy, many people would have done it by now.

-jcr

Bucher was a manager of hardware engineering, as I recall. Did Dell hire him in a marketing capacity?

-jcr

Aug 15, 08 - 12:12 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

@John C. Randolph

It is very easy, they just do stupid things.

#1. The woefully underestimate the consumer. I mean underestimate big time. ALA Creative. They just don't get it.

#2. Seriously disregard the Macintosh Market. They think that just because Apple makes the iPod we won't look at another device if it's better.

They believe they can sell any piece of crap to the PC market.

So they screw up.

Breaking Apple's stranglehold is child's play for an intelligent organization and I doubt very seriously that's DELL.

The trouble is that a consensus often has no bearing on reality.

Consensus said Apple will fail. Consensus said the Mac will fail. Consensus said the iMac will fail. Consensus said the iPod will fail. Consensus said the iPhone will fail.

Reality, not consensus, is what you must be aware of to create a business that works... let alone one that is profitable.

Those who ignore reality do so at their own peril.

And the reality here is that the music industry is not likely to get on board for this.

That was funny Thelonius. But what the hell will anyone want that Dell for when they already bought an iPhone?

Aug 15, 08 - 12:20 pm Comment from: Jubei

Payola on the digital front. Thats what they will try to do. Pay off all those labels and hollywood. MS has guaranteed revenue stream, so they can afford to keep losing for years on end to fund that strategy.

Aug 15, 08 - 12:21 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

Hell. I even have the design and the first commercial.

You design it as a long rectangle similar to the size of the iPod Touch only a bit larger.

You show it standing up with low rumbling sound in the background.

You have a bunch of monkeys with white earbuds come up to it and touch it and the rumbling becomes Also Sprach Zarathustra (2001), and the rest is history!

I can see their first tv ad for it now: it'll star the Spice Girls singing "I really really really wanna Zing-a-Zune aaaahh"

Marvellous!

Aug 15, 08 - 12:24 pm Comment from: theloniousMac

@Macaday...

It's just a mental exercise. I'm trying to create a device I would buy. Not everyone wants their phone and media player in the same box.

Aug 15, 08 - 12:25 pm Comment from: oh no my shorts

"I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google."

Not about revenge, just having a bad day.

Aug 15, 08 - 12:26 pm Comment from: Demon

"The software handles behind-the-scenes translations so that content can be 'zinged' between computers and other compatible devices"

In other words Open Standard content (AAC, .H264, MP3 and ...) transcoded (most likely on an internet server) into the low quality proprietary Zing format that will not be compatible with the iPod and will only work on Dell and Dell's Partner's media players.
The Low quality Zing Format is after all why Zing failed to impact or impress the market the first time around and Mickey picked up the company on the cheap.

I'll give them 18 months before they are pull the plug and closing it up, 24 if they do manage to take some of the Zune's market share.

Aug 15, 08 - 12:28 pm Comment from: Predrag

If Thelonius Mac were to succeed Mikey Dell tomorrow, I would be seriously worried about Apple and its world domination. Fortunately (for Apple and its fans), and unfortunately for Mikey Dell (and perhaps Thelonius), this ain't happening.

Seriously, It's been a long while since I had seen such a succint, pointed and accurate argument regarding effectively competing against the iPod juggernaut. Very impressive, indeed, Mr. Thelonius.

Thelonius - its 9mm not .9 - its .45 caliber (approx 10mm) or .40 cal or .50 cal. Its a reference to the diameter of the bullet. .9mm would be incredibly tiny, and might not even kill a mouse if you could even make a gun and a cartridge that small.

"stock up on the lithium"

OUCH!

Mr. Bucher got stevenaged ... as I am told: He is not the only one.

Zing, zing a song
Make it simple to last
Your whole life long
Don’t worry that it’s not
Good enough for anyone
Else to hear
Just zing, zing a song...

La, la la, I can't hear you!

If it only works on Windows, how can it be considered 'open'??!

MDN: "If so, stock up on the lithium, folks..."

