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Jul 16, 09 - 12:54 pm Comment from: Gordon Horne

This is a reasonable drop in Palm's stock. Palm made a big noise about native syncing of the Pre with iTunes and benefited with a nice stock bump. The recent iTunes update demonstrated Palm cannot keep this promise, so the stock loses some value it picked up on the promise.

If I build it, I get to say who comes.

(stop tittering)

(I said stop it!)

Jul 16, 09 - 12:59 pm Comment from: Buster

Palm is history...let them die off quick.

Cat and mouse game. I'm sure Palm is working now to find a way around the new iTunes block. None of this is foolproof, but you can be sure Apple will continue updates to block third parties from accessing iTunes.

On another note, if you can't use iTunes to get music to your Pre, what do you use?

Jul 16, 09 - 01:14 pm Comment from: Deus Ex Technica

I was floored by Palm's decision to enable and tout that capability in the first place. Seems like it would open them up to a class-action lawsuit by customers the minute Apple flicked the switch and shut them down.

If Palm tries again to invent a work around to defeat Apple's recent update, it would signal to me that they don't really have a long-term strategy for the Pre, and it is indeed "takeover bait" as MDN has strenuously argued.

If that's the case, I predict a Dell buyout of Palm.

Jul 16, 09 - 01:14 pm Comment from: Rob

This is what licensing is all about.
Palm should not look for ways to fool iTunes, they should ask for license and pay for access.

Jul 16, 09 - 01:18 pm Comment from: Kit-N

"On another note, if you can't use iTunes to get music to your Pre, what do you use?"

The Zune Marketplace!

I typed all of that with a straight face!

Jul 16, 09 - 01:19 pm Comment from: Gordon Horne

@Bizlaw,

You can use iTunes to get music to your Pre. Many third-party music players do. You can't sync your Pre with iTunes.

(Actually, I don't use the sync feature with my iPod. My music and audio book collection is so many times larger than my iPod capacity that I drag playlists suitable for the day's activities onto the iPod just like owners of third-party music players have to do.)

I'd respect what Palm are doing with the Pre if only they hadn't been cheap enough to use another company's software like this. Bad move, Palm.

Jul 16, 09 - 01:53 pm Comment from: Big Al

Gordon,

You can select which items to sync and which ones not to sync if you manage the sync yourself. It's really quite easy and much more efficient than drag and drop.

Glad to see Apple kick the stinking, lazy ass welfare queen Palm off iTunes. Palm, you lard asses, go figure out how to make your own music success, scabs.

Jul 16, 09 - 01:59 pm Comment from: qka

On another note, if you can't use iTunes to get music to your Pre, what do you use?

I'm all Apple myself, but a lot of sites today are touting doubleTwist for getting your music out of your iTunes library and on to a variety of other devices - phones, PSP, etc.

The definition of the XML files, etc. in the iTunes library is known. (Does Apple in fact publish the formats, I don't know. XML is a text file, so it is easy to examine.) So writing software that accesses the the iTunes library is legal. It's the use of the iTunes app that isn't, and that's where palm got in trouble.

Jul 16, 09 - 02:11 pm Comment from: qka

P.S.

I have no stake in doubleTwist. I just thought folks here would be interested. Many own non-Apple devices.

Maybe you just can't / don't want to use AT&T;)

Palm fell this a.m. on Nokia's results - all the handset guys were down on it. Palm is now up on the day; the iTunes de-sync is a non-event for the Pre.
Lots of idiots on this board - get out of your caves.

Jul 16, 09 - 02:18 pm Comment from: Scott Rose

iTunes not being able to natively sync to the Pre is sooo not a big deal for Palm Pre users.

Just like most other cell phones on the market that don't work with iTunes, Palm Pre users have a variety of options at their fingertips.

One option is "Missing Sync For Palm Pre", and another option is "Salling Media Sync" for Mac or Windows. There's many other options, too!

Anybody who thinks yesterday's iTunes 8.2.1 is a blow to the Palm Pre really doesn't know much about the technology industry or doesn't realize that almost no other cell phones can sync to iTunes natively, either.

Jul 16, 09 - 02:24 pm Comment from: ken1w

Come on... The drop in stock price was caused by the headline right above this one (and the overall prospects for the company).

"Palm insiders dump nearly 300,000 of beleaguered company’s shares... Two executives and a director have sold a total of about $4.6 million in stock in the past three weeks"

Anyone who actually bought a Pre did not make that decision based on it being able to Pre-tend to be an iPod.

Jul 16, 09 - 02:25 pm Comment from: madgunde

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!

How anyone could have confidence in a company who's only lifeline product relies on unsupported support from a major competitor's product.

Look Palm, you want the Pre to play with the big boys, then build your own solution or at least buy one, but trying to mooch off the success of your competitor for free makes you look really, really small time.

At some point it may make sense for Apple to open up iTunes a bit. It avoids Apple looking like a monopolist in this space and has the added benefit of increasing iTunes market share, since more and more people will use it to manage their music libraries.

The iPod is a great product, but it's time as a hot product is long past. All the action is in the smart phone/mobile device space. Apple doesn't need to worry about losing iPod sales, they're going to go down no matter what as people move on to bigger and better devices.

Barron's article on insider selling caused the stock drop? Barron's has suggested a short on Palm since $7 - nice advice if you were looking to lose alot of $. Insider selling by executives being asked to leave the company in favor of more qualified replacements is a better reason for the selling than anything else.