It's librium, not lithium, unless there is a new, battery-powered treatment.

"He's spearheading an ambitious plan at Dell to break Apple's dominant hold on the digital entertainment market."

Good luck and Dogspeed.

Whoops! Excuse me. There is a drug called lithium. My apologies.

@TheIoniousMac

You missed one key detail - and this is one that would probably be a challenge, but it needs to interface with accessories that work with the iPod. I'm sure that interface is protected, but if it's available for license, it would be well worth it. No one is going to be tempted to switch their iPod out for a device that won't work with their existing sound dock, their whole house audio system, or the adapter they had installed in their car. This is one of the major failings of the Zune and will continue to plague it for the rest of its miserable life.

"Its a reference to the diameter of the bullet. .9mm would be incredibly tiny, and might not even kill a mouse if you could even make a gun and a cartridge that small."


"Stuart Little 3: Revenge of the Evil Falcon"

"Go ahead. Make my bed."

Aug 15, 08 - 01:25 pm Comment from: makemineamac

Thelonius, get to work. Start your own company and get going. Your points are all well made, and the only way to succeed against Apple, is to respect the space they've built. Your thoughts do just that.

Sounds like conspiracy, they are really afraid of Apple.

If you can't beat them with your innovative products... form an alliance, Axis of Evil.

Aug 15, 08 - 01:55 pm Comment from: elgruga

Sorry, but these 'business plans' wont work.

1 You need an OS that you own or have total control over.

2 You need a large and well-organised company that is run by someone with imagination and prescience.

3 You have to balance your products between what people think they want and what people think they need. Its a kind of social engineering that doesnt make you feel manipulated, but still persuades you.
It comes from Marketing and Design and Advertising and Software all working together, intelligently.

4 You have to create something NEW, but not a one-hit wonder.
It has to make sense to people.

5 You need to develop it while your core competetency is still making you money.

I would choose a Linux version, build a real consumer desktop around it and do like Apple did with OSX.

I would build my products to work with open standards.

I would IGNORE Windows entirely - this is a future product, and Windows is the past.

I would be prepared to work for at least ten years to bring the products to fruition.

Unfortunately, Dell has no idea how to do this. NO IDEA. (proof? they hired Enderle, a class A moron)

Dell is a component-buying, cardboard box shipping company.

They are NOT a software group. they are NOT a design group. they are all about cheap crap at a low price.

WHY do we think for a SECOND that they could build and design anything at all?


ONLY Apple can do this, because Apple has BUILT, painstakingly, a company with VALUES and SKILLS, and has created a world of software and hardware around OSX and all the software that works on it.

IF there is anyone out there who could do this, they wont appear for another 10 - 20 years, and it wont be Dell, who are much more likely to disappear, rather than flourish.

The game is on between Apple and the music biz - it wont involve Dell or Micro$shit.

Its NOT about money, its about being aware.

The winner will be Apple, because the public are learning to HATE the music Biz, are getting addicted to simply downloading music quickly without buying chunks of plastic, because ENVIRONMENTALLY downloads are superior, because the music biz is the PAST.

You think the App store is o big deal? Think again.
It will be the beginning of the Artist selling his MUSIC to APPLE exclusively and taking 70% of the proceeds instead of 3% they get now from the music biz.

People HATED their crappy cell phones - Apple brought them the iPhone.
People HATED Windows - Apple brought them OS9 OSX.
People have LONG memories when they get RIPPED OFF - watch the music biz die, and Dell with it.

My rant is now officially over, for today.

"Ousted Apple vet Tim Bucher heading up Dell’s quixotic music ‘strategy’"


So, it's powered by tiny windmills?

Aug 15, 08 - 03:52 pm Comment from: HotinPlaya

Zing? is that something like Squirt?

Zing is the sound it makes when I pee on it.

Aug 15, 08 - 05:33 pm Comment from: Latin69

This has EPIC FAIL written all over it!

That Zing don't mean a thing if it ain't got the Apple bling.

Apple has all of it's own customers taken care of.

Aug 15, 08 - 06:20 pm Comment from: G4Dualie

What if all this is a hoax?

What if there was no fallout between Jobs and Bucher and instead this is a clever plan by Jobs to embed a loyal employee inside mikey Dell's inner circle?

What if this were corporate espionage?

Nah. This is just about revenge. Dell had a good laugh for years over Apple's stagnation and now that the reverse is true, why not hire former Apple employees, if only to get a little closer to the magic. Microsoft does. Funny though, you never hear about Apple hiring Dell's or Microsoft's former employees.

But it makes you wonder whether Bucher still has to comply with a court-ordered NDA and that any violation will be met with, swiftly and decisively.

Good luck mikey, but even if this doesn't pan out, I would suggest you keep Bucher around if for no other reason than keeping a good supply of eggs.

@ HUDsucker Proxy

Most droll!

Aug 15, 08 - 06:42 pm Comment from: MacSmiley

Whatever happened here, we don't know all the details. But I have one thing to say to Steve Jobs. Have your lawyers get you up to date on the Americans with Disabilities Act. An ounce of legal prevention is worth a pound of courthouse cure.

For the average people the "if it ain't broken then don't fix it" rule applies. If consumers are truly suffering from iPod/iTunes and begging for rescue, no doubt someone smarter or richer or more sinister than Dell would have done it by now. The problem with potential Apple-killers is that they are always trying to create a solution for a problem that does not exist, like Open Office trying to unseat MS Office. Most people have Office for free at work. They do not need or want to bother to learn a new office software.

The second problem with Dell is that it is tied to Windows, and anything it creates goes head to head first with MSFT. On the alternative music sales front, there is already Amazon, who has more 'cloud' than Dell ever will. And if this new 'alliance' makes digital content more 'open', than other F/OSS software and competitive services will surpass Dell. As the rest of the tech industry mold themselves after Apple's iPhone, Dell service will be second choice if it is not integrated into mobile devices, despite how they try to sell more new laptop forms.

I feel bad for Tim. Sounds like he's a sharp guy to have been promoted in Apple. But sometimes you get promoted into a role that does not suite your talent, and Jobs realized the mistake and did what he thought best for his company. For the most part Jobs knows how to pick a good team. Dell has proven its only trick is copy and make cheaper. This is a typical Silly-con Valley saga - guy gets dumped by company A; guy starts new company; new company gets bought by company B; company B makes guy head of new project using software create by guy to battle A. Dell and the music industry have no love for Tim. They all just hate/envy Apple. As Redmond's crushing of Oracle and Sun already show, hating is no way to succeed. We've seen this before. Statistically, odds are against guy and company B.

If you read closely It was NEVER that Steve Jobs fired someone for reasons stated, it was what was CLAIMED

"According to a lawsuit later filed by Bucher, Jobs said: yadda yadda yadda"

IF there was ANY proof at all that such a thing was actually said, ANY PROOF at all, that would be a different matter.

Aug 15, 08 - 10:46 pm Comment from: BiZarRo BaLlmEr

the inevitable failure of this will make him manic depressive.

Aug 16, 08 - 01:29 am Comment from: HMCIV

I think it's an elaborate trap sprung on Mikey Dell. Steve-o and Tim Bucher fake his firing and the trial, only for Tim to later be plucked up by an unsuspecting Dell.

Very clever Apple. V-E-R-Y clever!

It's a free market; these folks are entitled to come up with whatever they decide to come up with. The masses will judge accordingly. As far as BUcher leaving APple, absent personal knowledge of what happened, or a close reading of all the court filings, depositions, etc., who can judge what went on there?

Amazing; Tim Bucher is going to gather a crowd of supporters and jump in front of a freight train, hoping for success. I wish him luck with this one.

Aug 17, 08 - 08:25 pm Comment from: Buster

So Bucher is going to spend Dell's money to try and kick Steve's ass cause Steve pissed him off. Dell already wasted cash buying Bucher's company now they are going to waste more?

Del deserves its drop down to the penny stock level.

idiots.