Good try, though - keep digging, fool. You'll get there.

Jul 16, 09 - 02:50 pm Comment from: Gordon Horne

"Anybody who thinks yesterday's iTunes 8.2.1 is a blow to the Palm Pre really doesn't know much about the technology industry or doesn't realize that almost no other cell phones can sync to iTunes natively, either."

No other cell phone manufacturer trumpeted native iTunes syncing as a major feature of their phone. Palm did with the Pre. Not the major feature, certainly, but a major feature. Palm doesn't get to crow about how wonderful it is that the Pre syncs natively with iTunes and then say it's no big deal when the feature breaks. Native syncing is either a big deal or it isn't. It isn't, but Palm are the ones who said it was. It was a stupid thing for them to say.

Jul 16, 09 - 03:06 pm Comment from: Scott Rose

No other cell phone manufacturer trumpeted native iTunes syncing as a major feature of their phone. Palm did with the Pre. Not the major feature, certainly, but a major feature.

That is true, actually. It was pretty darn stupid of Palm to trumpet that as a feature when they hadn't worked directly with Apple on that feature.

Although, in Palm's defense, it does say in TINY FINE PRINT on their website that compatibility with any future version of iTunes (after version 8.2) is not guaranteed. I can see this tiny claim on their website in a Google-cached version of their website, so it looks like they had this up BEFORE the 8.2.1 announcement.

In any case, stupid move on Palm's part.

But from a USER'S point of view, it's a different story: the Palm Pre users out there are not left in the dark... they still have a variety of ways of moving their iTunes music collections onto the Pre.

It seems that Apple isn't that different to Microsoft when it comes to protecting its monopoly.

Jul 16, 09 - 03:20 pm Comment from: Predrag

Exactly, Gordon Horne.

There are tons of MP3 players and music-playing cellphones that have either proprietary software, or some other music manager to move music back and forth. They all can easily use anything out there, since vast majority just show up on your Mac/PC as a removable drive, so any music management software works. You don't get song ratings, playback count, etc, but most other is fine.

However, as Gordon said, Palm made it a point that you can safely use iTunes for managing music on your Pre. They said you can buy music on iTunes and as long it is iTunes Plus (by now pretty much all of it is), you can put it on Pre. They casually warned about the video incompatibility (due to DRM), so they made an effort to make sure buyers know that iTunes works. I haven't seen the printed manuals that come with Pre and if they suggest using iTunes or not. The point is, it is likely that many Pre owners chose iTunes to manage their music, since probably most, if not all of them, already have iPods and have used iTunes extensively to manage their music. The ability to continue using iTunes would be a significant plus in justifying a Pre over an iPhone.

Tech-savvy people will quickly figure out how to use some other software. Ordinary people, who bought into the lure of using iTunes to buy your music and put it on Pre, will be lost. Luckily, for now, there aren't that many of them, so it won't generate all that much of a noise. But among the totality of Pre owners, it will be a meaningful number, for sure.

Jul 16, 09 - 03:26 pm Comment from: Predrag

John,

Apple cannot afford to support Palm's customers for free. Obviously, iTunes is Apple's product and if Pre user ends up having a problem with it, he will likely call Apple for support. The call immediately wastes Apple's time and money (it's a toll-free call, so APple is paying for it as soon as the user calls, and during the time it takes for the Apple support person to figure out that the problem is caused by Pre, Apple's paying for that person's time on the phone). So, Apple will surely deny support for Pre users, but even then, it has already spent money on that support call.

Pre hasn't yet sold its first million devices yet, but even if it is a modest failure, it will still sell a million or two. If iTunes functionality continued to work, chances were high that Pre users would end up calling Apple support for any kind of problem with the software or the store. Until Palm licenses iTunes for use with the Pre (and thus pays Apple for support), Apple really MUST cut Pre off at every opportunity.

Absolutely nothing microsoftian about that.

"Salling Media Sync 1.1 adds Pre capabilities"

http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/07/16/salling.media.sync.11/

Apple is under no obligation to support a direct competitor. And doesn't need to, if third parties can offer solutions as illustrated above. (If Apple were being "Microsoftian", as the mindless equivalentists believe, third parties would be frozen out as well.)

Jul 16, 09 - 03:45 pm Comment from: Deus Ex Technica

@John

"It seems that Apple isn't that different to Microsoft when it comes to protecting its monopoly".

If you define "monopoly" as having control over your own product, then you are correct. But then it could be argued that every company then has a "monopoly" over it's own product.

Apple has done nothing more than create a set of products and services that work well together and are compelling to the marketplace. And for the most part, they've done it better than their competitors. As such, they are enjoying the success that comes with hard work, innovation, and risk.

Palm has every right to go out and create their own fantastic ecosystem for the Pre. Why should Apple allow them to latch on to iTunes without a licensing agreement?

If Apple were truly a monopoly, they'd be using their dominance in the marketplace to FORCE PALM TO USE iTUNES. In fact, the opposite is happening, which negates your argument.

Jul 16, 09 - 04:32 pm Comment from: Hm...

If Apple wanted to, they could trivially encode the iPod recognizer code. Then the DMCA (another bad law like the "Patriot Act") prohibits any third party from connecting. Lexmark successfully used this (sleazy) method to block after-market toner cartridge suppliers from their laser printers.

Jul 16, 09 - 05:30 pm Comment from: silverhawk

Palm after hours trading

After Hours: 14.99‎ -0.07‎ (-0.46%‎) Jul 16 5:55pm ET